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Quesadilla Joe 04-10-2017 10:09 AM

Ouch...

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">If you only watched QB Patrick Mahomes vs West Virginia this year I&#39;m not sure you&#39;d draft him, let alone in the 1st round.</p>&mdash; Sam Monson (@PFF_Sam) <a href="https://twitter.com/PFF_Sam/status/851464386673868800">April 10, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

EDIT: Apparently Mahomes played with a sprained throwing shoulder in that game FWIW.

staylor26 04-10-2017 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quesadilla Joe (Post 12817479)
Ouch...

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">If you only watched QB Patrick Mahomes vs West Virginia this year I&#39;m not sure you&#39;d draft him, let alone in the 1st round.</p>&mdash; Sam Monson (@PFF_Sam) <a href="https://twitter.com/PFF_Sam/status/851464386673868800">April 10, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

EDIT: Apparently Mahomes played with a sprained throwing shoulder in that game FWIW.

You're so scared at the thought of us drafting a QB it's hilarious LMAO I've never seen you this active on DP.

Quesadilla Joe 04-10-2017 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staylor26 (Post 12817527)
You're so scared at the thought of us drafting a QB it's hilarious LMAO I've never seen you this active on DP.

I was active here last year but I wasn't as engaged leading up to the draft because we had the last pick in every round.

And again, I don't care who KC drafts. Denver does what Denver what does, and whatever the rest of the division does, doesn't matter.

raybec 4 04-10-2017 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quesadilla Joe (Post 12817561)
I was active here last year but I wasn't as engaged leading up to the draft because we had the last pick in every round.

And again, I don't care who KC drafts. Denver does what Denver what does, and whatever the rest of the division does, doesn't matter.

Yeah, they've drafted really well in the Elway era........or not

staylor26 04-10-2017 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quesadilla Joe (Post 12817561)
I was active here last year but I wasn't as engaged leading up to the draft because we had the last pick in every round.

And again, I don't care who KC drafts. Denver does what Denver what does, and whatever the rest of the division does, doesn't matter.

Denver isn't in the market for a QB, so why all the posts about the QB's? :hmmm:

Quesadilla Joe 04-10-2017 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staylor26 (Post 12817564)
Denver isn't in the market for a QB, so why all the posts about the QB's? :hmmm:

I'm reading a lot of draft coverage and I just post the QB/KC related stuff I come across here.

-King- 04-10-2017 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staylor26 (Post 12817564)
Denver isn't in the market for a QB, so why all the posts about the QB's? :hmmm:

Who cares what his reason for posting the articles and tweets are. They're good information and unless you're going to post them, why complain about who does it?
Posted via Mobile Device

staylor26 04-10-2017 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -King- (Post 12818970)
Who cares what his reason for posting the articles and tweets are. They're good information and unless you're going to post them, why complain about who does it?
Posted via Mobile Device

Who the **** is complaining? I'm giving KnowMo shit for clearly trolling. Sit your ass down.

Quesadilla Joe 04-11-2017 04:55 AM

From Jason La Canfora...

Quote:

After that tier, there are two other quarterbacks under first-round consideration in Notre Dame’s DeShone Kizer and Cal’s Davis Webb, but the sense I get from the scouting community is they are heading in very different directions. Kizer might just slip out of the round entirely with execs not sold on his attitude and maturity, while Webb continues to generate a groundswell of support. It could end up becoming much closer between those two than most would have expected back in September.

As for other quarterback landing spots, very quietly, the Los Angeles Chargers are doing ample work on quarterbacks and at seventh overall might be more motivated to find a replacement for Philip Rivers than many believe. And the Saints are going to take a quarterback with one of their two first-round picks (No. 11, No. 32) in all likelihood as well. The Cardinals are trying to gauge internally what it might take to move up from No. 13 to get a quarterback -- I continue to hear a strong buzz about them and Watson -- but that price might be prohibitive. Regardless, the Cardinals spent a lot of time last week getting to know these quarterbacks better.

The Texans are drafting a quarterback high -- they have to with an acute, pressing need -- and I don’t think Mahomes gets past them as his floor. The Chiefs are very deep in this as well with Andy Reid quite interested in seeing if one of these kids could be a franchise guy for him down the road while the Saints close the round out with the 32nd pick. Four of these QBs will end up going in the first round, I would be willing to bet, and after Trubisky it could go in several different directions.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/20...-could-plunge/

Quesadilla Joe 04-11-2017 08:13 AM

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Ole Miss QB Chad Kelly had surgery Monday for an acute rupture of ligament between two bones in throwing wrist. No throwing for 3 months.</p>&mdash; Tom Pelissero (@TomPelissero) <a href="https://twitter.com/TomPelissero/status/851797548398411776">April 11, 2017</a></blockquote>
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Quesadilla Joe 04-11-2017 11:44 AM

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Patrick Mahomes is like drafting a guy with all the attributes to be a top QB in component form, but someone&#39;s got to put them all together.</p>&mdash; Sam Monson (@PFF_Sam) <a href="https://twitter.com/PFF_Sam/status/851836191943143426">April 11, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">And the only issue with this is there&#39;s no instruction booklet. It&#39;s all on the guy who takes him on. <a href="https://t.co/Y0dE6XZQS2">https://t.co/Y0dE6XZQS2</a></p>&mdash; Sam Monson (@PFF_Sam) <a href="https://twitter.com/PFF_Sam/status/851837291316359168">April 11, 2017</a></blockquote>
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The Franchise 04-11-2017 11:46 AM

And Reid is the guy to do it.

