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Old 02-01-2013, 11:00 AM  
Fat Elvis Fat Elvis is offline
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Hypothetical: Chip Kelly LOVES Geno Smith

Let's say that Chip Kelly really loves Geno Smith and feels that he is the one QB in this draft who could run his offense. The Chiefs aren't as sold on Geno as some of the members of this board--in fact, they have Geno and Tyler Wilson graded fairly close together.

If the Eagles are willing to trade their #4 pick, their second this year and their first next year for our #1 pick, do you pull the trigger and pick up Wilson with the #4?

Granted, Wilson being there at 4 is not a guarantee, but it is highly likely. Maybe that is why they bring in Alex Smith, insurance.

Personally, I would do it.

I think with some proper coaching from the QB Whisperer, Wilson could be a top notch QB (note: I am a Geno fan).

We have so many holes that could be filled with those two other picks (a high 2nd rounder, and lets face it; the Eagles will suck next year too so that pick should be a high first).

If Wilson can be coached to be a franchise QB, would you trade Geno for him and two other probable starters?
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Old 02-01-2013, 12:46 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by saphojunkie View Post
You might not be wrong to turn down the trade, but you absolutely have to have a more rational explanation than this.
Okay. How's this for rational?

It's settling. I don't care how small the distance between the QBs is that Andy Reid perceives. Andy Reid needs to take his preferred QB. The QB he wants the most in this entire draft. If that's Wilson, he needs to take Wilson. If that's Barkley, he needs to take Barkley.

There was a pretty small difference between Andrew Luck and RGIII. Luck was a smidge higher on most boards. Let's say the Colts viewed the QB race last year that way, but the Rams (before they traded away the pick) REALLY wanted Luck, and were going to cut Bradford loose either by trade or something else. Should the Colts have accepted a trade down of one spot if they got that kind of deal from St. Louis?

Notice that I'm completely ignoring the issue of value and getting bang for one's draft buck. This is all about the bullshit of accepting 2nd best at the most important position for something like DRAFT PICKS. Every team gets 7 draft picks every year. A team is NEVER going to run out of draft picks. Guess what you can run out of though? Good QBs.

It's the exact same issue as the people who now say, "I'd trade entire DRAFTS if we could have a sure-fire franchise QB in KC for 10 years". Here we've been given our pick of the best QB in an entire draft. He has the potential to be that 10 year franchise QB. And what do we do? Pass on him for an extra CB and DL? Neither of which are guaranteed to be good players.

Never accept 2nd best when it comes to QBs for ****ing draft picks. NEVER EVER.
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Old 02-01-2013, 12:47 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saphojunkie View Post
What Nirvana said. The answer was so simple.
It's happened how many times? Once?

And that was only because the Chargers were going to draft Manning whether he wanted to play there or not.
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Old 02-01-2013, 12:50 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SNR View Post
Okay. How's this for rational?

It's settling. I don't care how small the distance between the QBs is that Andy Reid perceives. Andy Reid needs to take his preferred QB. The QB he wants the most in this entire draft. If that's Wilson, he needs to take Wilson. If that's Barkley, he needs to take Barkley.

There was a pretty small difference between Andrew Luck and RGIII. Luck was a smidge higher on most boards. Let's say the Colts viewed the QB race last year that way, but the Rams (before they traded away the pick) REALLY wanted Luck, and were going to cut Bradford loose either by trade or something else. Should the Colts have accepted a trade down of one spot if they got that kind of deal from St. Louis?

Notice that I'm completely ignoring the issue of value and getting bang for one's draft buck. This is all about the bullshit of accepting 2nd best at the most important position for something like DRAFT PICKS. Every team gets 7 draft picks every year. A team is NEVER going to run out of draft picks. Guess what you can run out of though? Good QBs.

It's the exact same issue as the people who now say, "I'd trade entire DRAFTS if we could have a sure-fire franchise QB in KC for 10 years". Here we've been given our pick of the best QB in an entire draft. He has the potential to be that 10 year franchise QB. And what do we do? Pass on him for an extra CB and DL? Neither of which are guaranteed to be good players.

Never accept 2nd best when it comes to QBs for ****ing draft picks. NEVER EVER.
yes, but in this HYPOTHETICAL situation, the chiefs do not believe (however erroneously) that Geno was the #1 guy.

I have tried to repeat that in most of my responses to avoid the all-out "Geno or Player X" argument.

For the ****ing record:

I want Geno Smith.

Geno Smith is the most impactful player in this draft.
Geno Smith is the #1 QB in this draft.
Geno Smith can stay with my mom while he looks for a house in Kansas City.
Geno Smith 4 eva.

Now, can we get back to this wonderful, time-wasting, why-the-****-isn't-it-five o'clock-yet hypothetical where the Chiefs get a franchise QB and five top 35 picks over the next two drafts?
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Old 02-01-2013, 12:52 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Fat Elvis View Post
Based on what?
NFL history.
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Old 02-01-2013, 12:53 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saphojunkie View Post
yes, but in this HYPOTHETICAL situation, the chiefs do not believe (however erroneously) that Geno was the #1 guy.

I have tried to repeat that in most of my responses to avoid the all-out "Geno or Player X" argument.

For the ****ing record:

I want Geno Smith.

Geno Smith is the most impactful player in this draft.
Geno Smith is the #1 QB in this draft.
Geno Smith can stay with my mom while he looks for a house in Kansas City.
Geno Smith 4 eva.

Now, can we get back to this wonderful, time-wasting, why-the-****-isn't-it-five o'clock-yet hypothetical where the Chiefs get a franchise QB and five top 35 picks over the next two drafts?

