There is a disappointing lack of Dany nudity this season given that she had some nude scenes last season already, so you know she was willing.

I have to disagree about the dragons getting no action until book 5. They are babies, so they do need time to grow up before they can really wreck shit. GRRM does not generally take shortcuts on realities like that. But that being said, there is a little bit of dragon action at the end of book 2 (as I am sure there will be on the show), and there is more dragon action in book 3 which was my favorite book overall and was also my favorite BY FAR with regard to Dany's story line. Dany is not in book 4, so of course no dragons either, but they return in book 5 with a little bit of action again, though not as much as I'd have liked.

However, given where things stand after book 5, dragons will certainly be playing a bigger role in books 6 and 7 since they are pretty much grown up by that point, and events are in motion. Plus the show has clearly decided it can take liberties with the dragon part of the story, so they may try to work in more dragon action than the books had (may be tough due to high cost of special effects).

Yeah, that was my favorite Dany book as well. She finally starts to come into her own as a leader. And her dragons get to seriously wreck some Astaporian fools.

Since books 4 and 5 happen concurrently, I'm sure there will be plenty of Dany and the Dragons during both/all the seasons that involve that timeframe (who knows which seasons they'll be; it may well be the 5th and 6th or even 6th and 7th seasons, and might even involve a 3rd season).

I keep wondering if Theon's first mate, will end up being that bastard Ramsey Bolton. Originally, I was thinking there was no way that he was. Now, I'm not so sure.

I wanted to cheer when Ygritte told Jon, "You know nothing, Jon Snow." Even though I'd already correctly guessed that he was walking into a trap, I still really enjoyed the taunting. Between them, and Jon's "Stones and Bone." LOL!

Tyrion can be a twisted dude and he's definitely smart, but oddly his biggest liability in his "game" was that he had too much heart. That scene between him and Cersi did an amazing job of showing that side of him. It was a fantastic performance. There was a moment there where he was wanting to hug his bitch of a sister before he remembered who she was. The talk about Joffery being a crazy dog due to inbreeding was pretty hilarious.

The scenes with Tyrion and Cersei are always entertaining. Great job in the one last night when he wasn't sure if he should comfort Cersei. And it was right out of the book as well, which was nice given all the other departures from the books.

Dagmer Cleftjaw has taken over the role Reek played in egging on Theon in the books, but I don't think that he will actually turn out to be Ramsay. Ramsay has been mentioned by his Dad, and HBO is casting for him, so I think he will still show up at Winterfell soon.

Since they're totally re-writing Dany's storyline now, is there any chance that the wizard at the House of the Undying is capable of taking the baby dragons and "aging" them into young adults? Seems like an easy fix to get the dragons ready to be players in the story, even if it is a cheap escape.

Ned Stark cake pops

http://notyourmommascookie.com/wp-co...012/04/348.jpg

I gotta say, this bugs me

Tyrion is very loyal to his family particularly Jamie. Despite the way he is treated by his father and sister he still holds them in high regard. For now...

Well, to be fair, that's not how it goes down in the books. The dragons are never stolen.

As for your other complaints about the show, I think the main thing is that this series is put together much differently than just about everything out there. We have been trained to identify the good guys and the bad guys. We look for the hero of the story to root for and the villain who we all know will eventually lose.

GRRM clearly wanted to tell a story that was based more in reality. The good guys aren't perfect, and the bad guys aren't pure evil (with a couple of notable exceptions). Everyone's just playing the "game" and hoping to come out on top.

Could the dragons eventually grow up and go crazy? Sure. But this is a more realistic series - animals take years to grow and develop. It's a slow-moving pace compared to other series for sure, but the intricacies of the relationships and plotlines are what makes it intriguing, not the spectacle and intense action.

Descriptions for the final 3 episodes, should give us an idea how they're ending things this year:I don't know if they can can live up to The Pointy End, Baelor and Fire and Blood from a year ago, but they should be epic.

The fact that the description for Episode 19 is so short makes me giddy. That's going to be incredible.

I thought exactly the same thing when I read it.

