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Old 02-23-2014, 04:19 PM  
petegz28 petegz28 is offline
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Al Gore brings climate change message to Kansas City

Al Gore has been known for his climate change warnings since the 2006 film “An Inconvenient Truth.”

But the former vice president, speaking Saturday in Kansas City, cited many more recent examples how heavy use of fossil fuels is contributing to extreme weather events and trends, in his view.

Gore filled a Westin Crown Center ballroom with a 90-minute presentation, using photos and videos to illustrate a litany of floods, wildfires, torrential rains, droughts, dust storms, rising sea levels and increasing world temperatures.

To those attending the Folk Alliance International conference, he noted examples of flooding in locations both remote and closer to home, such as in Manitou Springs, Colo., where high water barreled down mountain highways last year, carrying cars along with it.

“They had never seen anything like this in Manitou Springs,” Gore said.

He cited the possibility of how flooding in Pakistan could destabilize that country, a nuclear power, and the possible effect that continuing drought in California might have on the world’s food supply.

“Think about that,” he said. “The Dust Bowl is coming back, quickly, unless we act.”

Gore presented animation from his 2006 film depicting water pushing into the streets of lower Manhattan — much mocked at the time, Gore said — followed by images of water filling New York City subway tunnels during Hurricane Sandy in October 2012.

Gore conceded the possible fatigue some may have with his warnings, as well as the possible sense of powerlessness as to what any one individual can do to affect what appear to be vast, unchangeable trends.

“Do we really have to do this and — if the answer is yes — can we do it?” Gore said, repeating two questions he routinely hears.

“The answer to both of those questions — spoiler alert — is ‘yes.’ ”

Gore cited what he considered the increasing momentum with which renewable energy technologies such as wind and solar power have been embraced.

Just as one telephone company study 25 years ago underestimated the huge increase in the use of cellphones, estimates on the acceptance of wind and solar technology also have been conservative, Gore said.

Among the countries or states turning to renewable energy strategies, Gore mentioned the Vatican’s increasing use of solar technology. Vatican City, Gore said, wants to be the first CO2-neutral sovereign city-state in the world.

“They have two advantages,” Gore said. “It is very small, and they have God on their side.”

He urged his listeners to act on an individual basis.

“The one missing ingredient may well be you, no kidding,” he said.

And, given how he was addressing a room filled with folk music admirers, Gore framed his remarks with references to two singers: Bob Dylan and the late Pete Seeger. Reciting a phrase from “The Times They Are a-Changin’ ” and later invoking Seeger’s memory, Gore urged those in attendance to write songs and spread a renewable energy message “all over this land.”

Folk music, he added, “played a positive role in resolving the central question in civil rights, as to what was truly right and truly wrong.”

Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/2014/02/22...#storylink=cpy
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Old 02-24-2014, 09:07 AM   #91
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What I find funny about climate change and the discussion of it is how it turned into a party line issue. Apparently Gore is some Super Liberal Tree Hugging Hippie for everyone just right of center to loathe, so these people just mock based on him being of different political takes from themselves?

Not saying Gore is necessarily right in all of his takes, but it really is a bit shortsighted to just discount what he offers up because of his party affiliation. It is an interesting topic worthy of study no matter your political leanings.
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Old 02-24-2014, 09:09 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by Bowser View Post
What I find funny about climate change and the discussion of it is how it turned into a party line issue. Apparently Gore is some Super Liberal Tree Hugging Hippie for everyone just right of center to loathe, so these people just mock based on him being of different political takes from themselves?

Not saying Gore is necessarily right in all of his takes, but it really is a bit shortsighted to just discount what he offers up because of his party affiliation. It is an interesting topic worthy of study no matter your political leanings.
I'm mocking him because what he claims above is simply wrong. I would say the same thing if he happened to be a Republican.
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Old 02-24-2014, 09:10 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by Donger View Post
How could sea levels rise without a corresponding melt of glacial ice?
Tectonic changes, less land ice and more sea ice.
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Old 02-24-2014, 09:15 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by Fish View Post
Tectonic changes, less land ice and more sea ice.
Sorry, I should have just said ice, not necessarily glacial.

