Yes.

Probably neither. DM has already said that he won’t mortgage the future for short-term success, and they won’t trade their 2 top prospects, which is what it would take to get a long-term solution.

Royals Nation ‏@RoyalsNation

"If Jeff Francoeur is blocking Wil Myers you have a front office problem"--Keith Law on 610. #Royals

Dude, whatever, we can not be so hasty to replace the best team captain we've had since Mike Sweeney.

Icwatudidthere

I am talking more or less about a guy like Kevin Millwood, for instance. The Mariners probably wouldn't be able to get anything better than a fringe prospect for him or a backup/possible starter type of player.

Would someone like Dyson or Bourgeois be up for trade for a guy like Millwood?

No, Our Time. /elbow surgeons

So - did he blow his elbow last night?

This is just freaking crazy.

OK, time to move forward......

Anyone interested in King Felix?

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/f...eficial-061912

Would anyone do this deal? If not this deal, what would you be willing to offer?

We have a surplus of minor league talent that we can leverage to acquire talent that would never sign with us in free agency.

I doubt I'd do Butler+Myers+Odorizzi for Felix, but I think that's a reasonable starting point to negotiate from.

We specialize in trying to get the O'Sullivans of the world, so why not?

What we need to do, however, is trade real "pitching prospects" for a real ML arm.

ACLs and UCLs, Kansas City's greatest enemies.

Pitching is the currency of baseball, but we treat our ****ing farm system like a trust that can't be touched.

With Felix's numbers this year, drop in velocity, cost and length of contract remaining I really don't think we should give up those three pieces. Hell I may be an idiot but I wouldn't give up 2/3. One of those guys and some other solid prospects sounds better to me.

Felix is 26 years old. I think he still has many Cy Young-quality years ahead of him.

Probably so. However, it would be asinine to weaken the immediate club by trading a premium, ML bat. Trade prospects.

So would you keep Butler over Myers? Myers could be a premium MLB bat right now and would also provide value in the field.

Even at this best, Butler is still only a 2-3 WAR player due to not having any defensive value.

I keep both and trade pitching prospects. I don't want to part with Odo, for example, but I would if it came nut cutting time.

While we hope that he has top-of-the-rotation stuff, we know that King Felix does.

Furthermore, I think that Starling could be a key cog in any package, and I'd gladly move this player for a solid return, and there was no one who wanted us to draft him more than me.

**** this season. stand pat.

Any moves this season would have to be done with an understanding that next year should be the time to go all in. If we're not seriously competing in 2013/2014, might as well give it up because it's just not going to happen.

if KC were to acquire a good pitcher, we would essentially be replacing Paulino. If we acquired another, we'd essentially be replacing Duffy... so we're back to square one at that point.. why give up prospects where even if we were to acquire 2 Major league ready starting pitchers, we'd still be short on starting pitching. Don't give up the future... cause in 2 more months this bullpen is going to start to break down and we'll be long out of the race. KC needs to add at the very least THREE Good Starting Pitchers to even think about contending - that ain't a happenin'.

Why are we so ****ed as KC fans?

Shitty owners and GMs? Check.

Shitty pitchers and QBs? Check.

3 ACL and UCL tears? Check.

Because pitching prospects don't exist. So if you can exchange them for real ML production, you do it yesterday.

And our division is shit, and we have a real chance to compete. These opportunities shouldn't be passed on.

acquiring 3 Major league pitchers is going to take a shit ton of our farm to make happen. Are you ready to bleed it dry? I can guarantee you Dayton isn't.

Rany justifiably raising the question about the training staff. Check his recent tweets:

www.ranyontheroyals.com

Getz, Betancourt, and Falu are all better than him at this point.

Giavotella was given his chance at the beginning of the year, and again when Getz got hurt, and he didn't do anything with his opportunity either time. The "I'm just gonna stare at three consecutive pitches here with the game on the line" at-bat was the last straw.

Dayton is largely a ****ing idiot when it comes to assembling a ML roster, so I'm not too concerned about his opinion, to be honest.

