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Old 11-12-2012, 10:51 AM  
Von Dumbass Von Dumbass is offline
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PFW: Flowers told teammates he would give all the money back if he could just leave

http://www.profootballweekly.com/201...kansas-citys-l

A day before the country voted on Election Day, the Chiefs gave their concession speech for the season following a 1-7 start.

It came off as a conciliatory measure when, three days after an embarrassing 31-13 prime-time loss to the Chargers — their third consecutive double-digit setback — Chiefs head coach Romeo Crennel removed himself as defensive coordinator, promoting Gary Gibbs to that post, and the team cut starting CB Stanford Routt.

A day later, Crennel announced that QB Matt Cassel (who previously had been benched for Brady Quinn) would start again in Week 10 because Quinn was suffering the aftereffects following a Week Eight concussion against the Raiders.

Assuming that the embattled duo of Crennel and GM Scott Pioli are not employing Socratic irony in running their NFL franchise, we only can assume that the first two moves are their contrition for a lost season. The third, their hopeless QB situation, is a symbol of their severe limitations.

“Their QB situation is bad and they really have not upgraded it at all,” a former Chiefs evaluator said. “Not to mention, the playmakers on the roster — Jamaal Charles, Dwayne Bowe, Derrick Johnson, Brandon Flowers, Tamba Hali — they were already there. (Pioli has) added nothing like that. The left tackle (Branden Albert) they complained about — guess what — he is still playing. He was already there.

“(Pioli) gives $60 million to a backup quarterback, then swap him out for Brady Quinn who now has a concussion. They have done nothing to that roster but (screw) it up.”

The Chiefs are bad — not necessarily historically so, but to a shocking degree:

In more than 485 minutes of football this season, including the lone sudden-death victory in New Orleans, the Chiefs have not had a second tick off the clock with a lead on the scoreboard. You have to go back to the pre-World War II days of professional football to find that kind of inefficiency.
The Chiefs committed 29 turnovers through eight games, the most in the NFL at the midpoint of a season in 15 years. They had 28 for the entire 2011 season.
The combined TD-INT ratio of Cassel and Quinn is 6-14. The only team that has so few TD passes is the Dolphins. No team has more interceptions.
Their point differential in 2012 is minus-107. At home, where they have an 0-4 record, it’s minus-46.

When the Chiefs next return to Kansas City in Week 11, an unpleasant sight might be awaiting them. Two banners flew over Arrowhead Stadium the last time they played there, a hard-fought 26-16 loss to the Raiders. One read “Return Hope, Fire Pioli” and the second read, “Blackout Arrowhead 11/18,” the date when the Chiefs face the Bengals. The “blackout” portion encourages fans to wear all black (instead of their traditional game-day red) as a sign of protest for the direction of the team.

The banners were sponsored by a fan-based group, SaveOurChiefs.com, that is frustrated with the miserable start to the season that began with reasonably high expectations but has endured — and for most intents and purposes, ended — with massive disappointment and the futures of Crennel and Pioli very much up in the air.

“It’s as bad as it’s been here,” said Kansas City Star columnist Sam Mellinger, who has been a frequent, caustic critic of the team this season. “The fans are tired. They are tired of not having a quarterback. (The Chiefs) were a chic Super Bowl pick for some people, and this happens. Fans are angry right now, and you can understand why.”

Naturally, Chiefs coaches and players are frustrated, too. A source told PFW that CB Brandon Flowers, who signed a six-year, $49.3 million deal last September, has been telling teammates in the locker room that he would give back all his new money just so he could leave the team.

“I haven’t heard him saying that,” Chiefs LB Derrick Johnson told PFW. “Brandon Flowers isn’t a problem guy — let’s just get that out there.

“His locker is right by mine. He’s one of our better players on defense. I didn’t know he said that. He does his talking on Sundays on the field. That’s all we ask of him.”

Even with talented players on the roster such as Flowers, the Chiefs have not been able to win. Earlier in the season, after Cassel was injured in the 9-6 loss to the Ravens and replaced by Quinn, ORT Eric Winston launched into a postgame tirade, railing against what he said were fans cheering Cassel’s injury, when neutral observers struggled to hear what Winston said he heard. The rant didn’t do wonders for the relationship with the rabid fan base, some of which is calling for heads to roll, namely those of Crennel and Pioli.

“(Pioli) let a Hall of Famer and great locker-room and great community guy in Tony (Gonzalez) get out of there,” the former Chiefs evaluator said. “(OG Brian) Waters was a great leader and locker-room guy and community guy and went to New England and played at a Pro Bowl level. There are a lot of mistakes there.”

