Manziel wins Heisman
 

Surely this is a Q right? I was surprised I didn't see a thread. Te'o second, Klein 3rd. I'm sure it's a Q. Oh well, it's football news... and I don't even follow college football.


http://espn.go.com/college-football/...heisman-trophy

Yep... Pretty cool... He's better than any of our QBs!

Nobody cares. The media basically tells you who is gonna win before it is announced.

huge mistake

In that case you're welcome lol.

I've never even seen his name mentioned here. Is he an underclassman?

Freshman QB for Texas A&M.

First freshman to win

Wow. Go freshman...?

pretty cool, IMO it was the win over Bama that impressed the voters.

3 loss QB wins Heisman. Makes perfect sense.

So we need to suck for Manziel in 2 or 3 years I guess?

2 loss. And losses to LSU and Florida are more respectable than getting blown out by Baylor.

I'd just like it to be known that when the times comes... down the road... I was the first one to post the words "suck for Manziel."

No you weren't

Dude had 4600 yards this year. Tebow and Cam both trailed this guy in their best season. By a lot.

Seemed like the best of a bunch of bad choices. I'm just glad the notre dame hype machine didn't win out. Te'o shouldn't have even been there to start with.

Well that figures.

The Heisman became a joke when Andre Ware won the award.

Perfect timing if Geno busts. I'm on board.

He's a redshirt freshman so technically he can enter the NFL draft after next season.

I remember when people were pissed about Bo Jackson winning over Chuck Long.

That may be but it seems like RG3 was a good choice.

wow. Johnny football.

Two losses and a win at Alabama are greater than one loss and eleven wins.

Perfect, simple, failed logic.

As opposed to the SEC hype machine?

Wins and losses matter but in the end.


He was just better. In basically every category.

The SEC has won like 6 championships in a row. I don't know how if can call it hype.

Simple question: do you believe Klein is a better player than Manziel?

Manziel had the best statistical season of any Qb in the history of the SEC. Which includes 2 of the more recent Heisman winners.

Wait, is that what Raiderhader is saying?

Because if so, then holy shitpiss

There is recognizing what has been accomplished and then there is dangling from the balls. The media, regardless of subject, continually chooses the latter.

A very worthy winner.

clear cut winner... well done sir

Tell me again how many ranked opponents he faced...

No, that is not what I am saying. Honestly I could not compare the two until Manziel has a second year under his belt. If looking just at the player (as it should be) I would prefer to compare two seasons as starter to two seasons as starter.

Obviously you caught the drift of what I was saying though. This beauty contest takes a lot more into consideration than just the players (with the occaisonal abberation like last year).

Why are you talking about multiple seasons in a conversation about the heisman?

Anyway, my point was mainly that the press had talked up what I believe is an undeserving player (Te'o) at an undeserving position (ILB) and that I was glad he didn't win. I would have been gladder had he not been there at all, but I'll take what I can get. Notre Dame was undefeated, so they were going to have a name in the discussion. Maybe they'd have won if you could nominate their front 7 as a group, but in any case, I think it was a joke that Te'o even got votes.

As far as Manziel goes, it's kind of hard to talk down the statistical significance of his performance this year. I think it was in general a year where we didn't really have a single stand-out player, a clear "that's the heisman winner" player, but I do think of the players on the list, he was the most deserving.

Bullshit. 7 freakin' interceptions and the anchor of one of the best defenses in the country.

Te'o should've won it and it shouldn't have been close. He showed up and dominated every game, every half.

Unlike Manziel who sucked in the 2nd half of the 2 home games that A&M lost this year (after taking leads into the 2nd half both games). And Manziel didn't actually play well in the 2nd half against Alabama.

AJ McCarron won the Heisman for Manziel. If he doesn't throw that pick in the end zone, Bama wins and nobody gives Manziel a 2nd thought.

