Career Advice
 

The last month or so, one of my company's competitors has been trying to recruit me away from my current employer. I'm reasonably happy where I am and will hit 5 years of service on March 1st (which means that I will be fully vested).

The new company kept calling, so I decided that I would meet with them and listen to their pitch. After meeting with HR and the office manager, it's pretty clear that they are going to make me an offer. I told the office manager that it was going to cost them more than they were planning on spending in order to get me to switch. He said that he would pressure them to give me what I wanted, but we didn't get to hard numbers yet.

I'm planning on asking for a 20-30% increase over what I currently make. I think they might agree to 20%. Whatever they offer, I am going to take it to my current employer and ask them to match it when my 5 year review comes up next month. If it's 20%+, I doubt they will match it, but they will probably meet me somewhere in between.

My question is this: How much money should I be willing to leave on the table in order to stay where I am? It's basically a lateral move, and there's always the risk/hassle factor associated with switching companies. Assuming that everything is a push in terms of pros and cons between the two compaines, how much is it worth to stay where I'm comfortable?

You're the only person that can answer that question.

I'm going to be facing a similar situation in the near future, I recently got a job that I was originally just planning on keeping until I finished school, but it's a very secure one with a very stable company and I really, really like the people I am working with. The only drawback is I'm not making the kind of money I'd like to, and if I stay there I cannot justify continuing to sink money into school. And if I continue with school, I cannot justify staying at this job once I get my degree, and chances are I'm not going to get another job that I like as much as this one. And there's really no guarantees that I'll even get a better job...so what to do...I hate making important life decisions like these.

Ask for a no fire clause. See if they do it.

When I started the job 5 years ago, I was 27 and single. I had a good job before, and this job nearly doubled my salary. It was great, but I'm not making that much more now than I was 5 years ago, as standard raises have been about 3% a year. It's still really good money, but it's hard to take a risk when I find myself in a comfort zone.

What type of raise would someone have to offer you in order to take a lateral position at another company?

It would have to be at least 25% for them to even get my attention. It's tough to put a dollar value on not dreading to have to go to work in the morning.

In this economy, do you want to give up a secure, reasonably long term job that you're happy with to become the newest employee for a competitor? That's a serious consideration in this economy. And if you get greased by the new place, good chance you'll have burned your bridges with the old one.

A few years ago, I'd say jump and not think twice. But this ain't a few years ago.

I'm reading a book The Best Things in Life... in kind of a mid-life reflection to make the most of my remaining years. It is a philosophy book, but very practically oriented and easy to read. One item related by the author:

Most people find that once their basic needs are taken care of, making more money generally does not improve their happiness.

I would base my decision on:

Which employer would give me better opportunities to grow?
At which employer would I enjoy my working hours better?

The man speaks the truth.

Not sure if your just talking strictly salary, but I see too many people focusing strictly on salary. Be sure to compare benefits as well. I took a pay cut to come to work for my present employer. But I felt that the prospect of job security was better and they offered a much better retirement plan. Which dollar for dollar more than made up for the decrease in salary.

The other thing is if possible negotiate vacation time. If you have been with your present employer for 5 years you are probably getting an added week of vacation. I was able to negotiate for an added week but I still lost a week of vacation. Don't discount the cost of a week or 2 of pay if your vacation time is reduced.

Without knowing your company or boss's attitude towards these types of things, I would say keep this in mind.

You are basically holding your company hostage if you tell them about the other offer and ask them to match or meet you somewhere.

Nothing wrong with that but keep in mind, even if they match or meet you in the middle, there may be resentment going forward that could cause trouble later. Maybe not I don't know your company.

Not saying it should be that way or it's correct just saying I have seen it happen.

One approach would be just to put in notice. They will obviously ask you why and you can tell them better financial opportunity. If they want to make you a counter offer it's on them at that point.

I guess all I am saying and you may already know this, don't go in there saying or implying I am leaving unless you give me XXX. Let them approach you about what they need to do to keep you.

