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Old 11-13-2012, 01:38 PM  
HonestChieffan HonestChieffan is offline
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Strikes dont always work.

On the first business day after bakers went on strike against Hostess Brands, the Irving-based company said Monday it will permanently close three striking bakeries, putting 627 employees out of work.

Late Friday, the Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco Workers and Grain Millers International Union went on strike against Irving-based Hostess to protest cuts and give-backs in the company’s last, best, final contract offer. The contract, which was rejected by 92 percent of the union members who voted, called, in part, for 8 percent pay cuts, a company hiatus from contributions to a multi-employer pension plan and changes in work rules.

As of Monday, bakers had set up picket lines at about 23 of the 36 bakeries and production plants operated by the bankrupt snack maker. Hostess said the strike “has prevented the facilities from producing and delivering products.”

“Our customers will not be affected because we will continue to serve them from other Hostess Brands bakeries, but sadly this action will result in the permanent closure of three facilities and the loss of 627 jobs,” said Gregory Rayburn, Hostess Brands’ chief executive.

“We deeply regret this decision, but we have repeatedly explained that we will close facilities that are no longer able to produce and deliver products because of a work stoppage — and that we will close the entire company if widespread strikes cripple our business.”

The bakeries to be closed immediately are in Seattle, St. Louis and Cincinnati. The Seattle facility employs 110 people and produces Hostess cake products. The St. Louis facility employs 365 people and produces Hostess cakes and Nature’s Pride and Wonder breads.

http://www.dallasnews.com/business/h...cincinnati.ece
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Old 11-14-2012, 04:05 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Amnorix View Post
So, further to my last, here's a telling chart -- comparing corporate profits to employee wages over time.





This, meanwhile, all has a pretty negative effect on helping the economy recover. Employers aren't hiring, and they're not giving raises, which resulted in NEGATIVE real wage growth in 2011. So across the entire American workforce, purchasing power was less in 2011 than 2010. So we have not only high unemployment, but even among the gainfully employed less real wages.

All against a backdrop of record corporate profits.
Is it not to the employee's benefit to have an employer that is financially viable? Do they not benefit by added training, equipment, facilities, advancement opportunities?
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Old 11-14-2012, 09:08 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Amnorix View Post
Defined benefit pensions are definitely dying out outside government jobs. Defined contribution plans, however, still exist outside of government employees. I didn't see anything that makes clear which one this was.
Not sure what a defined contribution plan is, like a 401k? It said pensions, so I assumed that is exactly what it was, a pension solely funded by the employer. Something I lost many years ago, as did many of my peers, post 9/11. Like you though I am unclear as to what they are cutting out from these baker fellows. I was just speculating that it was a traditional pension. I could be wrong though, of course.
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Old 11-15-2012, 12:22 PM   #48
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kwch.com/business/kwch-hostess-ceo-gives-striking-workers-thursday-deadline-20121114,0,2860295.story
kwch.com
Hostess CEO gives striking workers Thursday deadline

By Chris Durden

KWCH 12 Eyewitness News

8:30 PM CST, November 14, 2012

(EMPORIA, Kan.)
Advertisement

Hostess Brands CEO said Wednesday the company will liquidate unless striking workers return to the job by the end of the day on Thursday.

"We simply do not have the financial resources to survive an ongoing national strike," Gregory Rayburn said in a statement.

Workers are protesting a contract imposed by a bankruptcy court. The bakers union has called the contract "outrageous."

A liquidation would result in more than 18,000 workers losing their jobs.

Over the weekend, workers in the Bakery, Confectionary, Tobacco Workers and Grain Millers International Union, or BCTGM, went on strike at Hostess-owned plants in several states. The strike includes workers at the Dolly Madison plant in Emporia.

Hostess filed for bankruptcy in January, the second time it has done so since 2004.

Union employees in Emporia say in August of last year the company stopped giving them their pension earning. They say it now wants to cut wages by eight percent.

"You put in the time, you put in the years, I mean, we all have dedicated our lives to the company and they just don't appreciate it," said one striking worker.

