Originally Posted by Messier (Post 10501676)

Science will never say, god created the universe, because it can't. Science must stay to what is in the natural world. Once god enters the equation, you're talking faith and believe. I don't for a second think you can't have both, but you'll never come to the scientific conclusion that god created the universe.

And this needs to leave the lounge.

Originally Posted by SeeingRed (Post 10501719)

Einstein quote: "There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."

Originally Posted by Dave Lane (Post 10501724)

I agree almost everything is a miracle, except ticks, **** them. It's a natural miracle, but miraculous none the less.

Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ (Post 10501697)

the big bang theory does say that our universe, as we know it, all came out of a tiny particle that exploded. So, this tiny particle existed in space and in time, right? Or, it didn't, right? Regardless, out of this tiny particle came all matter and energy, so again, this is a huge problem/issue/question because out of one tiny particle came everything, and the universe is massive. I understand that the scientific community is still trying to figure it all out, especially at the quantum level and at levels that are basically unmeasurable, but that being said, it's still somewhat of a faith based system to believe everything came out of one tiny particle becasue it breaks all the laws of science that these same scientist claim are essential to understanding the universe.

Originally Posted by WhiteWhale (Post 10501730)

What "laws of science" does this theory break?

Tell me what they are and what theory these laws you speak of are attached to. I think you're pulling that out of your rear.

Originally Posted by Dave Lane (Post 10501716)

Okay let's agree to disagree. There has never been nothing. There is no nothing anywhere at any time. It's hard for man to wrap his limited brain around because of how poorly the human mind works. All we know from our very very limited view of the universes is how things work on earth. Beginnings and ends. Therefore this pattern must be cast on the universe.

Just because our minds seek patterns is no reason to assume this pattern is true everywhere. There was something before the Big Bang probably lots of something's. What it was we don't have anything more than speculation because of the limits of our minds and instruments.

Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ (Post 10501735)

the laws of thermodynamics for one.

Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ (Post 10501661)

true, but correct me if I'm wrong, scientific laws are there for a reason, that is, they are provable, varifiable and accepted facts. You cannot create matter from nothing according to scientific laws, that's impossible. However, in order to justify the theory of the big bang, and by proxy the theory of evolution, people like Krauss are resorting to what is little more than a discussion on magic.

My whole involvement in this thread came about because the Dave Lane poster said it's easier to explain the existence of the universe if you take the supernatural out of the equation. But then when you do that how do you explain everything coming out of nothing? It takes a lot of speculation, imagination and pure fiction to explain something coming out of nothing, yet people like Dave Lane say it's easier to do this than say "God created the universe?"

This is called being a hypocrit where I come from.

Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ (Post 10501697)

the big bang theory does say that our universe, as we know it, all came out of a tiny particle that exploded. So, this tiny particle existed in space and in time, right? Or, it didn't, right? Regardless, out of this tiny particle came all matter and energy, so again, this is a huge problem/issue/question because out of one tiny particle came everything, and the universe is massive. I understand that the scientific community is still trying to figure it all out, especially at the quantum level and at levels that are basically unmeasurable, but that being said, it's still somewhat of a faith based system to believe everything came out of one tiny particle becasue it breaks all the laws of science that these same scientist claim are essential to understanding the universe.

Originally Posted by Dave Lane (Post 10501724)

I agree almost everything is a miracle, except ticks, **** them. It's a natural miracle, but miraculous none the less.

Originally Posted by Fish (Post 10501750)

That's not necessarily true. We've never witnessed matter created from nothing. But some science says it's certainly plausible. Quantum theory says it's possible. Quantum theory says that the Big Bang could have spontaneously emerged from a random quantum fluctuation in an simple quantum vacuum. Which satisfies quantum theory science. So you cannot say that science has no answer. At that point, you have to understand the relationship between quantum theory and relative theory.

Originally Posted by Rausch (Post 10501774)

I like the idea of a "white hole."

Originally Posted by Fish (Post 10501783)

Racist.