So good!!

I think people who have felt that this season has been too slow so far, just got their reason to keep watching.

HBO : Nasty as they wanna be

I haven't watched any of this season yet, but what was it? Melisandre giving birth?

Yep. And it was STRAIGHT out of the book.

And what the hell? Take a half day off from work and get caught up, for cryin out loud.

And they really fast forwarded Dany's storyline, but I guess they really didn't have any choice. She muddled through that desert forever before they found the dead city, much less Quarth.

Somebody spoiler me wtf that was that crawled out of her birth canal.

It's a "shadow".

If you want spoilers anyhow. It is a shadow, which will serve in the capacity of making good on what Stannis said.

I never really got the whole shadow birth thing, but non-readers have to be saying WTF? I know my wife was. Hell, even Davos was! Only really one other big magical presence in this book besides the shadow assasin and the warging of the wolves. Speaking of wolves, I loved the beginning scene when Grey Wind leads the attack, was that Robb warging Grey Wind?

I wonder if he wargs like the others. Sansa never showed any signs of it before Lady was killed. Without a POV from him it is hard to say if he warg'd at all.

And yeah, that was very cool. And I like how they are introducing his love interest so far, even if I don't like where it will end up in the slightest.

I think Sansa gives a hint of warging ability with the dog at Littlefinger's house later on. Arya certainly can warg which she uses to her advantage when she is blinded, plus she has the wolf dreams like Bran. Bran and Jon can warg also. So I am pretty sure Robb and Rickon probably can as well, even if it is never explicitly stated in the books.

So here's what I get from The Game of Thrones battlefield so far:
The Targaryens/Dothraki have Dragons...
The Starks have Wolves...
The red headed chick has the anti-christ...
There is a zombie-like army north of the wall...
and King Joffrey has an imp....
I've got to give it to the Dothraki with the red head coming in a close second.

Except I don't think we see the birthing until the second shadow is "born" to kill the castellan at Storm's End (not sure on location). The shadow that murders Renly just shows up out of nowhere and Davos escorts Melisandre to take the stronghold later on. But I did read the books a while ago so maybe I screwed the order up.

Intentional. Trying something new. Going to watch the season 1 blu-ray and then season 2 in chunks once sweeps is over.

In the books the birthing of the shadow baby is to kill Penrose who is holding Storm's End after Renly is killed by the first shadow (we don't see that one being born in the books). The show has eliminated the Penrose aspect of the story as it is unecessarily complicated to explain on screen, so I think this shadow baby on the show will just be to kill Renly. One shadow killing is enough for the show I guess.

They got Rat nasty this week! That one made my wife pretty squeamish. I was worried for Sansa too! I'm not too squeamish, but I did not want to see her get stripped and tortured. Thanks God Tyrion intervened. Too bad for the whores though. Joffery is an evil twat.

I thought for a second that he was going to make her sodomize the other chick with that scepter, I was actually a little relieved when she hit her with it instead.

No shit. And she kept holding it with the horned end forward. :eek:

Martin never really says one way or the other about Robb. However, there have been accounts in the books from other characters talking about how the two (Robb and Grey Wind) seemed to be like the same creature almost, especially in battle. There is no way of knowing how developed the ability was, or if Robb ever realized what was taking place. I suspect not, or he probably never would have allowed himself to be separated (physically) from the wolf.

Just my take on it.

No

Bran is the most specific with the Warging. The others have a "closeness" but save Arya none take it to the level that Bran does.

Arya definitely wargs a cat.

Jon definitely wargs Ghost.

Bran is the most powerful of them all and actually reaches out to Jon in his dream to get Jon to open his mind to Ghost (that's when Jon sees the wildlings through Ghost's eyes).

We don't get POV chapters for Robb or Rickon, so we can't say for certain that they do warg Grey Wind and Shaggy Dog, but there are strong indications that they do. I think they just showed Robb doing it on the show at the beginning of this episode.

Sansa is the biggest question because we do get POVs but she hasn't fully warged in them. But I do seem to recall a hint of that when she's with Littlefinger, I'd have to re-read to say for sure. With her wolf being killed, her ability may be lost or hindered.

Bran clearly has the strongest ability, perhaps because he lost his legs, sort of how blind people can end up with better hearing to compensate for the loss of one of their senses.

So I guess I think they all can, just Bran is the best at it and Sansa is the weakest, both likely due to their unique circumstances.

Excellent post. Excellent reasoning. This is where I've landed on the issue as well. Makes sense.