If they don't do that you are probably better off going where they value you more anyway.

Good luck.

I'd prefer to be comfortable personally. That said I think it would be highly appropriate to demand a nice raise from your current employer. Showing loyalty will pay off in many ways and its rare to be loyal these days.

Stay where you're at. I speak from experience.

This.

Not knowing what you are doing now makes it difficult to judge. I've tripled my salary in 5 years by taking risks in my career. Not staying in the comfortable place and believing in myself that if the new job falls apart, I'll get another one.

Bottom line...go with what your heart tells you is best for you.

This post confuses me. You seem to be agreeing with a post and then saying the exact opposite.

I think I can be diplomatic enough about it that it's not going to be seen as me trying to hold them hostage. If I tell them that another company has made me a very compelling offer and that, while I would prefer to stay put, I can't ignore somebody waving some pretty serious dollars at me, I think they will understand where I'm coming from. I work there because they pay me, after all.

Thats pretty much how I feel. Your company should know what you are worth and if there is recruiting and competition for labor in your profession, they should know that paying too little has consequences.

If I ever decided to leave someday (I'm happy where I'm at now), I'd pretty much follow what you describe here.

My only other piece of advice is not to make a promise that you cant keep. Don't tell company B that you'll come if they offer +25% and then go back to company A for a match.

Following a long interview process and offer a long time ago for my first job out of college, I didn't have a better option (and liked the company anyway) so I told them that yes, I was coming. The day after another attractive company that had been sitting on my resume forever finally called me for an interview and I shut them down because I already gave my word to the offer I had accepted.

For years, employers have held all the cards. I happen to have been dealt a pretty strong hand all of a sudden. My value at to current employer has never been higher (At least that's the way I perceive it), and there is another company that needs someone with exactly my skill set. I certainly don't want to overplay my hand, but I don't want to muck it, either.

The way I see it, if I don't take some sort of chance now, I might not ever do it. To further the analogy, should I wait until I have a royal flush before pushing in my chips?

I'm saying you should consider Frazod's advise. The economy is for chit. I don't know your field or supply and demand for employees in your field.

There is a bigger demand than supply of qualified employees in my field of endevour. I believed in myself and took a leap of faith. But it could have went south and set me years back financially.

It's the ying/yang. Both are legitamate points. Only you can decide whats the right move.

Clearer?

yep, you also gotta know your real worth and how solid the new company is.

Every field is different. I'm in an odd little profession where the labor pool is very low (as in merely thousands in the entire country) and the demand has never been higher. If I was in something more generic like sales or I was an MBA, then the risk of "leaping" to a higher ledge is much bigger.

Wow. 25% minimum? That's strong. I totally understand where you're coming from, though. No amount of money is worth dreading coming to work. That's why I added the "all things being equal" caveat. I know that there's no such thing, but it's hard to quantify the uncertainty.

I've also come to realize that job security is a myth, and I don't really believe in loyalty to an employer in most circumstances. If the employer has gone out of its way to help you out when you had a sick family member or something, I would say that you owe them something. If they just pay you for coming to work, you don't owe them any more loyalty than your grocery store owes you for buying a gallon of milk.

In my case, I feel like I agreed to work to the best of my ability, and I have. They agreed to pay me a certain amount, and they have. It's been a good deal for both sides, but I don't feel like I owe them anything, and I don't think they feel like they owe me anything.

Your point is clearer, but my situation's not. It just raises more questions, dammit! I need answers, man.

I've never approached my employer for a raise or let them know of another job offer and expected a counter offer. All the jumps were for clearly better positions.

I think the crux is that you say "Assuming that everything is a push in terms of pros and cons between the two companies", but the fact is that they probably aren't, and those non-monetary factors can affect your happiness, whether you're cognizant of it or not.

