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-   -   ****The Official Save Our Chiefs Movement Thread**** (https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=264510)

Marcellus 12-17-2012 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirk digler (Post 9218877)
Thanks for the good info Marty and TBG. I am just really skeptical and I really don't trust Clark all that much.

And if his first choice is Cowher than he is just making the same mistake again unfortunately for us.

How so? Cowher and Pioli would not seem to be close to being the same.

soopamanluva 12-17-2012 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guru (Post 9218886)
He can announce that Pioli will be stepping down at the end of the season though. Like he did with Carl. It would create quite a buzz in Chiefs nation for the final home game.

Exactly. If what was posted is true, the dude basically has no power anymore....

htismaqe 12-17-2012 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guru (Post 9218886)
He can announce that Pioli will be stepping down at the end of the season though. Like he did with Carl. It would create quite a buzz in Chiefs nation for the final home game.

Once again, other than placating a bunch of impatient fans, what USEFUL purpose does it serve?

He doesn't want to screw up next year by getting all the players excited about change - it's the same craziness that led to Romeo Crennel being hired as head coach.

There's NO REASON to make changes now. NONE, NADA, ZILCH

ChiefsCountry 12-17-2012 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guru (Post 9218886)
He can announce that Pioli will be stepping down at the end of the season though. Like he did with Carl. It would create quite a buzz in Chiefs nation for the final home game.

Don't want that or the players might feed off the energy, seriousally go read Marty's post - it all makes perfect sense.

htismaqe 12-17-2012 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soopamanluva (Post 9218900)
Exactly. If what was posted is true, the dude basically has no power anymore....

Which means the ONLY thing that hasn't been done is TELL THE FANS he's been fired.

Are we really THAT self-important?

htismaqe 12-17-2012 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry (Post 9218905)
Don't want that or the players might feed off the energy, seriousally go read Marty's post - it all makes perfect sense.

But but but...I just can't wait! Fire him and make me feel better, please!

dirk digler 12-17-2012 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcellus (Post 9218888)
How so? Cowher and Pioli would not seem to be close to being the same.

Going after the "big name"..

I have major concerns about Cowher and his desire to coach and if he is willing to put in the hours and the effort again. We all know the stat about coaches that won a SB going to a different team, it never works out.

Heck Cowher said a few times this season on the CBS show that Cassel was a good QB and should be the starter. No thanks

007 12-17-2012 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 9218901)
Once again, other than placating a bunch of impatient fans, what USEFUL purpose does it serve?

He doesn't want to screw up next year by getting all the players excited about change - it's the same craziness that led to Romeo Crennel being hired as head coach.

There's NO REASON to make changes now. NONE, NADA, ZILCH

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry (Post 9218905)
Don't want that or the players might feed off the energy, seriousally go read Marty's post - it all makes perfect sense.

Didn't make any difference the year Carl was let go. This team has given up. Announcing Pioli is leaving won't make them suddenly care.

Marcellus 12-17-2012 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirk digler (Post 9218911)
Going after the "big name"..

I have major concerns about Cowher and his desire to coach and if he is willing to put in the hours and the effort again. We all know the stat about coaches that won a SB going to a different team, it never works out.

Heck Cowher said a few times this season on the CBS show that Cassel was a good QB and should be the starter. No thanks

Ah, I see. Until Fisher went to the Rams and instantly made them better I was against Cowher.

The Rams have shit for talent and have been playing very well compared to last season.

Cowher instantly makes the Chiefs better. How much better? I dunno.

bevischief 12-17-2012 04:32 PM

There is no one to rally them to care this season.

Red Beans 12-17-2012 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guru (Post 9218917)
Didn't make any difference the year Carl was let go. This team has given up. Announcing Pioli is leaving won't make them suddenly care.

If he's as big of an asshole as has been reported, it just might make them care.

htismaqe 12-17-2012 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guru (Post 9218917)
Didn't make any difference the year Carl was let go. This team has given up. Announcing Pioli is leaving won't make them suddenly care.

And what if it does?

You're being selfish, that's all there is to it.

dirk digler 12-17-2012 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcellus (Post 9218920)
Ah, I see. Until Fisher went to the Rams and instantly made them better I was against Cowher.

The Rams have shit for talent and have been playing very well compared to last season.

Cowher instantly makes the Chiefs better. How much better? I dunno.

The difference between those 2 IMO is that Fisher still has motivation:
1. He was fired
2. He hasn't won a SB yet and I don't think he ever will
3. He didn't sit out for 5 years and lose his wife

IMHO if the goal is to draft a young QB #1 then I would rather have a young coach to grow with that QB not an old coach looking for a pay day and who will be here just 3-4 years.

