Exactly.

You have failed to prove otherwise.

Baldwin was invisible. Still is. However, if you just watch Bowe's snaps, time how quickly he comes out of breaks and compare that to this year, there is a difference. Moreso with Bowe than Baldwin, as that guy worked his ass off physically this offseason. He still is just not explosive at all. Can build up speed over a long distance but Jesus. People should never ever ever compare him to Julio. ROFL

This can and probably is attributable to his holdout. (Bowe's sloweness coming out of breaks) I have no idea. I haven't really analysed games this season since SD, so Bowe has probably gotten back to normal. Just something I thought you would enjoy. This isn't something I've researched heavily, although I probably can over winter break. Thanksgiving maybe, I'm not entirely sure I'll have time though.

FTR, I only recall looking at Bowe's breaks on intermediate routes (corners, digs, posts, 12 yd curls, etc.)

Okay, you're right: Haley was a GREAT strength and conditioning coach.

He sucked at everything else, especially on Sundays.

This team is the end result of a few things.

No quarterback
players coach following a disciplinarian
unimaginative play calling
lacking mental toughness

Tell me that Haley wouldn't have won the division for the second year in a row if Pioli had brought in Hasselback instead of Palko.

That, right there, is the difference between Haley getting fired and Haley ridding this team of Cassel and possibly drafting a kid like Dalton to groom under Hasselback.

The problem here is/was Romeo and Pioli, not Haley.

Accountability.

Haley won 5 games before he was fired with less than Romeo has right now, and that was because he held players accountable.

He wasn't a good game day coach (yet), and his playcalling was questionable, but the team gave effort because he demanded it.

I though they looked like complete and utter dogshit in 2011.

Until he was fired.

The Chiefs looked like a different team against the Packers, Broncos and Raiders than they did when Haley was the head coach.

And yes, unfortunately, that led to Crennel's hiring.

I think Haley was perceived as a bad game day coach because he was saddled to a QB he didn't believe in.

When a man (Haley) is without water (a QB) and walking through the desert (the NFL), he might have to drink his own pee (fake punt with Brodie Croyle) to stay alive.

People that have water whenever they want see a man drinking his own pee as crazy.

Unfortunately, Haley had to drink his own pee a lot because Pioli wouldnt allow him a glass of water.

Haley was perceived as a bad gameday coach because...he was a bad gameday coach.

This is being romanticized just a bit much.

The offense looked like shit with Haley, but then Haley was working with Cassel and Palko, and Crennel worked with Orton.

But the team played harder for Haley than they are for Crennel.

They might not have liked him, but they didn't quit on him.

Kyle Orton = glass of water.

Should I post the quotes of Tamba Hali and other players and coaches talking about Kyle Orton after those games?

They straight up threw Cassel under the bus.

"Its been nice to have a quarterback back there that can extend drives and make teams respect our passing game. Its been a long time since weve had that and it helps our defense a lot" -Tamba Hali.

Shit, Romeo even said that he owes his head coaching job to Kyle Orton.

We won 2 of 3 last year as a response to the Haley-hate.

That alone fueled this team to care.

The fail that followed was due to losing talent, adding questionable (at best) talent, and following up fail at coach with fail at coach...

7-41

3-48

Haley was unorganized and sucked.

End of story.

He still has a lot to learn. No question and the same can be said about EVERY play caller in the NFL.

But, I dont think its fair to judge him on his time with such a limited passer as Matt Cassel.

They won 2 out of 3 because of a more competent QB.

Anyone that thinks that had anything to do with Crennel is drinking the Kool aid.

A bit would be a massive understatement.

Like the size of Jupiter.

That's the kind of mindset that leads to discussions with stuff like "it's not fair to judge Cassel until his line is better". I hope someday we as a fanbase can move away from that kind of stuff. We're so predisposed to settle.

The team got a shot of energy from having a quarterback under center that could play the position effectively and because they didnt have to worry about big bad Haley.

Not because Romeo was some miracle worker.

Even Romeo said that more than once.

FTR, I think that type of new found energy will be realized again if we draft a kid like Geno Smith or Matt Barkley...both are better than Kyle Orton.

:clap:

How do you think this team would have played in 2011 if we had signed a guy like Hasselbback or drafted a guy like Dalton to take over for Cassel when he got hurt?

Do you think Haley would have still gotten fired?

Of course not.

The guy made chicken salad out of chicken shit in 2010 and you can only hide a turn for so long before people start asking why it stinks.