The example I always give people about my job is freedom. I work out on the company clock nearly every day. A lot of days I eat lunch at my desk or work late and more than make up for it. But some days I don't. And no one is watching me and auditing my hours. I can go run errands during the day if I need to. If I get my stuff done, no one messes with me. I'd turn down a 25% raise in a heartbeat if they told me I had to be there 8-5 unless I got it cleared with a manager.

This is very true. In this situation, I don't think there's much chance that the new company would be likely to screw me, though. I'm much more worried about me liking them than them liking me. That's why I'm willing to take a "hometown discount" in order to stay with my current employer. The question is 'how much'.

You are describing my current situation perfectly. In fact, that's easily the biggest positive about where I'm at now. I would describe the rest of my current situation as average to slightly below average compare to my perception of the rest of my field. That's a huge positive, though. I plan on finding out if the new employer is similar in this regard before making a decision.

Neither have I. Then again, my raises have been about 3% over the last 4 years, so maybe I need to re-think my strategy.

If the new employer offers me 20%, and my current employer offers me 10%, I'm thinking I'll probably stay. Anything less than that makes it really tough to decide. The more I think about it, the more I wonder if this isn't about stroking my own ego. If my current employer told me that they could only offer me 7% but really hopes that I will stay because they realize that I am valuable to them, that would probably mean more to me than them offering me 10% and telling me to take it or leave it.

I'm not offering this as advice, simply as an anecdote. My wife and I went to undergrad together. She's a year older than me, graduated a year earlier and went to grad school. I graduated and took a job. When she got out of grad school she had an offer with a company in Pittsburgh that she really wanted to take. I went and interviewed with them, and they made me an offer for substantially more than I was making at the time. In the end, I convinced her to move to KC.

I took my offer letter from the other company in and gave it to my boss. I explained to him that I wasn't looking to negotiate and that I had already turned the offer down, but I wanted him to know what my market value was. My next raise was to the exact level of that offer.

Interesting. That's kind of similar to what my strategy with my current employer is going to be (except I'm not going to shut the door completely first). I'm planning on showing them the offer and telling them that I want to stay where I'm at, but I think that they should pay me market value.

Three things can happen, the way I see it.

1. They can give me a raise.
2. They can tell me that they don't think I'm worth that much.
3. They can tell me that I'm worth that much but they are going to choose to under-pay me.

Situation 1 is a total win. Situations 2 and 3 would tell me that I'm probably better off going somewhere else, anyway.

There's nothing wrong with this course of action, as long as you are professional and honest with everyone (the current and offering companies). I'm sure it isn't the first time your boss has ever had this conversation either. The only thing is, once you start that conversation you have to be ready to leave. You cant take it back if your boss reacts poorly and you didn't really want to accept the offer at all.

My boss is actually pretty big on employees doing what is best for themselves as long as there's nothing shady going on. I'm not worried about getting a poor reaction if I don't completely overplay my hand.

As I've gotten older, I see myself getting more disgusted by the imbalance of power between employees and employers. In a normal economy, it's as hard for an employer to find a good employee to fill a position as it is for an individual to find a good job. A company really isn't doing an employee a favor by letting that employee work there any more than the employee is doing the company a favor by showing up to work.

If my employer doesn't think that I'm giving them their money's worth, they will find someone to replace me with someone who will. If I don't think the company is paying me what I'm worth, it's up to me to replace them with a company that will. (Of course, the current job market complicates things.)

And you're probably an obese WOW nerd.

Good luck....

I can't really offer any advice.....but just wish you the best.

A wise man told me 20% to move. That was before the crash.

My advice is talk to your potential employer and talk to them about what your average day was like. Try to determine what the corporate culture is like.

That might make things easier.

I agree with this whole heartedly. I wouldn't make any demands. I would decide if I was willing to leave, and if I was, I would explain that it's simply too much money to pass up and give notice. I would also make it clear that I didnt want to go but again, the money is just too much to pass up. If they offer you more, youre good. If they dont, they should at least understand and respect your decision enough to leave an open door if things dont work out at the new gig. Good luck with whatever road you decide to go down.

i left a stable job in Feb '08 for a new gig making 30% more/ new position to build upon etc.

