Home Mail MemberMap Chat (0) Wallpapers
Go Back   ChiefsPlanet > The Lounge

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-28-2012, 02:00 PM  
OnTheWarpath58 OnTheWarpath58 is offline
37 FOREVER
 
OnTheWarpath58's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Casino cash: $9080
An addition to the Pioli resume

I was bored, thought I'd run some numbers - hadn't done any Chiefs-related homework in a while.

Anywho, discussion in another thread got me to thinking about the "talent level" on this team. People seem to be getting back in the habit of blaming specifically the QB and coaching, while claiming that this roster, and those before it are loaded with talent.

For a team that supposedly has talent, all they've done is beat up on the weak sisters of the poor over the last 4 years of the Pioli Nightmare.

23 wins in 4 years.

Those 23 wins came against teams with a collective 152-214 record and a .415 winning percentage. You can thank Green Bay dropping a metric ****ton of passes back in December of 2011 - take them out of the equation, and you're looking at a .375 winning percentage.

1 win in 4 years against a 10-win or better team.

3 wins in 4 years against a 9-win or better team.

20 wins against 8-8 teams or worse - 11 of those wins against teams with 6 wins or less.

So the "Executive of the Decade" was responsible for 5.75 wins per year, and we should consider ourselves lucky we "earned" that many.

In this era of parity in the NFL, a team with this much "talent" would be winning more than 5.75 games per year. Even without a QB. Even without a QB and HC.

Folks say that Mark Sanchez is a POS, and that we have more talent than the Jets. The same Jets that have won 34 games in the last 4 years. 11 more than the Chiefs.

Buffalo has shit for talent, plays in a brutal division, and has 2 fewer wins over the same time period.

Cleveland is hot garbage, and they've won 4 fewer games over the past 4 years. 1 game a year difference.

Jacksonville has 1 fewer win.

Miami has 4 MORE wins.

Oakland has 2 MORE wins.


The overwhelming majority of this board would claim that we have more "talent" than every one of the above teams.

The overwhelming majority of this board would claim that our QB play has been at least as good as the above teams, and in most cases, better.

The overwhelming majority of this board would claim that our coaching has been at least as good as the above teams, and in most cases, better.


The overwhelming majority of this board would be dead wrong on one of those three assessments. One of these things is not like the other.

Folks, it's time to wake up and realize that QB and HC are just part of the problem.

I see a lot of bad teams with bad QB's and bad HC's that have won as much or more than we have.

Sadly, the bottom line is that there isn't nearly as much "talent" on this roster that you think there is - and that we're a lot closer to the Cleveland's, Buffalo's and Jacksonville's of the NFL than you want to admit.
Posts: 50,062
OnTheWarpath58 is obviously part of the inner Circle.OnTheWarpath58 is obviously part of the inner Circle.OnTheWarpath58 is obviously part of the inner Circle.OnTheWarpath58 is obviously part of the inner Circle.OnTheWarpath58 is obviously part of the inner Circle.OnTheWarpath58 is obviously part of the inner Circle.OnTheWarpath58 is obviously part of the inner Circle.OnTheWarpath58 is obviously part of the inner Circle.OnTheWarpath58 is obviously part of the inner Circle.OnTheWarpath58 is obviously part of the inner Circle.OnTheWarpath58 is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2012, 05:22 PM   #106
JASONSAUTO JASONSAUTO is offline
Thigpen for HOF
 

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: mid missouri
Casino cash: $16321
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 View Post
You don't get to - or win - a Super Bowl with just a QB.

The problem is that this fanbase automatically undervalues players on other teams, while overvaluing our players.

You need a complete team - including a QB.

And even then, sometimes it's not enough.

Could Geno Smith come in next year and lead us to 8 or 9 wins?

Maybe.

