Just curious Phob, what besides what you just stated would make you a believer in Trent? :banghead: :cuss: :banghead:

This is the very reason I rarely post here. Some of you take this board waaaaaaaaaaaay too personally.

Not taking anything persoanlly.......I was just asking. I know him so I was just curious.

What did Green have against MIAMI??:rolleyes:

Has Trent been great? No he definitely has not. I'm still fairly happy with him though, because he is making the key plays. He hasn't been able to carry the team with his arm, but he's helped us out at least, especially in the clutch. If he hasn't performed well late in games, I'd probably be more weary about him, but as long as we keep it close he's done a good job.

The Cleveland win, he was solid, and he made a great play to actually pitch the ball to Tait which allowed us to actually be in FG range after the helmet toss. I think that little bit of creativity gets overlooked in the whole "helmet toss" debacle. Yeah Rudd was a moron, but without Green and Tait's thinking, we don't win that game.

The Miami game, he was great. I don't even think I have to go into details here.

Today, he wasn't spectacular, had a solid first drive, but that's about it. But in the 4th, when the chips were down, he made a couple real gutsy plays. One put us ahead and the other iced the game.

That's 3 of our 5 wins right there. As long as Priest and the D can keep it together, I truly believe Green's good enough to help us finish it off... and right now I think that's good enough. It's a lot better than last year... and he's not had an INT in 3 of his last 4 games now... so I don't think he's that far from the "Trent Dilfer" level that some people wanted him to play at.

Oh, he had a great day against Miami. If this topic had appeared then, I'd be happy to listen to Pride and chew on some crow. Green didn't even throw for 200 yards today. You wouldn't guess that by reading Pride's topic header....

That post wasn't diescted directly at you, Tommycat. It was directed at the board in general. Considering all of us are "true Chief fans" (we obviously are or we wouldn't be here), the majority here argues too much.

As far as Trent... He may not be the best in the league. But, he's good enough to get us to the Superbowl (with the supporting cast around him). As long as he's wearing the Red and Gold, I'll always be a strong supporter of Green.

400 yards and 4 TD's isn't going to make me a believer. Improved decision making will. He has improved. A LOT. I'm NOT bashing the guy. Isn't that enough?

I'll let you know when I've become comfortable with Green at QB.

I can't imagine what the title to this thread would have been if Green actually had thrown a TD pass or two...

Phobia...

Trent was on the sideline the vast majority of the first half. Not everythings about stats. Buffalo did a very good job of keeping our offense off the field. While our defense did a very good job as well by limiting their team to only 16 points in the process.

holic,

I know. I'm not saying Green had a bad game, but it's certainly not the first one he's gonna dig out of the video vault to show the grandkids....

ChiefsPride is posting as though Green just had a career defining game. Not so.

I never doubt Trent Green he's effin AWESOME !

Fair enough Phob....;)

He threw the ball 20 times, for 197 yards, 9.85 yards per attempt. Put that with the key runs, he did more than his share today.

He had a better day than Bledsoe.

Sorry, didn't post fast enough to catch your last reply Phobia.

How about we drop all this crap back and forth and CELEBRATE A CHIEFS WIN.

WE WON DAMMIT. WE WON.

Really? It's hard to tell sometimes from what you read.... :D ;)

This ain't about ChiefsPride 'having his day'. A lot of the shit he's dished-out in the last 24 hours has been directed at me, and I'm not even a Green basher. I just happen to have the audacity to (gasp) say that I'm not particularly happy with the way that Green has played, and that includes today's game, where his two great runs cover up the fact that he was ineffective and inefficient yet again throwing the ball, which is his job.

That's not bashing, that's stating facts...

When I say Green hasn't completed more than 60% of his passes in any of the last five games, that's a fact.

When I say Green is averaging less than 200 yards passing in each of the last five games, that's a fact.

When I say that Green has a 1:1 TD/INT ratio in the last five games, that's a fact.