This garbage about ND hype is just ridiculous. They beat as many ranked teams as anyone in the country, they beat ND and USC in their own barns and the unquestioned best player on their team (and best player in the country) was Manti Te'o.

**** the Heisman voters. It's become nothing more than a "QB of the Year" award.

5

:LOL:

Reactions like that are the best part of it.

Yeah, it's a crying shame defense is looked down on these days.

And your inability to rebut it is telling.

Wait, there are people actually arguing this?

:facepalm:

It's why I like college football more than professional football these days.

In college football, you can still win through defense and physical play. In the NFL, you pretty much have one way to win - throw the shit out of it. That's not the case in college. You can win with goofy Auburn offenses led by Cam Newton running read options, you can have a defense-first team with a dominant running game like 'Bama or you can spread it out and fling it around.

Defense still matters in the college game yet the voters just completely ignore it. There's still never been a purely defensive player win the Heisman, yet all you heard in the runup was about the fact that there's never been a Freshman win one.

Yeah, ND hype machine, indeed. The biggest play in college football this year was Te'o interception in Norman that broke the back of the Sooners, yet everyone wants to fawn over Manziel's TD against Alabama (after he sucked for the entire half)...a play that ultimately meant absolutely nothing.

Why take the time to rebut when I already wrote a paragraph about it in the post immediately above yours.

I don't think Te'o is anything particularly special. I do think that front 7 was. I don't think he deserved the award, and I don't think it's any miscarriage of justice that he didn't get it. In fact, I think the only reason he was there is that every Notre Dame broadcast for the latter half of the season was primarily focused on talking him up. You'd think there weren't any other players on that defense. Or on that team, for that matter. It's the Manti Te'o show! And you'd think he cured cancer and brought us world peace between commercial breaks. He's a good player that was/is part of a great defense. He was not a Heisman caliber player. The lack of a clear front-runner for the award this year is likely the only reason he was even part of the discussion.

But I will also note that I vehemently hate Notre Dame, and I make no effort at all to hide that bias.

I was kinda pullin for the Hawaii boy..,

I was actually thinkin about this the other day DJ. There is so many variety ways to win in the NCAA.

Bama pretty much wins by playing Marty ball, same with LSU. Oregon track meets you.

NFL mindset applied to a college game.

"If you're not getting sacks or a QB, you don't count..."

That's not how the college game is played. Te'o's ability to be a force against the run while being the best coverage linebacker in the country makes him the most complete defensive player in the nation and absolutely a Heisman worthy player.

Yeah, Teo absolutely does all those things.


And I still hope like hell we don't do something stupid and take him first overall this year.

That 'Bama/Georgia game was among the most entertaining football games of any variety I've seen in a decade. 'Bama tried to go throw for throw w/ Georgia and it clearly wasn't going to work so they switched gears in the 2nd half and just went to a ground/pound setup.

Meanwhile Murray and co., just kept attacking downfield and were one unlucky deflection/reception away from being in the title game.

College football is the only pure football left anymore. If you have Trent Richardson, you ride him to a national championship. If your best player is an inside linebacker, you tell your Frosh QB to protect the ball and you play clock-control to an undefeated season. If you have Barkley and the best WR corps in the nation, you fire that !@#$ing pigskin. And the rules are set up in a manner that will let any of those styles win.

It isn't the NFL and the college voters shouldn't treat it as such. They should recognize that, in the NCAA, a middle linebacker like Te'o can absolutely be as critical and integral to a teams success as its quarterback can.

The question posed was who I thought was the better player, not who had the better season. And besides, during the show tonight the Game Day crew was throwing up stats that covered both of CK's seasons as starter. I am pretty sure that all three of them are voters. So if it is a relevant point to the voters I do not see why it wouldn't be in this discussion. :shrug:

Fair enough. My point was that the press' love of the SEC talked about JM's win against 'bama while ignoring two home losses and then talked about CK's Baylor loss and while ignoring eleven wins. Not to mention the fact that at least a portion of the voters didn't wait to see the eleventh win. How people can vote with one week of football left is beyond me.