Quesadilla Joe 04-11-2017 11:47 AM

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Patrick Mahomes II said on <a href="https://twitter.com/espn">@espn</a> he is going back to Indianapolis this week to have his left wrist re-examined during NFL medical re-checks.</p>&mdash; Adam Schefter (@AdamSchefter) <a href="https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/851853930296467456">April 11, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Pasta Little Brioni 04-11-2017 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staylor26 (Post 12813969)
Way to not bold the positive take on Mahomes pro day KnowShit

:rolleyes:

He's a piece of shit (knowmo)

Pasta Little Brioni 04-11-2017 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quesadilla Joe (Post 12814084)
LMAO

I'm just reading what's out there and post the QB stuff I come across because I know you guys are following the QB's.

I honestly don't care who KC drafts and genuinely believe Paxton Lynch would've been the best QB in this draft class had he stayed in college.

Huh? Lynch would be like the 6th best prospect this year. Doesn't matter anyway, it's already been proved he's a complete fsilure in the NFL. A sub Biff Assweiler level QB.

Pasta Little Brioni 04-11-2017 12:01 PM

It would suck to draft a poverty QB like Pickston Lynch, guys

BossChief 04-11-2017 02:57 PM

i really hope we draft Mahomes, but I'd be ok with Trubisky or maybe even Watson...not as interested in Kizer in the first though.

Quesadilla Joe 04-11-2017 03:48 PM

DJ was on one of the Ringer podcasts recently and talked about the QB class a bit... He said he has no idea where the QB's will go, said he thinks Watson could go in the top 5 or the last pick in the first round. Also said that early on in the season he had a chance to watch Kizer play live and left the game thinking that he'd win the Heisman and would be a lock to be the #1 overall pick.

He starts talking about the QB's at the 18:20 mark...

<iframe width="100%" height="450" scrolling="no" frameborder="no" src="https://w.soundcloud.com/player/?url=https%3A//api.soundcloud.com/tracks/317017728&amp;auto_play=false&amp;hide_related=false&amp;show_comments=true&amp;show_user=true&amp;s how_reposts=false&amp;visual=true"></iframe>

Mr. Laz 04-11-2017 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BossChief (Post 12819826)
i really hope we draft Mahomes, but I'd be ok with Trubisky or maybe even Watson...not as interested in Kizer in the first though.

I just don't see Mahomes has the guy that Reid would want.

Gunslinger, risk taker, Cannon arm

I would really be surprised if Reid goes the "Brett Favre" route.


I still think that Watson,Evans,Kaaya and even Peterman are more likely Reid's "type"

Tribal Warfare 04-12-2017 02:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Laz (Post 12820625)
I just don't see Mahomes has the guy that Reid would want.

Gunslinger, risk taker, Cannon arm

I would really be surprised if Reid goes the "Brett Favre" route.


I still think that Watson,Evans,Kaaya and even Peterman are more likely Reid's "type"

Reid did draft Foles and McNabb. , Andy got Vick a paid and retained Bray over two QBS who fit the game manager mold

DJ's left nut 04-12-2017 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tribal Warfare (Post 12820703)
Reid did draft Foles and McNabb. , Andy got Vick a paid and retained Bray over two QBS who fit the game manager mold

And Kevin Kolb had a gunslinger rep coming out of college as well.

When Reid has nothing under center, he'll take the safe route to ensure a baseline. But Reid isn't Marty - the safest possible option is not his preferred route. If he could get a Brett Favre in here, he'd do it in a heartbeat.

Mr. Laz 04-12-2017 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tribal Warfare (Post 12820703)
Reid did draft Foles and McNabb. , Andy got Vick a paid and retained Bray over two QBS who fit the game manager mold

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 12821011)
And Kevin Kolb had a gunslinger rep coming out of college as well.

When Reid has nothing under center, he'll take the safe route to ensure a baseline. But Reid isn't Marty - the safest possible option is not his preferred route. If he could get a Brett Favre in here, he'd do it in a heartbeat.

This draft is going to be very telling.

If the chiefs pass on a QB early in this draft, it tells you how Reid really feels about Alex Smith. If the Chiefs pass on a gunslinger for a more conservative QB, then that also tells us a lot.

Coogs 04-12-2017 01:31 PM

I posted this in Walter's Mock Draft thread, but am going to put it here too.

I'd actually be pretty happy with Watson. It was pretty interesting to hear Gruden go through Watson's interceptions with him on Gruden's football camp. Showed him, and told him, how he could have easily cleaned up 6 or 7 of them. It was really interesting. If you don't want to watch it, communication between Watson and his O-line and Watson and his receivers was the key to most of the interceptions.

In fact, Gruden said once Watson and his professional teammates could communicate on the same page (getting the play and the audible play called and remembering it), he has all the tools to make be successful. BTW, Watson majored in communication in college. Completed his degree in 3 years.

Watson is my #1 choice at this point.

DJ's left nut 04-12-2017 01:33 PM

"Majored in Communications"

So do a bunch of stumbling ass idiots that play football. Comm and Business - the staples of any good athletic department. Well that and 'undecided' or 'general studies'. Those are pretty good as well.

You're reaching something awful when you're citing his friggen Communications degree as a reason to draft the guy.

Coogs 04-12-2017 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 12821337)
"Majored in Communications"

So do a bunch of stumbling ass idiots that play football. Comm and Business - the staples of any good athletic department. Well that and 'undecided' or 'general studies'. Those are pretty good as well.

You're reaching something awful when you're citing his friggen Communications degree as a reason to draft the guy.

Not exactly my point.

Dude has skills.