When I say that Green is averaging less than 1 TD pass in the last five games, that's a fact.


And when I say that the offense, as a whole, is averaging under 17 points/game in the last three games, that's a fact, too.


Do I expect more from Green?

Yes.

Do I believe we NEED more from Green if we want to finish over .500?

Absolutely.

Am I bashing Green?

Hell no. I never have, and I never will.

I'm doing the same thing I do to those guys on defense: giving a frank opinion on the way they've played. When they play well, I say it. When they don't, I say that, too. Ditto for Green. And ditto for anyone else on the team.

And today, Trent Green saved an utterly unforgettable performance at quarterback by making two HUGE key runs that won the game for us every bit as much as Warfield's INT.

That's what makes me 'not a true fan' in ChiefsPride's eyes.

fuck me, 'cause voicing my opinion -- not to mention voicing FACTS -- means I'm not a true believer... :rolleyes:

Too d@mn much crying on this board...
 

...today.

Phob can we get a smilie that carries a crucifix or something?

Something to indicate the pain that ChiefsPride has to live with each day?

Or an infant smilie suckling?

WilliamTheIrish

Trent completed exactly 60% of his passes today and had a QB rating of 93.1 and his two 4th qtr scrambles won the game. He's leading the offense and making good decisions what more could someone expect.

PhilFree:arrow:

A 60% completion rate is not particularly good. The coaching staff wants (expects) 65-70% from Green, and so do I. His QB rating for today is high because of his yards/attempt, which was very good, and would have been even more phenomenal had he not missed several key open receivers, most notably a wide-open Johnnie Morton. And, for the third game in the last five, he didn't throw a touchdown pass.

And if you're wondering why I key so much on 65%, here's why: we've never lost a game where he completed 65% or more of his passes. 7-0. Including today, when he's under 65%, we've only won 4 of 19.

But enough of this. I want to enjoy today's win, instead of dissect it. The team gets a night to celebrate, and I want mine too. :D

Re: Too d@mn much crying on this board...
 

How 'bout this one? Careful, contents under pressure! http://www.orangemane.com/YaBBImages/bomb.gif

All this talk about F@cking is making me horny.:p

Same old Qb story in KC. It won't ever change.
Percentage of passes completed, falling back on Priest, can't go downfield...doesn't matter...some here will never give him true respect, because in the back of their mind, they believe he will fail. Even when he wins games for us, like today. His third down scramble and headfirst score to take the lead while injured isn't enough.

Yup, same old story.

Keg-

That's like me "stating facts" by saying Priest just isn't doing well the past five games.

Fact: He's averaged 2.7, 4.7, 4.0, 4.6 and 3.4 yards per attempt the last 5 games.

The Chiefs really "want" 5.5 yards per attempt.

Priest would have had an "utterly unforgettable performance" today as well, if not for the fourth quarter.

Face it, you just don't like the guy and never will. I don't think that makes you a traitor or anything, just not too bright. But, you're entitled to your opinion and so is CP.

HALLAFRIGINLUYA!! THE CHIEFS WON!!!

For those who don't understand sarcasm, I DON"T THINK PRIEST HOLMES ISN'T DOING HIS JOB. I LOVE THE GUY AND THINK HE'S THE BEST BACK IN THE LEAGUE.

Wanted to clear that up just in case there was a misunderstanding.

In the NFL 60% completions is the benchmark. At least from everything I've ever heard coaches want their QBs to throw 60% or better. Trent did miss a TD today and hasn't thrown a TD for two games. Conversely he hasn't throw an INT for the last two games either. Trent took some hard hits today but he never got shook and and then he won the game on hobbled legs. He's earned my respect and I bet his team mates feel the same way.

PhilFree:arrow:

I really don't know what to think. It really all depends on what your expectations are of Trent... do you want him to be great or do you want to be just enough to get by? It's hard to really argue this with anyone because everyone has a different standard they hold him too, although I get the feeling that few feel that he's meeting that standard.