Groves 12-17-2012 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soopamanluva (Post 9218831)
If pioli is gone, why not just let him go now?

For the same reason we don't immediately cut all the QBs and aging guards playing center on the roster.

ChiefsCountry 12-17-2012 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirk digler (Post 9218948)
IMHO if the goal is to draft a young QB #1 then I would rather have a young coach to grow with that QB not an old coach looking for a pay day and who will be here just 3-4 years.

Cowher build it up and then retire in 4 years would be perfect since our QB will be in his prime. We aren't winning the Super Bowl until Barkley/Geno gets to be 27 or 28 anyways.

007 12-17-2012 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 9218931)
And what if it does?

You're being selfish, that's all there is to it.

whatever man. I just don't see any point sitting on it if it is already done.

htismaqe 12-17-2012 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guru (Post 9218962)
whatever man. I just don't see any point sitting on it if it is already done.

Because the season isn't over.

Give us ONE good reason to do it now that actually helps the team and prepares them for next year.

dirk digler 12-17-2012 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry (Post 9218961)
Cowher build it up and then retire in 4 years would be perfect since our QB will be in his prime. We aren't winning the Super Bowl until Barkley/Geno gets to be 27 or 28 anyways.

IMO the only reason you bring in a guy like Cowher is to win now. Everything I have heard about Cowher is that he doesn't want a rebuilding situation.

So the question becomes is the Chiefs talent really as good as we thought prior to the season and the coaching was the main problem or is it 2-12 good ?

007 12-17-2012 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 9218967)
Because the season isn't over.

Give us ONE good reason to do it now that actually helps the team and prepares them for next year.

Worked out just fine at the end of 2008.

ChiefsCountry 12-17-2012 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirk digler (Post 9218972)
IMO the only reason you bring in a guy like Cowher is to win now. Everything I have heard about Cowher is that he doesn't want a rebuilding situation.

So the question becomes is the Chiefs talent really as good as we thought prior to the season and the coaching was the main problem or is it 2-12 good ?

Not much different between 7-9 team the year before. Better coaching, new QB, and few changes and this team will be back in it pretty quick.

htismaqe 12-17-2012 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guru (Post 9218976)
Worked out just fine at the end of 2008.

So you're essentially flipping a coin and hoping that it works out, just so you can feel better now instead of 2 weeks from now?

Seriously, that's silly.

RunKC 12-17-2012 04:50 PM

If Clark announces that Pioli is canned right now, the players know that RAC is going to follow suit.

The players love RAC and will want to win a game for him since they know he's going to be let go. They'll play extra hard and possibly win just like they did against the Panthers and Packers.

Good move by Clark not to risk this shit. We NEED the #1 pick.

007 12-17-2012 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 9218981)
So you're essentially flipping a coin and hoping that it works out, just so you can feel better now instead of 2 weeks from now?

Seriously, that's silly.

Love how you are making this all about me. I'm done with this subject.

htismaqe 12-17-2012 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guru (Post 9218993)
Love how you are making this all about me. I'm done with this subject.

I'm making it about you because you happen to be the person on the other end of the conversation.

Of course, we've been talking about this for weeks and I'm making a generalization and always have been.

Sorry you feel singled out but you happened to be the person responding.

Titty Meat 12-17-2012 04:54 PM

So Clark is trying to get Cowher? Interesting. I'd imagine you'll have to pay him 7-8 mil a year.

007 12-17-2012 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 9218997)
I'm making it about you because you happen to be the person on the other end of the conversation.

Of course, we've been talking about this for weeks and I'm making a generalization and always have been.

Sorry you feel singled out but you happened to be the person responding.

It's all good. I just don't want to go any further with it. :thumb:

htismaqe 12-17-2012 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guru (Post 9219004)
It's all good. I just don't want to go any further with it. :thumb:

In 2 weeks, it will be moot. :p

ChiefsCountry 12-17-2012 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bo's Pelini (Post 9218999)
So Clark is trying to get Cowher? Interesting. I'd imagine you'll have to pay him 7-8 mil a year.

ST revenue and single game tickets would make it worthwile for Cowher.

htismaqe 12-17-2012 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bo's Pelini (Post 9218999)
So Clark is trying to get Cowher? Interesting. I'd imagine you'll have to pay him 7-8 mil a year.

He's already paying Pioli over $5M per. Not really a stretch I imagine.