But unless the new GM starts hitting on some draft picks and making some smart FA signings, 8-9 wins and the occasional one-and-done in the playoffs is the ceiling.
the opposite could be said about quite a few here too
Posts: 29,907
JASONSAUTO is obviously part of the inner Circle.JASONSAUTO is obviously part of the inner Circle.JASONSAUTO is obviously part of the inner Circle.JASONSAUTO is obviously part of the inner Circle.JASONSAUTO is obviously part of the inner Circle.JASONSAUTO is obviously part of the inner Circle.JASONSAUTO is obviously part of the inner Circle.JASONSAUTO is obviously part of the inner Circle.JASONSAUTO is obviously part of the inner Circle.JASONSAUTO is obviously part of the inner Circle.JASONSAUTO is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2012, 05:23 PM   #107
BigMeatballDave BigMeatballDave is online now
That's a cancerous meatball!
 
BigMeatballDave's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2000
Casino cash: $16855
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 View Post
And it will be on the next guy as well.

As has been pointed out several times, the core of this team hasn't changed in four years - it's just gotten older.

We have all these easy fixes, yet the Executive of the Decade wasn't able to fix anything in four years.

A QB is part of the problem, but far from the entire problem.
Preaching to the choir.
Posts: 52,492
BigMeatballDave has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.BigMeatballDave has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.BigMeatballDave has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.BigMeatballDave has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.BigMeatballDave has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.BigMeatballDave has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.BigMeatballDave has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.BigMeatballDave has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.BigMeatballDave has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.BigMeatballDave has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.BigMeatballDave has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2012, 05:28 PM   #108
-King- -King- is offline
▓▓▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▓▓
 
-King-'s Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2009
Casino cash: $18026
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 View Post
And it will be on the next guy as well.

As has been pointed out several times, the core of this team hasn't changed in four years - it's just gotten older.

We have all these easy fixes, yet the Executive of the Decade wasn't able to fix anything in four years.

A QB is part of the problem, but far from the entire problem.
QB is at least 75% of the problem.

You guys preached for years about the difference a franchise QB could make and now that we're on the verge of getting one, you say that a QB won't make that big of a difference.
__________________
43-8
Posts: 40,760
-King- is obviously part of the inner Circle.-King- is obviously part of the inner Circle.-King- is obviously part of the inner Circle.-King- is obviously part of the inner Circle.-King- is obviously part of the inner Circle.-King- is obviously part of the inner Circle.-King- is obviously part of the inner Circle.-King- is obviously part of the inner Circle.-King- is obviously part of the inner Circle.-King- is obviously part of the inner Circle.-King- is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2012, 05:28 PM   #109
-King- -King- is offline
▓▓▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▓▓
 
-King-'s Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2009
Casino cash: $18026
Quote:
Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO View Post
the opposite could be said about quite a few here too
THIS.
__________________
43-8
Posts: 40,760
-King- is obviously part of the inner Circle.-King- is obviously part of the inner Circle.-King- is obviously part of the inner Circle.-King- is obviously part of the inner Circle.-King- is obviously part of the inner Circle.-King- is obviously part of the inner Circle.-King- is obviously part of the inner Circle.-King- is obviously part of the inner Circle.-King- is obviously part of the inner Circle.-King- is obviously part of the inner Circle.-King- is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2012, 05:35 PM   #110
SNR SNR is online now
POE = MOTHER****ING COELACANTH
 
SNR's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Where the hell is SNR
Casino cash: $19820
Quote:
Originally Posted by keg in kc View Post
A league average team with a franchise QB can compete for a title. A league average team with Matt Cassel and Brady Quinn coached by Romeo Crennel can compete for a #1 pick.
Pretty much.

Don't really give a shit about how much or how little talent there is on the team.