My problem with Trent is his inability to put the Chiefs in winning situations. When is too much success a good thing? When it comes too quickly. The offense was not giving the defense a chance in many games this year. Trent has not been able to control the clock even with the premier running back and tight end in football. That has left the defense on the field too long too often. Sort of like the Chargers used to do when they had Fouts as their QB. His job was to put point on the board, or so he thought. The job of the QB is to put more points on the board than the opponent and Fouts and now Green do not do that. When Trent has looked good, he looked very good. But look at his best game of the year against Miami. The game was up in the air 'til the last despite several Dolphin turnovers and a poor game by their QB and RB. The complaint last year when he was throwing all the INTs was that he had no receivers. This year when they have the receivers he cannot hit them. His completion percentage is a mirage of dumped off passes to Priest, who has yet to be able to run with the ball after catch as effectively as Faulk. At one point in the season his run average was higher than his per catch average.
Long and the short, Trent is not the man to lead us to the promised land I have been waiting for 32 years now.

My problem is simply this. To come on this board at halftime, after the Defense was on the field for the entire first half, and the Pats having a 20 minute+ to 9 minute+ possession advantage, and still read that were losing because Trent Green is not doing his job is pathetic and ridiculous. You can throw up stat after stat over the last 5 games. Or the last 10 games for that matter. You can throw out statisitics and call them facts. But the fact of the whole matter is that Trent Green is the best QB we've had here in a long time. He carried the team today. You don't have to throw for 400+ yards, and 4 TD's to carry a team. I don't want you bashers to tell me Green's a great QB. I don't want you to tell me he's a good QB. All I want is for the people that say Green is a no talent bum, that he is mediocre at best, that he is a waste of a first round pick...Own up to the fact that he's more than that, and that he's had a very good year, and carried KC today. Every sports anchor and every coach knows that if our Defense was even mediocre, we would have a lot better record than 5-5. But to come on here at halftime after watching the Defense play as terrible as any defense I have seen play....And to still lay the blame on Green?? That's a little to much for me to take.

I've been a big Green fan since I read his life story. Then I met the guy, and I have never met a Pro Athlete that respectful, especially to youngsters. He's a solid leader on and off the field. I just don't see the fun in calling him a loser, TrINT, or any other stupid *** name when he busts his *** every Sunday, and is a standup guy. I just don't find the humor in it.

Boy, your offense sure looked inept today for the little that I got to see... Amazing to see your defense keep you in this one... Congratulations.

I'll keep doubting Trent Green.

Taco

Whats up Taco I am surprised you have not lost the sig yet ;) btw that pic at the bottom is LOLF. where did you get it?

Green certainly played well today, and he's surpassed my hopes for the year. I'm a fan.

Nice... I forgot i can change sigs now....

A Chiefs fan here found the pic... I just kiped it... ;)

This thread is either the most pathetic or funniest thread I have read on this BB in a long time. Way to go folks!:eek:

387 and Bush I've got him at gunpoint.....387 and Bush, covers, code 3..boopboop
 

For some reason I'm reminded of the saturday night live skit where the porchHonky locks his wife in the oven...

For some reason...I'm guessing the local 5-0 is heading to a trailer park for a domestic disturbance.

The Defense gets credit for this win..Holding Buffalo to 16. Trent IS an average QB in my estimation...He did play hard yesterday, took some good shots and got back up.....But he also missed some passes to open WR.
I could list a dozen quarterbacks in the league that I think are more talented.

Being a nice guy, and stand up citizen doesn't complete a pass 20 yards down the field to a WR....

We must be realistic about this. The Chiefs' coaches have a leash on Green. They are not throwing the deep ball with Green...and for good reason.