Mr. Laz 04-12-2017 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coogs (Post 12821334)
I posted this in Walter's Mock Draft thread, but am going to put it here too.

I'd actually be pretty happy with Watson. It was pretty interesting to hear Gruden go through Watson's interceptions with him on Gruden's football camp. Showed him, and told him, how he could have easily cleaned up 6 or 7 of them. It was really interesting. If you don't want to watch it, communication between Watson and his O-line and Watson and his receivers was the key to most of the interceptions.

In fact, Gruden said once Watson and his professional teammates could communicate on the same page (getting the play and the audible play called and remembering it), he has all the tools to make be successful. BTW, Watson majored in communication in college. Completed his degree in 3 years.

Watson is my #1 choice at this point.

My gut feeling is that Watson is Andy Reid's number 1 choice at the QB position as well.

Smart,mobile,tough and more of a short/middle range thrower.

Maybe Andy Reid is just adapting to his current QB or maybe Reid is changing with age. I get the feeling that Andy just doesn't want more hassles in his life. He wants a more conservative type QB now.

If the Chiefs could pick any QB in the draft, I think it would be Watson.

More gut feelings on my part, but I think that Watson is the only guy that would get the Chiefs to pick a QB in the 1st round this year.

DJ's left nut 04-12-2017 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coogs (Post 12821352)
Not exactly my point.

Dude has skills.

They all do.

But For Trubisky, Mahomes, Kizer and even Webb, the first skills you list will have something to do with him actually throwing a football.

Watson, OTOH, you'd rave about intangibles and athleticism and accomplishments in college. He has a backwards skill-set.

Not a guy that I'd want to use a 1st on.

Mr. Laz 04-12-2017 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 12821457)
They all do.

But For Trubisky, Mahomes, Kizer and even Webb, the first skills you list will have something to do with him actually throwing a football.

Watson, OTOH, you'd rave about intangibles and athleticism and accomplishments in college. He has a backwards skill-set.

Not a guy that I'd want to use a 1st on.

In the NFL, it seems to me that intangibles actually turn out to be THE key attribute.

Of course, you need a certain level of physical skills but the mental aspect is what is most important in the long run. Work ethic,football IQ,Mental toughness,Ability to process quickly etc


look around at all the studs at QB who fail

DJ's left nut 04-12-2017 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Laz (Post 12821523)
In the NFL, it seems to me that intangibles actually turn out to be THE key attribute.

Of course, you need a certain level of physical skills but the mental aspect is what is most important in the long run. Work ethic,football IQ,Mental toughness,Ability to process quickly etc


look around at all the studs at QB who fail

They can't be the first thing people talk about.

That gets you Chad Pennington after his shoulder injury. Shit, that gets you Alex Smith.

There are 1,000 Ken Dorsey's out there and for some reason people want to talk about the big-armed passers as though THOSE are the guys that fail all the time. No - those are the guys we expected to succeed that didn't. The noodle-armed 'intangibles' guys just vanished into nothingness and nobody noticed because nobody ever expected them to accomplish anything at this level.

For every Kyle Boller there's a Charlie Ward. just because we remember the 'sexier' prospects better when they fail doesn't mean they weren't better prospects to begin with. In fact, it's the opposite - we remember them because we didn't expect them to suck. But when some weak-armed 'winner' in college goes nowhere in the pros, nobody remembers and nobody cares because we knew that guy was a bad prospect anyway.

The Franchise 04-12-2017 04:26 PM

I put the failing more on the plate of the team vs. the rookie QB. Say for instance....if the Browns decided they want Mahomes at 12 and end up starting him 6 games into the season and he fails horribly. That's on the Browns but you'll hear people scream about how Mahomes was a horrible QB and anyone who wanted the Chiefs to draft him was an idiot. They'll neglect to mention that everyone here wanted to draft Mahomes and then sit him for a year.

milkman 04-12-2017 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 12821535)
They can't be the first thing people talk about.

That gets you Chad Pennington after his shoulder injury. Shit, that gets you Alex Smith.

There are 1,000 Ken Dorsey's out there and for some reason people want to talk about the big-armed passers as though THOSE are the guys that fail all the time. No - those are the guys we expected to succeed that didn't. The noodle-armed 'intangibles' guys just vanished into nothingness and nobody noticed because nobody ever expected them to accomplish anything at this level.

For every Kyle Boller there's a Charlie Ward. just because we remember the 'sexier' prospects better when they fail doesn't mean they weren't better prospects to begin with. In fact, it's the opposite - we remember them because we didn't expect them to suck. But when some weak-armed 'winner' in college goes nowhere in the pros, nobody remembers and nobody cares because we knew that guy was a bad prospect anyway.

The first thing that people talk about is arm talent, but you look at the list of the greatest QBs all time, and only one or two of them had/have strong arms.

Tom Brady isn't winning because of his strong arm, he's winning because of intangibles.

Same could be said of Montana and Manning.

Mr. Laz 04-12-2017 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 12821535)
They can't be the first thing people talk about.

That gets you Chad Pennington after his shoulder injury. Shit, that gets you Alex Smith.

There are 1,000 Ken Dorsey's out there and for some reason people want to talk about the big-armed passers as though THOSE are the guys that fail all the time. No - those are the guys we expected to succeed that didn't. The noodle-armed 'intangibles' guys just vanished into nothingness and nobody noticed because nobody ever expected them to accomplish anything at this level.

For every Kyle Boller there's a Charlie Ward. just because we remember the 'sexier' prospects better when they fail doesn't mean they weren't better prospects to begin with. In fact, it's the opposite - we remember them because we didn't expect them to suck. But when some weak-armed 'winner' in college goes nowhere in the pros, nobody remembers and nobody cares because we knew that guy was a bad prospect anyway.