So, less ice over land equals more liquid water.

More floating sea ice would, I think, raise levels by displacement, right? But wouldn't it eventually melt and basically equalize volumes?
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Old 02-24-2014, 09:23 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by aturnis View Post
Predictions can't honestly be made. ...
as a legit actual ****ing scientist, allow me to say then that global warming is, in no way, shape, or form, hypothesis-driven science nor should it be treated as such if IT CAN'T MAKE ANY ****ING PREDICTIONS.

that's not the way science works.
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Old 02-24-2014, 09:26 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by Fish View Post
Well I don't believe the tripe that Gore is spouting off either. The important thing is not to dismiss the idea in general just because an idiot politician is misinformed(Which is exactly what I see being done every time someone brings up Gore/Climate). And I extend that to any government recommended action at this time. The government has no business addressing climate change in the near future, outside of reasonable funding for further understanding.

I see "Global warming"/"Climate change" both used about the same to describe the same thing. I don't think most people realize there's actually a difference in the two. Too much misinformation/misunderstanding of the subject.
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Originally Posted by Bowser View Post
What I find funny about climate change and the discussion of it is how it turned into a party line issue. Apparently Gore is some Super Liberal Tree Hugging Hippie for everyone just right of center to loathe, so these people just mock based on him being of different political takes from themselves?

Not saying Gore is necessarily right in all of his takes, but it really is a bit shortsighted to just discount what he offers up because of his party affiliation. It is an interesting topic worthy of study no matter your political leanings.
I agree with Fish, particularly the bolded. But people who wholly believe climate change, but hold a view akin to Fish's , need to realize that they have vultures on their shoulder very much like Al Gore who are seeking to enact sweeping socialization to oversee and dictate an immense part of individual and societal activity.

It's not partisan, it's ideological

Your toilet paper
How often you flush
how much TV you watch
How often you cook food
your lights
oil
coal
natural gas
nuclear
how much you drive
where you live
where you work in relation to where you live
how much you surf the internet or do web searches
your lawn
if and where you golf, or play pickup sports


They want the government to pressure you to reduce all of these things and countless more, and for consumption of them to be much more expensive.

It's paternal and elitist, and it'll hurt the poor and middle class the worst.
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Old 02-24-2014, 09:26 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by Ebolapox View Post
as a legit actual ****ing scientist, allow me to say then that global warming is, in no way, shape, or form, hypothesis-driven science nor should it be treated as such if IT CAN'T MAKE ANY ****ING PREDICTIONS.

that's not the way science works.
now, don't take this as me being one that thinks climate change is bunk... there is some legit concerns where it is concerned. however, get the hypothesis-driven science part figured out before you say it can't and doesn't make predictions. understand where you're coming from before you make broad comments.
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Old 02-24-2014, 09:29 AM   #98
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I think he’s referring to the East Anglia e-mails about fixing data around a desired result.
That incident has been exaggerated quite a bit. Nothing in the stolen e-mails fixed any data around a desired result. They didn't remove any data from the report or distort it in any way.

Quote:
A fair reading of the e-mails reveals nothing to support the denialists' conspiracy theories. In one of the more controversial exchanges, UEA scientists sharply criticized the quality of two papers that question the uniqueness of recent global warming (S. McIntyre and R. McKitrick Energy Environ. 14, 751–771; 2003 and W. Soon and S. Baliunas Clim. Res. 23, 89–110; 2003) and vowed to keep at least the first paper out of the upcoming Fourth Assessment Report of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC). Whatever the e-mail authors may have said to one another in (supposed) privacy, however, what matters is how they acted. And the fact is that, in the end, neither they nor the IPCC suppressed anything: when the assessment report was published in 2007 it referenced and discussed both papers.

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal...l/462545a.html
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Old 02-24-2014, 09:30 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by Donger View Post
Sorry, I should have just said ice, not necessarily glacial.

So, less ice over land equals more liquid water.

