Popcorn ceilings
 

Howdy all,
Happy New Year! I hope 2015 is your best year ever. I have lots of new challenges ahead of me for 2015. With that, I have recently purchased a condo and I have about 900 square feet of popcorn ceiling that I want to cover. It likely has asbestos, so I am going to hire someone to cover it with drywall, yes? Can anyone tell me how much I should budget for this (materials and labor)? I'm already having the whole place painted, so the paint may not have to be included.

I'm putting in engineered wood floors (glue down). I budgeted $10.00 sq. ft. installed is that too low, too high?

I'm in escrow now and will close mid to late January. If I could have found that G-spot, I probably wouldn't be buying this condo!

Look forward to hearing from you all.

G-spot about 4 inches in. better luck next time.

Why do you think the popcorn ceiling has asbestos?

$10/sq.ft. is an average price for the wood floors.

You have mesothelioma

Move Immediately

I've been told because it's pre early 1970's there's asbestos.

The popcorn ceiling will have a little 'sparkle' to it if it has asbestos.


Don't you need to remove it up if it does?

Even if it is asbestos you can scrape it off wet and wear a dust mask just to be safe. Cost near zero.

I would make 100% sure it has asbestos before I'd go through the expense of overlaying it. I'd imagine there should be a way to test it but I'm not an expert in the field by any means.

yea, if you haven't moved into the place yet then it shouldn't be that difficult to remove.

warm water/steam and a big wide scraper

Yes, there are testing kits at lowes.

Two different builders have told me it likely has asbestos. If I remove it, I need to hire pros, they say it's legal to cover because in theory your not disturbing the asbestos.

I've been told that once they scrape the ceiling, there no telling the shape of the surface underneath. It will still have to be sanded and prepped for painting. The time you spend scraping prepping, compared to covering isn't worth it. Yes, no?

I'm hiring someone to do this. I have a 57 year old back. :)

I don't blame you there.

Yes, every popcorn ceiling I've removed has needed some sanding and spot skimmed. I'd imagine that's where the asbestos concern lies, you don't want to be exposed to the dust. If you didn't have the the asbestos concerns, scraping/painting would be far less work than overlaying it.

Get it tested somehow, "likely" wouldn't cut it for me.

I really appreciate your input! If I did cover it, what do you think I should budget?

It's hard to say, there are so many variables that affect the price of a job like that. Could be anywhere from $2-4k? Call some contractors and get bids.

Permit, sales tax, general contractor fees, plus hanging with materials... probably about $2.50-$2.75 per square foot depending on location. Just hanging with materials is usually around $2.00 per square foot. I'd budget $2500 for it.

Do it yourself with some friends, probably cost you about $600 for drywall, mud and tape. Rent a lift for like $50.

2 dollars a sq foot. I had this done recently.

Sand? Go with the knockdown look, a think primer will help also.. I guess covering it is fine, but then it is just hiding the problem, you will need to disclose what you have done for future buyers..

Whatever these guys quote you, double it, California. Double it.

Most of the older popcorn ceilings in California were made with asbestos - and probably all over the country too. When I lived there in the 80s I got a notice from the management of my apartment (required by California law) stating that the ceiling had asbestos and telling us not to disturb it. People in other states may not know they have asbestos in their ceilings because there is no requirement they be told. People bitch about regulations in California, and certainly some of them are ridiculous, but notifying someone that they have asbestos in their ceiling is a good one.

Def much cheaper to scrape, ad do a little skimming of mud where the bad spots are. Are you planning on texturing the ceiling with Knockdown texture, or just going with a smooth finish?

Yeah, that's the variable that scares me since pretty much everything is more expensive in Cali.

In many places it would be illegal to remove it yourself, and I'm pretty sure California is one of those places. You need professionals with proper equipment to seal the room off and draw the dust out with pumps. Just wearing a mask isn't enough because that dust goes everywhere, including outside to your neighbors.

