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Old 11-13-2012, 01:38 PM  
HonestChieffan HonestChieffan is offline
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Strikes dont always work.

On the first business day after bakers went on strike against Hostess Brands, the Irving-based company said Monday it will permanently close three striking bakeries, putting 627 employees out of work.

Late Friday, the Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco Workers and Grain Millers International Union went on strike against Irving-based Hostess to protest cuts and give-backs in the company’s last, best, final contract offer. The contract, which was rejected by 92 percent of the union members who voted, called, in part, for 8 percent pay cuts, a company hiatus from contributions to a multi-employer pension plan and changes in work rules.

As of Monday, bakers had set up picket lines at about 23 of the 36 bakeries and production plants operated by the bankrupt snack maker. Hostess said the strike “has prevented the facilities from producing and delivering products.”

“Our customers will not be affected because we will continue to serve them from other Hostess Brands bakeries, but sadly this action will result in the permanent closure of three facilities and the loss of 627 jobs,” said Gregory Rayburn, Hostess Brands’ chief executive.

“We deeply regret this decision, but we have repeatedly explained that we will close facilities that are no longer able to produce and deliver products because of a work stoppage — and that we will close the entire company if widespread strikes cripple our business.”

The bakeries to be closed immediately are in Seattle, St. Louis and Cincinnati. The Seattle facility employs 110 people and produces Hostess cake products. The St. Louis facility employs 365 people and produces Hostess cakes and Nature’s Pride and Wonder breads.

http://www.dallasnews.com/business/h...cincinnati.ece
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Old 11-16-2012, 11:33 AM   #121
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Originally Posted by Buehler445 View Post
Guess I missed that. Apologies. But one of the points Amno made was that the union didn't have faith in the ability of the company to come out of it due to their debt structure. And that was the reason they denied the offer. I guess his point isn't valid either.

But suggesting that the union is blameless in all this is silly.

92% of the members voted in favor. I think I mentioned that.

I said the union (meaning the workers, really, in this context) didn't have confidence in the company and its leadership. I don't know that that is why they denied hte offer, but it would seem to be the most likely reason beyond "it's economically unacceptable", which is obviously the main reason.
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Old 11-16-2012, 11:35 AM   #122
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Originally Posted by King_Chief_Fan View Post
the company could easily have locked the union out, and hired replacement workers. Their on stream time, quality would proabably be improved.

There is a company in Iowa where the workers have been on strike over 3 years, the company replaced the entire workforce (with fewer people) and the company has the best cost position, on stream time and highest quality in the companies history. The employees wages and benefits are comperable to what the union workers were being paid.

Union workers are scratching their head wondering, where is my union support now?

You're kind of all over the place here, but seemingly the company could NOT have easily locked the union out because, well, they didn't. Instead they chose death.
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Old 11-16-2012, 11:44 AM   #123
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Originally Posted by Amnorix View Post
You're kind of all over the place here, but seemingly the company could NOT have easily locked the union out because, well, they didn't. Instead they chose death.
Choosing death must have been their goal then. If they wanted to continue to run operations, they could have locked out union workers since there was no contract.

regardless, i do think it is a sad ending........mostly for the employees.
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Old 11-16-2012, 11:47 AM   #124
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Not defending the employer, but just to be clear, they are not losing their pensions, the employer is just not paying into them anymore. They get to keep what is already there. I lost my pension plan some 10 years ago, but still have the balance of what was already paid into it. I don't know many people that have pension plans any longer outside of my friends that are teachers or govt employees.
same here. Lots of fortune 500 companies did away with pensions years ago.
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Old 11-16-2012, 11:49 AM   #125
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Originally Posted by King_Chief_Fan View Post
Choosing death must have been their goal then. If they wanted to continue to run operations, they could have locked out union workers since there was no contract.

regardless, i do think it is a sad ending........mostly for the employees.
Especially the 8% who got voted out of a job.
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Old 11-16-2012, 11:49 AM   #126
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Originally Posted by Amnorix View Post
92% of the members voted in favor. I think I mentioned that.

