Let's talk about "true fans"
 

Marcellus's thread was clearly a lot of attention whoring, but when it comes down to it, he has a point. The word "true fan" has become a catch-all for anyone who doesn't agree with a person on here about XXX player or XXX move that the Chiefs have made.

The issue I have with it is that it's increasingly become a straw man insult that doesn't even make sense. Discussion around here lately reminds me of discussions in D.C. where every issue has to be black and white and anyone who doesn't agree with you is an idiot. The reality is that there are opinions all over the spectrum and that nothing is ever black and white. I'd think there are at least five different categories of Chiefs fans these days:

1 - True "homers" who will cheer for the team and applaud every move they make unconditionally. These types almost don't even exist on ChiefsPlanet (though people like to act like they do). These are only a small portion of the Chiefs fanbase, and they look like this.

2 - Optimists who will always cheer for the Chiefs, but have a sense of realism about it. They probably cheered Cassel for the first few years, but reluctantly joined the SOC bandwagon last year when it was clear that there was just no hope in saving the team under Cassel.

3 - Fans who try to keep a balanced approach. They don't get too excited about drafting a RT at #1 or trading for Alex Smith, but they believe that it's likely the team will at least be improved this year if not dramatically so. Their approach is a "wait and see" reaction, though they'll be quick to criticize if things don't work out.

4 - Pessimists who are skeptical that the Chiefs are going to be competitive any time soon, but who do try and give the team some benefit of the doubt under the new leadership. They're probably not happy about Alex Smith being our QB, but are grudgingly willing to see what he can do.

5 - Total naysayers who have had it with the team for the past 40 years and will refuse to be optimistic until the Chiefs find some real success (playoff wins at a minimum, and Super Bowl contention ideally). They believe that the front office should be constantly scrutinized given that their predecessors were given a long leash and screwed it all up.

Anyway, I thought it would be interesting to see where people would put themselves on the spectrum. It seems like most threads these days are battles between 5's and 1's, but I'd bet that those types are actually pretty rare around here. My dream would be that we can one day have discussions that are dominated by 2's, 3's, and 4's, but who knows if that can ever happen until the Chiefs start showing success.

Discus.

This thread exhibits all kinds of True Fan behavior.

Go drink your own anal leakage :)

What would be REALLY interesting would be to have a poll where everyone could rate everyone else and see how self-perceptions and the perceptions of others compare, but that'd be too much work. I bet we'd see a lot of people are perceived as being much further toward the ends of the spectrum, though.

:Lin:

I think that's always been true around here... people might be quicker to throw out a 'your an idiot' or the true fan label, but there's really never been much in between with most people when it comes to the big debates.


I think I've slowly slid from #2 in the 90s/early 2000s to at least 3, if not 4. It's hard to be optimistic when you see a team make the same mistakes again and again... and even when they take a step forward, it's not until after the sky has fallen, and it's usually followed by two steps back. I still have glimmers of hope... the thought of season tickets popped into my head after the regime change... but, I've taught myself to squash those thoughts, which sucks.

Rank the person who posted before you? That would be fun.

I'd rank Bearcat as a 3 or 4, but used to be a 2.

I think people are mobile between the categories. Some people maybe not, but in my case I move between them depending on how I perceive things. I'm currently at #5, but it has been a gradual decline over time starting with the Vermeil era. I briefly moved up to #4 after Pioli was fired, but am back at #5 after the offseason moves our new mgmt have made. I'd love to be a #3, but I need to have some faith restored in the Chiefs. Right now, all I know is that we have been made to look foolish week in and week out since Vermeil left, and even then our defense was a joke.

You need to get rid of balanced and rename pessimist as realist.

This place is like a shitty stand-up comedian who thinks he's really smart and witty but isn't, so he masks it by doing the "perpetually pissed off guy" schtick.

Why people think ranting and raving makes them look like they know what they're talking about is beyond me.

Perceived as: 5. :)

It's just gotten worse and worse over time, though. Either every GM in the NFL is ignorant, or CP groupthink is ignorant.

I waiver between a 3 and a 4.

I was a homer when I was 8-12, then gradually started sliding down to the pessimist I am now. If this Smith/Reid/Dorsey experiment goes anything like Cassel/Haley/***** did I will be a full-fledged naysayer.

Simple... If you KNOW the Chiefs SUCK ASS at the present time but YOU Hope that NEW GM and NEW coach could turn our fortunes. (Expect the worse but hope for the best) Then you are balanced imo.