I don't think people get this. I, too, am a Geno fan. Early adopter/bandwagoner.
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Old 02-01-2013, 12:54 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Fat Elvis View Post
I think that is part of the problem: If I recall correctly, Clark has explicitly stated that there isn't a franchise QB in this draft.
You recall incorrectly.

He never explicitly stated anything remotely like that.

He stated that Dorsey and Reid hadn't told him that there was a QB worth the #1 pick in the draft. When asked if he thought they could tell him that later he said he didn't THINK that would happen.

That was in a radio interview MINUTES after Dorsey was hired, so the comment isn't worth a hill of beans.
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Old 02-01-2013, 12:55 PM   #52
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Trading out would be the worst possible move this franchise could make. They need to make a statement pick, "this is a new era".

Which, being the franchise that they are, means they'll sign Alex Smith, trade down, and draft a defensive end.
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Old 02-01-2013, 12:55 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Saul Good View Post
I see Barkley, Bray, Glennon, and Wilson as similar value. If I'm willing to pass on Geno, I'm not going to think of missing out one any of the also-rans as a deal breaker.
The fact that you would mention Glennon and Bray in the same breath as Barkley and Wilson says quite a bit.

They're not even REMOTELY in the same class.
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Old 02-01-2013, 12:56 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by saphojunkie View Post
I'm no higher on Wilson than I am Barkley. To me, they are a distant 2A and 2B behind Geno.

If the Chiefs took Barkley, I would be in no way more disappointed than if they took Wilson.

If they aren't taking Geno, then my emotions go way down.

Barkley + #34, #36, and two firsts next year

Wilson + #34, #36, and two firsts next year.

To me, they're the same.
So address the possibility that they're BOTH gone.

Glennon + #34, #36, and two firsts next year.?

NO ****ING WAY.
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Old 02-01-2013, 12:56 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by htismaqe View Post
NFL history.
Like last year? Going into the season Luck was head and shoulders above everyone else, but by the time the draft rolled around many felt that it was a toss up between him and RG3.
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Old 02-01-2013, 12:57 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by saphojunkie View Post
What Nirvana said. The answer was so simple.
You have a better chance of getting hit by falling space debris than this happening.

The reason the Manning/Rivers trade went down is because the Chargers drafted Manning and he REFUSED TO PLAY THERE. They didn't WANT to trade him.
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Old 02-01-2013, 12:58 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saphojunkie View Post
yes, but in this HYPOTHETICAL situation, the chiefs do not believe (however erroneously) that Geno was the #1 guy.
I already addressed this in my answer:

Quote:
Andy Reid needs to take his preferred QB. The QB he wants the most in this entire draft. If that's Wilson, he needs to take Wilson. If that's Barkley, he needs to take Barkley.
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Old 02-01-2013, 12:58 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Fat Elvis View Post
Like last year? Going into the season Luck was head and shoulders above everyone else, but by the time the draft rolled around many felt that it was a toss up between him and RG3.


Nobody with any brains thought it was a toss up. NOBODY.

The stuff coming from the Colts was contract posturing, they were NEVER going to pass on Luck.

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Old 02-01-2013, 01:00 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by htismaqe View Post
You recall incorrectly.

He never explicitly stated anything remotely like that.

He stated that Dorsey and Reid hadn't told him that there was a QB worth the #1 pick in the draft. When asked if he thought they could tell him that later he said he didn't THINK that would happen.

That was in a radio interview MINUTES after Dorsey was hired, so the comment isn't worth a hill of beans.
Here is my transcription of what was said:

Quote:
KEVIN KEITZMAN : Are you hoping, uh, privately, and publicly now, say it, that John and his staff come to you - report to you in six weeks, eight weeks, and say "You know what? We didn't think that there was a great quarterback in this draft, but there is."

CLARK HUNT: Heh.

KK: And we know who it is.

HUNT: heh

KK: Are you privately rooting for that?

HUNT: Well...I know that they've gotta find a solution at quarterback. And they're gonna start with the guys on the roster, uh, free will be an option and the draft will be an option. And i wouldn't be surprised to see us do some mix of all three, because andy's gonna want to take a number of guys and evaluate them. I'm not expecting that to happen... but you never know. Also there's a possibility that we could trade that first pick. That...that's something that'll be in play when we get to the draft.

KK: But ideally you'd love to get a report like that, wouldn't you? That "Oh, my... Now that we're digging, there's a guy, and he's CLEARLY worth the number one pick, and he is the man, and he's gonna be a franchise player. That would be the BEST thing you could ever hear, wouldn't it?

HUNT: Uh...(laughing) well...wouldn't mind....wouldn't mind hearing that, but I know I'm not gonna hear it.

KK: You KNOW these quarterbacks aren't that good?

HUNT: Well, I don't know that, but-

KK: THEY know that.

HUNT: Um-

KK: (pressing) They TELL you that?

HUNT: They haven't done enough work were they can definiliv... definitively tell me that. That work will take place in the next month and we'll have those discussions. We better leave it at that.

KK: The popular sentiment out there that there is not a great quarterback here - you're of the belief right now that's probably true.

HUNT: I...I think so, yeah.

KK: That's the worst thing I've heard all day.
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Old 02-01-2013, 01:01 PM   #60
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Anything that takes the certainty that I can draft any Qb I want before any one else gets a chance, to me at this point, isn't worth it.


Hypothetically, what if you trade down and get all those picks but miss your QB and those other picks bust?
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