I said the union (meaning the workers, really, in this context) didn't have confidence in the company and its leadership. I don't know that that is why they denied hte offer, but it would seem to be the most likely reason beyond "it's economically unacceptable", which is obviously the main reason.
Then I suppose they deserve to be on the bread lines. Mind bogglingly ****ing stupid.
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Old 11-16-2012, 11:57 AM   #127
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Originally Posted by King_Chief_Fan View Post
Choosing death must have been their goal then. If they wanted to continue to run operations, they could have locked out union workers since there was no contract.

regardless, i do think it is a sad ending........mostly for the employees.

I doubt the hedge funds, which poured in millions of dollars, are very happy at the outcome either. Sounds like alot of poor choices along the way by alot of people, which is often what causes this kind of result.
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Old 11-16-2012, 12:01 PM   #128
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Some good information

http://hotair.com/archives/2012/11/1...ement-dispute/

Update II: Like I said, I haven’t paid much attention to this fight, so I don’t have a lot of insight into whether labor or management has been more unreasonable. However, the Teamsters’ web site seems to lay the blame on the Bakery, Confectionary, Tobacco and Grain Millers International Union (BCTGM) for refusing to go along with the Teamsters to accept the last offer from Hostess:
Quote:
In fact, when Hostess attempted to throw out its collective bargaining agreement with the Teamsters in court, the Teamsters fought back and won, ensuring that Hostess could not unilaterally make changes to working conditions during the several months’ long legal process that recently ended.

Teamster Hostess members were allowed to decide their fate by voting on the final offer conducted by a secret mail ballot. More than two-thirds of Hostess Teamsters members voted with 53 percent voting to approve the final offer.

The BCTGM chose a different path, as is their prerogative, to not substantively look for a solution or engage in the process. BCTGM members were told there were better solutions than the final offer, although Judge Drain stated in his decision in bankruptcy court that no such solutions exist. Without complete information, BCTGM members voted by voice votes in union halls. The BCTGM reported that over 90 percent rejected the final offer and three of its units ratified the final offer.

On Friday, Nov. 9, the BCTGM began to strike at some Hostess production facilities without notice to the Teamsters despite assurances they would not proceed with job actions without contacting the Teamsters Union. This unannounced action put Teamster members in the difficult position of facing picket lines without knowing their right to honor such a line without being disciplined.

As is our longstanding tradition, Teamster members by and large are honoring Bakery Worker picket lines when encountered and complying with their contractual obligations when not encountering picket lines. The BCTGM leaders are putting Teamster members in a horrible position – asking them to support a strike that will put them out of a job when they haven’t even asked all their members to go on strike.

That strike is now on the verge of forcing the company to liquidate – it is difficult for Teamster members to believe that is what the BCTGM Hostess members ultimately wanted to accomplish when they went out on strike. We may never know unless the BCTGM members, based on the facts they know today, get to determine their fate in a secret ballot vote.

Teamster members would understand that the will of the BCTGM Hostess membership was truly heard if that was the case.
That’s a pretty remarkable statement from the Teamsters.

Update (MKH): Just a little background. There’s a lot going on, here, though the bakers union strike was certainly the last straw for Hostess. The company has been in bankruptcy twice in the last decade, and as Allahpundit notes, the culture of organics and calorie-counting was working against them.

But the bakers union deserved to get thrown under the bus by the Teamsters because it looks like they threw the Teamsters under the bus, first. The Teamsters and the bakers worked together to come to a deal with Hostess in September. The bakers were quiet during negotiations, and apparently pulled a surprise move when they rejected the deal.
Quote:
Hostess, which also owns Ding Dongs, Ho Hos, Wonder Bread and other celebrated baked goods, has been in Chapter 11 since January, its second such filing in a decade. The key parties have been two major hedge funds and two big unions, and they’ve been fighting over wages and pensions. Hostess contends givebacks are needed for the company to emerge from bankruptcy. The unions respond they’ve given up enough.

Last month, Hostess made what it said was its “last, best offer.” CEO Greg Rayburn told Fortune that union rejection would result in the company immediately filing to liquidate—and putting thousands of employees out of work. Union members were faced with a Hobson’s choice: accept drastic concession or lose their jobs.

Late last Friday the largest unions—the Teamsters—announced that by a narrow vote, 53.6% to 46.4%, its Hostess rank-and-file had approved the new collective bargaining agreement. (Out of 7,900 Teamsters voting at the company, slightly more than half cast votes). Rayburn and Teamsters leadership both offered up measured words about the “difficult” decision.