Works for Jim Rome...

Somewhere between 3-4.


Thanks a lot Pioli.

This is the only statement I don't believe. These people aren't a small portion. There are literally thousands of these ****ers out there. They have zero football knowledge and only go off of what ESPN and NFL tell them.

/Late

LMAO

Balanced, i prefer optimism but am always open to pessimism when presented with good evidence.

True Fan really doesnt mean much anymore, there are precious few full-blown homers on here these days.

"Here Charlie Brown, you run up and kick the football...I'll hold it for you...."

I don't think ive ever used the term.
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God I hated that bitch.

I don't mean to say that they don't exist in the world, but just not on here. CP eats homers alive.

Even then, though, my personal guess is that only 10-15% of the total fanbase really falls into that category. See: Arrowhead attendance late last year.

If a homer can stay a homer through 10 years of shit, I don't know whether to applaud them or loathe them.

Always an optimist.

I think I'm balanced for the most part. I hate the Alex Smith trade but I could see this team winning 10 games and going to the playoffs. I think there's a huge difference between Crennel and Reid and that alone is worth 4-5 more wins.
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Just as in politics where most of the noise is made by the people who are the extremist on the right and left, so it is here at CP. The naysayers(which includes many of those who mislabel themselves as pessimist) dominate the forum even though as in politics their numbers are small compared to the larger population....so it is here at CP.

Per webster most of the CP naysayers and pessimist aren't really fans....
def... Definition of FAN

1
: an enthusiastic devotee (as of a sport or a performing art) usually as a spectator

I consider myself a realist, but am probably viewed as a pessimist because well this team has history of sucking and it looks like they will again. So when you think they suck and they do you get viewed as being negative, but you are actually a realist :shrug:

I'm an Awesome Optimist with pragmatic expectations and realistic evaluations.

I'm optimistic about most things in my life (who wouldn't be whilst this Awesome?) but in reference to the OP definitions - I always knew, and voiced, that Cassel would be a failure.

Exactly my point. You call a pyle of shit a pyle of shit and you are called negative, but when what else is one supposed to call a pyle of shit other than Brainiac?

Agreed.

Again, the issue is that it's not black and white. You would probably say that there's a 10% chance Alex Smith will be successful in KC. I'd say it's more like a 40% chance.

No matter which of us we're talking about, though, it's not going to change in the next couple years. Are you really going to be bitching about Alex the entire time, or at some point can you give it up and try to have a discussion about something else?

I hated the idea of getting Alex Smith before we got Alex Smith so why should I be happy now after we got him or have expectations that he is going be any good for us?


I can be optimistic about some of the other players and can only hope that maybe just maybe next year we can draft a quarterback in the first round. I doubt it but I wont be a happy Chiefs fan until we draft a quarterback in the first or win the Super Bowl with who we got.

I would honestly call myself a 2.5.

I want to be optimistic but I get as pissed as anyone when things are going bad.

I am trying to stay balanced but the more I get slammed by the 4's and 5's it makes me want to push back making me look like a 1.

Kind of a 2. Always have been a glass half full kind of guy.

It depends on your definition of successful.


If it's 9-7 to 11-5 with maybe a playoff win I would say Smith's success possibility is 80%

If it's 10-6 to 13-3 with a Superbowl I would say his success possiblitiy is 10%

I would assume it depends on his performance. What was the hot topic the last 4 years? The suckage or lack of for 1 year of Matt Cassell. I don't recall much discussion on Trent Green other than if he was a top 10 QB or not.

Optimistic because they signed Daniel. Of course, this is predicated upon Smith's impending season ending injury that will allow Daniel to become the starter.

Yes, I'm a shameless MU homer. **** off if you don't like it. And if you're from Kansas and don't like it, **** off and die.

I voted Balanced before reading the description, but after I would change my vote to pessimist.

Feel I am balanced.

19 ****ing 93.

Pesimist until proven otherwise.

/endthread

No problem with calling a perceived pile a pile of shit. The problem exists when a person creates multiple threads as well as multiple opportunities to draw attention to the fact that he thinks it is a pile of shit. Virtually every post of said poster contains some element of his that thinks that pile is indeed made of shit. Plus in the off chance that he posts about something else, there is a catch all in his sig that will ensure that even the new topic will be tainted by the knowledge that he indeed thinks that pile is shit.

It becomes redundant and boring.

I see that syphilis treatment isn't going as planned. Hope it gets better buddy.

