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Old 11-13-2012, 09:54 PM  
Direckshun Direckshun is online now
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November 29: The UN will vote to recognize Palestine as a "state."

Currently, Palestine is a non-member observer entity in the UN.

The Palestinians have pressed forth to introduce a measure to upgrade them in the UN's eyes to a non-member observer state.

While being upgraded from non-member observer entity to non-member observer state doesn't sound like much, it does provide Palestine an opportunity to actually contribute and perform within the UN.

Most damning, of course, is that it would tell Israel and the United States that their treatment of Palestine is tantamount to suppression of what should be a legitimate, free country. An act bordering on apartheid, which the ICC (run by the UN, which could soon include Palestine) as "inhuman acts committed for the purpose of establishing and maintaining domination by one racial group of persons over any other racial group of persons and systematically oppressing them." I don't regard that as a possibility.

But essentially, this has the ability to be a game changer in favor of two-state negotiations in favor of the Palestinian people, as opposed to the Likud/GOP alliance, which does not want any such two-state solution. All the facts on the ground right now favor Israel, as they expand their land, take more of the Palestinian land, and pretend with each passing year that the '67 borders with agreed-upon land swaps is some crime against Israel's humanity.

The only real arrow in Palestine's quiver is international opinion. And this particular vote in the UN cannot be unilaterally shot down by the United States, so it is sure to be voted on, and sure to be passed by roughly 75% of the UN.

As such, the United States and Israel are, understandably, freaking the **** out. The US is threatening to withdraw funding for much of the UN. Israel is threatening to discard the Oslo Accord, which allowed Palestine self-governance. This could potentially mean apartheid in everything but name.

So things are going to get really, really fascinating.

I ultimately think that Israel and the US' bark is worse than their bite. Obama prides himself on effective diplomacy which cannot happen if he's going to war with the UN. Israel's Netanyahu is far less concerned with international opinion, but doesn't want Israel to end up on the wrong side of the distinction between internationally frowned-upon to internationally despised. Though he may be heading that way anyway.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...rver-state-bid

Palestinians Defy Obama With UN ‘Observer State’ Bid
By Flavia Krause-Jackson
on November 08, 2012

Palestinians defied newly re-elected U.S. President Barack Obama by pushing ahead with a second statehood bid at the United Nations that will raise their profile at the world body and highlight the stagnation of the Mideast peace process.

The Palestinian Authority yesterday circulated a resolution to put the Palestine Liberation Organization on a par with the Holy See, according to a draft that will be put to a vote in the UN’s 193-member General Assembly, where the initiative has enough support to pass and the U.S. lacks veto power.

The latest steps by the Palestinians present Obama with his first foreign-policy challenge three days after he won a second term. A year ago, the Palestinians abandoned an attempt to be recognized as a full member state through the Security Council after Obama indicated the U.S. would use its veto there.

The PLO, which currently is an observer “entity,” is seeking a nonmember “observer state status,” according to the draft obtained by Bloomberg News.

By resurrecting the statehood issue in the General Assembly, the Palestinian leadership is trying to force the White House to pay attention to a moribund Palestinian-Israeli peace process that has dropped off the list of foreign-policy priorities for Obama.

In doing so, Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas is jeopardizing relations with Obama, as well as about $500 million in U.S. economic and security aid that members of Congress have threatened to cut if Palestinians proceed at the UN.

Issue Fades

The Palestinians have seen their cause fall into relative obscurity internationally since formal peace talks with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s government were frozen two years ago.

Peace talks stumbled over the issue of Jewish settlements in the West Bank, which Israel captured from Jordan in the 1967 Six-Day War. Abbas said he wouldn’t return to negotiations unless Israel froze all settlement construction in the West Bank and east Jerusalem. Netanyahu has refused to renew a 10-month freeze on construction that expired in 2010.

Abbas will present the resolution in person in New York, according to a UN official speaking on condition of anonymity. A vote is expected to take place by the end of the month, the official said.

Still, the move isn’t without risks.

When the Palestinian Authority was accepted last year into the UN cultural agency UNESCO, best known for its designation of “world heritage” sites, the U.S. response was to cut off funding that provides almost a quarter of the agency’s budget.

The U.S. has said that American law would require similar cutoffs for any UN agency that grants the Palestinians the same status as member states.

International Criminal Court

The upgrade may open the door for Palestinians to join other UN agencies, including the International Criminal Court, where they could ask for Israel to be tried for war crimes.

“Israel’s main worry is the ICC,” Palestinian chief negotiator Saeb Erakat said in an Oct. 24 interview. “They don’t want me to have a sword on their neck.”

The initiative could also jeopardize international aid that accounts for about 14 percent of the Palestinians’ gross domestic product and invite retaliatory measures from Israel.