We're going to need starting pitching, whether we're competing this year or any time in the next three. We're not going to develop all components of a ML staff, so...Will Glass buy it? Doubt it. Thus, we're going to have to trade prospects. If an opportunity presents itself, you must make the move.

Otherwise, we'll continue to be mediocre at best.

Cuthbert/Dwyer/Broxton/Francouer/Will Smith/and another minor league pitcher other than Odorizzi to Seattle for Felix... make it hap'n cap'n.

Cuthbert is blocked by Moose anyway

Dwyer and Smith are decent pitching prospects (even though they don't exist Deez)... plus one (other than Odorizzi)

Broxton is at his ceiling for trade value

Francouer has a winning smile and the way for Myers is cleared

FTR, I didn't mean to come off like an ass in the above post, but I'm just sick of DM treating every single prospect like a golden ****ing goose. Quit telling us that pitching is the currency and then demonstrate that you're scared (or incapable) of spending it.

Give me your honest opinion on my trade scenario Deez.

I think Seattle would laugh in your face.

I think this is way too much filler to get Felix.

Seattle will want prospects if they trade Felix because that will start a total rebuild, so Frenchy and Broxton aren't valuable to them.

Dwyer and Will Smith are fine filler pieces, but Seattle will want at least 2 premium pieces, and I guarantee they will want at least one of Myers, Starling, or Odorizzi.

Maybe a package like Odorizzi, Cuthbert, Ventura, and Dwyer. Even that might be underwhelming to them though.

they would laugh in dayton's face. broxton is the only worthwhile piece at the moment. cuthbert is having a down year and still a couple years away. dwyer can't get it together and is probably headed for the bullpen. smith is a below average 5th starter at best. frenchy blows.

it would take one of or a combination of butler, hosmer, moose, myers or odorizzi paired with other a-listers. probably either starling or zimmer and possibly montgomery or john lamb.

It's crap. He'll demand a lot bigger haul than that.

None of you guys are Deez.

:D

I'd have no problem moving Starling and I forgot about Ventura.

We don’t need 3. One (or possibly 2, JIMP) would be eonugh. But we will have all these guys coming back from injury, and more kids coming up the system. 2013-2016 is the window, not this year (despite how we’ve handled the injuries so far)

The problem is, you can't really tell what we've got for sure, either with our current starters, or guys in the minors.

1: Hoch: Never tell which Hoch you're gonna get. The unhittable Hoch, or the pussy fold up at first sign of trouble Hoch.

2: Paulino: Great stuff, can't seem to stay off the DL. With the way he throws, may destroy himself soon.

3. Chen: Career .500 pitcher, 4th or 5th starter for most MLB teams. Has been better this year, but age is becoming a factor.

4. Duffy: Probably be two years before he's totally back from TJ surgery.

5. Sanchez: He's the Giants version of Kyle Davies. Deal him, spray the room with Febrese.

6. Mazzaro: I still can't get over the 9 run inning to Cleveland last year. I was there that night. Classic AAAA guy. Not quite major league, better than AAA.

7. Odorizzi: Let's see what we got before we package him up and deal him away. Looking forward to seeing him in the Futures game.

8. Will Smith: Yeah, well....another year at Omaha might do him some good.

9. Adcock. Same thing, not ready yet.

10. Zimmer: Not till 2014 probably.

We're going to have to find at least two, maybe three more starters to contend next year. Guess they better start trying to sew up the position players. At least try to hang on to what we HAVE built successfully.

At least it's not all gloom and doom, as usual by this time of year. We have a fighting chance to be respectable in 2012. I'll take that.

IMO there isn't a pitcher worth Myers, Odoreasy, butler.

Not in all of baseball.
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Especially with the velocity dropping on the king.

And funny that no one bitches about him having that nickname but everyone bashes Lebron over him being called that...
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Maybe Verlander but even then those 3 are a lot to give up. I don't think I'd pull the trigger there either simply from a "good years left" standpoint.

Verlander.

Still not in my opinion.not for all three
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My point exactly
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You'll need Tommy John on your neck.

Re: the second round of King Felix talk...