Episode #20: “Valar Morghulis” (season finale)
Debut: SUNDAY, JUNE 3
As Theon (Alfie Allen) stirs his men to action, Luwin (Donald Sumpter) offers some final advice. Brienne (Gwendolyn Christie) silences Jaime; Arya (Maisie Williams) receives a gift from Jaqen (Tom Wlaschiha); Dany (Emilia Clarke) goes to a strange place; and Jon (Kit Harington) proves himself to Qhorin (Simon Armstrong). Written by David Benioff & D.B. Weiss; directed by Alan Taylor.

Can we put the worry to bed now?

Do we know by that line that Jon proves himself by offing the halfhand?

No, of course not. But I feel like that's the first really strong indication we have that they aren't changing that event.

I just don't see them changing it. Never have. And I think this supports that.

Ygritte is way hotter than any wildling I ever imagined in the first two books.

Really? She's pretty damn close to what I pictured.

I completely agree with that actually. Though with a little wilder hair. I was waiting impatiently for her to say "You know nothing Jon Snow." Hawt.

I feel like "you know nothing, Jon Snow" is the most anticipated line in the history of adapted TV.

Pretty sure I heard a joyful, collective "SHE SAID IT!!" celebration across the universe last Sunday.

Also, this.

She's one of the most appropriately cast characters on the show so far. Looks almost exactly how I pictured.

I've caught up on the whole season today, and I gotta say, with as much more of a character as they've made Robb on the show than he was in the books, the reaction to you know what is going to be Baelorx10.

Awesome season so far. I think watching the episodes in a big chuck was the right move. Almost wish I'd waited another 3 weeks, but I'll be too busy then.

I actually kind of agree. I was much more invested last season when I had to...uh...procure them through other means. That time, I mostly watched them all at once. This year, I subscribed to HBO, but it's harder to keep all of the story nuances in line when you don't watch them near each other.

I watched all of season 1 on blu-ray and then jumped into season 2, was pretty great.

I guess I'm not actually totally caught up yet, because my cable was out Sunday so I didn't record the latest one (replay tonight...), but still, I'm not good with the whole waiting a week for next episode thing.

I find myself doing this with more and more shows lately. Watching in chunks of several hours at a time instead of weekly.

Caught last week's episode this morning finally, what an awesome, awesome one. They've hit my favorite point in the books, about the middle of book two clear through the end of book 3. If the quality matches last week's episode, the next season-and-a-half (or will it be 2.5?) will be the best thing ever on TV. John and Ygritte, Jamie and Brienne, Arya, Tyrion, Robb and Lady Stoneheart, even the stuff with Dany and the Unsullied (the only point in any of the books where I like her as a character). Littlefinger's maneuvering with Sansa should be good, too.

So much great stuff yet to come. I almost envy the people who haven't read it all.

...

Wildfire?

Preview for next week's ep!!!!

<img src=http://chatroulettegifs.com/kermit_masturbates.gif>

It really hit me watching tonight's episode just how much tragedy they're setting people up for next year.

Yup. So many of the differences between books and show is about character development to make things more impactful later, imo.

I mean... what would happen with the critics and viewers if Robb just went off, disappeared for a while, and came back married to Jeyne Westerling, with the entire courtship happening off screen? It wouldn't fly.

Yeah, making Robb a viewpoint character is going to make all of that hurt so much more.

That wasn't all though. Shea and Tyrion, the whole time I'm watching, I'm thinking "that poor guy". Jamie and Brienne when they get on the boat, and how (I hope) he's as much a sympathetic character on the show after all this as he is in the books; he's to me by far the best character arc of the books just in terms of how much he changes (or my perception of him changes). But bad shit happens to both of them... And then Jon and Ygritte. That one's going to hurt in the end.

They're going to have to do something I think with the TV series to balance out all the sadness that's on the horizon. They'll either have to amplify little moments to make them feel like larger victories, or create some new things. There's going to come a point where it's going to be sort of like having Ned Stark die every week.

Course that's all next year, they have plenty of time to figure it out.

Yeah, there will be plenty of butthurt next season. Hell, I sat the book down for a while after several instances, heh.

Not as action packed, but I still liked it.

Arya and Jaqen's scene was awesome, her shrug made me laugh out loud.

Loved Stannis and Davos talking about the onion knight story. Stannis is growing on me.