What? Smith is another example of physical tools not being enough.

His arm strength and other physical tools are what got him drafted with the 1st overall pick in 2005. His physical tools are all quite good.

Smith's problems aren't physical, they are mental. Mike Singletary and the 49ers organization destroyed him. They ripped out his spine and cut off his nuts.

Smith is just foot-shuffling porter now, trying to do whatever he can to avoid mistakes so that his head coach doesn't get mad at him.

DJ's left nut 04-12-2017 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Laz (Post 12821566)
What? Smith is another example of physical tools not being enough.

His arm strength and other physical tools are what got him drafted with the 1st overall pick in 2005. His physical tools are all quite good.

Smith's problems aren't physical, they are mental. Mike Singletary and the 49ers organization destroyed him. They ripped out his spine and cut off his nuts.

Smith is just foot-shuffling porter now, trying to do whatever he can to avoid mistakes so that his head coach doesn't get mad at him.

His physical tools aren't anywhere near what they were when he got drafted because of his shoulder injuries. He's now at a point where they're exactly adequate and his processing has to be immaculate to succeed.

So we get to the old Greg Maddux stuff where people call everyone that throw 90s with good command Greg Maddux while forgetting that his mental skills were simply preturnatural and anybody that's merely 'good' between the ears with the same physical tools ended up as a mopup man.

If you draft DeShaun Watson with the belief that he's going to be Joe Montana between the ears, you're setting yourself up to fail because expecting that kind of acuity is leaving zero margin for error. Most folks with Joe Montana's physical tools simply ended up backups for a few years and disappeared.

DJ's left nut 04-12-2017 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman (Post 12821557)
The first thing that people talk about is arm talent, but you look at the list of the greatest QBs all time, and only one or two of them had/have strong arms.

Tom Brady isn't winning because of his strong arm, he's winning because of intangibles.

Same could be said of Montana and Manning.

I didn't say arm strength. I said how they throw the football. That could be precision accuracy, it could be touch. It could be a slew of things that aren't simply throwing the ball hard.

Take away Tom Brady's ability to put it where he aims it every time and all you get is Matt Moore. Take that away from Manning and you get Drew Bledsoe. Take it away from Brees and you get Chase Daniel.

I would never argue that being a successful QB is just about arm strength. I wouldn't even say that 'arm talent' is simply having a big arm. It's a whole spectrum of things and in Watson I just don't see much of it.

milkman 04-12-2017 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 12821579)
I didn't say arm strength. I said how they throw the football. That could be precision accuracy, it could be touch. It could be a slew of things that aren't simply throwing the ball hard.

Take away Tom Brady's ability to put it where he aims it every time and all you get is Matt Moore. Take that away from Manning and you get Drew Bledsoe. Take it away from Brees and you get Chase Daniel.

I would never argue that being a successful QB is just about arm strength. I wouldn't even say that 'arm talent' is simply having a big arm. It's a whole spectrum of things and in Watson I just don't see much of it.

I can't agree.

The thing that separates the greats from the rest of the pack is their ability to process the information they see on the field much more quickly, and the the confidence in what they see.

kccrow 04-12-2017 05:59 PM

"90% of the game is half mental." - Yogi Berra

I think that's about the truth in football at the QB position. You have to have the given ability to throw the required routes, but after that it's mental processing. Pre-snap recognition of coverage, blitz, reading through progressions, etc. They also have to have that other part, the ability to forget. They have to forget the bad throw last drive, the interception, the pressure that came the play before, etc. If they can't, they won't succeed.

Dante84 04-12-2017 07:08 PM

Watching Gruden's QB camp.... Trubuisky is dumb as a rock.

rico 04-12-2017 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dante84 (Post 12821759)
Watching Gruden's QB camp.... Trubuisky is dumb as a rock.

That's the same impression I got. I was just telling someone about that at work last night...

Coogs 04-12-2017 07:45 PM

Just watched the Mahomes show with Gruden. I would be happy with him too.
Watson, Mahomes, or Trubisky in that order for me.

Mr. Laz 04-12-2017 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman (Post 12821635)
I can't agree.

The thing that separates the greats from the rest of the pack is their ability to process the information they see on the field much more quickly, and the the confidence in what they see.

Yep

A certain amount of passing velocity and accuracy is needed for any NFL quarterback. Also it makes it harder when a QB can't throw the ball to every part of the field.

It's still the mental aspect that makes the biggest difference.

Mr. Laz 04-12-2017 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dante84 (Post 12821759)
Watching Gruden's QB camp.... Trubuisky is dumb as a rock.

Then how is he going top-10?

Would be just like Cleveland to take Trubisky #1 and end up with Jamarcus Russell.

Quesadilla Joe 04-13-2017 05:07 AM

Albert Breer on Kizer...

Spoiler!

From the same column...

Quote:

DeShone Kizer is widely seen as a fit for the Cardinals. Texas Tech’s Patrick Mahomes is pegged as one for the Steelers, and many rival officials believe he’ll land there. Likewise, Davis Webb has high-end potential and intangibles but is considered raw.
http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2017/04/13/j...y-nfl-minicamp

Quesadilla Joe 04-13-2017 01:34 PM

I don't know what they're talking about when they say the word is KC likes Mahomes, but Mike Lombardi discusses it....

