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Old 04-11-2013, 06:44 AM   Topic Starter
Loneiguana Loneiguana is offline
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Conservatives find Government does help them earn money

Wyoming locals pick up tab for Yellowstone snowplowing
Sequester cuts idled federal plows and threatened the park's opening day. Even though most here favor limited government, this isn't quite what they had in mind.


By Mark Z. Barabak, Los Angeles Times
April 6, 2013, 7:00 p.m.
CODY, Wyo. For many, the federal budget ax that fell last month has meant a few nicks here and there. For Joe Kondelis, it's sliced a lot deeper.

After stewing for days, the 53-year-old opened his wallet and delivered a $2,000 check to the Cody Chamber of Commerce to help pay for snowplowing at Yellowstone National Park. It wasn't easy. Cash is scarce once Yellowstone shuts down for the winter.

But after automatic spending cuts idled the National Park Service plows and threatened to delay opening day for two weeks two weeks that could cost his beer distributorship $100,000 in sales Kondelis felt he had no choice.

"You live and die by the tourist market," he said beneath a framed picture of the Budweiser logo, which loomed overhead like a portrait of the family patriarch.

Fearing an economic disaster people planning their vacations sometimes hear just the words "closed" and "Yellowstone" and there goes the whole summer the chambers in Cody and Jackson Hole raised $170,000 to pay for the state to step in and fire up its snowplows. The work began last week and, barring a major storm, the park's east and south entrances will open on time in early May.

The story could end there, a happy tale of small-town pluck. Many in Cody are proud of how the community of fewer than 10,000 rallied to save the tourist season from sequestration, as the $85 billion in cuts are called.

"It kicked us right in the pants," said Mike Darby, a partner in the Irma Hotel, which was built in 1902 by "Buffalo Bill" Cody himself. "And thank God we rose up and kicked them back. We did."

But a weave of contradictions surrounds the episode, reflecting the tension between self-sufficiency and codependence, between these Westerners' stated desire for a smaller, more limited government and reliance on the services that people have come to expect from far off, little-loved Washington, D.C.

"We all want to cut the deficit but don't want to sacrifice the lifestyle that money makes possible," said Warren Murphy, a retired clergyman and one of the few avowed progressives in this deeply conservative part of a deeply conservative state. "Sequester is just a small sample of what you get."

Dan Wenk, the superintendent of Yellowstone, is the face of the federal government around Cody and his popularity underscores the truth that it's harder to dislike a neighbor than some faceless bureaucrat inside the Beltway. When the cuts hit, Wenk had to slice $1.75 million from his $35-million budget and do it with the fiscal year just about half-over.

He trimmed his payroll. He scaled back travel and training programs. Finally, he decided to idle the Park Service snowplows for two weeks, saving $30,000 a day and leaving it to the spring thaw to help clear more than 300 miles of roadway. The idea, Wenk said, was to ensure there was money left to keep Yellowstone open throughout the peak summer months. "We cut the budget in a way we thought was absolutely the least impactful," he said.

Locals were nearly unanimous in their praise for Wenk and the way he worked with community leaders and state officials to find a solution that got the plows rolling. It is a lesson, they said, that Washington should heed.

"We just talked it through," said Claudia Wade, marketing director for the county tourism office. "Everybody came to the table and said, 'How can we work this out?' Not, "Whose fault is it?'"

There are limits, however, to that goodwill. Wade and others insist the fundraising drive, or Park Service bailout, or whatever people choose to call it, was a one-time thing. "It was an important point that we'd only do it this time," said Scott Balyo, executive director of the Cody chamber.

Even so, many worry about precedent. Kondelis, who works alongside his wife and two sons in their beverage business, explained why he contributed: "I believe in this community and we need to step forward like everybody else. But my biggest issue was the politics isn't going to change. So next year, they're going to say, 'Oh, you guys figured it out, you guys came to the table, so this cut was good.'"

The relationship between Washington and the West has always been fraught. The region's proud creed of independence ignores the crucial role the federal government plays in its prosperity. At the same time, few things grate more than the presumption that a distant landlord can better manage the land than the people who live on it. (The federal government controls about half of the acreage in Wyoming.)

People in Cody are used to dealing with natural disasters, like the wildfires or heavy snow that occasionally close Yellowstone and sucker-punch the economy. But this crisis felt artificial, man-made, and thus avoidable.