The Mariners have three top-flight pitching prospects (Hultzen, whose ceiling is a No. 2 or 3 starter, Tajuan Walker, James Paxton, who both have No. 1 stuff) about to his the majors. I don't think a pitcher is going to be the major centerpiece in any deal for Hernandez. (Even though TINSTAAP should apply).

If the Royals wanted to acquire Hernandez, you're going to have to give up good, long-term controlled players.

I wouldn't do any sort of deal in which Butler and Myers are included. Premium bats are becoming more and more valuable, IMO. Butler is on pace to be a 3-4 WAR player, which is pretty amazing from a DH. They control him for 3 more seasons. If he continues to produce at the current level, that's at least 9 WAR over that period (and if he gets a little bit better as the lineup around him improves, even more).

Myers is controlled for six years and is, in many opinions, the best close-to-MLB prospect in baseball (now that Harper and Trout are established in the bigs, there's little debate here). He's potentially a legit .320/30/100/100 .380 OBP/.500 SLG once he gets his feet under him (and I think he hits early, personally). I wouldn't be surprised to see Myers post 20 WAR in his first six years.

Both of those guys are much more valuable over the life of their controlled time than Hernandez would be.

As far as acquiring Hernandez... I would be willing to throw a lot at him other than those guys. The problem is that the Royals don't match up well with the Mariner's needs (they desperately need bats). And the Royals' best bats beyond Meyers are guys that are FAR away (Jorge Bonifacio -A+, Starling, Rookie League, Cheslor Cuthbert, A+).

I think a guy like Matt Garza - who could be acquired at this year's deadline and give you 1.5 seasons rather than 2.5 - is an easier acquire for the Royals. Price is going be lower, and the matchups are easier (Cubs would likely value Odorizzi much more than the Mariners would).

Re: acquiring pitching for next season. The solution is pretty simple, if Glass is willing to open the checkbook (and he should be, considering the payroll flex they're going to have under the self-imposed ceiling) you can acquire two very valuable pieces through free agency. You might not get one of the true aces (Hamels or Greinke), but there are plenty of very good second-tier guys out there.

Bruce Chen is going to be there, and is a solid middle-rotation guy.
Jake Odorizzi, unless he's traded, is part of the rotation next season.

Beyond that, it's question marks. Paulino's TJ surgery is a big blow, because I really think he had started to put it together and harness his great stuff. Same thing with Duffy. You MIGHT - if you're lucky - get a second half contribution from one of them.

John Lamb is throwing off a mound and should start seeing game action sometime in the next 4-6 weeks, so that's a definite plus. If you get REALLY lucky, he might pitch well enough to get back to NWA this year. Which possibly puts him in position to help out of ST or early in 2013.

Mike Montgomery is an enigma.

Beyond that, all you have close in-house are filler guys like Mazzero, Will Smith, Teaford - who are a far cry above what we've seen in the past.

Honestly, I'd be beating down the door re: Matt Garza. Offer the Cubs Jason Adam+one of the bullpen trio (Crow, Holland, Herrera)+Bubba Starling or Jorge Bonifacio (I'd lean towards Bonifacio, who also is a bit more proven) + some filler (David Lough? Chris Dwyer? Justin Marks?).

That's less than what they gave up for him (marginally), but he also has 1.5 fewer years of control. The Cubs would gain a young, cheap closer they can plug in right away, along with high-upside guys at SP and OF to help begin the massive rebuilding project.

If you can trade for Garza, I'd immediately offer him an extension (4 years, $48 million).

Cut ties with Broxton, Hochevar, and Sanchez before the start of 2013. That frees up $15 million, and even with Garza's deal leaves them $30 million under the self-imposed salary ceiling.

Then sign the best FA guy you can find to a 4-5 year deal. There are a lot of guys who will be in that same range as Garza (Anibal Sanchez, Brandon McCarthy, etc)...

FA pitcher
Garza
Chen
Odorizzi
Roster filler (Montgomery, Smith, Mazzero, Teaford, etc.)

Paired with a good young lineup that gets an injection of production from Sal Perez and Wil Myers, that's a team that can compete next year.

Of course, none of that probably will happen. So whatever....

duncan_idaho for president of RoyalsPlanet.