ChiefsCountry 12-17-2012 04:59 PM

Also the Chiefs haven't sent out any STH renewls yet, or I haven't gotten mine. Which is weird since I have had my tickets since 2006 this is the lastest they have sent them out.

007 12-17-2012 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 9219006)
In 2 weeks, it will be moot. :p

Finally

Titty Meat 12-17-2012 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry (Post 9219008)
ST revenue and single game tickets would make it worthwile for Cowher.

This town will throw a parade if Cowher is hired. He's a winning version of Marty. I just find it hard to imagine that if he's ready to comeback to the NFL there won't be a huge bidding war for him.

O.city 12-17-2012 05:18 PM

Well, according to Marty, Clark has already started putting out feelers towards Cowher.

He started in KC, he knows what this town is like, and how it would act if a winner was put out there. Plus he could come back, put a winner here and be enshrined in Chiefs lore.

Plus, it's what I want so **** it, it's gonna happen.

htismaqe 12-17-2012 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bo's Pelini (Post 9219055)
This town will throw a parade if Cowher is hired.

A large portion of this town would rather draft a MLB than a QB, too.

:Lin:

htismaqe 12-17-2012 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 9219068)
Well, according to Marty, Clark has already started putting out feelers towards Cowher.

He started in KC, he knows what this town is like, and how it would act if a winner was put out there. Plus he could come back, put a winner here and be enshrined in Chiefs lore.

Plus, it's what I want so **** it, it's gonna happen.

He could come here and go 10-6 every year and not have a playoff win and be enshrined in Chiefs lore. The bar isn't exactly set real high.

O.city 12-17-2012 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 9219074)
He could come here and go 10-6 every year and not have a playoff win and be enshrined in Chiefs lore. The bar isn't exactly set real high.

Yeah, but FFS, where we are now, I'd take 10-6 and give me a chance with a new QB.

htismaqe 12-17-2012 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 9219078)
Yeah, but FFS, where we are now, I'd take 10-6 and give me a chance with a new QB.

Nah. Even though we've dropped this far, the Super Bowl is still a goal.

We're one of the only teams in the league where our team's "heyday" doesn't even include the postseason...

O.city 12-17-2012 05:23 PM

I know, but you gotta start somewhere.

dirk digler 12-17-2012 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 9219068)
Well, according to Marty, Clark has already started putting out feelers towards Cowher.

He started in KC, he knows what this town is like, and how it would act if a winner was put out there. Plus he could come back, put a winner here and be enshrined in Chiefs lore.

Plus, it's what I want so **** it, it's gonna happen.

Well if Marty story is true he has already talked to him and so he probably has a good idea if he is interested or not.

I am honestly not all that excited about Cowher but there could be worse hires

Titty Meat 12-17-2012 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 9219070)
A large portion of this town would rather draft a MLB than a QB, too.

:Lin:

Yeah but Cowher has a proven record its not like he's Herm, Gunther, or Haley.

O.city 12-17-2012 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirk digler (Post 9219090)
Well if Marty story is true he has already talked to him and so he probably has a good idea if he is interested or not.

I am honestly not all that excited about Cowher but there could be worse hires

Every person you hire is gonna have some questions. Just gotta take a chance.

And if he's already talked to Bill, and still considers that he's the first option when the job comes open, is a pretty good indicator to how the meeting went.

RunKC 12-17-2012 05:36 PM

50 years of NFL history says that Bill Cowher will not win a SB in KC.

No HC has ever won a SB on 2 different teams.

007 12-17-2012 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunKC (Post 9219115)
50 years of NFL history says that Bill Cowher will not win a SB in KC.

No HC has ever won a SB on 2 different teams.

here we go with that again. LMAO

Therefore it must be impossible.

htismaqe 12-17-2012 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunKC (Post 9219115)
50 years of NFL history says that Bill Cowher will not win a SB in KC.

No HC has ever won a SB on 2 different teams.

But KC is going to buck that trend.

Haven't won a playoff game in 2 decades but we are gonna be the place where Bill Cowher does something that no other coach has ever done.

htismaqe 12-17-2012 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guru (Post 9219126)
here we go with that again. LMAO

Therefore it must be impossible.

Winning the lottery isn't impossible. Is it PROBABLE?

007 12-17-2012 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 9219130)
But KC is going to buck that trend.

Haven't won a playoff game in 2 decades but we are gonna be the place where Bill Cowher does something that no other coach has ever done.

LMAO

Why not KC. heh

O.city 12-17-2012 05:44 PM

While I'm sure Clark wants to first off field a SB winning coach, I'm sure bringing in a coach that will automatically sell out ST's is up there fairly close.