By Oct 08/low point of the economy, new gig went bankrupt; office closed. Out of work for 6 months. finally took a job (the only offer I received in 6 months) for 42% less than my FEb '08 salary; couldn't keep up; foreclosed upon etc.

life has sucked for 2+ years; slowly improving though.

Granted, that was 2 years ago so maybe the economy and job market is better now etc. But, I'm basically done taking risks in that regard. those 2 years nearly killed me man.

I haven't had a job that didn't suck for over 16 years; so I figure i'll stay with the secure one that sucks.

Good luck dude; sounds like some tough decisions headed your way.

My advise is to look at the entire picture, and not just the hooters in the middle(money).

Do you like where you are at and enjoy the co-workers and relationships? That is a hard combination to replace. Is everything else equal? workload? Will you suddenly be working saturdays and late nights? Is the benefit package the same? at least equal number of vacation days? What is the retirement package and how does it compare? How about Insurance, your benefits vs your out of pocket costs? Will you have to move? How does the cost of living compare?

Do you know the new company? Do you know any of their employees or clients? Are they reputable? Do they have a high turnover? How serious are they? Do you like the people you do know and the type of work they'll have you doing?

In the past year(couple of months) I've had 2 company president/officers roll into my office, 1 insinuating a hostile takeover(buyout) and another offer to buy or hire me.....I had a strong enough hand that I didn't fold either time, because what I'm doing now is working....even if I'd likely have had more money in my personal bank and more time at home.

Just don't be too focused on the number.

Good answer and pretty where I'm at too. I've turned down plenty of higher paying but less secure jobs. Then again, I'm 50 and not 27. At that age, there's plenty of more opportunities.

I agree with these comments which is why I am willing to stay where I am even for less money. That said, there must be some theoretical amount of money that would entice me to jump ship.

If they double my pay? Gone
50% increase? Gone
20% increase? Decision time

So...

I got a call from the recruiter for the new potential employer yesterday. He said that they are interested and will make me an offer. He told me that they need me to fill out a formal application and list what my salary requirements would be. (He knows what that is, but it needs to be official.)

My requirement is significantly higher than what they originally said they were willing to pay. I asked the recruiter if he had told the new company the range that I was looking for. He said that he had. I asked him if he thought that they could get there. He said that he thinks they can. This would be a sizable raise as well as a signing bonus somewhere in the $10K range.

If they agree to my terms or come close enough that it's a legit starting point for a negotiation, I'm going to ask to observe them for a while. I may even try to just give them a window of a couple of days and tell them that I will be stopping in at some point during that period of time. I really want to see what the dynamics are when it's not planned. (I want real life, not a dog and pony show.) If everything seems cool from there, I'm going to take a queue from rageeumr in post 27 and take the offer to my current employer just to show them what my market value is. I won't make demands, but I want to see if they make a play to keep me.

Here's the thing. Most of the people on here seem to be encouraging me to stay where I am. What's more is that most of my friends say the same thing. I understand why people give that advice, but I didn't expect it to be so one-sided in favor of staying where I am while leaving a lot of money on the table.

I'd like to think that everyone else is just a bunch of pussies afraid of sacking up and getting paid and that I know better, but I know that this isn't necessarily the case. I'm going to have to make a decision by the end of March, and I really don't know what I am going to do.

Dude, your life, your call. Best of luck whatever you decide to do.

And of course, if you **** it up, we'll be here to say I TOLD YOU SO. :D

Career advice: Kiss ass, and when management asks for your opinion, give them theirs.

It's actually funny that you say that. I've actually been speaking my mind pretty freely ever since I've had this card in my back pocket. I can't tell if they think they should make me an executive or make me unemployed.

Why can't real life have a Gaz option?

That sounds like a pretty sound plan. I wouldn't get too excited about it just yet though. It sounds like a lot of "ifs".