I liked Robb's story about Ned and his teachings. I enjoyed the Talisa story about her brother too and thought it played nicely into the slavery issue that will be big next season. And I really enjoyed seeing her lovely tush!

Tyrion was great. Thought it was funny how they showed that Cersei is never as clever in her scehemes as she thinks she is. More of that to come. Any conversation between Tyrion and Varys is excellent to me. And Joffrey vs. Stannis. Ha!

Theon and Yara/Asha were good, I liked that they gave her some sisterly feelings toward him. Thought the Bran reveal was good. Luwin spies Osha and then takes a closer look at the burned boides.

North of the wall is still the weakest part of the story adaptation. But Sam finding the dragonglass made me happy, means we will get to see Sam the Slayer I think! I don't even mind the Halfhand being less well developed as I think it would have been a little jarring for viewers to have Jon kill him if they had developed him too much. And I am happy that they appear to be heading back to having Jon kill him, which had me worried for a time there that they would exclude that part.

But the part that really bothers me is that they didn't explore Bran's dream and Jon's warging. I think that is a big miss for me. Jon needs to ne a warg, plus that is one of the reasons that the wildlings accept him in. I hope they fix that, but don't see how they will have time in two episodes given all that has to happen with the Blackwater battle and the house of undying an Arya escaping, etc.

Overall, I liked that they spent more time on dialogue that explains stories or characters. Next week will pack plenty of action. Sometimes you need to slow down and have some dialog, and this episode was the right time to do it with next week's episode on the horizon. Bring on the Blackwater!

P.S. The chain is out (would have been a hard scene to film), but with GRRM writing this episode, I feel like he will have something in store to make Tyrion look smart and brave as he did in the book.

Much like with the books, the scenes north of the wall are my favorite part of the show. I never had any question or concern about what would happen with the halfhand. And I've always felt that the warg stuff with Jon was much more ancillary than it was with Bran, so it doesn't bother me all that much that we haven't seen much sign of it. And it's always possible that they could introduce it now. It does seem odd that we haven't seen much of Ghost since Ygritte showed up.

You left out one of my favorite parts of the show: Brienne and the Kingslayer. I thought they really nailed that.

I think overall they are still doing a great job, even the parts that are straying from the book.

EXCEPT Robb's little girlfriend. YAWN, almost fell asleep during her pointless speech. Just kill her already.

I don't remember her (well, jeyne westerling) ever actually being killed in the books. I think there's even a theory that the Blackfish smuggled her out during the siege because she was carrying Robb's heir.

Yeah, she is fine still at this point. Well..fine as far as a new widow could be.

Jeyne is still alive in the books, though whether she is carrying Robb's heir remains a mystery.

Yes, Jaime and Brienne were great, their scenes together going forward should be entertaining.

Please don't kill her, just have her get naked at least once per episode!

yeah jeyne isnt killed but this isnt jeyne, they changed the character for some reason. Probably to make her more interesting, and failed.

One thing I didnt know is that shes Charlie Chaplins granddaughter

i have porn for that shit dude. i have to watch GOT with my wife.

I kind of see how they are doing some of the story changes now to time new characters not being introduced partway through a season. Like with Jaquen, Melisandra, and some others, they delay showing them when they could have popped up in the story if it isn't the beginning of the season so they don't have to cast someone on a parital season basis. Point being, I still think the frog kids will show up, they are just being held back. Same with Bolton's bastard not being seen yet, I think he won't show up until next season. They will probably make that a bit of a cliffhanger of them showing up to take over, but then probably won't actually show Ramsay's face until next season.

Lord of Bones was pretty awesome, too.

Yeah, I loved how the bones rattled when he was walking too, just how I imagined him in the book.

agreed, lord of bones kicked ass. i want that mask

On-Demand HBO is the bomb. I caught up on all of Season One in a single weekend. Brilliant to see the entire show in such a condensed time frame...they really produced a terrific piece of entertainment.

Season two has been good, but I think it has dragged a bit. There is so much story out there to cover and is taking longer than it should IMO.

I read the first few books quite a long time ago, then kinda stopped when it took like 4 years for the next book to come out. Because it's been so long, I've forgotten many of the details, and I don't really notice very much when the television series strays.

