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-   -   Kiper/McShay new mocks 2/7 (https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=269790)

RunKC 02-07-2013 10:16 AM

Kiper/McShay new mocks 2/7
 
Kiper has JOKEl

http://es.pn/WCPjRI

And McShay managed to make an even worse pick

http://es.pn/WCPrk4

Swell work, assholes. And people pay for this shit.

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The Franchise 02-07-2013 10:18 AM

Kiper:

At this point the Chiefs could be weighing at least a handful of players for this spot, if they stay here. As of now, at No. 1, a quarterback shouldn't be in the mix. So I think fans needs to consider that K.C. could be looking to secure the best available player here, period. From there, they either consider a QB with their first pick in Round 2, or perhaps the option of trading into the late first to mazimize value. As for Joeckel, at this time he probably represents the best guaranteed production on the pick value. A gifted technician at left tackle, he is already capable of handling good NFL pass-rushers, and could hold down the position for 10 years. Regardless, the Chiefs will be thinking about total draft value and strategy, not just a single pick here.

McShay:

The biggest question at the top is whether the Chiefs think highly enough of any of the 2013 quarterback prospects to go in that direction with this pick. The second question is whether OT Branden Albert will return to Kansas City. Assuming the answers to those questions are no and yes, respectively, Lotulelei makes most sense. The Chiefs have a need for a 5-technique (DE) in their 3-4 scheme, and he is an ideal fit. Lotulelei has great size and natural tools, especially strength, but he is not just a space-eater. He makes plays versus the run and can help collapse the pocket as an inside power rusher.

The Franchise 02-07-2013 10:18 AM

What's that? 3rd overall pick wasn't high enough for a 3-4 DE? Take one at #1....THAT'LL ****ING SHOW 'EM!


:facepalm:

Nightfyre 02-07-2013 10:23 AM

McShay assumes we need a 5-tech. Bad assumption.

the Talking Can 02-07-2013 10:24 AM

i'd rather be throat banged by blackbob's uncle than live with those picks....

KC_Lee 02-07-2013 10:32 AM

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/SIaFtAKnqBU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/zsTRxXvQY0s" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/3YnQdBD2y64" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

RealSNR 02-07-2013 10:36 AM

The biggest question at the top is whether the Chiefs think highly enough of any of the 2009 2013 quarterback prospects to go in that direction with this pick. The second question is whether OT Branden Albert will return to Kansas City. Assuming the answers to those questions are no and yes, respectively, Tyson Jackson Lotulelei makes most sense. The Chiefs have a need for a 5-technique (DE) in their 3-4 scheme, and he is an ideal fit. Jackson Lotulelei has great size and natural tools, especially strength, but he is not just a space-eater. He makes plays versus the run and can help collapse the pocket as an inside power rusher.



McShay's not even ****ing trying.

Deberg_1990 02-07-2013 10:54 AM

Its going to be very interesting to see what the Chiefs do at QB. IMO the veteran QB market is pretty thin. There will be mass suicides around here if we get A Smith or Flynn. But it sounds like nobody has a clue what the Chiefs will do.

Messier 02-07-2013 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNR (Post 9384566)
The biggest question at the top is whether the Chiefs think highly enough of any of the 2009 2013 quarterback prospects to go in that direction with this pick. The second question is whether OT Branden Albert will return to Kansas City. Assuming the answers to those questions are no and yes, respectively, Tyson Jackson Lotulelei makes most sense. The Chiefs have a need for a 5-technique (DE) in their 3-4 scheme, and he is an ideal fit. Jackson Lotulelei has great size and natural tools, especially strength, but he is not just a space-eater. He makes plays versus the run and can help collapse the pocket as an inside power rusher.



McShay's not even ****ing trying.

At least Lotulelei is considered a top pick, Jackson was a late first round value. Not saying draft Lotulelei, just that he's not Jackson. That said, drafting a 3-4 end #1 is like drafting a G #1.

RealSNR 02-07-2013 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Messier (Post 9384687)
At least Lotulelei is considered a top pick, Jackson was a late first round value. Not saying draft Lotulelei, just that he's not Jackson. That said, drafting a 3-4 end #1 is like drafting a G #1.

Yeah. I seem to remember all of Jackson's scouting reports from 2009 saying the exact same thing that McShay just said about Lotulelei. Stuff like, "great size and natural tools" and "can help collapse the pocket as an inside rusher." Which, btw, was a total ****ing lie in the case of Jackson.

In general, the Chiefs have tried generating pass rush on the line for years with guys that play the 3-tech in the 4-3, expecting them to get pressure by "collapsing the pocket." Against great QBs in the modern NFL, you don't have any time to collapse a pocket. That's why we are terrible against great QB'd teams with our DL ever since we switched to the 3-4.