If you hire Gruden or Cowher and draft Geno first overall, ALOT of ST's will be sold.

O.city 12-17-2012 05:45 PM

Curious, how many coaches have won a SB with a team and gone on to coach somewhere else?

Titty Meat 12-17-2012 05:45 PM

Yeah this team hasn't won a playoff game in 20 years because they haven't drafted a QB. That changes so tell me why Bill Cowher couldn't win another super bowl? Its not like he won it with the greatest show on turf or anything.

htismaqe 12-17-2012 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 9219142)
If you hire Gruden or Cowher and draft Geno first overall, ALOT of ST's will be sold.

Very very true.

htismaqe 12-17-2012 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 9219145)
Curious, how many coaches have won a SB with a team and gone on to coach somewhere else?

Parcels, vermeil, Seifert, Holmgren, Shanahan, those are the ones I can think of immediately.

O.city 12-17-2012 05:51 PM

Not sure Shanahan can't break that trend, now that he has a QB that was pretty much born and raised for the system he runs.

htismaqe 12-17-2012 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bo's Pelini (Post 9219147)
Yeah this team hasn't won a playoff game in 20 years because they haven't drafted a QB. That changes so tell me why Bill Cowher couldn't win another super bowl? Its not like he won it with the greatest show on turf or anything.

It's not that he couldn't. It's that it's very very unlikely.

There's a double standard here that people aren't realizing.

If we are willing to throw out history and hire Cowher, why do we need a 1st round QB? Might as well roll with Stanzi and defy history multiple times.

O.city 12-17-2012 05:52 PM

How many of those coaches have had a franchise QB at the second stop?


I know Parcells never did, cause he's a ****ing bafoon who thought Jake Long was a first overall pick when they didn't have a QB.

Vermeil had the offense here, but the defense couldn't stop a peewee team.

O.city 12-17-2012 05:53 PM

History was made to be broken.


AMIRIGHT

htismaqe 12-17-2012 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 9219157)
History was made to be broken.


AMIRIGHT

I am on board.

Now lets take Te'o first and trade a 2nd for Cousins!

O.city 12-17-2012 05:55 PM

I'm not sure why exactly it hasn't happened, it's one of those things that don't make sense. I mean obviously the guy was smart enough or good enough to win one once, so he's a proven winner.


I don't understand it.

The Franchise 12-17-2012 05:59 PM

I'd love for the Chiefs to go after an up and coming coordinator.....but I'll fully understand if Clark goes with someone who has a proven track record.

htismaqe 12-17-2012 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 9219162)
I'm not sure why exactly it hasn't happened, it's one of those things that don't make sense. I mean obviously the guy was smart enough or good enough to win one once, so he's a proven winner.


I don't understand it.

I think a lot of them become convinced that they were far more responsible for winning than they actually were. They become more decisive which leads to amplifying mistakes and the like.

It's why dick vermeil thought he could win without a defense and parcels thought he could win with Tony Romo.

htismaqe 12-17-2012 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pestilence (Post 9219165)
I'd love for the Chiefs to go after an up and coming coordinator.....but I'll fully understand if Clark goes with someone who has a proven track record.

Same here.

The ONLY thing I have against the idea of hiring Cowher is that I fear a lot of people, including Clark, want to rebuild Cowher's time in KANSAS CITY more than rebuilding his time in Pittsburgh.

O.city 12-17-2012 06:01 PM

Well I could make a case that Cowher wouldn't think that, whether he comes here or not, the way things worked out for him in Pitt.

He didn't win one for so long, then finally did what he should have and drafted Ben, then won one.

O.city 12-17-2012 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 9219171)
Same here.

The ONLY thing I have against the idea of hiring Cowher is that I fear a lot of people, including Clark, want to rebuild Cowher's time in KANSAS CITY more than rebuilding his time in Pittsburgh.

What's the difference? Besides Big Ben of course.

O.city 12-17-2012 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 9219171)
Same here.

The ONLY thing I have against the idea of hiring Cowher is that I fear a lot of people, including Clark, want to rebuild Cowher's time in KANSAS CITY more than rebuilding his time in Pittsburgh.

And also, what does it matter what EVERYONE else wants to rebuild, if Cowher is the one doing he building?

ChiefMojo 12-17-2012 06:11 PM

Heck I would be happy to have Cowher right now! At least you know you will have a physical football team all-around.

NJChiefsFan 12-17-2012 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 9219166)
I think a lot of them become convinced that they were far more responsible for winning than they actually were. They become more decisive which leads to amplifying mistakes and the like.