It's worked out well for me, I think. I came in knowing who the main characters were, so I didn't feel lost with them introducing so many characters. But I also don't feel pissed that they changed the story to fit the condensed time frame.

It's the best thing on TV, and the ONLY reason I am paying for ****ing HBO.

The whole "stolen dragons, bloody coup, 13 is now 2" thing in Qarth is a bit out there to me but it seems to be heading back on track as Dany heads to the House of Undying for a barbecue.

I have really enjoyed the interplay between Tywin and Arya and am sorry to see it (might) end.

Jaqen's character is played to perfection IMHO. A man is a badass.

More Varys please.

Jaime is a stud. I hated him in season 1, before I had read the books.

The kid playing Joffrey is so good I'm afraid he may be a royal prick in real life. Give Stannis a red smile indeed.

Sorry, I didn't picture Yara Greyjoy as being so damn fugly. It throws me off.

A pretty decent season so far. In a way I wish I hadn't read the books so I didn't notice when parts or people were missing.

None of the grayjoys on the show are really very attractive, so I think she fits in. The only thing that seems 'off' to me is that she seems a little bit...plump. I always pictured asha as being stringy and tough as nails for some reason. She's got the tough part, but not the stringly. Either way I think yara works as depicted on the show, just kind of rough and not as refined as the rest of the nobility on the show. Very greyjoy.

The wolves have been mostly an afterthought on the show, minus Ghost going after the Wight, and Nymeria going after Joffrey. I wonder if any of them will play bigger roles going forward.

They did have the one scene this year with bran's wolf walking up the stairs behind hodor and then stopping right on his bed. Probably the most warg moment so far.

One thing I just remembered as another thing that I liked a lot in last nights episode, was the quasi-foreshadow and stage setting of what should come later where Shae ends up dead and Tywin ends up with a crossbow bolt in his groin.

Feel free to abuse the spoiler privilege.

Assuming you mean you haven't read it and want me to explain more. If you are saying you didn't want to know it, stop reading now.


Cliffnotes:
Tyrion is accused of Joffry's murder at his wedding feats to the Tyrell girl.
Tyrion is looking guilty so he demands trial by combat again. A new character, a Martell volunteers, but is killed by the Mountain.
Tyrion is broken out by Jaime and Varys
On the way out Tyrion learns that his first wife was no whore at all from Jaime
Tyrion makes Varys take him the secret way to the Hand's chambers
Tyrion finds Shae in Tywin's bed naked except for a necklace that has the hand's symbol
Tyrion strangles Shae
Tyrion finds Tywin on the shitter and questions him about his first wife at crossbow point.
Tywin calls her a whore one too many times and gets a bolt in his groin.

i want to see if they **** up tyrions face after the battle

I wonder how that happens now, since the Mountain was left behind at Harrenhall (there's no Vargo Hoat...). In the books I believe he returns to King's Landing with Tywin at that point. I wonder if they'll have the Hound kill the Red Viper instead.

Speaking of Vargo Hoat, I wonder how (or even if) they're going to have the Lannisters lose Harrenhall. And if he's not part of the show, how will Jamie lose his hand? That's too important an event in his character development not to happen.

On a different note, having Tywin be more of a sympathetic character now, with his back-and-forth with Arya, I'm not sure how much of an impact that will have to people's reaction to his betrayal with Shae and then Tyrion's killing him. That was one of my cheer moments in the book, but Tywin doesn't seem quite the bad guy in the show as he does in the books. Of course they can fix that once he's in King's Landing.

Ever feel like the world is a tuxedo and you are a brown pair of shoes?

I guess I need a ****ing translator to tell me what the **** you mean then, I thougt you were joking around until I saw the neg rep.

I'm in the spoiler section talking about it on purpose. What is your problem with what I said?

Well now....sorry bout that. Pointed it the wrong direction. Sending some balance your way.

In case anybody missed it:

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I haven't watched in about 2 weeks. I just don't wanna see Ygritte die or I might go jump off a bridge. I almost cried when I read that.

You've got a while on that one. Comparatively, Book 2 is a pretty tame one. Book 3, on the other hand...