There’s also the issue of Pioli’s contract, the details of which remain closely guarded. It was reported by other news agencies in October that Pioli had been offered a two-year extension during the offseason, but a well-placed league source told PFW that he might quietly have signed such an extension this summer. Like his mentor, Bill Belichick, the Chiefs’ GM does not speak about his contract status. It’s not known what a potential buyout might cost the team, but it certainly would not come cheaply. Either way, fans remain perhaps even more frustrated with Pioli than anyone else in the organization, and it will be tough for him to retain his job without significant second-half improvement.

“I bet (Chiefs owner) Clark (Hunt) is praying that they finish with three more wins some way, somehow,” a top NFL executive said. “If they go 1-15, he can’t justify (keeping Pioli). But get to 5-11 or 6-10 — they will go get a QB and hope they’ll be fine, try to sell that Kool-Aid.

“That is not the answer either. They need a QB and need a lot of other things on defense, too. I love it when it is third down and (2012 first-round pick Dontari) Poe and Tyson Jackson are sitting on the sideline — how many top-10 picks are sitting on the sideline next to the coach on third down?”

Following the loss to the Raiders, Crennel said, “I understand their frustrations because I’m frustrated myself. What we’re doing — coaches, players — we’re continuing to work to try and get it right. And if they’ll just hang with us, hopefully something will change.”

That was followed by the 18-point loss to the Chargers last Thursday. Monday night they face the Steelers, winners of three consecutive games, in Pittsburgh.

“They have big-play potential every play, and we know what they are capable of,” Johnson said. “We’ve seen it, plenty of it, before.”

Awaiting them is former Chiefs head coach Todd Haley, the Steelers’ offensive coordinator who, according to various reports last week, isn’t afraid to run up the score against the team — and, more specifically, the man, Pioli, with whom he repeatedly butted heads for two years — that fired him prior to Week 15 last season. Fox’s Jay Glazer reported on Sunday that the Chiefs had not yet paid the remainder of Haley’s contract that he was owed.

Following Haley’s ouster last season, Crennel was promoted from defensive coordinator to interim coach, engineering a colossal upset of the 13-0 Packers in a defensive masterpiece. It’s believed that the victory, along with Crennel’s good working relationship with Pioli and the players was what earned him the full-time job in the offseason.

But things have gone south since. After Flowers’ deal, plus long-term contracts for Tamba Hali and Johnson the past two seasons, Pioli deemed re-signing CB Brandon Carr too expensive. Instead, the team let him walk to the Cowboys at an average-per-year salary of $10 million, signed Routt as a Band-Aid (three years, $19.6 million, $4 million guaranteed) and used the franchise tag on WR Dwayne Bowe.

No long-term deal has been signed with Bowe, who is playing on the one-year tender of $9.5 million but is expected to walk in free agency this coming offseason. Joining him could be free-agents-to-be OLT Branden Albert and DE Glenn Dorsey. There has been talk about a long-term deal with Albert, and the team could opt to use the franchise tag on him, but it’s not known if any real progress has been made toward an extension. At the start of the season, per NFLPA figures, the Chiefs were $14.5 million below the salary cap.

Of course, the more pressing issue is whether Pioli will be the one making that decision. Some league sources believe that his strong relationship with Hunt — and how much money Pioli has saved the owner by not spending up to the cap every season — could spare the GM for another season, but others believe that ship has sailed and there’s little he or Crennel can do in the final eight games to save themselves.

The moves of cutting Routt, who was signed since Carr left, and promoting Gibbs (which Crennel said would help him spend more time with the struggling offense) appear on the surface to be last-ditch efforts to do so. But many around the league believe that Pioli has not done enough to warrant a return. If Hunt lets Pioli go, it’s unlikely a new general manager would retain Crennel, as he likely would want to hire his own head coach.

The approval ratings and morale around the team are as low as they’ve been since Pioli’s arrival in 2009. Although the Chiefs are strong candidates to earn the first pick in next year’s draft, there doesn't appear to be a college quarterback in the caliber of Andrew Luck or Robert Griffin III to provide relief — or hope.

“Scott has never been a guy who hits the road hard,” an NFL GM said. “I heard he was out scouting the QB at USC (Matt Barkley). To me, that is a sign Scott is running away from his problems. If anything, he needs to be in-house protecting his head coach. Now is not the time to be running out.”

Hunt has heard the fans and seen the midseason results. It’s going to be a tough sell to keep the current administration in place for another season.

“We have to play hard, play for pride,” Johnson said. “It’s not easy. No one is feeling sorry for us. We just have to make the best of this and win as many games as we can.”