Also, Buffalo is an average team with an average defense. Green should have performed even better in the game, and the Chiefs should have scored at least 24 pts. in the game. It is obvious the other teams are shutting down Gonzo, knowing that Kennison and Morton aren't going to hurt them badly. Green and the Chiefs need to score more points. They were fortunate to win the Buffalo game, and we all know it. For the most part, Green should be playing even better than what he has been this year.

Don't let this game confuse your sense of reality. You have to consider the teams the Chiefs are playing. The offense should be playing better than what it has been the last three or four weeks. The Chiefs have tough games remaining against San Diego, Denver, Oakland, and St. Louis. I don't think they will make the playoffs, and they will probably finish the season at 7-9 to 9-7. However, I do hope they prove me wrong.

voyager...the realist

Amusing, for a guy who spends the majority of his life fantasizing about what could have been or what might be in the draft.

Green played really well yesterday, but our offense needs to be more efficient than it has been the last 3 weeks. We are more than capable of scoring more points, I think we were pretty conservative and we just weren't getting the job done on O. If our offense can come back to life AND our defense keeps this play up we will make the playoffs.

I agree,I wish we were scoring more points,but IMO,I believe the Chiefs played more conservatively yesterday to keep the D off of the field and to sway the time of possession to wear out the Bills.While I would definitely like to score alot more points,I do understand their approach to yesterday's second half.The Chiefs chose to run more clock on less possessions to help our D,rather than getting into a shoot-out with the Bills.It paid off.GO CHIEFS!!!!

fuck you ChiefsPride! TrINT Green SUCKS! He has no business being a starting QB! BENCH HIM NOW!

:cuss: :cuss: :cuss:

Keg-

That's like me "stating facts" by saying Priest just isn't doing well the past five games.

You don't even know how right you are. Priest Holmes is my favorite Chiefs' player and the best RB we've possibly ever had here. But he hasn't been as effective lately. Is it his fault? Is the offensive line's? Is it the defense?

So now that I've said he's not being as effective, does that mean I don't like him? Does that make me a doubter?

NO.

The WHOLE reason this started is because some people are either too stupid or too blind to realize that criticism can be constructive and even people that are happy can realize that there's room for improvement.

There are 16.5 million colors between black and white, yet some people can't seem to see it.

:rolleyes:

Does anyone else view this as the ultimate example of an oxymoron? ROFL

I agree that there is constructive criticism, but there's plenty of folks on this board that don't offer it. They seem intent on calling Trent a "lowercase bono" a "waste of a draft pick" and any number of other things that aren't constructive in the least, but instead show their ingrained bias against Trent. Then there are those, such as yourself, Brad, and Phobia, who might piss and moan a bit from time to time, but also give credit where it's due when Trent plays well.

People like Nap, Chuck, and others have all labelled Green a waste of a 1st round pick in the past.

NONE of that has happened in WEEKS, maybe even since the season began.

Why? Because Green is playing better. But can he play better still? Absolutely.

There are some that are happy with his performance, but this team is 5-5 and yes, he IS a part of that.

I'll ALWAYS label him a waste of a 1st round pick, too. Was that his fault? Nope. It was a ridiculous move on the part of this team's management.

Has he performed better lately? Yes. Does he have poor games? Yes. Does he have career games (Miami)? Yes. I don't know where I'm going with this....

So are you going to keep f***ing doubting Green or not? ;)

Where you're going with that is that you can believe that Green was a waste of a 1st round pick and STILL support him as our QB.

Some people here think that it is an either/or proposition.

On 11/15/2002
ck_IN wrote:
On 11/15/2002
Otter wrote:
On 11/15/2002
Shane69 wrote:
Voyager wrote:
These are all from a single thread.

Wow, I missed 5 whole people.

The simple fact remains:

I can be critical of Green and still be happy that he is our QB.

:D Probably. Believe me, I'd LOVE to have some confidence in him, it's just that when he's scrambling or rearing back to heave a deep ball, I just know it's going to be an INT. Thankfully, we haven't seen too much of either lately.