I think the results would have been virtually the same. I think Haley was more a part of the problem than he was a victim of circumstance. I think 2010 was an aberration for him as much as it was for Cassel. And I think things have gotten so bad right now that it's easy to take a rosy view of a time that really wasn't very good in its own right.

I also think there are many more issues behind the scenes than just Haley or just Cassel. We're oversimplifying what I think amounts to a pretty complex failure.

What's really sad is that through watching/hearing about Haselbeck's relationship w/ Locker and what a wonderful mentor he's been for him, I realize we could have had that. Hasselbeck could have made Dalton even better than he is now.

But if Haley was solely responsible for Cassel's breakout year in 2010, what went wrong in 2011?

If he was so great and commanded so much respect, why did the defense give up 41 and 45 points to start the season?

I'm not trying to hammer you personally but Todd Haley was a ****ing joke.

When your team gives up 41 and 48 to start the season, it doesn't matter who is playing quarterback

Ehh, IDK. Our D struggles when our O fails to put together long drives, even if they don't put up points. Defenses typically can't be expected to be left on the field the entire game.

I think that with Hasselbeck, this team doesn't give up 41 or 48 to start the season. Probably still lose but it is entirely speculation.

Haley, the Great Motivator, had this team so flat the first two weeks that Peyton Manning would have been bummed out and underperformed.

This shit about Haley is nothing more than a ****ing myth.

Yeah I am not sure you can assume that if the offense was doing something that the D plays like that. Lets not forget that some of the points and drives that drove the scores up came from turnovers or horrible field position.

Kyle Orton was a huge reason that the team picked up at the end of last year. At the very least you need to mention him. You can't just say well the team played better after Haley so obviously the team responded to his departure.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/pWdd6_ZxX8c" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Wut

The second paragraph was directed at others, not you. Basically, I was trying to say "ditto" in response to your previous post.

Well, then, awesome. :p

Haley was an outside the box thinker and his approach to the lockout shortened offseason was to take it slow and build towards getting up to normal speed gradually. It was by design to avoid injuries and by sheer bad luck, he still lost 3 of his best players to season ending ACL tears.

The slow start was by design and if Moeaki, Charles and Berry don't go down...the season plays out differently.

Another thought, where would we be if we hadn't fired Herm? I was as pleased as anyone when he went, but you have to admit he knew how to draft. I think the talent would be higher at this point...

What if.......? What is the point in that game. If Herm was so talented he would be on staff somewhere.

What ever was Haleys reasoning for HCing a bad team....Does it matter?

Just give me a FO and Coaching staff with players that leave it on the field every game.

Don't care what their names are or what type of O or D they run. Let's be consistent playoff/SB contenders. Anything/anyone that cause the Chiefs to come up short..."Get a Rope"

He drafted the majority of the bright spots on this team and some that have left (Carr for example). I didn't like Herm as a HC but he could spot talent. Something Pioli and RC don't seem to be able to do.

ROFL Haley was a legend in his own mind. He tried to "revolutionize the game" with his stupid training camp and playcalling system for example. It wasn't thinking outside the box. It was arrogance. It was going against what every HC has ever done in history.

This is why he got fired. For doing crap like that. There was no ****ing conspiracy. He just sucked and was a dumbass.

I'd be freaking ecstatic if, somehow, the Chiefs could lure Haley away from the Steelers and make him our head coach again......... and then fire his ass....again.

I'd like to take a second and laugh at those who hate Todd Haley and remind you that our resident reerun, blackbob, shares the same opinion as you.

Have a nice day.

:)

It would be really funny to see Herm and Haley coaching together and having a good cop / bad cop sort of thing going on. ROFL

Because Crennel is a joke and a fraud of a HC and for sure over ****ing rated as a DC...

People who defended Crennels defense or him being the HC can go Dane themselves with a pogo stick.

No. I would have been good with firing Scott. Give Haley his QB of choice and a couple of more years to see what he could do, but a short leash.

Because every coach in history has had to deal with one week after losing most of camp to a lockout.

It's clear to everyone, even those that support him, that the approach didn't work, though the reasoning was good.

I don't think Haley should've been fired. I think the reports of Haley asking Pioli why he's the coach if he's not allowed to coach are true. Pioli's a control freak, nobody is going to be successful under those circumstances. Haley's a young offensive minded coach that if given the opportunity would've kept Orton and sure as hell never would've entertained the idea of bringing Quinn in.
The team is undisciplined, the coach is hapless, the owner is absent and the general manager is creating an environment that breeds resentment from the top down and is not conducive the attracting good free agents. - The chiefs suck ass.