We had popcorn ceilings in all the rooms of new 2000 sq. ft. house.
We had it tested for asbestos for $20. Came back clean.
We payed a crew to come in and remove all the popcorn ceilings.
Put a skim coat of drywall on the ceilings.
Put 2 coats of primer and 2-3 coats of glossy paint on the ceiling.

They used water and some sort of scraper to get it off the ceilings. They were careful and did a good job but that damn dust gets everywhere.


They also tore out a soffit, a wall in a kitchen, removed tile off the wall, removed kitchen cabinets etc. so I don't know how much was these tasks and how much was the removal of the popcorn ceilings. Anyway, we paid $2400

Cover it or take out a loan, that's my advice haha. Before and after inspections will run $1000 and it'll probably cost you $2-3000 for removal. Then, you still have to deal with repairing the ceiling when the job is done, So you're probably adding at least another $1000 if you have someone just skim coat and paint. So I'm guessing you're going to end up in that $5,000 range. I dunno, probably would be good to get with a GC in your area and get an estimate.

If it's wet, there is no dust.

It takes some time and elbow grease but it's not hard to take that stuff down.

Get a mask to protect your lungs.....a tarp on the floor, a spray bottle with water and a drywall knife. Spray a small area, let it soak for a few seconds, lay the knife flat and scrape it off. The others are right, if you moisten it, it will come off in skim/chunks and won't be dusty.

If you do it right, it will look like an orange peel, prime and paint.

This is a simple project you can do and save some money. As far as the govt regulation..how in the holy hell are they going to know what you do to the ceiling in a house you own?

Yes there is, and it still doesn't matter with the law. Asbestos removal is dangerous and should be done by a professional - and in California where he lives he has to get a professional. And he has to have a licensed tester test for it, those Home Depot testing kits aren't legal in California.

You are giving him bad advice.

No, there isn't any dust at all if it's wet. It peels off like butter when it's wetted down and is wrapped up in the drop paper before it dries. Done this a hundred times. I don't live in california and I don't involve the government in my repair projects in any case.

Not my experience. There was no government permits involved in our home remodel either.

The guys we used come highly recommended. We were happy with the finished job. They would be working in another room. Sealed off nicely and my laptop would still have a layer of fine dust on it. We had to change out the air conditioner filters after the job was finished.

We also were buying the home. We wanted to know for sure if we had asbestos, not whether it was likely or not likely.

I know you hate the government, but if you put your health at risk just to spite them because you hate regulations YOU ARE AN IDIOT. In your effort to spite them you don't hurt them you only hurt yourself. But I guess it makes you feel "free" or something.

Dumbass.

I am not a remediation specialist, nor licensed to test for this stuff or whatever, and I'm not a lawyer either so please don't take any of this info as legal advice. Just sharing some of my experiences as far as my interaction with it throughout my real estate career.

That being said, here is a few things to take into consideration from what I have seen and been told...

Asbestos acts like a binder of sorts... Glue like characteristics at the molecular level if you will. This is the reason it was so widely used, and in so many products. Combine the substance you want to create a product out of with with asbestos and you can shape it any way you want etc etc.

Here is an example of the extensive list of products that used asbestos for production.

Asbestos Gaskets
Asbestos Sheets
Cigarette Filters
Electrical Cloth & Electrical Panel Partition
Fire Proofing & Prevention Materials
Fume Hoods & Laboratory Hoods
Plastics
Vinyl Products
Textile Cloths & Textile Garments
Construction Products
Adhesives and Gold Bond Adhesives
Construction Mastics & Gunning Mix
Ductwork Connectors & Flexible Duct Connectors
Floor Backing & Drywall Taping Compounds
Insulation
Zonolite Insulation

The whole point being that first off this is not necessarily a product that you can see with the naked eye for the products that contain it and those that don't.