I don't care if our QB is the devil himself if he leads us to playoff wins and a SB.

hater :harumph:

x1000

If the pessimists were slightly less obnoxious in their self-righteous bitching it wouldn't force balanced fans into homerism.

The majority of the forum probably falls in the 3-4 category. However, people are so desperate to win an argument that these 3's & 4's get over dramatic and label each other as 1's & 5's.

Too many people over-sensationalize someone else's views in order to prop themselves up.

Hell, just look at this thread if you need proof.

I think that the total naysayers are either trolls or former homers who are truly homers on the inside but have gone "rogue".
I don't understand why people think that a player being the best option at this time makes them a homer, especially when they share the same idea to replace "said player" in the near future.

By your definition I would fit into the "naysayer" slot, but I think I am balanced.

I would say a 3 for me....I'm not particularly thrilled about the Alex Smith trade and what we gave up. But I wasn't much on the Geno bandwagon either.....

Had Pioli been allowed to stay I would have been a definite 5....but I will give Andy Reid the benefit of the doubt for now.

I would have been a 1 if Pioli stayed.




DEFCON 1

The place to find the liars is usually going to be #3. Most people in any fan base will claim that they are balanced, and most people area full of shit when they make that claim. Here, the poster norm is probably #4.

It's almost a polar opposite of most team boards I read, although the dynamics are similar. JetsInsider, for example, has the "SOJF" insult instead of "true fan", but its populated mostly by homers, optimists and people who just hate every other team. If your #4 posters here think the "true fans" are bad, try reading Ray Ray on JI for a little while.

Even your most wide eyed homers around here are cynical bastards compared to him.

If we want to use the term "real fans" in the manner in which it is used, I think it should be o.k. to refer to the other end of the spectrum to be labeled, "dumb asses".......:p

You guys should find the original "True Fans" post, which sparked this whole thing (well, that and Carl Peterson).....I think it was made by Hamas iirc. Everyone throws the term around on this forum, but i have to wonder how many remember the original post.

I would put myself slightly closer to 4 than 3.

So if he REALLY believes that he's smart & witty, why does he need to "mask" that he's not? He doesn't realize that he's not smart & witty, so he wouldn't recognize the need to mask anything, right? Are you trying to show us how smart you are? :p

I've been through phases where I've belonged within all 5 of these categories.

I'm a naysayer and I just became a Chiefs fan.

I tried to join the Optimist Club, but every time I went to a planning meeting, I'd find myself blurting out "THIS WILL NEVER WORK!!!"

Im a 2.5 as well.
Im neither stoked or disgusted with the Smith trade. Im hoping he does well and that coaching brings out the best in him.
Im also OK with Eric Fisher. Happy that it wasnt Joker and waiting to see if it works out. Im hoping that our Oline is dominant and we win alot of games.
Im also chill when it comes to the draft and who we drafted. I have no true idea if these guys are going to work out, but I really hope they do. Time will tell.
Im willing to truly look at this team as coming from the absolute bottom and look at positives, even win we lose.
However, if they choke their ass off by the 2nd yer of this regime, Ill be pissed again. Then if shit continues to roll down hill in the 3rd year, Ill be apathetic again (2012) and lose my passion for football. Which for me is the saddest part.
This past season was the worst, so Im going to try have a fresh attitude about whats to come and hope what the new regime is doing, works.
I also agree that certain people try to put you into homer category if you are just trying to have better outlook and willing to give new FO and clean slate.

I reluctantly voted 3, even though I'm wary of the term "balanced." It sounds like one of those labels, like "independent voter" or "political moderate," that a lot of people use in a self-congratulatory manner to show how "open-minded" they are. But if you quiz them on their beliefs or voting habits, you often find they routinely support one political party or ideology over the other.

But based on how DaFace described it, that's pretty much where I'm at -- " Their approach is a 'wait and see' reaction, though they'll be quick to criticize if things don't work out." Although there are many times I swing to No. 4 ("They're probably not happy about Alex Smith being our QB, but are grudgingly willing to see what he can do").

3

I WANT to be an optimist. Hell, I'd like to be a full blown homer ala Patriot or Steeler fan, but I'm a pessimist. I've seen this dog and pony show before. They're going to have to earn my optimism or homerism.

"If there's a new way, I'll be the first in line. But it better work this time." Ah, Megadeth. Political and football savants.

I'm an optimistic realist. Part of what helps me remain optimistic is the fact that I have what I think are realistic expectations.