Steven Blakey says he he was looking forward to retiring from the company. He says what's going on now hurts not just him, but his family as well.

"I spent 30 years of my life, missed a lot of time with my family, now it's time for me to enjoy that time and I have to keep working, I'm missing out on a lot." said Blakey.

The Dolly Madison plant in Emporia is one of the city's largest employers.

Tuesday, Hostess said it will permanently close bakeries in Seattle, St. Louis and Cincinnati. Those three plants employ 627 people combined. The strike is impacting 24 of Hostess' 33 plants.

Copyright © 2012, KWCH-TV
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Old 11-15-2012, 12:30 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallas Chief View Post
Not sure what a defined contribution plan is, like a 401k? It said pensions, so I assumed that is exactly what it was, a pension solely funded by the employer. Something I lost many years ago, as did many of my peers, post 9/11. Like you though I am unclear as to what they are cutting out from these baker fellows. I was just speculating that it was a traditional pension. I could be wrong though, of course.
a typical pension plan is a defined benefit plan...you work x amount of time against some calculation that gives you a determined/defined pension amouint. Those are getting more rare.

401K is a defined contribution plan....you put in x dollars and we will match some defined amount to your dollars.

I am fortunate that my company still provides both
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Old 11-15-2012, 12:36 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stinger View Post
kwch.com/business/kwch-hostess-ceo-gives-striking-workers-thursday-deadline-20121114,0,2860295.story
kwch.com
Hostess CEO gives striking workers Thursday deadline

B

"You put in the time, you put in the years, I mean, we all have dedicated our lives to the company and they just don't appreciate it," said one striking worker.

Steven Blakey says he he was looking forward to retiring from the company. He says what's going on now hurts not just him, but his family as well.

"I spent 30 years of my life, missed a lot of time with my family, now it's time for me to enjoy that time and I have to keep working, I'm missing out on a lot." said Blakey.


Copyright © 2012, KWCH-TV
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Clueless bastard. Enjoy shifting from the bakery to the bread line.
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Old 11-15-2012, 01:31 PM   #51
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Piss on the fire and call in the dogs. Sounds like they will shut it down once and for all. Big ugly hit for Emporia.
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Old 11-15-2012, 02:16 PM   #52
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Old 11-15-2012, 03:55 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
Do more with less. Business has been highly successful acomplishing just that. Government is the exact opposite. They deliver inferior results with greater spending. And the next few years will be the ultimate.

I agree that that is what business does, and is good at. The issue, for a variety of reasons, is that businesses seem to be increasingly focused on only increasing the wealth of very senior management, while ignoring the rest of the employees. This is part of the growing income/wealth gap, which is bad for the overall economy.

See, for example:

http://go.bloomberg.com/multimedia/a...ies-in-action/


This thread has nothing whatsoever to do with government spending or efficiency, so I'll just ignore whatever you're talking about there (not that I disagree, it's just irrelevant).
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Old 11-15-2012, 04:12 PM   #54
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I think it is very sad that there might not be any more Twinkies.
It hurts my fillings.
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Old 11-15-2012, 04:16 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by vailpass View Post
Is it not to the employee's benefit to have an employer that is financially viable? Do they not benefit by added training, equipment, facilities, advancement opportunities?


Well, employees benefit mostly by getting a better paycheck. The fact is that whether they are getting added training or not, they aren't bringing home more bacon. Equipment may make them more efficient, which is fine, but it's also resulting in co-workers being laid off sometimes (if 4 can do the work formerly done by 5 because of increased efficiency in facilities/equipment -- see the steel industry for a fine example*). So the net result is fewer workers are doing more work for less pay (in real dollars) while the wealth increasingly aggregates above them. How that is better for workers is beyond me.


*The US produces more steel than it ever did, but does it with about 10% of the workforce that it had in the 50s and 60s due to automation etc.
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Old 11-15-2012, 04:21 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Dallas Chief View Post
Not sure what a defined contribution plan is, like a 401k? It said pensions, so I assumed that is exactly what it was, a pension solely funded by the employer. Something I lost many years ago, as did many of my peers, post 9/11. Like you though I am unclear as to what they are cutting out from these baker fellows. I was just speculating that it was a traditional pension. I could be wrong though, of course.