I think the overwhelming advice to stay is just to make the point that it would be stupid to jump in for not much money. If there is a legitimate better place for you, most here would do it. But many of us have been burned by things that were not as they appeared.

Ultimately, life is full of decisions. You need to do your due diligence and make the best possible decisions. At least I do, to sleep well at night. But the fact is that almost every one of those decisions is made on limited information at best.

There is still a lot of volatility in the national economic environment. There is lots of news that it is turning around, but be cautious, it's still kind of a bitch out there. My advice is make damn sure the grass is indeed greener and get some sort of reasonable assurance that it will stay greener in the long term before you take on the barb wire fence.

Best of luck dude.

Even better, why can't life be like Mass Effect 2? Autosave, Quicksave, and the trusty Restart Mission, for when you realize that your entire plan was screwed from the beginning. :D

I dont know what type of work it is, so it's hard to answer. But if you are happy with your current company and you enjoy working with the people you see everyday and have excellent job security, it would be hard for me to switch to a different company. Sure everything probably sounds great now, but what if you get there and the boss, co-workers, etc turn out to be dicks or some of them. What if job security isn't that great at the new place? I don't think I could switch if I were already happy at my current job.

Money must not be an issue for you. It'd take a chunk of change to move me, but I'd do it if the dollars are there.

I had offers before I took this one. I wanted to wait till my son got out of High School to move.

sir,
I was loyal to the company I worked with in the 90's spurning all offers for staying with the company that helped learn the skills mentioned company

I am making half the wages I used to
today, after being laid off from aforementioned company, they sold out and moved
so take what you can
from where you can
do not accept promises
only real money
trust no one with an office or a tie

HR is not your friend

I imagine the reason why people say to stay is because of the current job market. I have considered leaving several times then I think I really don't want to go from the top to the bottom and be the first to get shit canned instead of the last.

Went thru the same thing a year ago. Took less money than the 25% increase I was offered elsewhere but still netted a 10% pay increase at a place I'm comfortable and I know they respect me.

Its not all about the money. When I first came to my current employer, I left a place I really liked and was well respected because I thought the grass would be greener. When I got here, I hated it and regretted it for the first few years. I had to start completely over to earn respect from a management team that sucked the big one. Management changes occured (because the old one sucked the big one) and I see eye to eye with the new top dog, who seems to like me better than he does most of my peers.

I took less short term, in favor of what I viewed as a better long term situation. In hindsight it was still a good move, based on what I've heard from a couple of colleagues at the other company.

Best advice I've seen, but then I've just glanced at the thread.

Without knowing your industry, I'd ask everyone you can confide in about anything and everything they know about the company. I'd talk to everyone on their management team at length if I could and be as specifc as possible about the profitability of the company. 2010 earnings compared to prior years, forecast for the next few years, biggest customer and understand the ownership. If junior is getting ready to take over for daddy or daddy's gonna croke and the family might sell....
BBB filings, industry data, product line, market share.

In this environment a lot of companies are a few sales away from broke. If their top customer goes down, what happens to their bottom line?

Then if your current employer tries to get you to stay, I'd ask the same questions of them and weigh your options.

Look at it like you are the bank and they are asking you for money. Your time, experience and lost opportunity are incredibly valuable to you so make both of them earn it. The questions you ask might actually impress and improve your opportunity with both of them.

Career Advice:

I want to counter-offer with their offer plus health insurance costs that I've researched. They don't offer health insurance. In my counter, is it wise to point out how I'm coming to that salary? I can think of one pro and one con:

Pro: It shows my offer is not arbitrary.
Con: They might look and say, "We told you we don't offer health insurance. Now you're asking for us to cover your health insurance."

I'd agree to their terms but ask for a stipend or some sort of compensation for health insurance.

If they don't have a group plan, they won't get one just for you. If they cover part of the cost, it gives them another point to negotiate. They may give you a flat amount or a portion of the cost.