I have an addition in my house that had popcorn ceilings, and the addition was done in the 50's. When I bought it, my inspector told be that the ceiling was "obviously" containing asbestos, and to just leave it alone if at all possible, but that if I were to mess with it I should either cover it up like you are planning on or have specialists come in and remove it at a potentially very high expense. My father (40+ years of construction experience) backed up what the inspector said as well, but just told me if I left it alone it wouldn't be a big deal or something I should worry about.

Only thing is that my ceiling actually DOESN'T have asbestos in it...

A few years after becoming a Realtor I needed to remodel my back room. Having learned a lot more about the subject I had a little better plan of action to work with. I went and got it tested, and it turned out that there was NO asbestos in my 50's popcorn ceiling. Imagine that! I was really excited, as opposed to having a several thousand dollar bill to remove it all in a safe manner so my child could be safe, I just drywalled a new ceiling for $150 bucks. Spending a simple $25 bucks was a lifesaver!

The thing is, most people don't even really know how easy it is to test for it and check it out, all most people know is that the specialists are really expensive. If I were checking it on my own house etc etc I wouldn't rely on a lowe's test or whatever, I would go straight to the horses mouth. There are labs out there that service exactly these types of things. The one that I use in Salt Lake is called ALS Laboratories.

http://www.alsglobal.com/en/Our-Serv...ity-Laboratory.

They have labs all over the world, perhaps they have one where you live? Testing is really easy, they just need about a golf balls size worth of material to test it. They will go through and check it to the parts per million level etc etc.


Lastly I will touch on another thing I never knew but was fascinated to learn.

FWIW...

Asbestos is actually a blanket term that encapsulates 6 totally different products:

http://www.asbestos.com/asbestos/types.php

It is important to understand what you are dealing with if in fact you DO have an asbestos situation to deal with. The different types have varying risks and health impacts depending on which "animal" you are dealing with. This stuff is all important to assess if you are planning on dealing with asbestos, and all the more reason to get it tested professionally. Also, realize that cutting out the chunk you are planning on testing is an at your own risk situation, and that perhaps if you are not comfortable with that risk you should have the sample removed from the ceiling by a professional.

Whatever you do, DON'T PAINT IT. If popcorn asbestos ceilings are painted they are significantly more difficult to remove. It's the difference between being able to spray the ceiling with a squirt bottle and leaving the room while it falls to the ground on its own, versus having to scrape it all off by hand.

This is a good post. If you ARE dealing with asbestos it is really serious stuff and should be dealt with the utmost care.

You'd think for such a regulated material there would be some rule stating asbestos be present would have to be disclosed when selling the structure.

If you haven't had it tested, how do you know? I guess you could force all homes being sold to do the test?

I thought we were talking California.

Every house sold in Cali has to be tested for asbestos?

It was a joke.

I know in California if you rent out a place you are required to disclose it has asbestos to the person renting it (I was a renter and got a notice). I would think that they would require it to be disclosed during a sale too, but I don't know about that.

Actually there is a loop hole in California law that says if you own the place and are the only one there you might be able to do it yourself.

AHHHH, in Cali, I could totally see them forcing people to test for asbestos.

Hell, we did it on our own just for our own piece of mind.

Hush. The men are talking, Betty White.

Can't you make your point without name-calling?

I have supervised an asbestos abatement crew before. I am a licensed general contractor. I know what I am talking about. You do not.

To the people abating the asbestos themselves, how are you disposing of it? It is the law to bag the asbestos in asbestos labeled 6 mil sealed plastic bags (not drop cloths). It also has to be hauled off to be buried in an asbestos certified area. You could be fined and jailed regardless if its a do it yourself project by the states public safety org.

What class abatement license do you have?

I have a class 2 license for abatement removal in the state of Kansas.

Maybe, but it would still be a stupid idea. Asbestos removal is not safe for you to remove yourself. Period.

He is giving very bad advice that is detrimental to others health and could also expose them to enormous fines. I will not hush.

Supposedly even one tiny speck of dust can cause serious health problems and even death, does this sound true to you Meatrock?

That was 20 years ago.