Not a 401(k), which is a separate account under the tax code which may or may not involve employer contributions/matches.

I'm no expert, but as I understand it, fundamentally there are two types of pension plans -- defined benefit and defined contribution. Both are either wholly or mostly funded by the employer, most of the time.

A defined benefit plan is the old school manufacturing section pension, which now mostly only exist through government jobs. It basically says that upon reaching certain targets/thresholders (years worked, minimum age, etc.) that you will received X dollars for the rest of your life, no matter how long you live. The employer is obligated to fund the plan thick or thin to ensure that you continue getting paid long after you have retired. These plans are absolutely horrible to the economics of any business, and to the government. As the population ages, they will increasingly strangle those few entities, and the government, that still has them.

A defined contribution plan is a plan that simply says that the employer will fund X dollars into the plan for each year you work, with X variable based on percentage of pay, years worked, or whatever. Then, when you hit the necessary milestones (age etc.) you may draw out of that plan certain amounts. This system actually makes sense, economically, for the employer. First, there is no oblgiation to fund for RETIRED workers (i.e. paying for those who give you nothing). Second, you can easily budget for it. You know that it's a perk for your employees, like any other, and you can calculate what it will cost. Defined benefit plans, however, are guesstimates at best, based on how long your employees may live, etc.
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Old 11-15-2012, 04:23 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King_Chief_Fan View Post
a typical pension plan is a defined benefit plan...you work x amount of time against some calculation that gives you a determined/defined pension amouint. Those are getting more rare.

401K is a defined contribution plan....you put in x dollars and we will match some defined amount to your dollars.

I am fortunate that my company still provides both

There are defined contribution plans that are not 401(k) plans. They are true pensions, and most of the time employees need not put in a dime.
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Old 11-15-2012, 04:26 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Amnorix View Post
Well, employees benefit mostly by getting a better paycheck. The fact is that whether they are getting added training or not, they aren't bringing home more bacon. Equipment may make them more efficient, which is fine, but it's also resulting in co-workers being laid off sometimes (if 4 can do the work formerly done by 5 because of increased efficiency in facilities/equipment -- see the steel industry for a fine example*). So the net result is fewer workers are doing more work for less pay (in real dollars) while the wealth increasingly aggregates above them. How that is better for workers is beyond me.


*The US produces more steel than it ever did, but does it with about 10% of the workforce that it had in the 50s and 60s due to automation etc.
If that is the path a company needs to take in order to stay competitive and remain in business then it is best for the remaining employees, isn't it?

Like the employees at the Twinkie factory who couldn't figure out that 92% of something is better than 0%.
What a bunch of ding dongs.
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Old 11-15-2012, 04:43 PM   #59
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Piss on the fire and call in the dogs. Sounds like they will shut it down once and for all. Big ugly hit for Emporia.
Again. Modine a decade or so ago. IBP 3 or 4 years ago. Now Dolly Madison. They kept saying they were going to shut it down, but I guess now they will.

I think they built a second dogfood plant recently though.
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Old 11-15-2012, 04:45 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Amnorix View Post
Well, employees benefit mostly by getting a better paycheck. The fact is that whether they are getting added training or not, they aren't bringing home more bacon. Equipment may make them more efficient, which is fine, but it's also resulting in co-workers being laid off sometimes (if 4 can do the work formerly done by 5 because of increased efficiency in facilities/equipment -- see the steel industry for a fine example*). So the net result is fewer workers are doing more work for less pay (in real dollars) while the wealth increasingly aggregates above them. How that is better for workers is beyond me.


*The US produces more steel than it ever did, but does it with about 10% of the workforce that it had in the 50s and 60s due to automation etc.
It's better for the workers because if it still took 10x as many workers to produce that steel, there wouldn't be any steel produced in the US at all.
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