Don't be to sticky about it. Some companies can't negotiate.

I know that this company can negotiate, though. My thought is that they could counter with something half-way. However, I really, really think that my counter is very reasonable, and I'm prepared to walk away if not met. I want it the job though, with the +3800. Is it stupid to have +3800 so important? It's not a huge percentage increase, but it's a good increase.

What kind of company is this? Size? Corporate?

The reason I ask is that most companies have pretty well defined salary ranges these days around job titles, and they may not often bend the rules around those ranges. You might be able to negotiate yourself to the top of the salary range for the mid level position, but then you won't leave yourself room for growth in coming years without a title promotion. In some places it's hard to get a promotion to a senior level within a couple of years of coming on board.

Getting hired in at the higher title also helps you in the future if you change jobs or the company goes under or you are laid off. Having a senior title on your last position qualifies you for the same, arguing that you were highly paid for a mid level guy is not as easy of a case... They would say, well, this is the limit of our range for a mid level salesman/analyst/tech/whatever.

Oh, sorry. I was responding to the OP

I try to avoid starting new threads if I can do it. I figured this thread had enough experienced people to bump it.

I wouldn't raise the health insurance issue. Just give them your salary demand and if they can't meet it they can't.

Implied in asking them to cover insurance costs this year is that you are going to expect them to continue covering your approximate costs, but insurance is going to go up, life changes could happen, etc.

Your finances aren't their recruiter's concern, just follow the process.

I agree with you here.

That's fair. If it is important to you, then do it. It is tough to know with me knowing nothing about the job or your career.

The great thing about the job is that I can be a partner by the time I'm 29 years old. The bad part about the job is that I will be biting the bullet for those first few years with a pretty damn low salary. But my counter is still in the lower 25th percentile of comparable graduates, so I'm just very much stuck on having that +3800 raise.

To me that seals the deal. Future income goes a hell of a lot further than $3800 now. But you could still negotiate for it.

Saul, it sounds like you were being invited to the SEC. LMAO

How did it all turn out btw?

Even though this is a bumped thread I'll give my anecdotal advice. I was called about a position in July of '11. Exactly what I was doing but the pay was 34% higher.

We talk more and I agree to come out for an interview and a 3 day visit and observation. Upon driving up to the place, the building sells itself. It's quite beautiful. I notice when I enter the area where I work, that it's small, cluttered, and the equipment is ...older. Which seemed odd to me. If you're going to build a new building, why not put new up to date equipment in it? Also, the employees actually look like they don't want to be there. Two in particular were extremely indifferent to me. (Turns out, I took over what the two of them had been doing together for eight years and moved them into roles more suited to their skills. So I wasn't just imagining things.)

Technologically, the company where I was at the time had a practice of getting and maintaining the newest, best equipment. We had in house service in the event anything broke down and the company policy was "If it's down, fix it. Now".

I failed to ask that question when I was interviewing for three days. Older equipment breaks. Constantly. And with no in house repair, the new place relies on a contract but does not pay OT (after 5 pm weekdays or weekends) rate for repair. That's really bad service and really bad negotiation on a contract.

Three days of interviews and upon leaving I'm told by the Operations Manager " We have interviewed 12 candidates. You're number one the list. BUT, we cannot make the decision until after Labor Day".

So I leave thinking I've got 30+ days to think about what I want to do with my career. Until the following Thursday (4 days after returning) when the Operations Manager of the department calls and offer me the job. I stumble through the phone discussion and accept. I immediately call and discuss it with my boss and director at the time.

My boss offered to find me more money. I told her not to worry about it. I couldn't leave. The day I walked into that job in KC I knew I was there for life. So, I have a change of heart leaving that day and call the other company to say, "I'm sorry, I was a little hasty in accepting. Please understand, that for reasons I cannot really put into words, I can't accept the position".