Last edited by Von Dumbass; 11-12-2012 at 10:59 AM..
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Old 11-12-2012, 01:48 PM   #91
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He might have asked them to be leaders, but he might as well have asked rain to not be wet.

You can't ask for leadership from people who aren't leaders.
It simply isn't going to work.

If he did ask, and actually expected to get leadership from those guys, then he's a BlackBob level moron.



Do you even think of what it is you are saying when you post?

Do you not understand, at least somewhere in that useless lump of coal that resides inside your head that the implications of what you just said are exactly an indictment of the QB position?
He tried to trade DJ and Bowe in 2009. If you were a GM who was "building your franchise on consistancy," why would you re-sign and franchise players that you tried to trade in your first year on the job? Guys you tried to trade because they were inconsistant? Furthermore, he tried to trade them for cheap and no one wanted them. What does that say?

This is the biggest headscratcher with Pioli to me. They are both as inconsistant as ever. They just make more money.

Also, it's far more than the QB position. We don't have enough players with talent that care. It's not just the coach, the GM, and the QB. It's the rest of the god damn team too.

The sooner Pioli gets fired, the sooner the media starts pointing the finger at the players.
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Old 11-12-2012, 01:53 PM   #92
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Old 11-12-2012, 01:54 PM   #93
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I will no longer be a Chiefs fan if we draft Matt ****in Barkley
Great, I hope we draft him then....
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Old 11-12-2012, 01:56 PM   #94
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He tried to trade DJ and Bowe in 2009. If you were a GM who was "building your franchise on consistancy," why would you re-sign and franchise players that you tried to trade in your first year on the job? Guys you tried to trade because they were inconsistant? Furthermore, he tried to trade them for cheap and no one wanted them. What does that say?

This is the biggest headscratcher with Pioli to me. They are both as inconsistant as ever. They just make more money.

Also, it's far more than the QB position. We don't have enough players with talent that care. It's not just the coach, the GM, and the QB. It's the rest of the god damn team too.

The sooner Pioli gets fired, the sooner the media starts pointing it out.
You keep talking about how Haley wasted years of your life.

DJ and Bowe were inconsistent before, and it would make some sense to trade them.

But under Haley they played with a level of consistency that they had not played with before, and are not playing with now.

You say that you've been a fan for 37 years, and I really admire you inability to learn anything in those 37 years.

Accountability is required to get the most out of a team.

Haley demanded acountability, and the results were that he got consistent play from those guys.

Player's coaches never get those results.

I am not surprised that Romeo is getting the results from this team that he's getting.

The only surprise is that he's managed to get these results so quickly.
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Old 11-12-2012, 01:56 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by Woodsponge Chuckpants View Post
He tried to trade DJ and Bowe in 2009. If you were a GM who was "building your franchise on consistancy," why would you re-sign and franchise players that you tried to trade in your first year on the job? Guys you tried to trade because they were inconsistant? Furthermore, he tried to trade them for cheap and no one wanted them. What does that say?

This is the biggest headscratcher with Pioli to me. They are both as inconsistant as ever. They just make more money.

Also, it's far more than the QB position. We don't have enough players with talent that care. It's not just the coach, the GM, and the QB. It's the rest of the god damn team too.

The sooner Pioli gets fired, the sooner the media starts pointing the finger at the players.
You don't seem to understand. This is full-revolt. NO ONE wants to perform for Pissholi and his crack staff of crack smokers. Pissholi puts Cassel on the field, and the team says, "you know what? **** YOU. I'm done".

Guys like Flowers and DJ and Bowe, who were brought here by Herm, are well aware that KC is a great place to play with great fans. They are also aware that Scott Pissholi has completely scuttled the Arrowhead Boat, and they are ****ing fed up with it.

You can shout "contracts"! and "professionalism"! all ****ing day long Mr Upchuck, but the fact that these guys are 100% in tune with those of us who want to build a real team and win BIG long-term makes them the most cuddly mother****ers to ever put on a helmet in my book.
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Old 11-12-2012, 01:57 PM   #96
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He tried to trade DJ and Bowe in 2009.
Source?
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Old 11-12-2012, 02:04 PM   #97
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Pray that it's only 4 years. The damage Pioli has done might warrant a decade long fix.
The damage was done originally by Vermeil. He had to have veteran players. He wanted nothing to do with young players. Then Herm blew the whole thing up and Pioli has not been able to get talent back on the team via the draft. Which is what they stated they wanted to do.
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Old 11-12-2012, 02:08 PM   #98
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Source?
Not for you. If you don't remember, it says alot. Go write us something about how Allen Bailey is going to save the day now that Dorsey is on IR. Or, maybe even the obvious thread about how we should change to a one gap defense.
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Old 11-12-2012, 02:08 PM   #99
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The only surprise is that he's managed to get these results so quickly.
Last season's 3-game "We love Romeo" bullshit blinded a lot of people.