Messier 02-07-2013 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNR (Post 9384694)
Yeah. I seem to remember all of Jackson's scouting reports from 2009 saying the exact same thing that McShay just said about Lotulelei. Stuff like, "great size and natural tools" and "can help collapse the pocket as an inside rusher." Which, btw, was a total ****ing lie in the case of Jackson.

And all mocks and player rankings had him in the teens and twenties.

The Franchise 02-07-2013 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNR (Post 9384694)
Yeah. I seem to remember all of Jackson's scouting reports from 2009 saying the exact same thing that McShay just said about Lotulelei. Stuff like, "great size and natural tools" and "can help collapse the pocket as an inside rusher." Which, btw, was a total ****ing lie in the case of Jackson.

In general, the Chiefs have tried generating pass rush on the line for years with guys that play the 3-tech in the 4-3, expecting them to get pressure by "collapsing the pocket." Against great QBs in the modern NFL, you don't have any time to collapse a pocket. That's why we are terrible against great QB'd teams with our DL ever since we switched to the 3-4.

Just a couple.

Quote:

Tyson Jackson Scouting Report:
LSU's Tyson Jackson is a big defensive end who could potentially play defensive tackle as well in the NFL. At his size, he's an every-down player who holds up exceptionally well against the run yet is still a solid pass rusher. He also has good strength, has a solid motor, and plays with a little bit of a mean streak.

Jackson is quick for his size, and comes off the edge surprisingly well. He has a nice long wing span that he uses to keep defenders from getting inside on him. He does have a tendency at times, though, of playing too high and letting blockers get into his chest.

He does have a lot of experience as a starter, has good leadership skills, and has been durable throughout his college career. As well as fitting in as either a left end or an under tackle in a 4-3 defense, Jackson would be ideal playing end in a 3-4 set.
Quote:

Jackson showed flashes of what was to come as a freshman, when he had 13 tackles, two for loss, and two sacks in reserve action. As a sophomore, he earned all SEC honors when he finished the season with 37 tackles, ten for loss, 8.5 sacks, and an interception. Bigger things were expected as a junior, and while he still had a fine season, the stats didn’t show it. He finished the season with 36 tackles, 4.5 for loss, and 3.5 sacks on the year. Jackson’s numbers were very similar as a senior, when he finished with 34 tackles, 8.5 for loss, and 4.5 sacks.

Strengths

Jackson brings a lot of versatility to the defensive line. He has the size and all around skill to impact the game in a lot of ways. He has an impressive set of tools, starting with excellent size for a defensive end. He is also a good athlete and can provide pressure on the quarterback on the edge. What sets him apart as an end though, is his run stopping ability. This may make him an ideal fit for a 3-4 defense, because he is stout at the point of attack and can really clog running lanes. Jackson could play end in a 4-3 or 3-4 alignment, but may also be able to shift inside in a 4-3. That type of versatility is going to ensure Jackson gets a lot of attention as the draft approaches, because he can fit any team that has a hole along the defensive line.

Weaknesses

For a traditional defense end, Jackson may lack the explosive athleticism and quickness to be a consistent threat off the edge. His pass rush ability at the college level has a lot to do with his natural strength and ability to control the lineman, then use his athleticism to get into the backfield. In the NFL, he will not have such a physical advantage and will have to learn new ways to apply pressure.

Future

For a team in need of a 3-4 end, Jackson may be the ideal fit. He is a standout at holding his ground, taking on blocks and stopping the run. He could bring above average penetration skills for a 3-4 end also. He can also fill holes in the 4-3, but fills a more specific role in a 3-4 alignment. He is the top player available in that role, so he really could go anywhere from the early teens to the end of the first based on the team drafting.
Quote:

Strengths: Nice height and strength ... Consistent production ... Athletic enough to beat and pursue ... Strong at the point of attack ... Displays a great rip move ... Gets low, uses hands well on bull rush ... Disciplined player who plays within the scheme; does not get out of control or take himself out of the play ... Gets hands up and bats down passes ... Anchor against the run ... Draws double teams occasionally ... Versatile as a 4-3 left defensive end, or an athletic 5-technique.

Weaknesses: Does not get much explosion off the snap ... Sometimes gets too high ... Did not play his best in big games ... Does not show much range ... Questionable instincts ... Needs to have more of a motor ... Does not present a high upside.

Summary: Jackson is a talented player, but he leaves some effort on the field and that worries me. He could go to a team lacking a powerful left defensive end, or to a team looking for a 5-technique to anchor the run. Like most, I have mixed views on Jackson as a prospect, and that puts him in the very low first round to second round.

Player Comparison: Ty Warren. Warren is a tough 5-technique for the Patriots, but not much of a pass rusher. Jackson loses some pass rush ability in the 3-4 scheme, but it all depends on how he is utilized, like Warren.