He expresses his disappointment but agree it's better to know this now rather take the position and regret the move later. All seemed settled. Until the HR and Compensation guy calls me the next day and says: "Normally, I make the job offer calls. And when I do, I prefer to allow the prospective employee to take a day or two to decide. This is a big move, and you're going to move 2k miles away. Why don't you take a few days and think it over? Also, in order to make this more worth your while, we are going to offer you a little more compensation in salary (7500$ more annually plus the 34% higher salary). I'm stunned. I agree that I'll take a few days to think it over.

In the end, I accepted. But I do regret it. I battle disengaged employees every day. While I can be a taskmaster, I prefer not to manage 30+ employees in that manner. I've terminated 4 employees and need to remove about two more giant tumors before this ship will sail smoothly. Compounding the issue, is equipment failure. Getting timely (same day) repair is like pulling teeth. Although we have made enormous strides in that area.

The long story here Saul from my perspective is you're only 32/33 years old. I took this offer with the same thought you did: "If I don't take it now, I may never get the opportunity". In that respect, I'm glad I did it. But just know, that you'll get more offers. Good employees, smart employees always will. And my offer came when I was 50.

I know this because I was contacted by another place this week. Out of the blue. (I guess Linked In is good for something). It pays more than what I'm getting now and is within 30 miles of the beach. I don't know what will happen, but I'm not averse to listening to what they have to say.

Hope it all worked out for you.

I wound up taking it, and it's worked out well.

Hmm, I'm a bit confused here.

Saul was a just an employee of somebody else in this thread, seeking the advice of CP members on his next career move. This was in early 2011. And apparently he took the job, and is happy with it. Good for him. I guess the job market's tough in Kansas these days.

So, when, exactly did you own your own company? With your name on the door? October of the same year, apparently.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showp...1&postcount=67

So tell me, Saul, how'd you go from employee who seeks career advice on a football board to CHECK SIGNING OWNER OF YOUR OWN COMPANY WITH YOUR NAME ON THE DOOR to employee again?

Did you spray paint your name on the door and hope nobody would notice? Perhaps you took a job working for somebody who shares a common last name, so your name does appear on the checks?

Or maybe you're just a lying piece of shit. LMAO

Do whatever it takes to get the most ****ing money.

LMAO

Fraz with the proper use of the search engine. I'll admit, the timeline does not add up.

Impressive stalking, bro.

Don't you just hate people who try to swell up and act like they're signing checks? ROFL

:popcorn:

Nah, just a timely bump that I happened to notice on the front page. Had I actually been stalking him, I'd have bumped this myself when he started talking shit in Luv's thread.

Now that would have been epic. :D

LMAO

A lot of people do own side businesses. A friend of mine works in sales by day, and sells merchandise by mail-order in his spare time for a bit of extra cash. I don't know the details of your prior debate or this person, but it's not out of the question is it?

Shiz just got f'real.

Generally not with secretaries

Don't you get all swolled up in this here thread. Unless you write the checks.

Or their NAME ON THE DOOR.

I think I saw that one time on a 70's sit com

I've been pretty clear about what I did. I've always worked for someone else. I also started up a side business with one employee. I got it to the point where I was going to have to start putting in a bunch of time to grow it, keep doing no work and making a consistent (but not enough to live on) income while literally doing nothing but keeping my licenses current, or sell it.

I was doing the second of the three until my employee decided that he wanted to buy it and try to really grow it, so I agreed to sell it to him. Evidently he made a good move because he has more than doubled his income in seven months. Last I saw, he was on a track to pull in about $140k this year. My profit was barely a quarter of that last year, and there is no way I would have been able to get it to that level myself without putting full time hours into it and/or hiring another employee. He was already putting in full time hours, and he hired an employee, and it's paid off for him in spades.

By the time I sold it, he didn't need me. I wasn't doing anything but cashing checks. I would have been better off not selling, but he would have probably wound up leaving and starting up his own operation eventually, anyway. I wouldn't have been in position to keep it alive at that point, so I agreed to sell.