It's not that residents don't want to reduce the deficit. Washington needs "to grow the economy, not the government," said Jay Linderman, who owns an Italian restaurant on Cody's main drag and grudgingly gave $200 to pay for plowing. What rankles locals is the indiscriminate nature of the sequester, which cut programs across the board without weighing individual merits.

But therein lies the perennial rub: Cuts that are welcomed in the abstract are not always appreciated when they hit home. And everything the government does, however small, touches somebody.

"If it's a national park, it shouldn't be our burden to operate," said Bob Brandt, manager of the Cody Hotel, which sits on the main highway to Yellowstone, about 50 miles away. His business contributed $2,500 to the snowplow fund.

If not entitlement, locals at least share a feeling that Washington has obligations it mustn't slough off, even as spending declines.

"You pay your taxes to get certain services," said Bruce Eldredge, executive director of the Buffalo Bill Historical Center, a world-class museum in the center of town, which delivered a $10,000 check to the chamber. "We would, I think, probably argue as a community that we pay our federal taxes to make sure the park is open at a specific time."

For his part, Wenk assumes the cuts made under sequester represent "the new normal." Yellowstone's budget has been shrinking for the last few years, even as the number of visitors has grown. Looking ahead to next year, Wenk said everything including the snowplowing schedule is on the table.

The state, meantime, has seized on the fundraising publicity to get an early jump on its summer tourism campaign. As a crowd cheered and cameras recorded the scene last week, big yellow tractors began chewing through the snow, bearing placards with the promotional theme "Yellowstone or Bust."

From: http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...,5412062.story

/So I'm supposed to feel bad for the guy who had to spend $2,000 of his own money to help guarantee $100,000 in sales? Yeah, it sure does suck that the Federal Government wasn't there to help out that guys profit margin with my money.
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Old 04-11-2013, 07:11 AM   #2
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So basically, the free market has to now make calculations on what projects make economic sense and which ones don't? That's incredible! A true revelation here.
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Old 04-11-2013, 08:28 AM   #3
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Is there some injustice I'm supposed to recognize? Looks to me like natural market forces are kicking in making adjustments to the new economic reality.
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Old 04-11-2013, 09:21 AM   #4
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Huge news. Big government impacts conservatives too. Thanks for posting.
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Old 04-11-2013, 04:50 PM   #5
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Cool, Glad you see you guys in agreement that this quote:
"Government does not create jobs" -Mitt Romney

is wrong, and that indeed, the government can create jobs through spending.

Perhaps now we can pass some of those infrastructure job bills?
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Old 04-11-2013, 05:32 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
Cool, Glad you see you guys in agreement that this quote:
"Government does not create jobs" -Mitt Romney

is wrong, and that indeed, the government can create jobs through spending.

Perhaps now we can pass some of those infrastructure job bills?
Are you high or something? The snow plow guy got paid.

However, they make a great point. If it's a national park, it should be that federal government's responsiblity to pay for maintenance. They should turn it back over to the state if they can't manage it.
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Old 04-12-2013, 06:21 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
Are you high or something? The snow plow guy got paid.

However, they make a great point. If it's a national park, it should be that federal government's responsiblity to pay for maintenance. They should turn it back over to the state if they can't manage it.
Did you miss this part?

"He trimmed his payroll. He scaled back travel and training programs. Finally, he decided to idle the Park Service snowplows for two weeks, saving $30,000 a day and leaving it to the spring thaw to help clear more than 300 miles of roadway. "

Now, compare it with this part:

"But after automatic spending cuts idled the National Park Service plows and threatened to delay opening day for two weeks two weeks that could cost his beer distributorship $100,000 in sales Kondelis felt he had no choice."

Now,let us think about it. An investment from the government into clearing roads has created and hopefully will create in the future up 100,000 dollars for ONE business.

Then, we read this "$170,000 to pay for the state to step in and fire up its snowplows." And we can assume that is around the cost of just snow removal. So, a government investment of 170,000 dollars into this one community can stimulate over 100,000 for ONE business. How many businesses benefit from this? I'd say from reading the article more than three. If only three businesses earn 100,000 dollars each from a 170,000 dollar government investment, I'd say that is a successful investment.

So in conclusion, we have learned from this article that government can stimulate local economies.

Also, before you congratulate the free market for solving this, ask yourself one question. Did every bushiness that will benefited from snow removal chip in to pay for snow removal? Can we be positive every business did? Because if just one business did not pay for snow removal, then that business is benefiting from others without contributing. That could be considered socialism, or worse, freeloading.
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Old 04-12-2013, 07:00 AM   #8
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So in conclusion, we have learned from this article that government can stimulate local economies.
So in conclusion, you omit the part, that the govt took money from individuals to stimulate someone else's local economy to the exclusion of others (where some of the money was taken). All that does is move money around that could have and would have moved around privately. It simply crowds out private sector activity by denying it the funds it needs to recover making a bad economic situation last longer—just as FDR made the previous depression last longer.