I hope for the best and understand that plans don't always work out. I'm skeptical of some moves like trading for Cassel and drafting Poe on potential, but even in those cases I'm willing to wait and see how it turns out.

I wouldn't have included a "balanced" option in this poll.

You have serious issues :shake:

In general, I'm a 2. I figure that if I can't start a season hoping for the Super Bowl, why be a fan? Ever since the 1999 Rams, I refuse to believe that there's no chance.

However, that doesn't mean that I approve every move or believe every move will work. I hated the Jared Allen trade, for example, and the Tony Gonzalez trade, though I knew that one was necessary. And I tirelessly voiced my opposition to Herm after that disastrous Colts game where it became obvious that he was not ... playing ... to win ... the game.

But when Ryan Succop is approaching the ball on the opening kickoff of Week 1, I believe that we will win the Super Bowl. Otherwise, the whole thing is a waste of time.

I'm probably balanced, but voted pessimistic. I did after all have a fairly significant meltdown with the whole albert fisher thing.

The thing about the NFL is you never know. The Chiefs were hoping for playoffs, but no one expected 13-3 in 2003. Alex Smith could flourish under a dominant o-line, plenty of experience under his belt and free from the pressure of 1.1 at SF.

/optimist

Overall I am fairly realistic....

I allowed myself to have hope during the Pioli regime

I really liked what haley did with Az., and homerishly thought it would translate

I trusted the 'executive of the decade' to know wtf he was doing with Cassel


Now Im pessimistic about the current regime


I dont have faith in Alex

I Dont llove what we did in the draft



So I guess it all balances out....in general I just ride with it , and try not to go too far in either extreme...

I got labeled a ball washer during the early cassel years, simply because I wanted to give him a chance...now I see the same thing happening all over again. Lines are drawn and if alex smith turns out sucking & not winning a playoff game, there will be people labeled as ball washers etc...

CP 3:14
Let he who wants to accuseth his brother of ballwashery, wash his own balls first.

Optimist. I don't buy into the bullshit of Clark being cheap. I honestly believe he's trying to do what's best for the Chiefs. The Jury is still out on Dorsey as a GM. I'm certainly not going to pin all the years of ineptitude on Dorsey like some of the morons on here are fond of doing. As I've gotten older, I've kind of learned to root like hell for the team for 3 hours and then try and let it go when it's over.

I was all set to join the Balanced or Optimists club, but I was waiting until after the draft to see how the QB situation was handled.

After how it was addressed, I'm back to pessimist. Along with the apparent trade valuation of this FO.

You have butt polyps.

I covered this 4.5 years ago.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=198633

I consider myself a perfectly realistic Cardinals fan. I'd be viewed as a Chiefs naysayer, but when they exhibit the ineptitude consistent with one of the worst franchises in professional sports, what benefit of the doubt have they earned?

I guess my point of this thread is that the type of people you describe in that thread largely don't exist on ChiefsPlanet.

Not a student of Nixon, I see.

I see myself as balanced. I just have a particular opinion on the best way to do things, and all-to-often the franchise goes in a completely different direction. When I like something they do, I'm not shy about saying that. It just doesn't happen as often as I'd like.

True fans to me are people who would have been big fans of Martyocre in the 90's, think "King Carl" shit gold, and who for some reason today still believe in that decade's philosophy at Arrowhead, which is basically outmoded in today's NFL. (And, hell, it was outmoded back then.) We're in a league where speed kills and where the rules are so ridiculously slanted towards the passing game that it's become far more beneficial to be great on offense and then as competitive as possible on defense, rather than vice versa. Zero-point-three yards and a cloud of dust ain't where it's at, folks, not anymore. Lines are always important, but skill position players win games and the quarterback in particular is the most important single position in all of sports. You don't want to "play not to lose". You don't want a QB who you hope can be "good enough". Strive for greatness there. Don't limit yourselves to Damon Huards and Matt Cassels and Alex Smiths. And for god's sake, we aren't looking to relive the "glory years" of the 90s. We want something more. So put away the zubaz, cut off that mullet and join us in the 21st century.

So I guess I what I'm saying is that, to me, true fans are people that are stuck in the past. It's not so much about what they're saying, but why they're saying it. I'll even throw in the word 'brainwashed' there from time to time, because they seem so satisfied with a philosophy that produced pretty steady failure for the better part of 20 years. It's like stockholm syndrome.