The reasoning was bad and it was apparent after a week. He failed or refused to adapt and that was another one of his major flaws. His unwillingness to change was part of what cost him his job.

I could go on for years about haley but, I will give it a rest. He is gone from KC forever.

I don't feel bad about it. Haley was a boob of a Head Coach. I don't hate Haley though.

Herm should not be anything but a scout in any NFL organization. I think he worked very hard as a player but does not hold his own players to that standard. For that reason alone he cannot be a coach.

I'd take him as the head of defensive scouting in a New York ****ing minute.

I really don't give a flying **** what you think, Dave.

I don't "hate" Todd Haley. He was an ineffective head coach that couldn't get along well with others. He had three different offensive coordinators (four, if you include him) in two and a half seasons. He had two different defensive coordinators because quite frankly, Clancy Pendergast sucked ass and should never have been hired.

He was a complete dud during his press conferences and had no personality. He visibly argued with coaches and players on the sidelines during games and was fired, with cause, for acting like a jackass against the Jets.

His overall record was 19-26 and not one player made any lasting improvements during his tenure. This "Haley Worship" is ****ing stupid.

The guy was a ****ing loser and a huge mistake. Good riddance.

DJ sucks now?

LMAO Take a Xanax.

what a load of shit

**** you

What a bucnh of no-nothing asshats, defending a piece of shit coach that left with a losing record.

You mother****ers deserve what you get.

thanks Bro.... I still would take Haley over Crennel any day, but then again I am racist....:clap:

Remember how late we were that year in being able to put a staff together because we had to wait until after the SB. Haley was forced to keep Gailey. There was no one left for a DC. He was forced to hire Weiss after that.
Geez I know the guy wasn't all that but he wasn't exactly dealt a very good hand.

I'm not sorry Haley is gone. He wasn't a good head coach. He was better than Romeo however. Both would look smarter minus Cassel though. The biggest problem is the GM.

agree 100%

Yeah I am not sure how many people are actually saying he was a good coach. I think most are just saying that the issue during the Haley era was Pioli and Cassel #s 1 and 2. Not many coaches could do much with that.

Other teams have hired super bowl coaches without having any problems. Haley was totally unprepared, probably because the idea of working for him made people throw up in their mouths just thinking about it.

Bullshit.

There is absolutely NO ****ING WAY that Clancy ****ing Pendergast was the ONLY man in the United States capable of being the defensive coordinator for the Chiefs in 2009.

It was laughable then and it's even more laughable now.

I don't hate haley, the simple reality is that regardless of the situation at QB or GM he didn't do anything at all during his tenure that would have justified retaining him. All the if's, and's or but's in the world don't change that.

I'm so glad you chose to speak up after all these decades of rooting for shitty Chiefs football you ****ing moron.

The subject isn't Haley versus Crennel versus Herm.

They all suck ass.

you new here?

Cause if not, you stupid for this post...

True... Depressing when you think about it.

Go **** yourself you stupid inbred ****.

If you choose to disagree with me, you ****ing maggot, at least tell us why.

On second thought, I understand why you didn't.

It's because you're a crayon eating reerun.

your friend -- he's a turd

Tell us ALL why I'm wrong, okay, Dildo?

Or better yet, shut your ****ing mouth.

because you overstate shit constantly -- you are dramatic as ****ing hell.

HEY!

You can call my my mother a whore, insult my children, hell I don't even mind if you **** my wife in the ass, but you talk about Clancy Pendergast again....Well we're going to have a problem.

the thing is you are full of shit. not sure why it wasn't clear the first ten times I told you.

:facepalm:

Keep going, Moron.

Everyone needs to be witness to your dumbassery.

LMAO

Get back to ****ing your mother.

milkman & myself, bosschief & Dave, other posters here have pointed out how you manipulate to make your points. you're a ****ing liar dane. I hate liars. but what the hell, I don't know you other than the bullshit you spew here so don't take it personally. but here in this domain, you lie like a ****ing dog when you want to.

Once more, GO **** YOURSELF

Actually, Dane and I have had a pretty civil debate.

I haven't pointed out any manipulation.

I have stated strongly my disagreement, but I respect his opinions enough to keep it civil.

Oh, and he apparently respects mine enough to keep it civil on his end.

whatever floats your autoerotic asphyxiation sweety