ChiefsPlanet - Football Manziel wins Heisman

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Manziel wins Heisman (https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=267487)

Quote:

Originally Posted by PGM (Post 9191082)

I've had dumbasses tell me the Chiefs should take him first overall....and they were dead serious :eek:

It appears Klein isn't even going to get an invite to the Senior Bowl.

That tells me that scouts don't think much of him as a NFL prospect.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 9191232)

It appears Klein isn't even going to get an invite to the Senior Bowl.

That tells me that scouts don't think much of him as a NFL prospect.

I love CK, but he's probably not an NFL QB. He just doesn't have the release and arm strength of a starting NFL QB. However, he's a guy you want on your roster. I could play an H-Back/special teams role for sure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PGM (Post 9191090)

Hog, your dumbassery has already been well established :D

I'm just trying to make sure everyone noes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gravedigger (Post 9191166)

Comparing him to Tebow and Cam Newton and then saying thats the reason you gave him the Heisman is ridiculous. So it's about 4600 passing yards? I thought the Heisman was for the best player in all of college football. A quarterback on a 10-2 team is not the best player in college football. A quarterback who had one win against a top 10 team and that is only because his defense contributed an end game stand to secure the win. Basically the pundits are saying because he won against Alabama, and because he had more passing yards than Cam Newton and Tim Tebow... because we know Tim Tebow was a passing quarterback, that he deserves the Heisman.

I thought it should've gone to Teo. That is the guy who encompasses a leader and a student athlete in the truest sense of the word. I think it's funny how Colin Klein has a bad game or two and is suddenly out of it. Last night people kept saying "Don't forget about Colin Klein." Everyone it seems forgot about Colin Klein.

So what we've learned about the Heisman is:
If you have a concussion, and you have an off game or two, you're DQ'd.
If you have more passing yards than the guy who won it before you, your chances are really good.
If you have a win over an overrated team, comparative to years past, your in.
If you are a stand up guy, who led a defense, team, and college, back from obscurity... sorry, you're a defensive player, we only give the Heisman to QB's, RB's and WR's.

:clap:

When was the last time a defensive player won a Heisman?

They should just call it what it is: an offensive award

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deberg_1990 (Post 9192214)

When was the last time a defensive player won a Heisman?

They should just call it what it is: an offensive award

It's literally never happened.

A pure defensive player has never won the award.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 9192295)

It's literally never happened.

A pure defensive player has never won the award.

Then it's stupid to get mad over is. That means hundreds of great defensive players have been robbed, not just Teo.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gravedigger (Post 9191166)

Comparing him to Tebow and Cam Newton and then saying thats the reason you gave him the Heisman is ridiculous. So it's about 4600 passing yards? I thought the Heisman was for the best player in all of college football. A quarterback on a 10-2 team is not the best player in college football. A quarterback who had one win against a top 10 team and that is only because his defense contributed an end game stand to secure the win. Basically the pundits are saying because he won against Alabama, and because he had more passing yards than Cam Newton and Tim Tebow... because we know Tim Tebow was a passing quarterback, that he deserves the Heisman.

I thought it should've gone to Teo. That is the guy who encompasses a leader and a student athlete in the truest sense of the word. I think it's funny how Colin Klein has a bad game or two and is suddenly out of it. Last night people kept saying "Don't forget about Colin Klein." Everyone it seems forgot about Colin Klein.

So what we've learned about the Heisman is:
If you have a concussion, and you have an off game or two, you're DQ'd.
If you have more passing yards than the guy who won it before you, your chances are really good.
If you have a win over an overrated team, comparative to years past, your in.
If you are a stand up guy, who led a defense, team, and college, back from obscurity... sorry, you're a defensive player, we only give the Heisman to QB's, RB's and WR's.

The Heisman isn't about best player on the best team. Or at least it shouldn't be. Best player, period.

Last year, Texas A&M was 6-6 with a first-round pick at QB. Everyone expected the Aggies to be in the 6-7 win range again this season, but because of Manziel's excellence, they won 10, knocked off No. 1 on the road, and cemented themselves as major players for the next 3 years, at least, on the national scene.

I was all for Colin Klein until he choked against Baylor, in what is now the biggest game in the history of his program. Yes, a bad game can disqualify someone from the Heisman. Yes, an injury can, too.

Teo was nowhere close to the dominant presence that a guy like Suh - who SHOULD have won the Heisman, IMO - was, and he was not deserving of the award. If he didn't play for Notre Dame, he wouldn't have even been on the list.