You bought the smoke and mirrors.
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Old 04-12-2013, 07:22 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
Did you miss this part?

"He trimmed his payroll. He scaled back travel and training programs. Finally, he decided to idle the Park Service snowplows for two weeks, saving $30,000 a day and leaving it to the spring thaw to help clear more than 300 miles of roadway. "

Now, compare it with this part:

"But after automatic spending cuts idled the National Park Service plows and threatened to delay opening day for two weeks two weeks that could cost his beer distributorship $100,000 in sales Kondelis felt he had no choice."

Now,let us think about it. An investment from the government into clearing roads has created and hopefully will create in the future up 100,000 dollars for ONE business.

Then, we read this "$170,000 to pay for the state to step in and fire up its snowplows." And we can assume that is around the cost of just snow removal. So, a government investment of 170,000 dollars into this one community can stimulate over 100,000 for ONE business. How many businesses benefit from this? I'd say from reading the article more than three. If only three businesses earn 100,000 dollars each from a 170,000 dollar government investment, I'd say that is a successful investment.

So in conclusion, we have learned from this article that government can stimulate local economies.

Also, before you congratulate the free market for solving this, ask yourself one question. Did every bushiness that will benefited from snow removal chip in to pay for snow removal? Can we be positive every business did? Because if just one business did not pay for snow removal, then that business is benefiting from others without contributing. That could be considered socialism, or worse, freeloading.
Do you really think you're making some kind of grand point with this?

1. Conservatives don't deny that government built (and maintained) infrastructure is a foundation upon which much private sector commerce runs.

2. Just because a specific piece of government built (and maintained) infrastructure exists and supports commerce, doesn't mean that that specific piece of infrastructure couldn't have been accomplished more effectively and more efficiently through the private sector.

3. Just because a specific piece of government built (and maintained) infrastructure exists and supports commerce, doesn't mean that it's an effective, net-positive contributor to our economy.
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Old 04-12-2013, 06:51 AM   #10
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Are you high or something? The snow plow guy got paid.

However, they make a great point. If it's a national park, it should be that federal government's responsiblity to pay for maintenance. They should turn it back over to the state if they can't manage it.
Seems like waiting for snow to melt the old-fashioned way rather than spending $30K PER DAY isn't any kind of mismanagement.

Don't think the Feds make a profit on the park, so they have no obligation / need to get it open on any particular date.
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Old 04-11-2013, 05:32 PM   #11
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Wow. The people who benefit economically having to pay for something instead of having it subsidized by the federal government. This is a great story showing how things *should* be.
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Old 04-11-2013, 08:48 PM   #12
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Wow. The people who benefit economically having to pay for something instead of having it subsidized by the federal government. This is a great story showing how things *should* be.
No shit. I read the article and laughed at the OP.
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Old 04-12-2013, 06:25 AM   #13
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Wow. The people who benefit economically having to pay for something instead of having it subsidized by the federal government. This is a great story showing how things *should* be.
Sure, if you can prove every business contributed to the payment for snow removal. Are you positive that happened? Also, read through the article again. How many different amounts were contributed? Did every bussiness contribute fairly? Did some more than others? Will some businesses earn more money than others while chipping in less? Can we be completely sure that no one is gaming the system?


Because through taxes and the government, I can be positive that every business that benefits from infrastructure helped pay for that infrastructure.

Last edited by Loneiguana; 04-12-2013 at 06:33 AM.. Reason: added to it
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Old 04-12-2013, 07:24 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
Sure, if you can prove every business contributed to the payment for snow removal. Are you positive that happened? Also, read through the article again. How many different amounts were contributed? Did every bussiness contribute fairly? Did some more than others? Will some businesses earn more money than others while chipping in less? Can we be completely sure that no one is gaming the system?


Because through taxes and the government, I can be positive that every business that benefits from infrastructure helped pay for that infrastructure.
No, you can't be positive about that. Furthermore, even if they did, you can't be positive that they contributed fairly, evenly, or without gaming the system.
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Old 04-12-2013, 06:30 AM   #15
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So the govt fails to maintain its property,private citizens step in and do the work........and you blame who?
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