Get a QB, THEN go bitch about how Kendrick Lewis isn't good enough.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaper16 View Post
I would read an entire blog of SNR breaking down athletes' musical capabilities like draft scouting reports.
Posts: 57,572
SNR is obviously part of the inner Circle.SNR is obviously part of the inner Circle.SNR is obviously part of the inner Circle.SNR is obviously part of the inner Circle.SNR is obviously part of the inner Circle.SNR is obviously part of the inner Circle.SNR is obviously part of the inner Circle.SNR is obviously part of the inner Circle.SNR is obviously part of the inner Circle.SNR is obviously part of the inner Circle.SNR is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2012, 05:36 PM   #111
SNR SNR is online now
POE = MOTHER****ING COELACANTH
 
SNR's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Where the hell is SNR
Casino cash: $19820
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 View Post
And it will be on the next guy as well.

As has been pointed out several times, the core of this team hasn't changed in four years - it's just gotten older.

We have all these easy fixes, yet the Executive of the Decade wasn't able to fix anything in four years.

A QB is part of the problem, but far from the entire problem.
It's more than 20% of the problem. Or 30%. Or 50%.

It's around 70% of the problem I would say if you don't have a franchise QB in this era of the NFL. That would not have been the case in the 90s. It's the case now, however.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaper16 View Post
I would read an entire blog of SNR breaking down athletes' musical capabilities like draft scouting reports.
Posts: 57,572
SNR is obviously part of the inner Circle.SNR is obviously part of the inner Circle.SNR is obviously part of the inner Circle.SNR is obviously part of the inner Circle.SNR is obviously part of the inner Circle.SNR is obviously part of the inner Circle.SNR is obviously part of the inner Circle.SNR is obviously part of the inner Circle.SNR is obviously part of the inner Circle.SNR is obviously part of the inner Circle.SNR is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2012, 05:37 PM   #112
chiefzilla1501 chiefzilla1501 is online now
Gonzo = Sexy Bitch
 

Join Date: Aug 2008
Casino cash: $13356
Our running game is exceptional and our pass protection proved that behind Orton, they are fine. Our passing game improves behind a new QB and we need one more passing target (at least). And we need an offensive coordinator with an imagination.

Our defense, our pass rushers are outstanding, are ILBs are good enough, and Poe should hopefully continue to improve. Our secondary needs 1 or 2 pieces -- doesn't need to be pro bowlers, but improvements are necessary. Our DEs need to improve, but that's not a critical position.

So essentially you're talking about a franchise QB, #2 receiver, a coaching overhaul, 1 or 2 pieces in the secondary, and hopeful improvements on DE (but not going to kill us if not. A good front office can easily accomplish that in one offseason, given our draft position and cap space. Particularly since a franchise QB and coaching overhaul are almost certainties.
Posts: 21,110
chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2012, 05:38 PM   #113
JASONSAUTO JASONSAUTO is offline
Thigpen for HOF
 

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: mid missouri
Casino cash: $16321
Quote:
Originally Posted by -King- View Post
QB is at least 75% of the problem.

You guys preached for years about the difference a franchise QB could make and now that we're on the verge of getting one, you say that a QB won't make that big of a difference.
THIS.
funny how things change
Posted via Mobile Device
Posts: 29,907
JASONSAUTO is obviously part of the inner Circle.JASONSAUTO is obviously part of the inner Circle.JASONSAUTO is obviously part of the inner Circle.JASONSAUTO is obviously part of the inner Circle.JASONSAUTO is obviously part of the inner Circle.JASONSAUTO is obviously part of the inner Circle.JASONSAUTO is obviously part of the inner Circle.JASONSAUTO is obviously part of the inner Circle.JASONSAUTO is obviously part of the inner Circle.JASONSAUTO is obviously part of the inner Circle.JASONSAUTO is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2012, 05:38 PM   #114
Count Alex's Wins Count Alex's Wins is online now
ALEX. HOW CAN THIS BE.
 
Count Alex's Wins's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2002
Casino cash: $32789
Quote:
Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO View Post
the opposite could be said about quite a few here too
Sorry, but that's BS.

Do you know how much crap homers on this site have spewed about things like:


Jon Baldwin vs Demaryius Thomas

Tony Moeaki vs ANY tight end drafted in recent memory.