They would have lost two of those games instead of just one if Cassel had been under center.

Maybe even all three, because Cassel was beaten by Tebow once already that year.

Romeo should mail Kyle Orton a check for a million bucks as thanks for the extra retirement fund.
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KC has chosen to hitch their playoff hopes on 30+ year old game manager QB with obvious limitations with no real future prospect at signal caller on the roster.

There is no difference from what Dorsey is doing now than what the franchise has done for the last 25 years.
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Old 11-12-2012, 02:10 PM   #100
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Last season's 3-game "We love Romeo" bullshit blinded a lot of people.

They would have lost two of those games instead of just one if Cassel had been under center.

Maybe even all three, because Cassel was beaten by Tebow once already that year.

Romeo should mail Kyle Orton a check for a million bucks as thanks for the extra retirement fund.
QB is not that important.
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Old 11-12-2012, 02:13 PM   #101
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You don't seem to understand. This is full-revolt. NO ONE wants to perform for Pissholi and his crack staff of crack smokers. Pissholi puts Cassel on the field, and the team says, "you know what? **** YOU. I'm done".

Guys like Flowers and DJ and Bowe, who were brought here by Herm, are well aware that KC is a great place to play with great fans. They are also aware that Scott Pissholi has completely scuttled the Arrowhead Boat, and they are ****ing fed up with it.

You can shout "contracts"! and "professionalism"! all ****ing day long Mr Upchuck, but the fact that these guys are 100% in tune with those of us who want to build a real team and win BIG long-term makes them the most cuddly mother****ers to ever put on a helmet in my book.
1. You don't know that.

2. They are professionals and it is their job to play football to the best of their ability.

3. The players on this team probably hate your guts at this point in time.
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Old 11-12-2012, 02:14 PM   #102
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1. You don't know that.

2. They are professionals and it is their job to play football to the best of their ability.

3. The players on this team probably hate your guts at this point in time.


I'm sure they're loving yours. Moran.
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Old 11-12-2012, 02:15 PM   #103
Sweet Daddy Hate Sweet Daddy Hate is offline
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1. You don't know that.

2. They are professionals and it is their job to play football to the best of their ability.

3. The players on this team probably hate your guts at this point in time.

Nah, it is their current job to piss you off. Job well done!
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Sweet Daddy Hate < Tried to steal Andy's chili fries.Sweet Daddy Hate < Tried to steal Andy's chili fries.Sweet Daddy Hate < Tried to steal Andy's chili fries.Sweet Daddy Hate < Tried to steal Andy's chili fries.Sweet Daddy Hate < Tried to steal Andy's chili fries.Sweet Daddy Hate < Tried to steal Andy's chili fries.Sweet Daddy Hate < Tried to steal Andy's chili fries.Sweet Daddy Hate < Tried to steal Andy's chili fries.Sweet Daddy Hate < Tried to steal Andy's chili fries.Sweet Daddy Hate < Tried to steal Andy's chili fries.Sweet Daddy Hate < Tried to steal Andy's chili fries.
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Old 11-12-2012, 02:15 PM   #104
CoMoChief CoMoChief is online now
The Revolution Has Begun
 
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: KCMO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reerun_KC View Post
Great, I hope we draft him then....
if you think Barkley is this team's savior.
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CoMoChief threw an interception on a screen pass.CoMoChief threw an interception on a screen pass.CoMoChief threw an interception on a screen pass.CoMoChief threw an interception on a screen pass.CoMoChief threw an interception on a screen pass.CoMoChief threw an interception on a screen pass.CoMoChief threw an interception on a screen pass.CoMoChief threw an interception on a screen pass.CoMoChief threw an interception on a screen pass.CoMoChief threw an interception on a screen pass.CoMoChief threw an interception on a screen pass.
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Old 11-12-2012, 02:17 PM   #105
milkman milkman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cassel's Reckoning View Post
Last season's 3-game "We love Romeo" bullshit blinded a lot of people.

They would have lost two of those games instead of just one if Cassel had been under center.

Maybe even all three, because Cassel was beaten by Tebow once already that year.

Romeo should mail Kyle Orton a check for a million bucks as thanks for the extra retirement fund.
You'll recall, in the debate between you and I regarding Jeff Fisher, I said that the reason I would rather hire Crennel over Fisher is that Fisher would assure us mediocrity for the next decade or more, while Romeo's failure would at least offer us hope for the future when he was fired.

As I said, I expected this.

I am only surprised at how quickly these players stopped responding.
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