<iframe width="100%" height="450" scrolling="no" frameborder="no" src="https://w.soundcloud.com/player/?url=https%3A//api.soundcloud.com/tracks/317543152&amp;auto_play=false&amp;hide_related=false&amp;show_comments=true&amp;show_user=true&amp;s how_reposts=false&amp;visual=true"></iframe>

The Franchise 04-13-2017 01:41 PM

I'm not listening to 30 minutes of this bullshit. Where's the KC comment at?

Quesadilla Joe 04-13-2017 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pestilence (Post 12822971)
I'm not listening to 30 minutes of this bullshit. Where's the KC comment at?

Right at the beginning. I would've specified if it was somewhere in the middle.

The Franchise 04-13-2017 01:42 PM

Alright then. Thanks.

DJ's left nut 04-13-2017 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman (Post 12821635)
I can't agree.

The thing that separates the greats from the rest of the pack is their ability to process the information they see on the field much more quickly, and the the confidence in what they see.

Eh, that's fine. People can disagree.

I think there's a threshhold level of physical tools that any QB has to hit to reach even playable status - Watson clears that fairly easily. In that 'playable to good' tier, it's largely between the ears that decides where you fall.

There's another 'filter' that pops up between good and championship caliber and that requires a greater level of physical tools/arm talent. I don't think Watson clears that bar. So I think it puts his ceiling at 'pretty good' regardless of how good his intangibles are.

To clear that bar without that threshhold level of physical tools is simply a rare enough event as to not be worth projecting; the exception that proves the rule. The Montana Doctrine, so to speak.

Mr. Laz 04-13-2017 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quesadilla Joe (Post 12822215)
Albert Breer on Kizer...

Spoiler!

From the same column...



http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2017/04/13/j...y-nfl-minicamp

Yep, heard rumors that Kizer has maturity issues that might scare teams off

apparently, there were some personality issues with teammates in college as well

Sounds like people might be worried that Kizer could lose it under NFL pressure.

Might be talking a 3-year sit for him because of it

milkman 04-13-2017 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 12822976)
Eh, that's fine. People can disagree.

I think there's a threshhold level of physical tools that any QB has to hit to reach even playable status - Watson clears that fairly easily. In that 'playable to good' tier, it's largely between the ears that decides where you fall.

There's another 'filter' that pops up between good and championship caliber and that requires a greater level of physical tools/arm talent. I don't think Watson clears that bar. So I think it puts his ceiling at 'pretty good' regardless of how good his intangibles are.

To clear that bar without that threshhold level of physical tools is simply a rare enough event as to not be worth projecting; the exception that proves the rule. The Montana Doctrine, so to speak.

To be clear here, I am not commenting on any specific QB.

I haven't seen any of these guys more than once, and haven't invested any time researching.

I am just talking in broad generalities.

Quesadilla Joe 04-14-2017 08:30 AM

A little more Mahomes and KC smoke from Matt Miller's Friday column...

Quote:

—One more quarterback note: If you're looking for a Mahomes landing spot, two teams I'm told by scouts and general managers that really like him are the Arizona Cardinals and Kansas City Chiefs.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2...ce=twitter.com

kcchiefsus 04-14-2017 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quesadilla Joe (Post 12823966)
A little more Mahomes and KC smoke from Matt Miller's Friday column...

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2...ce=twitter.com

If the Chiefs really want him it won't matter because they'll get outmaneuvered like they always do.

Mr. Laz 04-14-2017 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcchiefsus (Post 12824397)
If the Chiefs really want him it won't matter because they'll get outmaneuvered like they always do.

We may really like him
We may really want him
We won't trade up for him

All these rumors about KC liking Mahomes just means that someone will trade right in front of us and grab him. Dorsey is not a "trade up" type guy, he trades down or stand pat.

MahiMike 04-14-2017 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman (Post 12821635)
I can't agree.

The thing that separates the greats from the rest of the pack is their ability to process the information they see on the field much more quickly, and the the confidence in what they see.

Correct. It's why I personally rank arm strength 3rd after intelligence and eyes/vision.

Quesadilla Joe 04-15-2017 11:30 AM

Florio saying that he's hearing that QB's are going to go higher than suspected... Last week the word was the exact opposite LMAO

Quote:

One source who has proven to be very accurate in the past has shared the current assessment of the manner in which teams regard the top quarterbacks in the draft.

The top five, each of whom could potentially go in round one depending on how anxious teams are to roll the dice for a potential starter (and/or the always-elusive franchise quarterback), are as follows: (1) Mitchell Trubisky; (2) Deshaun Watson; (3) Patrick Mahomes; (4) Davis Webb; and (5) DeShone Kizer.

As the draft approaches, there seems to be a stronger sense that the quarterbacks will go earlier than previously expected. Which makes sense; some teams can’t resist the lure of a potential franchise quarterback, which often results in the guys regarded as the top quarterbacks in a given drafted being drafted sooner than they should be.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...aft-currently/

Quesadilla Joe 04-15-2017 11:56 AM

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Not talking about his play, but his Gruden QB camp tape makes Mahomes one of the most likable guy&#39;s to ever do it</p>&mdash; Joe Banner (@JoeBanner13) <a href="https://twitter.com/JoeBanner13/status/853305504155799552">April 15, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

chiefscafan 04-15-2017 12:24 PM

I get so mad when I hear Watson with game manager tag did you watch the Ohio state or Alabama game last year. He won those games. Jonathan Allen the DE from Bama said we kept hitting him and he only got stronger.


You wouldn't want this guy behind center?

RunKC 04-15-2017 10:12 PM

Still have no idea why Nate Peterman is supposedly Alex Smith. When I see this stuff from him, the Alex comparisons make me laugh.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Cover1Bil...56156486275079

Alex wouldn't ever attempt or even be able to make this throw.