One more thing re: the 2013 rotation...

That No. 5/filler spot... it leaves you open to make use of a young pitcher who forces the hand (Montgomery? Justin Marks? etc) or one of the TJ trio (Lamb, Duffy, Paulino) if they're ready.

I think duncan has me on ignore.

Good post Duncan but you lost me on the Garza trade. No way I include Starling in that type of deal for only 1.5 years of Garza, a solid pitcher but not an ace.

Also, I continue to hear everyone talk about just signing pitchers in FA this offseason, but I think we get back to a Torii Hunter situation where even overpaying a bit isn't enough to lure a top talent with options. I think we are going to have to hugely overpay to get a valuable starter, and I don't think we will be willing to do that.

Nope. Just was didn't see it until after my follow-up post.:D

Heh no biggie. Enjoy your takes is all.

Garza deal wouldn't have to include Starling. I'd rather include Bonifacio in that proposal (and with him being more proven in the minors, it might make more sense to the Cubs, anyway). The nice thing there is that the Cubs need EVERYTHING. So a lot would be on the table.

I also think you can extend Garza. He's been traded a lot (Twins to Rays to Cubs), which might help convince him to put down roots if offered a nice extension.

The 2013 FA pitching class is REALLY deep, though. Tons of quality guys moving around in it, and lots of options. Here's a list. I think you can easily go after the second tier of guys in that group and find quality pitching you can AFFORD and LURE to KC.

Thank you Duncan. Lots of great info. I have no interest in Felix considering what they would want for him. He isn't worth it statistically or financially. Guy hasn't posted a sub 3 ERA in 1.5 seasons now. Currently sitting at 3.52. Also the Mariners use and abuse him like we did with Meche. Guy pitches 230 innings every year averaging 104 pitches per outing.

I came at you because saying they'll go 5-12 when they've been winning is very short-sighted.

#Notyourtime

#mostdays

Just saw the Paulino news. Jesus, what terrible luck.

Jesus Christ....WTF is wrong with Mazzaro?

Maybe they meant for the slogan to read:

Our time?

1st inning and already lost. Thanks Mazarro you worthless piece of Kyle Davies trash

Might have to get Rudd or Riggle up in the pen.

I agree with the sentiment, but it's technically the opposite of short-sighted.

People bash Lebron because of "The Decision." Because what he really decided on this night was that he was a complete embarrassment to himself and professional basketball.

So **** him.

To reiterate what Rany tweeted: Paulino just made a rehab start and is now lost to TJ. This demands some type of explanation.

Don't insult Kyle Davies like that.

no he was mocked prior for the nickname. But that's cool.
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Link? Lebrun was, overall, loved when he was in Cleveland. After he went to Miami he become, overall, hated. And he's had that nickname since high school. Ya know, cause of the bible and all. It actually makes sense.

I know they have called him that since high school.

People poked fun at it when he was in Cleveland too.
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What if there's not? Rany quits again?

I would imagine it's because the Royals are attempting to cover something up. With Paulino done for the season the Royals should consider themselves out of it and begin selling.

This guy is a ****ing Moran
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I have to say guy, the Royals lost their best starting pitcher for the year.. we're gonna depend on Mazzaro, Hoch, Chen and these other guys? Especially while the Royals offense scores 2-3 runs a game?

I don't understand how he isn't on the ignore list for every Royals fan who frequents these threads.

I propose universal ignore for Prowl/UCF/Al Bundy. He has nothing of substance to add plus he's an idiot and a troll. Ignore only works if we all do it and don't quote his worthless ass.

What about Kershaw or Strasburg?

I know.. the truth hurts.

I will say it now.. anyone who think the Royals are contending for ANYTHING this year are morons.

Disagree. Before this team had no potential of hopes of winning. Things are different now. Players might contemplate the Royals more now without having to be greatly over-payed.

This division is fairly shitty.

They could win it.

Not with this pitching staff, if you told me Paulino was coming back this year and Odorizzi would be called up and be decent.. but no chance now.

If Hos and Gordon would start hitting like they're capable of, things would be very different.

Who's to say Odorizzi won't get called up now?