I believe Jon also warged an eagle when searching for the wildling camps.

I thought Jon warged into Ghost while looking for wildlings, then he woke up freaking out when Ghost got attacked by an eagle?

I believe the eagle was orell warging out. Then jon kills the eagle, orell's spirit (still in the eagle) scars jon, varamyr wargs the eagle and then melisandre kills the eagle with varamyr behind the wheel, driving varamyr insane and destroying orell's spirit.

Or something like that. Lots of warging north of the wall.

Its been a while, but I thought at some point that Jon received a vision of the wildling camp and I thought he was seeing through the eagle's eyes. I really need to re-read the damn books.

I think Jon sees the wildling camp through Ghost's eyes while warging, and then Ghost is attacked by the eagle. The eagle is being warged by one of the wildlings, and apparently one warg can generally spot another fairly easily, so the eagle knew Jon was spying on them through Ghost and thus attacked Ghost to drive him away.

Later Jon kills the man warging the eagle when Jon and Halfhand find their outpost, and that apparently traps the man inside the eagle. Halfhand kills the other man at the outpost, and Jon goes to kill the third person but discovers it is a woman (Ygritte), so he lets her go. When Jon is captured by the wildlings, Ygritte vouches for him being a warg and for him letting her go when he could have killed her, and then Jon kills the Halfhand (per his orders), and the wildlings vote to allow Jon to join them. At that meeting Ygritte tells Jon he trapped the guy inside the eagle when he killed him and the guy/eagle is pissed about it.

Can we talk about the nurse that Robb meets in the field after the battle? I don't remember ever reading about her in the book (of course Robb never gets a POV, but I don't even remember her being discussed with Cat or whomever). Who is she? Is she going to take the place of Jeyne Westerling? What do we think?

That actress was originally listed as being cast as Jeyne, so she should be Robb's love interest, even if they don't call her Jeyne Westerling. But I am curious about that too, it will be interesting to see how that develops. She may have just been lying to Robb about who she is. I'm guessing Robb will get hurt and she'll end up nursing him back to health and they will fall in love, but who knows.

They could leave the Westerlings out of the show completely and just have Jon marry someone from Volantis. It accomplishes the plot device of pissing off the Freys just as well.

Ah. Cool. Good to know. That is interesting. I sort of like the idea that she will be Jeyne, but she's hiding her identity. Though that may be too complicated and unnecessary.
Very good point. And that's probably the best/simplest solution. But it also seems weird to just create another character. She could still be Jeyne Westerling and you could still leave out everything else.

Whatever. Ultimately, doesn't really matter. I was just curious if I was missing something.

My guess was that it is her, but she didn't want him to know who she really was. But it could be that they re-named Jeyne for some reason?

There are theories out there that Jeyne was pregnant with Robb's child when Robb was killed and that she went into hiding to protect the baby. If the show eliminates the character of Jeyne Westerling, then I think that pretty much blows that theory up (not that I think it is a good one necessarily, the evidence is pretty weak).

If you are interested, it is in the "Heir to the North" essay on the Tower of the Hand website's essays page. They have some excellent essays there, but I think that one is a bit of a stretch.

Here is the link to the essay:

http://towerofthehand.com/blog/2010/...rth/index.html

I think we'll see a lot more of this as the show progresses - because the books become so completely convoluted that it would simply be impossible for show to follow them closely. Can you imagine an entire season of the show without Tyrion, for example?

Absolutely agree.

Robb gonna chop off his head for breaking his vows.

See, I am already getting screwed up with the characters. I know nothing.

Yep, that sounds right.

Just got back from my honeymoon and finally got caught up on the last two episodes last night. I don't remember which episode it was, but did anyone else think that Joffrey's crossbow was THE crossbow? I thought it was cool of them to throw it in there early on in the series.

Actually, that hadn't crossed my mind. But I like it!

I've hit the last third of the second book in my re-read. Lots of good stuff happening, the second half of this season on the show should be pretty good!

I had forgotten the details of Arya's story and how Vargo Hoat switches sides and joins up with the Starks (Roose Bolton and his men) after J'aqen helps Arya free the captured northmen. They fed Amory Lorch to the big black bear, I had forgotten that as well. Arya thinks that it's appropriate since he killed Yoren, and the bear that killed him is black like the Nights Watch. I am really curious where they'll go with Arya being Tywin's cupbearer since that is not in the books (she's Roose Bolton's cupbearer).

Holy crap! I never thought about that, but you might be right.