But shortly thereafter, word came that the 7,000 employees of the Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco Workers and Grain Millers International Union had rejected Hostess’ proposal. (No details of the vote were announced, though some press reports suggested there were only voice votes at locals rather than a written mail tally.) Though the leader of the bakers’ union in recent weeks had excoriated the proposal, the rejection was nonetheless curious. That’s because the bakers’ union had been quiescent for months in bankruptcy court, letting the Teamsters engage Hostess management and the hedge funds over the company’s demands to restructure by scuttling existing labor agreements.
This is what the deal looked like. It sounds like the Teamsters really did make sacrifices, and many of them were crossing the bakers’ picket line to keep the company functioning:
Quote:
The proposed new labor deal consists of an immediate 8% wage cut and work rules more favorable to the company.

Employer contributions for health insurance would decrease 17%. Hostess contributions to multi-employer pension plans would cease until 2015, at which point the current required level of funding would plummet from $100 million to $25 million.

According to Rayburn, the proposal has been endorsed by Hostess’s key secured lenders, which are led by hedge funds Silver Point Capital and Monarch Alternative Capital. One estimate put cost savings for Hostess in the neighborhood of $200 million.

For their part, the unions would receive two seats on a restructured nine-member board of directors and 25% of equity. That would make the unions part of Hostess’ capital structure for the first time.
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Old 11-16-2012, 12:32 PM
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Old 11-16-2012, 12:39 PM   #129
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You have a pretty weird way of looking at the world. Just sayin'


Its what the country voted for. I'm guessing most of those union bakers voted for it too.
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Old 11-16-2012, 01:39 PM   #130
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Its what the country voted for. I'm guessing most of those union bakers voted for it too.


Yes, free condoms. That's what the 2012 election came down to. Thanks for clearing that up for us.
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Old 11-16-2012, 01:39 PM   #131
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Yes, free condoms. That's what the 2012 election came down to. Thanks for clearing that up for us.
free condoms and no ding dongs
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Old 11-16-2012, 02:20 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by dirk digler View Post
Some good information

http://hotair.com/archives/2012/11/1...ement-dispute/

Update II: Like I said, I haven’t paid much attention to this fight, so I don’t have a lot of insight into whether labor or management has been more unreasonable. However, the Teamsters’ web site seems to lay the blame on the Bakery, Confectionary, Tobacco and Grain Millers International Union (BCTGM) for refusing to go along with the Teamsters to accept the last offer from Hostess:That’s a pretty remarkable statement from the Teamsters.

Update (MKH): Just a little background. There’s a lot going on, here, though the bakers union strike was certainly the last straw for Hostess. The company has been in bankruptcy twice in the last decade, and as Allahpundit notes, the culture of organics and calorie-counting was working against them.

But the bakers union deserved to get thrown under the bus by the Teamsters because it looks like they threw the Teamsters under the bus, first. The Teamsters and the bakers worked together to come to a deal with Hostess in September. The bakers were quiet during negotiations, and apparently pulled a surprise move when they rejected the deal.
This is what the deal looked like. It sounds like the Teamsters really did make sacrifices, and many of them were crossing the bakers’ picket line to keep the company functioning:
Yep. Sounds like the Teamsters acted rationally on this one.
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Old 11-16-2012, 05:46 PM   #133
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Yep. Sounds like the Teamsters acted rationally on this one.
As did management
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Old 11-16-2012, 05:50 PM   #134
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These people make me want to gag


Washington (CNN) – Several major labor unions are banding together to launch an ad campaign next week urging members of Congress to raise tax rates on the wealthiest Americans and to protect entitlement programs from major cuts as a solution to the looming fiscal cliff, a source with knowledge of the effort told CNN Friday.

The American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees, the Service Employees International Union and the National Education Association are banding together for this campaign, which will be launched next week.

The effort will include a “six figure” buy of television ads, as well as ads online, the source told CNN.

The groups will argue, using new polling data, that the public does not favor major cuts in entitlement programs like Medicaid, but wants to see a solution to curbing the nation’s deficit based on raising the tax burden on the wealthier parts of the population, as well as policies that encourage job growth.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...r-ad-campaign/
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Old 11-16-2012, 05:55 PM   #135
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wow. Based on what I'm reading, the baker's union are a bunch of idiots.
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