That sampling was from a single post on a single day. I'm sure I could fine plenty more within the last couple of weeks. Hell, just look at anything football related that lazarus posts;) He's sure to get a shot in on Green.

I'm not disputing with your argument that you can be critical and still be a fan. Of course, I'll not buy that you're happy he's the Chief's QB either. I just think that many of you that might have less than stellar opinions of Trent sometimes pass over some of the negative things that are posted, whereas people like CP really take not of it. Eventually it builds up and you get a post like the initial one for this thread.

ChiefsPride singled me out. He played with fire and he got burned.

You'll notice that none of those posts you quoted were from me. I've never compared Green to Bono. I've never called for him to be cut.

Have I been critical of him? You damn bet. He DESERVES it. His play as of late leaves a lot to be desired.

Now............there's a true fan if I ever saw one!!!(tic)

Enough already CP, It's hard to take you or your opinions seriously when you continually rant and threaten posters who don't agree with you. Would you act like this if you were looking them in the eye, I for one doubt it. It's easy to tell someone to F- off when your hiding behind a monitor.


Oh, by the way see you next week.

You're just gonna have to let the schoolgirl crush go, Tom. Even a fan of average intelligence can detect that post is a sarcastic barb directed at somebody else. Add one more IQ point and you might even be able to marry my sig to the statement.

This is not a slam at Tom as I have nothing against him, you guys should come up with a icon for replies that go over someones head.

You mean a TommyKat smilie?

One for times like this, what is a TommyKat smilie? heck look at the up side you could use it on me atleast twice a week!

It's nothing thus far. But, it we had such a smilie, surely I would name it the TK Smilie....

That is what I thought. My sister was online and got compared to TK and asked if that was a bad thing, I said no that would be a good thing.

Yup - everybody loves TK!

.


I'm so overjoyed that you have determined that you are the only person on this board with a sense of humor.

As for I.Q. When you travel across the state line from Texas to OKlahoma I understand the average I.Q. of the whole state of Texas goes up.

:eek:

These guys are entitled to their opinions, ChiefsPride. You're better than that, CP. When fans have concerns for their teams, thats what makes them good fans, just my opinion, I could be wrong. I have no doubt that everyone hear wants to see Green do well (except TJ, UD, etc).:toast:

ChiefsPride,

You gotta chill out dude.

Between that signature and this post, well, you seem pretty much psychotic.

If you keep letting other people get under your skin so easy your going to an easy target for every ball buster out there. And bellieve me, there's alot of them out there.

Ritalin, Prozac, Valium....

You may want to look into them!

I don't believe that for a second.

Iowanian
Post# 114

"I could list a dozen quarterbacks in the league that I think are more talented. "

Please let us see your list!

Being a nice guy, and stand up citizen doesn't complete a pass 20 yards down the field to a WR....

Can you tell me the receiving average (yards per catch) of Eddie Kennison, and then explain how it got there without Green passing 20 yards down the field? Please also explain how Green passed for 197 yards on 12 completions without throwing the ball 20 yards down the field?

Bledsoe
Brady
Brooks
McNabb
Warner
Gannon(and his noodle arm)
Brees
Vick
Culpepper
Favre
Garcia

I like what I see of Pennington, Bulger, Carr and Harrington also.

Make no mistake....I'm pleased with the way Green has played this year for the most part.(especially when comparing last year)...but McNabb threw for more yards and 4 TD's with a broken leg...

Green has completed some long passes to Kennison.....if I get time I'll try to look up some average completion yards.....You'll find the majority of Greens are short, and swing passes/screens to Holmes.

I've also seen Green pretty consistently underthrow and or miss open WR downfield.

He's playing with heart and doing an acceptable job.....but to say he is a top QB in the league...is reaching...IMO.(which I'm entitled to)

Do your own Number comparisons here:
http://www.nfl.com/players/playerindex/POS_QB

The numbers speak for themselves.....Bulger is blowing Green out of the water the past 5 games...and he was a 3rd string QB.