Hell, in 2007 William Moore had more tackles, sacks, interceptions, tackles for loss than Teo did this year...

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 9191232)

It appears Klein isn't even going to get an invite to the Senior Bowl.

That tells me that scouts don't think much of him as a NFL prospect.

Not a big shock. His arm isn't nearly NFL-calibre, and he doesn't appear to be athletic enough to play anywhere else.

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho (Post 9192444)

It's really stupid to even try to compare a non pass rushing linebacker to a QB. There is no comparison. A linebacker can't have the impact and effect on wins/losses like a QB can.

Plus, nobody keeps stats of mistakes for linebackers like missed tackles, like we do INTs for QBs.

It's very difficult and even pointless to try and do a 1 to 1 comparison.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kstater (Post 9190879)

...

What a stupid, ****ing cherry-picked stat.

Nevermind that Florida was his first ever game because the L-Tech game got postponed.

Still, in those 4 games he had 1013 yards passing and 308 yards rushing. Good for 330 yards per game. His team also averaged just over 25 points per game in those contests.

Let's take a closer look at this:

Bama: 2nd in scoring defense (10.69), 1st in yardage (246)
A&M was +18 in scoring, and Johnny was +99 by himself in yards (345)

Florida: 3rd (12.92), 5th (283)
A&M was +4 in scoring, and Johnny was -50 in yards (233)

LSU: 11 (16.92), 8 (296)
A&M was +2 in scoring, and Johnny was +6 in yards (302)

MissSt: 28 (22.42), 58 (389.92)
A&M was +15 in scoring, and Johnny was +50 in yards (450)

That's 3 top 10 defenses and a top 50

You could also argue that Ole Miss, Missouri, and Louisiana Tech equals Baylor, Miami, and West Virginia, but whatever. Big XII schedule is designed to have 7-8 winning teams every year.

Let's look at Collin's 8-game competition:

Defensive rankings (yardage, scoring)
OU- 44, 43
Texas-75, 72
OkState- 82, 72
TCU- 18, 35
WVU- 108, 114
Tech- 39, 91
Baylor- 119, 115
Miami- 117, 82

That's 0 top-20 defenses, 2 top-50, and 3 hovering around the bottom of the 120 schools.

Now, you might say, well the Big 12 plays a different style than the SEC and we have great QBs blah blah blah. Go ahead and argue for Doege, Lawrence, the revolving door at OSU, or Ash (lol), but I decided to list the Rush defensive rankings as well.

TCU- 10, 3.28
OSU- 36, 3.73
Texas- 101, 4.40
Baylor- 90, 4.74
WVU- 41, 3.54
OU- 81, 4.79
Miami- 113, 4.97
Tech- 73, 73 4.83

Not much better.

Now you may say, "well the SEC pads stats with a weak OOC schedule." I agree. It's pathetic. But the reality is that the Big XII isn't much better. From those 8 teams, only these teams were opponents that were worth a shit.

Notre Dame (Miami)
Notre Dame (OU)
Arizona (OSU)
Ole Miss (Texas)

From A&M's 4 opponents you had:

Florida State (Florida)
Michigan (Alabama)
Washington (LSU)

K-State- Miami, Missouri St, North Texas
Texas A&M- Louisiana Tech, SMU, Sam Houston, SCstate

In Klein's 8 games, he averaged only 288 yards per game, which was about 40yards short of the Big XII's best defensive team- TCU (330 yards per game), and 5 yards short of what Johnny averaged against three top-10 defenses. Klein also only averaged 3.9 YPC during these games.

Now let's look at Rushing Touchdowns:

Blake Bell errr... I mean Collin Klein had 22

10 were from the 1 yard line
1- 2-4 yards
6- 5-9 yards
2- 10-19 yards
3- 20+ (22, 28, 34)

Johnny Manziel had 19 touchdowns:

2- 1 yard touchdowns
3- 2-4 yards
3- 5-9 yards
4- 10-19 yards
7- 20+ (20, 20, 29, 37, 39, 48, 72)

Johnny, by far, had the more impressive this year. A&M probably would have had 1 or 2 losses in the Big XII, but he may have went for 5000+.

As for Manti... I was never too impressed. Even his biggest INT wasn't an INT. Denard Robinson made his year. Denard Robinson has an awful throwing arm.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deberg_1990 (Post 9192589)

This. It's like saying the best defensive SS in the game prevents as many runs as the best pitcher in the game.

Johnny Football scoring nicely off field as well....