For those that don't watch South Park, Mr. Garrison was teaching a class on the family hierarchy of Game of Thrones to third graders tonight. This as well as the rest of the episode was pretty damn funny.

Cartman's All-4-One cover was the best thing since his obsessive recitation of Come Sail Away.

Things are sarting to move along.

Renly dying scene was handled well and I thought Brienne did a great job in that one.

Arya telling Tywin that "anyone can be killed" was excellent, my favorite non-book moment of the night. I really like the young actress playing Arya. I enjoyed the parts with her and Jaquen as well.

They gave tons of hints about what Theon is about to do, but my wife (non-reader) still didn't quite pick up on them. She is still going ot be a little sruprised when he takes Winterfell. I think she still wants to believe he has some loyalty to the Starks so she can't really imagine him taking Winterfell at this point. She's in for a rude awakening.

Yeah, the look on Tywin's face is chilling. He had such a cold-blooded, reptilian look in his eyes as he's staring at Arya.

I was a bit suprised by the Fist of the First Men. In my mind it was in the middle of a forest, but I may have misread it. And I expected there to be a bit more ruins.

I haven't seen the ep yet but I always envisioned it as the top of a hill, in an area either completely clear of trees or with sparse forestation.

I was thinking the same thing, but the location they chose definitely has massively cool potential.

Dinkledge's interrogation of Lancel, his reaction to Demon Monkey & taking control of wildfire -alone are deserving of an award nomination.

Seeing Roy Dotrice as Hallyane the Pyromancer was pretty cool in this episode, but as a fan if the audio books. I loved hearing his voice again. It definitely added depth to the character's dialogue when he's talking about former kings. You know that Dotrice is very steep into the history of this story.

The thing I like about Arya's line is that while it was a threat toward Tywin, it also held sadness. She knows that anyone can be killed, because her father (who most children see as invincible) was killed. She knows that Rob can be killed as well. Anyone can die. Yes, she hopes to kill Tywin, but she could just as easily be killed.

BTW- In episode 5, Dotrice looked as old as he sounded while reading Dance with Dragons. Dude sounded seriously ill in parts of that audiobook. I read & listen to all the books (which helps me pick up all the detail as I go), and Dotrice's reading shaped many of the characters in mind. He's a huge part of SOIAF to me. I wish he could have had a larger role in the show.

Have any of you seen the unaired pilot with a few alternate cast members? I'm wondering if Dotrice played Maester Luwin in that one.

I know it had been said already but Dinklage is completely owning Tyrion. Masterful job.

I was kind of worried when Tywin picked Arya to be his cup bearer but i realize why they did that instead of the way in the book. I just hope they don't do something stupid and have her the one that kills him.

This is how I saw it as well. I really like the banter between her and Tywin. He clearly senses that she's not your run-of-the-mill urchin.

Stop dragging turds from the DC toilet into this forum

I just know Dany looked hot in her dress lol

It was a bit of a disappointment that sex happy HBO decided not to do the proper Qaarth gowns that Dany wears in the books with one breast showing. I was fully expecting some Dany boobage last night!

Or was that Yunkai?

i thought she was going to put the dress on when she was with the 2 chicks in the room. I was like lets see some tits! NO Dany Tits so far this year :(

If HBO cuts out the Dany lesbo scene I will not be pleased. Especially after they made up the Renly nancy boy scenes just to draw in the TrueBlood crowd.

No shit....she is ****ing hawt!

Anyone know if we're gonna see Strong Belwas in the show? Dude's a badass.

I am seriously hoping we get Strong Belwas next season. We may get the Reed kids as well. I read somewhere that they were going to fill in a few missing roles next season. Strong Belwas is a must just for his one big moment. Book readers may riot if we don't get to see his fight.

Since they have to bring Ser Barristan into the story, I believe Strong Belwas accompanied him. I like the odds.

The only problem is Barristan and Belwas come in at the end of book 2, and we have a casting for Barristan, but there has never been any listing for a casting of Belwas. My hope is that even if they did not cast him for what would basically be one episode, that they do cast him for nex season when he has a little bigger role.

Same with the Reeds, they can just meet up with Bran on the road or after Winterfell is burned. Saves the show a season of casting for those characters who aren't really that important just yet.

They already did something like that with Jaqen where we saw "him" on the cell cart season 1. Maybe Belwas will just be a figure in a cloak standing nearby, and the Reeds will just turn up.