The only thing I have to add to this thread is something for ChiefsPride:

http://www.prozac.com/

MM
~~Thinks someone needs to relax

QB Stats

Trent is 4th in the league in YPA.

What McNabb did on sunday was one of the all time gutsy performances by an NFL QB. Unbelieveable! I don't think we should try and hold that as the standard for QBs though. It's more like the pennacle.

PhilFree:arrow:

Phill,

Is that taking into account all the 3 yard "gannon passes" to Holmes who runs for 25yac?

I'm looking....and I'm just not seeing the #'s of completions to a WR that I'd expect from a top flight QB....but I am noticing ALOT of underthrown balls in their general direction.

Using your same stat source....could you please show me where the KC WR is located in the top 25 in the league?
http://football.espn.go.com/nfl/stat...on=2&year=2002

Where do you get the stats for underthrown balls? I didn't realize that the NFL was assigning errors these days.

Its not a stat....watch the games.

You'll know the underthrown balls when you see them.....they're the ones that bounce 5 yards behind the wide open WR 30yards downfield.

I'm not saying Green sucks. Don't mistake my argument...but he isn't a top flight, frachise type QB.

Where do you get the stats for underthrown balls?

He watches the games.

Now there's a novel idea...

I'm not saying Green sucks. Don't mistake my argument...but he isn't a top flight, frachise type QB.

You can't have it both ways, Roy. Either you think he sucks or you don't. The world is black and white and this is an either/or proposition.

So choose already you ****head ****ing mother ****er...

;)

Only Green is not allowed to have an errant throw. Every other QB is allowed...

WR Stats

Atcually Kennison is 26th in the league, however, he does lead the league in Yard Per Catch and he ain't getting that from the YAC.
IMO here lately Trents misses have been over thrown as much as anything.

PhilFree:arrow:

You miss my point:

If you all refuse to see where subjectivity comes into the viewing of a game, then I can't really help you out.

I'll be the first to admit that my opinions definitely cloud the way I watch the game. I'd hope that you all can do the same, but I doubt it. You feel that you're totally objective and have no preferences that might shade the way you perceive things while watching a game.

Trent makes bad throws, bad decisions, etc...

The receivers also run the wrong routes, fall down, and drop passes.

However, the person that stakes their Chiefsplanet reputation on Green failing, tends to key in on Trent's mistakes. The person that stakes their reputation on Green succeeding might key in on the receivers' mistakes. Now, since this isn't a black and white world, I'm willing to acknowledge that there are lesser degrees of biases to watch a game through, but everyone still has their little Green/Anti-Green colored glasses, in my opinion, even if some of them might be significantly lighter or darker in shade.

Stevie,

I don't expect any qb to go 25-25 every week. Green is making me happy by not throwing 2-3 ints per game. says alot for my qb expectations huh.

I think he is doing alright this year. Flip the Script.
How many of you guys that want to spoon in the nude with Green after a long warm shower think he deserves a top 10 QB contract after the season?

and his RB Priest Holmes is 14th in receptions.....alot of those sure are 75 yard bombs.

Kennison has what...33 receptions......doing a sort on receptions and Holmes is the only "reciever" Green has thrown to enough to be in the top 50...but I'll have to dig further on another list that allows me to search low enough to find a KC WR in receptions.....the top 50 list ends at 39receptions.

while, one can find 2 Buffalo WRs in the top 5. The difference? Bledsoe throws the ball down field.(also credit wr talent in Buff.)

However, the person that stakes their Chiefsplanet reputation on Green failing, tends to key in on Trent's mistakes. The person that stakes their reputation on Green succeeding might key in on the receivers' mistakes.

How about the MAJORITY of us, who would like to see marginal improvement from both Green AND the WR's, as well as major improvement in the defense?

Labelling us doubters is rather pretentious, don't you think?