More floating sea ice would, I think, raise levels by displacement, right? But wouldn't it eventually melt and basically equalize volumes?
Yes.
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Old 02-24-2014, 09:37 AM   #100
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Yes.
I was just reading that they think one of the reasons for the present rise, such as it is, is due to increased water temperatures leading to volume increase. That's neat and makes sense.
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Old 02-24-2014, 09:38 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by Baby Lee View Post
I agree with Fish, particularly the bolded. But people who wholly believe climate change, but hold a view akin to Fish's , need to realize that they have vultures on their shoulder very much like Al Gore who are seeking to enact sweeping socialization to oversee and dictate an immense part of individual and societal activity.

It's not partisan, it's ideological

Your toilet paper
How often you flush
how much TV you watch
How often you cook food
your lights
oil
coal
natural gas
nuclear
how much you drive
where you live
where you work in relation to where you live
how much you surf the internet or do web searches
your lawn
if and where you golf, or play pickup sports


They want the government to pressure you to reduce all of these things and countless more, and for consumption of them to be much more expensive.

It's paternal and elitist, and it'll hurt the poor and middle class the worst.
I fully acknowledge this, and it honestly scares me. I think this exact thing will hurt our future study and taint the underlying effort. Which is why I think it's so important to draw a very distinct separation between the politics of climate change and the actual science. Sadly, I still see the idiot politicians winning the battle before science has enough data to actually address what might need done. Governments are going to propose action before we're justified, and it's going to make people even more resistant to the overall idea.
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Old 02-24-2014, 09:52 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by Fish View Post
I fully acknowledge this, and it honestly scares me. I think this exact thing will hurt our future study and taint the underlying effort. Which is why I think it's so important to draw a very distinct separation between the politics of climate change and the actual science. Sadly, I still see the idiot politicians winning the battle before science has enough data to actually address what might need done. Governments are going to propose action before we're justified, and it's going to make people even more resistant to the overall idea.
And the push for 'deniers' to 'admit' climate change is a very 12 step thing they are trying to pull off. They are convinced that if there is a problem, government needs to work for a solution.

They're essentially banging the drum 'just admit, you're an alcoholic' to they can they corral us all into endless AA meetings.






Just admit, climate change is real

OK, you've beat me down.

Great, here's my omnibus bill to change your entire way of life before you kill us all with your present careless living of your life.
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Old 02-24-2014, 10:04 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by Fish View Post
I don't really pay much attention to the Al Gores of the climate change movement. Because they're misinformed idiots who's intentions are completely wrong.

I addressed the second question in the last post. The term wasn't replaced.
Why do you say that about Gore? Nobody thinks he's in the lab checking the data. I assume he's sincere about the issue and just saying what the experts tell him. It's an honest question--is he saying something different than the real experts?

He's not a perfect spokesman for the issue simply because he's a politician. And a D, which automatically earns the rejection of half the country who is skeptical of science in the first place.

But on the other hand, without his position, the issue may never have been talked about at all.
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Old 02-24-2014, 10:07 AM   #104
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To be honest, I believe that if/when we do propose a good method to address climate change, it will focus more on new/unique methods of energy conversion rather than just addressing the current consumption rate of energy. I see too many problems with emissions reduction being used as the main method to counter climate change. It's going to require something better.
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Old 02-24-2014, 10:14 AM   #105
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Of course there's climate change. There's always climate change. Problem is politicians are using an unproven notion that man has contributed to it in order to control Americans. The debate is far from over, but deniers of man caused climate change are called flat earthers or they attempt to silence http://tiny.iavian.net/1zcz . Al Gore wants cap and trade. If it ever passes, he will be one of the richest if not #1 people in the world. See Chicago Carbon Exchange. Unfortunately many scientists Made the leap years ago and only the most ethical have admitted their mistakes. University based science is based on agenda as much as science. Science is bended and manipulated to fit their narrative and agenda. NASA & NOAA feed from the federal teat and will gladly say there's Climate change. There's always climate change. They don't even have to lie.
The lie comes from Gore and progressives when they mention "man caused".
They can regulate and control all aspects of our lives in the name of "the greater good".
Just study history and you don't have to go that far back to find a case where socialists rounded people up for the "greater good".
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