Messier 02-07-2013 11:59 AM

Yeah. Its what I thought, they're more bullish on Lotulelei than they were on Jackson.

BossChief 02-07-2013 12:36 PM

I'd rather get raped by a stick of lit dynamite than go with either of those mocks.

bowener 02-07-2013 01:17 PM

Jesus ****ing Christ. When, in recent history, has the draft ever shaped up to look like this? All Oline/Dline at the top of the draft?

BigCatDaddy 02-08-2013 09:19 AM

If they are 3 or more QB's taken in the top of the 1st then ESPN should fire Kiper. He doesn't have 1 projected anywhere in the 1st round. You can't be an expert in your field and miss THAT badly.

Saccopoo 02-09-2013 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightfyre (Post 9384541)
McShay assumes we need a 5-tech. Bad assumption.

Even if he does, Lotulelei is not a 34 five tech defensive end. Not even close. If you want to take a five tech defensive end prospect, you take his Ute teammate Joe Kruger. That's a five tech defensive end. Star is a 43 defensive tackle. His upside is, at the very most, Vince Wilfork, and I honestly don't think he's that good and I've personally seen nearly evey game he's played in.

Sfeihc 02-09-2013 11:08 AM

Kiper & McShay are stealin' money from the Worldwide Leader in terrible studio shows.

Chris Meck 02-09-2013 11:13 AM

well, you know....if these guys are right, it'd be pretty sweet to get Geno Smith at the top of round 2.

Except that that will never happen.

Saccopoo 02-09-2013 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Meck (Post 9389166)
well, you know....if these guys are right, it'd be pretty sweet to get Geno Smith at the top of round 2.

Except that that will never happen.

Not in a million years.

NJChiefsFan 02-09-2013 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigCatDaddy (Post 9386908)
If they are 3 or more QB's taken in the top of the 1st then ESPN should fire Kiper. He doesn't have 1 projected anywhere in the 1st round. You can't be an expert in your field and miss THAT badly.

ESPN doesn't consider being wrong a reason to fire an expert. In fact, it might actually add to your resume there. The more you piss people off the more people talk about you. Being well known is all that matters at ESPN.

BigMeatballDave 02-09-2013 05:47 PM

I guess they think it's 1995.

Pasta Little Brioni 02-09-2013 06:30 PM

How is completely blowing the number one pick and a 2-14 season on a position we don't need like LT "maximizing value"?

milkman 02-09-2013 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave (Post 9390193)
I guess they think it's 1995.

We're going to draft party like it's 1999.

BlackHelicopters 02-09-2013 08:45 PM

Hope Kiper gets ass raped tonight.

Bowser 02-09-2013 11:17 PM

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mai9w5YkiL1rol1w1.gif

Pasta Little Brioni 02-10-2013 06:39 AM

ESPN should be ashamed to employ these clowns...then I think about all the other garbage they employ. Maybe it's all a ruse.

NaptownChief 02-10-2013 10:54 AM

What stands out the most to me is that Tennessee has two first round WR's in their opinion and they still managed to suck. Hard to believe a program with that much money, facilities and fan base could fall so far.

NJChiefsFan 02-10-2013 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PGM (Post 9391114)
ESPN should be ashamed to employ these clowns...then I think about all the other garbage they employ. Maybe it's all a ruse.

The exec's made a bet with each other on how long they can continue to make ton's of money while only employing idiots.

Mother****erJones 02-10-2013 10:31 PM

Every other year these ****ing so-called experts say QBs will shoot up the draft, but ofcourse, the one year KC has it, no QB goes in rd 1. Youre gona tell me Geno Smith isnt as good or better than Ponder, Locker or Gabbert? Give me a ****ing break. Geno will have a great Combine, Pro Day and will go number 1 and Chiefsplanet can party like its 1999!

NJChiefsFan 02-11-2013 01:44 AM

Well shooting up the draft boards would most likely happen after the combine, and then the pro-days if needed.

Chiefshrink 02-11-2013 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NJChiefsFan (Post 9393153)
Well shooting up the draft boards would most likely happen after the combine, and then the pro-days if needed.

Yep. We'll be lucky if he decides to run the 40, standing long jump, and vertical jump because he ain't throwing that is for sure. The Under Armour Olympics:rolleyes:

ptlyon 02-11-2013 12:32 PM

So, why in the wide wide world of sports, would they put out new mocks, when the know it all bastards already made their decisions before???

htismaqe 02-11-2013 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefshrink (Post 9393218)
Yep. We'll be lucky if he decides to run the 40, standing long jump, and vertical jump because he ain't throwing that is for sure. The Under Armour Olympics:rolleyes:

He already said he's throwing.


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