As for the U.S., the administration’s position hasn’t wavered. The U.S. ambassador to the UN, Susan Rice, has said repeatedly that “unilateral actions,” such as the upgrade of the Palestinians’ UN status, would only derail efforts to restart direct peace talks between Israel and the Palestinians.
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Old 11-19-2012, 03:44 PM   #241
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Originally Posted by Nafman87 View Post
Around 350,000
how many of those live in settlements?

and what is your view of continuing expansion of settlements?
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Old 11-19-2012, 03:46 PM   #242
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Originally Posted by Nafman87 View Post
Around 350,000
Okay, but including East Jerusalem, it's about half a million, is my understanding. And importantly, that's an expansion of, say, 2005, right?
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Old 11-19-2012, 03:57 PM   #243
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Well, anyway, stay safe. No civilian from either side should be hurt.
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Old 11-19-2012, 04:14 PM   #244
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Originally Posted by go bowe View Post
hold on there, buddy...

it's not a disclosure when it's already obvious to whoever reads his posts, is it?
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Old 11-19-2012, 04:27 PM   #245
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Stop speaking truth and you won't hear a peep out of me, sugar.
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Old 11-19-2012, 04:32 PM   #246
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Israel cannot even try and protect itself without some idiot terrorist supporters condemning them.


To protest Israel's Gaza offensive, 'Anonymous' launches millions of cyberattacks


JERUSALEM - A concerted effort of millions of attempts to cripple Israeli websites during the Gaza conflict has failed, Israel's finance minister said Monday, claiming that the only site that was successfully hacked was back up within minutes.

Cyber security experts said that such hacking attempts have become a new aspect of modern-day warfare and states have to invest in fortifying their virtual defences on a battleground with vague terrain.

Israel regularly fights off hundreds of hacking attempts every day, but nothing on the scale of the recent torrent of attacks.

The online group Anonymous and other protesters have barraged Israel with more than 60 million hacking attempts, according to the finance minister, Yuval Steinitz.

To counter the threat, Steinitz said, the government is working in "emergency mode." He claimed all but one of the attacks has been fended off, and that one knocked a website offline for only 10 minutes.

Anonymous - the multifaceted movement of online rebels and self-described "hacktivists," spearheaded the campaign against Israel, distributing press releases and videos denouncing what it described as an "insane attack" against Gaza. The cyber onslaught began after Israel launched airstrikes against Gaza last week following persistent rocket fire.

Others have joined into what has effectively become a free-for-all attack on Israel. One group, which called itself the Pakistani Cyber Army, claimed responsibility for having hijacked roughly two dozen Israeli-registered sites, including one belonging to Coca-Cola.

One of its members, who identified himself only as a Pakistani Muslim, told The Associated Press that more was on the way.

"We won't stop until they stop killing innocent kids and people," he said.

Much of the online onslaught has come in the form of denial-of-service attacks, a technique that works by overloading a website with traffic.

Tel Aviv-based security company Radware said the attacks against Israel first began surging across the web on Thursday, describing some as well co-ordinated denial-of-service attacks. Although such attacks can effectively knock their targets off the web, they're usually temporary and rarely do lasting damage.

Radware said the targets included the Israel Defence Forces, the prime minister's office, Israeli banks, the Tel Aviv city government, airlines, infrastructure and business sites.

Ronen Kenig, a Radware analyst, said the flow of rogue traffic wasn't as powerful as attacks that hit the U.S. banking sector two months ago.

"In terms of the amount of traffic, it's not massive," he said, explaining that the attackers were yet to draw on networks of infected computers — known as botnets — to mount their attacks. Botnets are amassed by hackers and can grow to include thousands of compromised computers, giving them much more firepower than a few dozen online activists acting in tandem.

Government sites aren't the only ones targeted. Many other apparently randomly chosen Israeli sites have been hit, including an Israeli massage parlour, an obscure luxury car site, an accountancy practice and a university website.

Erel Margalit, chairman of Jerusalem Venture Partners, a leading Israeli venture capital firm, has invested significantly in Israel's cybersecurity system but said more must be done.

"Israel has the Iron Dome system (to intercept incoming rockets), but it needs a cyberdome," he said, noting the government just approved collaboration on the first-ever private cybersecurity incubator to further invest in the industry.

"The start-up nation is also a cybernation, it needs to be defended, and Israel is known to be quite advanced in this field," he said. Israel is often called the start-up nation because of its technology companies.

Kenig said his company had seen evidence the attackers were ramping up their efforts.

Technolytics Institute, a private U.S. consultancy, said Israel is prepared to confront incoming threats, rating Israel as fourth behind Russia, China, and the U.S. for cyberintelligence capabilities — not just defensive, but offensive, as well.