Dexter McCluster vs Players Who Actually Make Plays

Brady Quinn vs Legit NFL QBs

Tyson Jackson vs Any Asshole With A Helmet

Stanford Routt vs Corners Who Aren't Burn Victims



There is precious little talent on this roster to "undervalue."
__________________
Posts: 171,016
Count Alex's Wins is obviously part of the inner Circle.Count Alex's Wins is obviously part of the inner Circle.Count Alex's Wins is obviously part of the inner Circle.Count Alex's Wins is obviously part of the inner Circle.Count Alex's Wins is obviously part of the inner Circle.Count Alex's Wins is obviously part of the inner Circle.Count Alex's Wins is obviously part of the inner Circle.Count Alex's Wins is obviously part of the inner Circle.Count Alex's Wins is obviously part of the inner Circle.Count Alex's Wins is obviously part of the inner Circle.Count Alex's Wins is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2012, 05:40 PM   #115
JASONSAUTO JASONSAUTO is offline
Thigpen for HOF
 

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: mid missouri
Casino cash: $16321
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 View Post
We have easy fixes, yet didn't fix anything in FOUR YEARS.
True on both counts.

Except the o line as long as we keep Albert.

It's all on the fail that is Pioli
Posted via Mobile Device
Posts: 29,907
JASONSAUTO is obviously part of the inner Circle.JASONSAUTO is obviously part of the inner Circle.JASONSAUTO is obviously part of the inner Circle.JASONSAUTO is obviously part of the inner Circle.JASONSAUTO is obviously part of the inner Circle.JASONSAUTO is obviously part of the inner Circle.JASONSAUTO is obviously part of the inner Circle.JASONSAUTO is obviously part of the inner Circle.JASONSAUTO is obviously part of the inner Circle.JASONSAUTO is obviously part of the inner Circle.JASONSAUTO is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2012, 05:41 PM   #116
JASONSAUTO JASONSAUTO is offline
Thigpen for HOF
 

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: mid missouri
Casino cash: $16321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cassel's Reckoning View Post
Sorry, but that's BS.

Do you know how much crap homers on this site have spewed about things like:


Jon Baldwin vs Demaryius Thomas

Tony Moeaki vs ANY tight end drafted in recent memory.

Dexter McCluster vs Players Who Actually Make Plays

Brady Quinn vs Legit NFL QBs

Tyson Jackson vs Any Asshole With A Helmet

Stanford Routt vs Corners Who Aren't Burn Victims



There is precious little talent on this roster to "undervalue."
come on man. Seriously?

It goes both ways. Look around
Posted via Mobile Device
Posts: 29,907
JASONSAUTO is obviously part of the inner Circle.JASONSAUTO is obviously part of the inner Circle.JASONSAUTO is obviously part of the inner Circle.JASONSAUTO is obviously part of the inner Circle.JASONSAUTO is obviously part of the inner Circle.JASONSAUTO is obviously part of the inner Circle.JASONSAUTO is obviously part of the inner Circle.JASONSAUTO is obviously part of the inner Circle.JASONSAUTO is obviously part of the inner Circle.JASONSAUTO is obviously part of the inner Circle.JASONSAUTO is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2012, 05:42 PM   #117
Brock Brock is offline
Do it.
 
Brock's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Larryville
Casino cash: $5005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cassel's Reckoning View Post
Sorry, but that's BS.

Do you know how much crap homers on this site have spewed about things like:


Jon Baldwin vs Demaryius Thomas

Tony Moeaki vs ANY tight end drafted in recent memory.