The dragons are going to have to start getting bigger quickly. If they stick with the books, Drogon will need to burn down the House of the Undying this season, right? I can't really see that happening at his current, tiny size.

Well, she carries Drogon in on her shoulder, so he was still small. He burns it down by breathing fire on the floating heart and trying to eat it. Then the fire spreads quickly as everything in there, including the undying themselves, is old, brittle, and ready to go up in flames.

Yeah. We might not have really seen what even a tiny dragon can do at this point, as well. They may be saving that for that particular scene. He's all dainty and such with his flame when eh's eating the meat she offers. Maybe he can go beast mode with the flame when he wants, even as a small dragon.

Two questions...

1 - Was the masked lady (who spoke to Jorah) in the books? If so, was her identity ever revealed?

2 - When Dany was getting Drogon to char the meat, she kept saying a word that I didn't recognize. Did they change the name "Drogon" to something else?

Yeah, at first I was disappointed that there were no Reeds this season. But once I realized the sheer number of new characters that NEEDED to be introduced this season (Stannis, Melisandre, Davos, Brienne, Craster, Qhorin, Gendry, Roose, Balon, Asha, etc), I realized why they had to leave them out. Hopefully they will be introduced in Season 3.

Can't really have the series without the Reeds - they'll get them in there.

The masked lady is in the books, they call her Quaithe. She appears a couple of times and gives short prophecies to Dany. Her true identity has not been revealed in the books, but supposedly she is a priestess from Asshai who lives in Qarth and was one of the ones who rode out to greet Dany in the books. Here are her main prophecies:

Book 2:

"To go north, you must journey south, to reach the west you must go east. To go forward you must go back and to touch the light you must pass beneath the shadow."

Book 5:

"The glass candles are burning. Soon comes the pale mare, and after her the others. Kraken and dark flame, lion and griffin, the sun's son and the mummer's dragon. Trust none of them. Remember the Undying. Beware the perfumed seneschal."


As for Dany's word to Drogon, that is her command to make him breathe fire, it is a Dothraki word. He is still named Drogon, she was trying to train him to cook his own meat.

Why not?

{checks to ensure still in spoiler thread}

Because Jojen is critical to Bran's understanding of his gifts and Meera is kinda the leader of the crew that keeps them alive past Winterfell's fall. Really, without Jojen, I don't see how Bran ever really learns how to control his ability to warg.

You could theoretically remove them, but they'd have to be replaced by some plot device whereby Bran learns more about his green dreams and develops a formidable traveling group. I guess you could just have Osha take on multiple roles, but really Bran's character development would suffer quite a bit without the Reeds, IMO. You're starting to stretch Osha's character pretty thin (suddenly she's not just a former wildling, but also a wildling with fairly mystical knowledge; where the hell did that come from?). Moreover, what do you do with Rickon? He leaves the group and goes beyond the wall with Osha; so who is Bran traveling with? That's when he learns the most about his skills and the history north of the wall. Pretty sure Hodor doesn't offer much help for him there...

And to tell you the truth, I don't think GRRM is done with them (though I think Bran stays in the cave, personally). They'd have to really screw with the books to make that stuff work without the Reeds - so why bother? Just put 'em in there.

I think that they'll be in the show in some form, but they may not be "The Reeds". They could just as easily be introduced as wildlings of mountain folk that they run into after escaping Winterfell. I agree that they need some mechanism for Bran to develop his powers, and I can't imagine creating a new mechanism from scratch when there are already characters from the book that you could draw from.

Fair enough. To me they could have other characters get Bran to the wall and off to see the people under the ground.You are right, we don't know what Martin has in store for the greenseer and his sister.

So again - why not just have it be the Reeds?

If you have to throw a handful of other characters in anyway, just use the ones that Martin gave you (seeing as how you have absolutely no idea where they'll end up anyway).

I guess the fact that Martin has a hand in the development of the series could be something of a giveaway to the books. If we don't see the Reeds show up in the television series, it probably means that Martin doesn't have much in store for them in the book and that Bran's journeys are probably pretty close to over.

Now it's just a matter of the Children of the Forest showing him how to do his thing as a tree root or something. I suppose the Reeds have served their purpose in the story and they can probably just get bumped off now.

The Reeds will not be in the show. They already gave Jojen's prophetic dream to Bran, and prior to the season it was announced that Osha would be traveling with Bran. She's his advisor of all things Warg. What will happen to Rickon if Osha is with Bran? Your guess is as good as mine.

Stannis has grown on me.