Chief Northman 04-15-2017 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunKC (Post 12826245)
Still have no idea why Nate Peterman is supposedly Alex Smith. When I see this stuff from him, the Alex comparisons make me laugh.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Cover1Bil...56156486275079

Alex wouldn't ever attempt or even be able to make this throw.

I like Peterman, but as a backup. Not as a starter.
Highest floor of this class, but I think the ceiling is limited. He has a few too many WTF moments for me, but he is rather polished.

staylor26 04-15-2017 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunKC (Post 12826245)
Still have no idea why Nate Peterman is supposedly Alex Smith. When I see this stuff from him, the Alex comparisons make me laugh.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Cover1Bil...56156486275079

Alex wouldn't ever attempt or even be able to make this throw.

I think he's a lot more like a Kirk Cousins, who I've heard him be compared to by others.

Sandy Vagina 04-16-2017 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunKC (Post 12826245)
Still have no idea why Nate Peterman is supposedly Alex Smith. When I see this stuff from him, the Alex comparisons make me laugh.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Cover1Bil...56156486275079

Alex wouldn't ever attempt or even be able to make this throw.

Peterman is the young and unbroken (mental wuss) Alex Smith.

Smith was not born this way.. he was shattered over many years of misery in SF, and the pass pro and receivers in KC early on were more of the same awful.

Peterman has a chance to be what Alex could have been.. had Alex been given the advantage of a good roster and coaching from the start.

Chief Northman 04-16-2017 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandy Cheeks (Post 12826381)
Peterman is the young and unbroken (mental wuss) Alex Smith.

Smith was not born this way.. he was shattered over many years of misery in SF, and the pass pro and receivers in KC early on were more of the same awful.

Peterman has a chance to be what Alex could have been.. had Alex been given the advantage of a good roster and coaching from the start.

Oh oh. Prepare for the bombardment coming your way.

KChiefs1 04-16-2017 10:05 AM

QB Impressions
 
Watching the Sports Science Draft Combine Special and Chad Kelly was nails on accuracy.

Scores:
Kelly 91.2
Mahomes 87.4
Watson 87.2
Trubisky 87.1
Kizer 86.2

Highest scores ever:
Roethlisberger 92.3
Winston 90.4

Could be a great lower round value pick.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

KChiefs1 04-16-2017 10:06 AM

Mahomes compared similarly to Donovan McNabb.


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MahiMike 04-16-2017 12:15 PM

Good article on Peterman in today's Jacksonville paper. He's a local kid here.

http://jacksonville.com/jaguars/spor...nding-road-nfl

Reminds me of Kirk Cousins. He's married w/an MBA. Ultimate character kid. I could see us taking him in the 3rd.

Jaguars/NFL Insider: Limited Pro Day shouldn’t change opinion of Fournette


“Extreme adversity,” says his mother, Dana.

Second picture: From last November, giving up a thumb’s up to God after he threw five touchdowns in Pittsburgh’s upset over eventual national champion Clemson.

“Extreme elation,” Dana says.

Adversity — injuries and coaching and playbook changes — marked the early part of Peterman’s college career.

Elation — a transfer, 24 starts and the win over Clemson — highlighted the latter part of his college career.

The weekend of April 27-29 will bring more extreme elation when Peterman will be the first player in Bartram Trail history to be selected in the NFL Draft. Most projections have him going in rounds 3-4.

Peterman threw 47 touchdowns and only 15 interceptions in two years for Pittsburgh and a strong offseason has resulted in a stock rise.

“Nate Peterman has the best chance to come in and play [early] from a mental standpoint and knowing the game and playing in a pro-style offense like Carson Wentz did [for Philadelphia],” ESPN analyst Mel Kiper says. “He gets an edge over the other quarterbacks.”

Peterman, who turns 23 on May 4, checks most of the right boxes for a draft-worthy quarterback: Experience (26 starts), high completion percentage (60.5 last year) and a 2-to-1 touchdown-to-interception ratio (47-15 at Pitt).

“He’s got the qualities you want in a quarterback,” says former Panthers tight end Scott Orndoff. “He’s got that kind of quarterback savvy about him. … I know for a fact he’s got what it takes to play at the next level.”

At the Scouting Combine in March, Peterman said: “Knowing I can learn an offense extremely quickly and master an offense quickly is just going to help me [in the NFL]. I’ve been in some pro-style systems, I’ve been under center, I’ve been in the huddle, I’ve been in the no huddle. I’ve done it all and I’m ready to do it at the next level.”

WINDING ROAD


Peterman’s road is certainly the most winding.

Two schools (Tennessee and Pittsburgh) and degrees (undergrad in communications and an MBA) apiece.

Three head coaches (Derek Dooley, Butch Jones and Pat Narduzzi), coordinators (Jim Chaney, Mike Bajakian and Matt Canada) and injuries (broken finger, fractured hand and concussion) apiece.

And one long wait (not a no-doubt starter until his fourth year of college).

“The whole time, I’ve just been really thankful that he has had all of these opportunities,” says his father, Chuck, a pastor at Creekside Christian.

Nathan’s play at Bartram Trail produced the opportunity to sign with Tennessee. As a senior in 2011, his team went 12-2 and he threw 36 touchdowns. He was a four-star recruit by Rivals and the nation’s No. 10 quarterback prospect.

“His older brothers came through Bartram before him, and Nate impressed me right from the beginning as such a tough competitor,” says Bartram Trail coach Darrell Sutherland, referring to Ryan (now 29) and Aaron (now 26). “Some of my earliest memories of him as a young player was how important it was for him to be on the same field as his brother [Aaron], and we pulled Nate up to the [varsity] and he threw a touchdown while his brother was blocking for him.”

