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Old 11-13-2012, 06:07 AM  
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Republicans shifting towards climate change legislation.

Thank you god.

Can we get this done in the next two years, please?

Norquist seems to be pushing for it to be part of the Grand Bargain. The last time Obama scored energy legislation it was wrapped up in the stimulus package. Wrapping up more energy legislation in a Grand Bargain would be consistent with that -- never let an opportunity go to waste, amiright?

http://www.nationaljournal.com/energ...ledge-20121112

Norquist: Carbon-Tax Swap for Income-Tax Cut Wouldn't Violate No-Tax-Hike Pledge
Coral Davenport
November 12, 2012 | 5:09 p.m.

In a step that may help crack open the partisan impasse on climate change, Grover Norquist, the influential lobbyist who has bound hundreds of Republicans to a pledge never to raise taxes, told National Journal that a proposed “carbon tax swap”—taxing carbon pollution in exchange for cutting the income tax—would not violate his pledge.

Norquist’s assessment matters a lot, and could help pave the way for at least a handful of Republicans to support the policy. Over the past six months, a growing number of conservative voices, including former Republican officials and renowned economists, have amped up pressure on their party to finally address climate change.

One group, the Energy and Enterprise Initiative headed by former Rep. Bob Inglis, R-S.C., has been working for months to persuade the GOP to take up a carbon-tax swap as part of a broad tax-reform package next year. The idea is to create a market signal to drive consumers away from fossil fuels by taxing the carbon pollution caused by burning coal, oil, and natural gas.

The problem is that creating a new “energy tax” would be viewed by some as political suicide. And Republicans who have signed Norquist’s pledge would be barred from supporting it.

That’s where the “swap” side of the policy comes in: The new carbon tax would be paired with a cut in the income tax—something Republicans have long sought. The idea essentially would be to cut the tax on income and move it over to carbon pollution—keeping the proposal revenue-neutral.

“It’s possible you could structure something that wasn’t an increase and didn’t violate the pledge,” Norquist told National Journal.

But Norquist made clear he himself doesn’t like the policy. “It would infuriate taxpayers,” he said. He also opined that politically, it’s beyond a long shot. While supporters might now be talking about how to structure the tax swap in such a way that it could win political support, “It’s a conversation about what color unicorn you’d like,” Norquist said.

“If the Democrats thought it was a good idea and the country wouldn’t hate them for it they would have done it in 2009,” when their party held majorities in both chambers of Congress, he said.

Still, if the tax swap could indeed be structured in such a way that it wouldn’t violate Norquist’s pledge, it could remove at least one political obstacle for some Republicans.

“We hear frequently, constantly from Republican lawmakers who say, we see climate change as a huge problem and we want to talk about ways to do this, but for now they’re afraid to talk about it, because of the political repercussions,” said Rob Sisson, president of the group ConservAmerica, formerly Republicans for Environmental Protection.

Conversation about a carbon tax is increasing in Washington. In September, the Congressional Budget Office released a report concluding that a carbon tax on its own—not paired with a tax cut elsewhere—could reduce the federal deficit by 10 percent to 50 percent.

The day after the presidential election, the global bank HSBC put out a research note identifying a carbon tax as a policy that could emerge in President Obama’s second term.

On Tuesday, the Brookings Institution hosts a daylong conference on the economics of a carbon tax, featuring speakers from CBO, the Treasury Department, and the International Monetary Fund.
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Old 11-13-2012, 08:10 AM   #16
Iowanian Iowanian is offline
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NO.

Carbon tax will be an economy killer.


Only democrats are that stupid.
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Old 11-13-2012, 10:20 AM   #17
mnchiefsguy mnchiefsguy is offline
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Originally Posted by Iowanian View Post
NO.

Carbon tax will be an economy killer.


Only democrats are that stupid.
While I agree with you, unfortunately, if some Republicans go along with it, Democrats will not be the only stupid ones.

Carbon taxes will be an economy killer.
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Old 11-13-2012, 10:26 AM   #18
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When and why did "Global Warming" become "Climate Change"?
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Old 11-13-2012, 10:31 AM   #19
vailpass vailpass is offline
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he's a piece of dog shit.
Yep. That fat **** can coronary himself today and it would be a good thing.
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Old 11-13-2012, 10:43 AM   #20
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I don't agree that a carbon tax would be an economy killer if it replaced a different tax instead of being applied on top of existing taxes. In fact, the good thing about a carbon tax is not that it addresses climate change (it doesn't, unless we're talking about taxing carbon across the entire developed and developing world). It's that it shifts a portion of our tax system away from production onto consumption and because it stands as a price proxy for the national security expenses we incur to keep the global oil trade flowing.
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Old 11-13-2012, 11:12 AM   #21
Pawnmower Pawnmower is offline
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Awesome. **** income taxes.
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Old 11-13-2012, 11:13 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
it shifts a portion of our tax system away from production onto consumption


Someone gets it
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Old 11-13-2012, 11:53 AM   #23
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Thank you god.

In a step that may help crack open the partisan impasse on climate change, Grover Norquist, the influential lobbyist who has bound hundreds of Republicans to a pledge never to raise taxes, told National Journal that a proposed “carbon tax swap”—taxing carbon pollution in exchange for cutting the income tax—would not violate his pledge.

The problem is that creating a new “energy tax” would be viewed by some as political suicide. And Republicans who have signed Norquist’s pledge would be barred from supporting it.

“It’s possible you could structure something that wasn’t an increase and didn’t violate the pledge,” Norquist told National Journal.
Its one thing to be for or against this idea. But the power of Grover and this ****ing pledge are just ridiculous. "Can't do it--I signed a pledge to a lobbyist."--WTF? Grover and Rush own the Rs.
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Old 11-13-2012, 11:56 AM   #24
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Someone gets it
Since when did the repubs want more taxes? There won't be any kind of tax cut, just more layed upon us.
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Old 11-13-2012, 12:18 PM   #25
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Thank you god.
Is this the one you speak of?

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Old 11-13-2012, 12:20 PM   #26
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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I thought you said just a couple of days ago that you knew a carbon tax wasn't going to happen?
I am still of the belief that it won't.

I do think something more moderate, like a cap-and-trade concept, is feasible.
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Old 11-13-2012, 12:21 PM   #27
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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The big problem with this idea of a revenue neutral swap of income tax rate cuts for a carbon tax is that democrats can't be trusted not to turn around and try to raise income tax rates again, particularly on "the wealthy".
And Republicans can't be trusted not to turn around and try to eliminate the carbon tax while keeping the income tax cuts in line.

But, you do it anyway, because that's another conversation.
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Old 11-13-2012, 12:21 PM   #28
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Quote:
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I don't agree that a carbon tax would be an economy killer if it replaced a different tax instead of being applied on top of existing taxes. In fact, the good thing about a carbon tax is not that it addresses climate change (it doesn't, unless we're talking about taxing carbon across the entire developed and developing world). It's that it shifts a portion of our tax system away from production onto consumption and because it stands as a price proxy for the national security expenses we incur to keep the global oil trade flowing.
Yep. This is why a lot of Republican economists support it. It shifts taxes to a more efficient system. It would also kill any political will to act on climate change in the more hands-on regulatory way that Democrats prefer, but which would probably be a huge mess.
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Old 11-13-2012, 12:22 PM   #29
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Making everything more expensive is the answer!
It is when your goal is to reduce your carbon footprint.
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Old 11-13-2012, 12:22 PM   #30
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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I actually think this would have been more likely under Romney. His top economic advisor is one of the loudest advocates for a revenue neutral carbon tax out there.
It probably would have been more possible under Romney because the House GOP would be falling in line.
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