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Frosty 11-14-2012 03:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rain Man (Post 9118800)
I'm envisioning more of a Palestine/Israel situation.

One thing that the ancient civilizations were good at was wiping out the indigenous people when they took over a place.

Actually, it was more likely that the conquerors relocated the natives and moved their own people into the newly taken area. The native people were integrated into other areas of the empire, sometimes as slaves, sometimes as citizens.

Wholesale slaughter is a waste of resources and enslaving an entire population takes too much manpower to oversee. That's why the Romans did it the way that they did.

listopencil 11-14-2012 03:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rain Man (Post 9118800)
I'm envisioning more of a Palestine/Israel situation.

One thing that the ancient civilizations were good at was wiping out the indigenous people when they took over a place. It made continued resistance a non-issue. It apparently happened more accidentally in the New World, but it still happened, and the Europeans ended up with an easier conquest as a result.

The Romans appear to be a big exception to that rule, though, which says that you can take over a place and not have to kill everyone who was there before. But I think the Romans brought a lot of benefits with them and gave full citizenship to the conquered people, so maybe that quelled resistance as much as killing would've.

It makes one wonder if we offered American citizenship to Iraq and let them be the 52nd state (after Puerto Rico, apparently), would that place settle down? I'm only half joking on this.
You are assuming that a European victory is assured. That's not necessarily true. They would hold a technological advantage at first. But it's not like the natives had no ranged weps. Then would come problems with that long supply line and keeping weapons out of the native's hands.

listopencil 11-14-2012 03:52 PM
Another fun idea for a Red Dawn remake. Alternate history prequel. The native population isn't wiped out. North and South America have to fight off Northern and Southern Europe.

listopencil 11-14-2012 03:54 PM
Fast forward a few hundred years at the end of the movie with the United Tribes of the People worrying about China.

Rain Man 11-14-2012 04:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by listopencil (Post 9118828)
You are assuming that a European victory is assured. That's not necessarily true. They would hold a technological advantage at first. But it's not like the natives had no ranged weps. Then would come problems with that long supply line and keeping weapons out of the native's hands.
It seems to me, though, that the Native Americans were too decentralized. Defeating 90 million Native Americans would be very tough, but I don't think that's the war. I think the war is defeating one tribe and then moving on to the next one. It seems like the eastern tribes would work together, but I don't think the western tribes did much of that at all, and they certainly wouldn't send troops east.

It seems like the Native Americans' best chances would be that the eastern tribes would ally and stop the Europeans at the beaches. If they got past the eastern tribes, I think they'd roll west to the sea like Sherman.

listopencil 11-14-2012 04:14 PM
Make it a series.

Episode one: The birth of the United Tribes of the People in the North and the Empire of the Three Kingdoms to the South. Freedom seeking Europeans flock to the continents to set up industrial enterprises taking advantage of the natural resources available. They become rich business tycoons and help to shape native society.

Episode two: Civil war rocks the Tribes and the Kingdoms develop into a republic. Both countries come out of it potentially stronger than they were before, and eventually take their place as a geopolitical force.

Episode three: World War One breaks and the natives sell arms to both sides, some citizens go to Europe to fight. Horrible sanctions levied by the winning side lead to economic collapse by the losers, prompting another war. The natives actively involve themselves this time and truly establish themselves as a world power.

loochy 11-14-2012 04:15 PM
OMG this is a great idea for a video game

vailpass 11-14-2012 04:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by loochy (Post 9118872)
OMG this is a great idea for a video game
LMAO Holy shit. They complained about a supermodel hotty wearing a headress looking F-I-N-E fine.

What would they say about a video game featuring Chief Scalpum and hit merry band of tomahawking men?

loochy 11-14-2012 04:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vailpass (Post 9118890)
LMAO Holy shit. They complained about a supermodel hotty wearing a headress looking F-I-N-E fine.

What would they say about a video game featuring Chief Scalpum and hit merry band of tomahawking men?
DUDE you could choose the one of the indian tribes, the english, or the french.

You could pick your loadout and transportation based on your culture.

You could make strategic alliances.

You could use terrain in your homelands to your advantage.

This would be all kinds of awesome as a first person shooter / strategy / RPG mix.

vailpass 11-14-2012 04:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by loochy (Post 9118898)
DUDE you could choose the one of the indian tribes, the english, or the french.

You could pick your loadout and transportation based on your culture.

You could make strategic alliances.

You could use terrain in your homelands to your advantage.

This would be all kinds of awesome as a first person shooter / strategy / RPG mix.
Sounds very interesting and I'm not a regular video game player. I'd love to see it; complete with historically accurate weaponry, tactics, etc. for all groups. Are there smallpox blankets in the arsenal?

listopencil 11-14-2012 04:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by loochy (Post 9118898)
DUDE you could choose the one of the indian tribes, the english, or the french.

You could pick your loadout and transportation based on your culture.

You could make strategic alliances.

You could use terrain in your homelands to your advantage.

This would be all kinds of awesome as a first person shooter / strategy / RPG mix.

It would be a blast. Also you would need to form a relationship with the Three Kingdoms (Aztec, Inca, Mayan by the way) to secure the southern border. A mutual non aggression pact while they deal with Spain and Portugal. It would like Nobunaga's Ambition but much better.

vailpass 11-14-2012 04:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by listopencil (Post 9118915)
It would be a blast. Also you would need to form a relationship with the Three Kingdoms (Aztec, Inca, Mayan by the way) to secure the southern border. A mutual non aggression pact while they deal with Spain and Portugal. It would like Nobunaga's Ambition but much better.
Approx. when did those folks die out/go away?

loochy 11-14-2012 04:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vailpass (Post 9118910)
Are there smallpox blankets in the arsenal?
Yes, but they only work if the indians decide to accept them. Factors that may play into that include the status of relations with the european faction and current weather and supply conditions.

listopencil 11-14-2012 04:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vailpass (Post 9118918)
Approx. when did those folks die out/go away?
The Mayans around 1400 I think, but for purposes of the alternate history they solved their infrastructure problems and were still thriving.

listopencil 11-14-2012 04:36 PM
From one of the links in the Cracked article:


Smallpox is believed to have arrived in the Americas in 1520 on a Spanish ship sailing from Cuba, carried by an infected African slave. As soon as the party landed in Mexico, the infection began its deadly voyage through the continent. Even before the arrival of Pizarro, smallpox had already devastated the Inca Empire, killing the Emperor Huayna Capac and unleashing a bitter civil war that distracted and weakened his successor, Atahuallpa.


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