Nathan signed with the Volunteers, intrigued by Chaney’s resume that included coaching Drew Brees at Purdue — Peterman grew up with a Brees poster in his bedroom. But a spring 2012 injury equaled a redshirt year and Dooley/Chaney were fired after that season, replaced by Jones and Bajakian.

Peterman started the aforementioned Tennessee-Florida game and struggled to play while injured before he was taken out of the game. He started only one game in 2014 as the Josh Dobbs Era began. The question was obvious then and now: Was there any doubt about Peterman getting a real chance?

“I wouldn’t say he never had his doubts,” Chuck says. “I’m sure there were times there were questions, but it’s been such a dream and passion for him since a young age. We just encouraged him to follow it until the door was definitely slammed in his face.”

A door opened two years ago. Because Peterman had earned his undergraduate degree, he could transfer without sitting out. Chaney recruited him to Pittsburgh.

“It’s kind of funny — he really wanted us to pray specifically about a team for him and it was ‘ACC’ and it would be pro-style and he wanted blue jerseys,” says Chuck, laughing at the memory. “It worked out that way. For him to land with a coach like [Chaney] again, it was a no brainer.”

Peterman started the final 11 games of 2015, throwing 27 touchdowns and seven interceptions. But then Chaney left for Georgia, replaced by N.C. State’s Matt Canada. Chaney was not made available for an interview by Georgia’s program and an email requesting Canada was not returned by LSU, which hired him in December.

A new coordinator, yes, but also a new role for Peterman — unquestioned starter.

“I loved for him to have that opportunity to lead from the front as the incumbent,” Sutherland says.

The Panthers were unranked and 5-4 when they traveled to No. 2 Clemson as a 22-point underdog for what turned out to be the defining game of Peterman’s career … and definitely the most memorable.

THE CLEMSON GAME

Peterman’s line — 22-of-37 passing for 308 yards, five touchdowns and no interceptions in a 43-42 win suggests it was steady sailing for the Panthers’ offense. But like his career, there were trying times. Peterman’s seven-yard touchdown pass (his fifth) to Orndoff cut the Tigers’ lead to 35-34 with 4:35 left in the third quarter.

But over his next seven attempts, Peterman was 1 of 7 for minus-1 yard.

On the game-winning drive, though, Peterman rose up. He scrambled for nine yards and hit Orndoff for gains of 21 and four yards, moving Pitt to the Clemson 30. Three plays later, the Panthers kicked a 48-yard field goal with six seconds remaining.

“Such a competitor,” Sutherland says. “He fully expects to go out there and have success.”

Says Nathan: “Looking back at it, it certainly meant a lot to me. Nobody believed in us except for us and we were coming off a tough loss at Miami [51-28]. To perform the way we did and come together was awesome.”

Chuck Peterman was watching on television, one of only two games he missed all season. But Dana, her two other sons and Nathan’s wife, Morgan, were in the stands.

“We were in the third row in the end zone and there was so much excitement, we just all jumped over the wall and onto the field,” says Dana, who is a realtor. “One of my sons was pulling me across the field and I was asking, ‘Can we do this?’”

Dana says it was only the second time in Nathan’s football career she had been on the field — the first during pregame Senior Night ceremonies at Bartram Trail.

Pittsburgh would beat Duke 56-14 and Syracuse 76-61 to close the regular season. In the bowl-game loss to Northwestern, Peterman was 13-of-18 passing for 253 yards and one touchdown before the game with a concussion.

Peterman spent the offseason training in Boca Raton and went through his Pro Day last month in Pittsburgh. But on draft weekend, the family will head to the beach — Chuck and Dana, their sons and their spouses and four grandchildren, among others. They will wait for an NFL team to call and start the next step in Nathan’s football journey.

“It may be awhile until we’re all together again and able to enjoy the Florida sunshine,” Dana says. “We’re all excited. Nate’s favorite verse is Romans 12:12, which is about being always joyful and patient. He’s really gotten a chance to live what he believes in how he’s responded to the adversity and let it make him better.”

Quesadilla Joe 04-17-2017 05:46 AM

From Peter King's MMQB...

Quote:

4. I think Cleveland wants Mitchell Trubisky or Pat Mahomes. Big arms. Love football. My gut: If it’s Mahomes the Browns covet, they can stay at 12 and pick him. But one bit of warning …

5. The Cardinals like Mahomes.
They pick 13th. They might love him. Beware, Cleveland. GM Steve Keim’s a bold guy. Emily Kaplan’s “24 Hours” piece with Mahomes illustrates why he’s so well-liked in the NFL community.

6. Teams that want to trade down. San Francisco (two), Chicago (three) and the Jets (six) are the ones I hear are most antsy to move back in a market with few teams wanting to move up.
http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2017/04/17/d...aft-peter-king

Quesadilla Joe 04-17-2017 08:27 AM

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">File this away: One NFL coach who has done homework on all the top QBs told me word is Bill O&#39;Brien &quot;absolutely loves&quot; Patrick Mahomes. <a href="https://t.co/SYvUyLWlAC">https://t.co/SYvUyLWlAC</a></p>&mdash; Tom Pelissero (@TomPelissero) <a href="https://twitter.com/TomPelissero/status/853976304533864448">April 17, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

TambaBerry 04-17-2017 08:34 AM

Looks like Mahomes will probably be the first qb off the board, then Trubisky, then the others probably won't even go in the 1st round

Sandy Vagina 04-17-2017 09:21 AM

Definitely bringing some drama to the first round.
Deserved or not, the unfolding of this draft penii will be riveting!