Kevin Coleman, senior fellow at Technolytics, said while Israel has invested significantly in the industry, Anonymous has become a new, threatening "virtual state" of sorts.

"When you think about conflict in general, you think about borders, but the internet doesn't have borders," he said. "So how do you retaliate against a loose coalition? How do you negotiate a cease-fire with Anonymous? We're at the tip of the iceberg in figuring out how to deal with virtual states and creating a new paradigm," he said.

"We need to do it quickly, though. This is the warfare of the future."
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Old 11-19-2012, 04:45 PM   #247
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cyber attack
cyber onslaught
cyber army
cyber security
cyber dome
cyber nation
cyber warfare

Note to journalists. The more you use the word "cyber" the less credibility you have.

Insipid writing like this should be dismissed out of hand. It's worse since they call a DoS attack "hacking" and then think that the random script kiddie posting "we are legion" would have access to a large enough network to kick of a distributed denial of service attack. Of course DDoS's aren't really hacking either but hey...whatever.

Slap the word "cyber" in front of whatever you'd like and someone will give you a budget item for it if you work in government.
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Old 11-19-2012, 08:07 PM   #248
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donger View Post
What makes you think that the Palestinians and Hamas would accept what you proposed?
I'm pretty sure if that option was available today, Palestinians would pretty much force Hamas to agree with it or see themselves get voted out in droves.

You'd take that deal though, right? I haven't got an answer from you, yet.
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Old 11-19-2012, 08:09 PM   #249
Direckshun Direckshun is online now
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
You haven't established what the land swaps would be. But that's not important because we know that the palestinians don't want peace.
The land swaps aren't a big deal in negotiations. They've been agreed to a couple times even though a deal's never been hammered out. The big deal is the two-state solution and demilitarized Palestinian people.

I'm telling you right now, pat, as a pretend-representative of the Palestinian people: I take the deal.

Do you take the deal?
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Old 11-19-2012, 08:09 PM   #250
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
I'm pretty sure if that option was available today, Palestinians would pretty much force Hamas to agree with it or see themselves get voted out in droves.

You'd take that deal though, right? I haven't got an answer from you, yet.
Why would they? Hamas is hugely popular with the rank and file right? After all, Hamas won the election, so they have a mandate, right?
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Old 11-19-2012, 08:09 PM   #251
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Originally Posted by mnchiefsguy View Post
You are pretty amusing yourself Direckshun. The fact that you cannot tell the difference between collateral damage and intentionally targeting women and children is very telling.

Israel is not perfect, but they are on the right side of this conflict.

You can be a Muslin and live peacefully in Israel. Can you be a Jew and survive Gaza?
You haven't answered me yet:

Two-state solution, '67 borders with land swaps, demilitarized Palestine.

Deal?
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Old 11-19-2012, 08:11 PM   #252
Direckshun Direckshun is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nafman87 View Post
I have been on this site for a while just reading threads and posts by other people. I am a huge chiefs fan that lives in Israel. I served in the Israeli army for 3 years as a tank driver and a medic.
It makes me sad to see how people really can't see the truth in the Israeli Palestinian situation. The Israeli citizens in the south are constantly living in fear because of all the rockets that Hamas has been shooting at their homes, schools, places of work, public parks.

Believe me Israel would love nothing more than live in peace with the Palestinians. I was in the previous operation in gaze in 2009 and am waiting to get the call for reserves any day now.

Unlike Hamas we don't use our woman and children as human shields. We are defending our country just like any other country would in our situation.
God bless -- I didn't know we had an Israeli Planeteer! Welcome aboard.

No people should have to live in fear. Both sides should take extraordinary measures to achieve that, and deserve condemnation if they don't.

Be safe.
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Old 11-19-2012, 08:12 PM   #253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
You haven't answered me yet:

Two-state solution, '67 borders with land swaps, demilitarized Palestine.

Deal?
How do you plan to demilitarize Palestine? I can easily see the deal going through, and then the new Palestine government saying, "We can't control what the factions do, we have no control over them." What penalties does the new Palestine state pay if rockets continue to be lobbed into Israel by the radicals?
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Old 11-19-2012, 08:12 PM   #254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
The land swaps aren't a big deal in negotiations. They've been agreed to a couple times even though a deal's never been hammered out. The big deal is the two-state solution and demilitarized Palestinian people.

I'm telling you right now, pat, as a pretend-representative of the Palestinian people: I take the deal.

Do you take the deal?
The land swaps haven't ever been worked out and you're delusional if you think the palestinians would accept and live peacefully. My answer would be yes, depending on whether the land swaps could be worked out to insure Israel's security.
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Old 11-19-2012, 08:15 PM   #255
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post

'67 borders with land swaps,

You want Jerusalem...
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