On a related note, I'm gonna guess that they pretend Tyrion's dead at the end of the next episode. They need a big surprising cliffhanger, and that seems like it'd do the trick. Couple that with the fact that he's not mentioned in the next episode's summary...

They also mentioned Podrick for the first time in my recollection in the series yesterday. So I am guessing that he will be with Tyrion on the field like in the book, and I agree, that the episode will likely be ending with Tyrion being quite apparently doomed.

True dat. I've read the first four books. Too lazy to get the fifth, though I want so bad to read about Jon and all them.

My favorite quote from last night - of course from my favorite living character not names tyrion - "your little boy prisoners made you a promise and you got mad when they broke it...are you the dumbest **** alive?"

ROFL, love that girl

I really, really hope that's not the case. Because that would mean that The Hound would have had to have stuck around King's Landing after the Battle of the Blackwater. And it also means that we miss his travels with Arya. Not saying the show writers couldn't make it work, I would just be very disappointed.

Edit: Every time I submit a post in this thread, I immediately have to scroll to the top of the page and double-check that this is the *spoilers* thread!

No way they cut that Arya and Hound connection out, right? That's how the Hound becomes an actual character as opposed to a gimmick.

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{checks spoiler rules...}

It would seem to give us a little insight into the book if he is left out of the traveling scenes.

If the Hound is alive in the books and the 'death' described by the brotherhood was merely symbolic/figurative, then he'll probably have a significant role in the last 2 books - so he'll need to be developed as a character.

If, OTOH, he's physically deceased, then his role in the story can probably be replaced somehow. It will take some machinations, to be sure, but it could be done without damaging the stories ability to move forward, IMO.

So we may get a glimpse into how the books go based on how they treat the Sandor in the show.

True enough. I just really liked the insight into the whole Clegane brothers dynamic. But in the grand scheme of things, I can see how that's not very important at all when you have to cut and mold things into shape that fits the TV show's time and budgeting constraints (assuming he's really dead).

I think he's dead although I'd love to see him bring it full circle and kill his brother with fire.

Ooh, that would be nice.

I am almost positive that the Sandor Clegane is still alive. The evidence in AFFC is pretty convincing in that regard, even if it is very subtle in typical GRRM fashion.

I don't know how big a role Sandor will have if he's become a brother/monk, but the set-up is perfect to have zombie Gregor fight for Cersei in her trial by battle, and to have the Hound fight for the church that's accusing Cersei. That fight has to happen!! Come on GRRM, don't let us down!

If you still doubt that Sandor lives, read this excellent essay on the subject (which has all the relevant book excerpts from AFFC), and then tell me if you're still convinced he's really dead:

http://towerofthehand.com/blog/2010/...he_/index.html

Interesting essay, I like how he shows how a person dying can mean they have cast away their old persona rather than being physically dead and how that might relate to the Hound.

I've never gone to towerofthehand because I'd never get anything done ever again.

But I've been of the mind all along that Sandor's death was purely a symbolic one; a passing of 'The Hound' and being reborn as Sandor. I'm about 80% sure that he's still out there kicking around.

I hadn't considered the possibility of him coming back to fight on behalf of the church against Gregor, however. That's pretty damn good...

Better that than this...

"We will have to wait and see. It has been confirmed that Clegane's is not one of the mystery POVs in A Dance With Dragons. Despite whatever pleasure we may have taken from his character, we must accept the fact of the most likely conclusion to this theory: that Sandor's life and death will not be confirmed or denied, that the remaining books will never confirm his continued existence as the gravedigger, and that, if the theory is true, he will spend the rest of the tale on the Quiet Isle, repenting for his life of violence through a vow of silence, as the Elder Brother did. Sandor Clegane may not be dead, but it probably doesn't matter; barring an unforeseen turn of events, he is still finished in A Song of Ice and Fire."

http://towerofthehand.com/blog/2010/...he_/index.html

Unfortunately, that probably is the most likely scenario.

What with GRRM being a **** and all...

I'd forgotten nearly all of that stuff about the Quiet Isle.

On a different note, the stuff about Gregor makes me wonder how they're going to get Qyburn into the story, because so far there is no Goat and friends.

LMAO

Honestly to have protected both Stark girls, that would be utterly dumb for him to actually die and not be rewarded for that.