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view4/122...py-smile-o.gif

kcchiefsus 04-17-2017 12:37 PM

Other teams will get quarterbacks. We'll be left with Ale Smith and our dicks in our hands.

DJ's left nut 04-17-2017 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quesadilla Joe (Post 12825588)
Florio saying that he's hearing that QB's are going to go higher than suspected... Last week the word was the exact opposite LMAO

That's because all the 'this QB class is shit' stuff has been nonsense from the start.

All it's lacking is one surefire stud at the top of it. 1-4 in this class is comparable or better to 2-5 in virtually any class you can name. This class is fine, it just doesn't have a true headliner.

Quesadilla Joe 04-18-2017 01:01 AM

Some pretty interesting QB discussion between DJ, Bucky, and Lance Zierlien at the 16:35 to 27 minute mark.

http://www.nfl.com/podcasts?id=f8dd2...f5bd99ac54d804

MahiMike 04-18-2017 02:44 PM

Just started watching Gruden's camps. After seeing Watson, I want no part of this guy.

He can't talk! And he's a 'communications' major. He can't call plays in the huddle. And he threw 32 picks the last 2 years. In college. That transfers to about 20/yr in the pros.

Pass.

DJ's left nut 04-18-2017 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MahiMike (Post 12829368)
Just started watching Gruden's camps. After seeing Watson, I want no part of this guy.

He can't talk! And he's a 'communications' major. He can't call plays in the huddle. And he threw 32 picks the last 2 years. In college. That transfers to about 20/yr in the pros.

Pass.

Key figure for the 'arm strength isn't important' crowd:

The difference between Watson's velocity and Mahomes velocity on a 20 yard throw (or about a 15 yard out by the time you factor in the lateral range) is 4 feet. When Mahomes throws that ball, by the time it gets to his WR, Watson's pass is still 4 ft behind it.

In temporal terms, it takes Mahomes about .15 seconds less time to get from hand to target than Watson. If that's a WR, a .15 second 40 difference gets him killed but what good is that extra speed if the QB gives it all back?

That 4 ft makes all the difference between a first down and a pick 6. Think of how many windows close just as the DB gets there and how many times that ball gets batted/taken away if the ball is 4 feet further back at that same point in time.

Arm issues are leading to some of these picks for Watson. There's a very good argument to make that he simply doesn't have NFL arm strength.

raybec 4 04-18-2017 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 12829466)
Key figure for the 'arm strength isn't important' crowd:

The difference between Watson's velocity and Mahomes velocity on a 20 yard throw (or about a 15 yard out by the time you factor in the lateral range) is 4 feet. When Mahomes throws that ball, by the time it gets to his WR, Watson's pass is still 4 ft behind it.

In temporal terms, it takes Mahomes about .15 seconds less time to get from hand to target than Watson. If that's a WR, a .15 second 40 difference gets him killed but what good is that extra speed if the QB gives it all back?

That 4 ft makes all the difference between a first down and a pick 6. Think of how many windows close just as the DB gets there and how many times that ball gets batted/taken away if the ball is 4 feet further back at that same point in time.

Arm issues are leading to some of these picks for Watson. There's a very good argument to make that he simply doesn't have NFL arm strength.

All he does is win in....5,4,3,2

Quesadilla Joe 04-19-2017 10:16 AM

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">“If you believe the Bears want a QB (at 3), I got a bridge in Arizona for you” - An NFL executive to me today</p>&mdash; Matt Miller (@nfldraftscout) <a href="https://twitter.com/nfldraftscout/status/854721311121256449">April 19, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Almost no matter what, I&#39;ve been told, the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Bears?src=hash">#Bears</a> want to leave the first two rounds with a Quarterback in this draft.</p>&mdash; Eric Galko (@OptimumScouting) <a href="https://twitter.com/OptimumScouting/status/854728992687050752">April 19, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Quesadilla Joe 04-19-2017 10:43 AM

From DJ's "Ask 5"...


Ask 5: Who'll be first QB selected in 2017 NFL Draft?
Spoiler!
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300...487-sf71542487

Tribal Warfare 04-19-2017 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quesadilla Joe (Post 12830679)
From DJ's "Ask 5"...


Ask 5: Who'll be first QB selected in 2017 NFL Draft?
Spoiler!
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300...487-sf71542487

LOL, NFL FOs are really riling up the media

Quesadilla Joe 04-19-2017 01:00 PM

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Under-the-radar QB who could be the next Trevor Siemian? Cen. Mizzou’s Garrett Fugate. Coming off an ACL, worked out for <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Packers?src=hash">#Packers</a> &amp; <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Chiefs?src=hash">#Chiefs</a></p>&mdash; Ian Rapoport (@RapSheet) <a href="https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/854770975258312704">April 19, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Chief Northman 04-19-2017 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quesadilla Joe (Post 12830841)
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Under-the-radar QB who could be the next Trevor Siemian? Cen. Mizzou’s Garrett Fugate. Coming off an ACL, worked out for <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Packers?src=hash">#Packers</a> &amp; <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Chiefs?src=hash">#Chiefs</a></p>&mdash; Ian Rapoport (@RapSheet) <a href="https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/854770975258312704">April 19, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

"The next" Trevor Siemien.

Media making comparisons to a one-year starter. Fan****ingtastic.

I'm sure people are salivating over the next Siemien.

Beef Supreme 04-19-2017 01:23 PM

The next Trevor Siemien is such an awesome endorsement.

At least you could pronounce his last name "Fuggit."


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