It's why dick vermeil thought he could win without a defense and parcels thought he could win with Tony Romo.

Which is why winning SB's with different teams is more about circumstances and the mindset of the actual coach. There isn't something in the universe physically stopping it from happening. Unlike QB's, where actual rules and players are stopping average QB's from winning SB's. So for those reasons, to me, its not a double standard to want a SB coach but also a QBOTF.

For the record, I am not really screaming for Cowher. I wouldn't freak if we get him. To me, I just want the best possible hire. Demanding certain things is just forcing us into making a decision based off things that aren't "guy with best ability". I don't care where he came from or what he was doing prior to this, just hire the right guy.

Manila-Chief 12-17-2012 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunKC (Post 9219115)
50 years of NFL history says that Bill Cowher will not win a SB in KC.

No HC has ever won a SB on 2 different teams.

I don't want Cower either ... but, this may be the perfect time for it to happen, I mean Cower would be the first to do it. But, I don't think he is that good of a coach.

But, if we are going that route, I'd rather have Gruden. He would be much better developing a young QB ... or he will be better if we go after Alex Smith or Kirk Cousins.

I like the idea of going with a fresh college coach ... Chip Kelly/Brian Kelly/etc. but the tract record of first time college coaches is not very high at all.

alanm 12-17-2012 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunKC (Post 9219115)
50 years of NFL history says that Bill Cowher will not win a SB in KC.

No HC has ever won a SB on 2 different teams.

It doesn't mean it can't happen.

DeezNutz 12-17-2012 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 9219176)
What's the difference? Besides Big Ben of course.

If it weren't for the ocean, this beach would suck.

alanm 12-17-2012 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 9219160)
I am on board.

Now lets take Te'o first and trade a 2nd for Cousins!

Not even in jest. :cuss:

O.city 12-17-2012 08:06 PM

I mean other than a franchise QB coming in late, his time in Pitt is pretty similar to his time in KC.


Good,but not good enough. Got to the SB though.

ChiefsCountry 12-17-2012 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manila-Chief (Post 9219538)
But, if we are going that route, I'd rather have Gruden. He would be much better developing a young QB ... or he will be better if we go after Alex Smith or Kirk Cousins.

What young QB has Gruden developed?

DeezNutz 12-17-2012 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 9219574)
I mean other than a franchise QB coming in late, his time in Pitt is pretty similar to his time in KC.


Good,but not good enough. Got to the SB though.

Yeah, I mean, he won playoff games. Went to a SB with a ****ing stiff at QB, and then won a SB.

Reminds me a lot of the 90s Chiefs.

WTF, broseph? You tired?

O.city 12-17-2012 08:09 PM

He won the SB, with Big Ben, so I'm throwing that one out.


I agree his time in Pitt was better. I'm just tired of the shit we have now, I dunno, I'm reaching for stuff.

alanm 12-17-2012 08:17 PM

The only reason I'd be on board with bringing Cowher back is that he'd bring with him the physical mindset that this team has been missing.

That is when you got done playing the Chiefs you'd feel it all week going into the next game.

Bugeater 12-17-2012 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 9219152)
Parcels, vermeil, Seifert, Holmgren, Shanahan, those are the ones I can think of immediately.

How could you forget about Ditka? Or Jimmy Johnson?

mdchiefsfan 12-17-2012 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Bad Guy (Post 9218768)
That's if Cowher wants back in. He may not.

But he'd have full control here.

DC? No idea but it'd be a 3-4 guy.

Too right. That's what you and I have tried to explain in the banner thread.

ChiefsCountry 12-17-2012 08:31 PM

Cowher played young quarterbacks before he got Big Ben. O'Donnell was in his third season when Cowher got to Pittsburgh, started Kordell Stewart who they drafted in the second round. So he does have a history with playing young quarterbacks even before Big Ben.

O.city 12-17-2012 08:32 PM

I'd think this is a pretty good situation to come into. Some talent on the roster, the 1st overall pick.etc.

mdchiefsfan 12-17-2012 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 9219667)
I'd think this is a pretty good situation to come into. Some talent on the roster, the 1st overall pick.etc.

Not to mention we have a better core group of players than we had in 09 to offer.

Only reason I want someone in here asap is I want someone to be discussing things with Albert and Bowe so we don't lose some of the important parts of that core.

Bugeater 12-17-2012 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mdchiefsfan (Post 9219698)
Not to mention we have a better core group of players than we had in 09 to offer.

Wha? It's the same group four years older and minus Brandon Carr.


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