Dexter McCluster vs Players Who Actually Make Plays

Brady Quinn vs Legit NFL QBs

Tyson Jackson vs Any Asshole With A Helmet

Stanford Routt vs Corners Who Aren't Burn Victims



There is precious little talent on this roster to "undervalue."
Very little, tbh. That doesnt mean a qb wont make a huge difference.
Posts: 42,714
Brock is obviously part of the inner Circle.Brock is obviously part of the inner Circle.Brock is obviously part of the inner Circle.Brock is obviously part of the inner Circle.Brock is obviously part of the inner Circle.Brock is obviously part of the inner Circle.Brock is obviously part of the inner Circle.Brock is obviously part of the inner Circle.Brock is obviously part of the inner Circle.Brock is obviously part of the inner Circle.Brock is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2012, 05:43 PM   #118
Count Alex's Wins Count Alex's Wins is online now
ALEX. HOW CAN THIS BE.
 
Count Alex's Wins's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2002
Casino cash: $32789
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post

So essentially you're talking about a franchise QB, #2 receiver, a coaching overhaul, 1 or 2 pieces in the secondary, and hopeful improvements on DE (but not going to kill us if not.
That's a huge ****ing haul, dude.

We need 6 or 7 new starters.

QB
WR
LDE
RDE
ILB
CB
S

And we need massive improvement from current starters at:

LG
NT
TE

That's not an easy fix.

We need two offseasons, IMO, before we talk about serious playoff contention.

Next season, if Geno is drafted and plays at a solid level I think we can go 8-8 or so. No better.

The roster needs work.
__________________
Posts: 171,016
Count Alex's Wins is obviously part of the inner Circle.Count Alex's Wins is obviously part of the inner Circle.Count Alex's Wins is obviously part of the inner Circle.Count Alex's Wins is obviously part of the inner Circle.Count Alex's Wins is obviously part of the inner Circle.Count Alex's Wins is obviously part of the inner Circle.Count Alex's Wins is obviously part of the inner Circle.Count Alex's Wins is obviously part of the inner Circle.Count Alex's Wins is obviously part of the inner Circle.Count Alex's Wins is obviously part of the inner Circle.Count Alex's Wins is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2012, 05:44 PM   #119
Count Alex's Wins Count Alex's Wins is online now
ALEX. HOW CAN THIS BE.
 
Count Alex's Wins's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2002
Casino cash: $32789
Quote:
Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO View Post
come on man. Seriously?

It goes both ways. Look around
Posted via Mobile Device
Examples of undervalued players? Lay them on me.
__________________
Posts: 171,016
Count Alex's Wins is obviously part of the inner Circle.Count Alex's Wins is obviously part of the inner Circle.Count Alex's Wins is obviously part of the inner Circle.Count Alex's Wins is obviously part of the inner Circle.Count Alex's Wins is obviously part of the inner Circle.Count Alex's Wins is obviously part of the inner Circle.Count Alex's Wins is obviously part of the inner Circle.Count Alex's Wins is obviously part of the inner Circle.Count Alex's Wins is obviously part of the inner Circle.Count Alex's Wins is obviously part of the inner Circle.Count Alex's Wins is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2012, 05:45 PM   #120
chiefzilla1501 chiefzilla1501 is online now
Gonzo = Sexy Bitch
 

Join Date: Aug 2008
Casino cash: $13356
Quote:
Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO View Post
True on both counts.

Except the o line as long as we keep Albert.

It's all on the fail that is Pioli
Posted via Mobile Device
To Pioli's credit, he took a roster full of major liabilities at starting positions to a roster that's rounded out with "good enough" guys. He did a pretty good job of building a team around supporting cast members. So he deserves credit for that.

The problem is that good GMs build around playmakers at core positions and Pioli decided to lay up every chance he got. That's ridiculous for a GM paid the way he is to not do that for 4 years. So the good news is, the foundation is set -- good support players, great cap space. We just need a GM now who can put together a few great drafts and make some quality free agency moves. Not as far off as people think. We're in a much better situation than a lot of new GMs walk into.
Posts: 21,110
chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.
  Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:23 PM.


This is a test for a client's site.
A new website that shows member-created construction site listings that need fill or have excess fill. Dirt Monkey @ https://DirtMonkey.net
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.