What would you charge to do removal in his home, to give an idea of current costs?

I don't blame you one bit.

If the abatement takes place in a commercial or residential area that would be rented, then air quality tests must be completed during and after the abatement process as well. Dust masks? LMFAO. Try a sealed hepa filter face mask for the worker and full tyvek body suits.

-Meatrock:


Also, I am basing my knowledge off of things I have been told on the matter, but fully acknowledge that I am not an expert on the issue.

That being said, does my description on the matter seem accurate to you?

No, it depends on the amount of fibers in the air and the duration of contact with said fibers. Hell the public is exposed to asbestos everyday.

Exactly. That is how they do it here in Hawaii too.

Depending on the square footage of the asbestos to be abated and where you live, i would put the costs into the thousands. It's an expensive job but really mandatory. KDHE will burn peeps asses in Kansas if not done correctly and safely.

It also depends on what type of asbestos you are dealing with. Chrysotile is most commonly used in homes and flakes fibers easily. Other asbestos types really aren't as dangerous as they are non-friable.

Also, water to wet the asbestos down is not good enough, the water has to be mixed with serfactum (if my spelling is correct) here in Kansas. Serfactum makes the water wetter for a longer period of time. Lots of people say how do you make water wetter, well you can't, but it prolongs the wet process of the water.

To the OP, some states will not allow the asbestos to be covered with drywall if it's a multi-living quarters condo. They will make it mandatory for the asbestos to be abated if there is a floor above the ceiling.

Times are changing my friend as the regulations are becoming stricter every year regarding asbestos.

Surfactant. Same with mold remediation. Add a small amount of dawn dish soap to the water.

No, you don't. Removal of asbestos by anyone without a license is illegal except in very few instances where it removed in a single family nresidence by the homeowner.

while it does greatly mitigate the risk it is inaccurate to say there is not dust at all. any friable material, of which textured ceiling would qualify, has the potential to create dust even when wetted. That is why it is regulated to a greater extent than non friable ACM (such as VAT).

this is incorrect. glitter was sometimes applied in the 70s and 80s to ceilings, has nothing to do with asbestos.

now, here is a pretty good post from another forum regarding removal of ceiling texture. Be aware CA probably has more stringent laws.

Everything Mikeyis4dcats posted is absolutely correct.

I've had 3 different contractors tell me that they have no issues dry walling over it. They all said if I wanted to removed the popcorn, I would need to have it professionally tested and likely professionally removed. All of them said that because of the year the condo was built it probably has asbestos, so I'm going to go with covering it, rather than removing. This thread has been very, very helpful. Every time I revisit Chiefsplanet, I'm glad I do.

Did you try having all this worked into the purchase agreement? This is something the seller should have been paying for I would think.

Is this true? kccrow said $2.75 sq. ft. or $2,500. KC kid said $2.00 sq. ft. or $1,800. So I should budget $3,600 - $5,000 to cover the popcorn? Thanks!

If it was built after 1978 you're probably OK, bit there are cheap test kits.


Spray it with water, scrape it off, and retexture it

Just do like alot of people do every day, hire some Mexicans to get rid of it. Alot of people I know have done this for many years on their rent properties.

Jimmy's got some ideas.

Jimmy's not intimidated by Mexicans.

Jimmy doesn't like government intervention or laws.

Jimmy likes slumlords.

Lol.... Bottom line is that you dudes must not know the real world. Shit like this goes on every freaking day. It's tough on lots of contractors because Mexicans will do any job at a cheap price and most of jobs they do turn out bad ass. Just saying.

I'd love to find someone to remove the 900 sq ft or so that I have. I had a Mexican guy tell me he would bring his crew over for $500.

Just make sure they're not wearing hoodies

Maybe set up a sting operation? Turn the heat off before they start.

LMAO

Jimmy doesn't care if Mexicans die of mesothelioma.

Jimmy's not intimidated by an international investigation or human rights violations.

Jimmy accepts the Mexican lifestyle.