I am not saying that Klein should or should not have won. You can make a case for either of the QBs that were there tonight. I just want to throw a question out there: does Johnny Football win the award as a freshman if he is in any other conference?

Jesus, no. Like I said - different games.

What he does is huge at that level. And if this were the mid-1970s it would be huge here.

But there's no question that his game, while it translates extremely well to the next level, isn't nearly as important as getting your pass rush and your quarterback in place.

That's why I've said I'd trade back into the first for him if he started sliding. If we take Geno, and with Houston and Hali in the fold, we have the QB and the pass rush taken care of. So now you address your intermediate coverage, your leadership and firm up your run-stopping by taking Te'o.

QB, LT, Pass Rushers and monster WR's (if I already have the other 3) are about the only things I'm taking in the top 5.

If somehow Teo were to be available late teens I'd think about trading back up, but I also think there are LB's who can do what he would do at the next level, or atleast adequately do it, later in the draft.

And a dominant DB.

I'd rather get Geno/Wilson at 1 and then get Alec Ogletree in round 2.

Absolutely...Klein got robbed because KSU will NEVER get the respect they deserve until they can get into the BCS title game. PERIOD.

I don't believe I said either of those things.

I think Te'o is a good player on one of the best college front 7s I can ever remember seeing. I don't think he's a great player and I think the team would excel without him. I don't think he's anywhere close to being a dominant player like, say, Ndamukong Suh, who was what, 4th in Heisman voting that year (now that was a travesty). I think he's ultimately just one of what will be a bunch of NFL players off of that front 7. As I said, I think it's about the greatness of the unit, not the player.

This was a weird year, in any case. I'd probably have voted for Marqise Lee. Thought he was hands down the best player I saw this year. Although it's hard to vote against Manziel. Both the yardage and the freshman thing. And I think there's very little doubt just how valuable he was to that team.

The award is too much a popularity contest and too much about wins and losses. You see it in this thread, where people are complaining about a quarterback winning because his team lost TWO games. Geno Smith isn't even on the ballot with a 4000-yard, 40 TD, 6 INT season, but his teammate Tavon Austin is? Because Smith's the face of a team that lost five times? (I'm not saying he should have won, just making the point...) Isn't the award supposed to be for the most outstanding player in college football? Or is it the most outstanding player on an team that goes undefeated or loses once in college football? It's like you can't be outstanding if your team loses. There were people a year ago complaining about a 3-loss Baylor QB winning it. I guess it's not about being the best. It's about being on the best team. That's why Smith lost the award (and wasn't even in NYC) once WVU lost. That's why Collin Klein went from front-runner to also ran...with one loss.

Klein was robbed. I'll post my reason when I get home.
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I agree with you - there's now too much emphasis on W/L.

In a timely example - Bo Jackson won the Heisman in a year that Auburn lost 4 games and finished something like 5th in their conference.

Won't happen again.

I also agree that Marqise Lee should've been there.

Like I said - I've lost all semblance of give a !@#$ about the Heisman at this point. In fact, I was pretty sure I stopped caring last season when Montee Ball was essentially ignored despite having one of the greatest rushing seasons in NCAA history. Why? Because people didn't think he'd be a great pro.

He led the nation in rushing, had a better YPC than Richardson and scored 39 freakin' touchdowns. And he was a complete afterthought. He finished behind a guy he clearly had a better season than primarily because that guy (Richardson) was a better pro prospect.

The Heisman is a racket at this point.

56th in the nation in tackles, not even top 100 in forced fumbles or tackles for loss, 681st in sacks. What exactly was he dominating again? He didn't even lead his own team in tackles for loss, QB hurries, or sacks.

Jarvis Jones was truly the best linebacker in the nation this year and didn't even get consideration. Hell, Anthony Barr from UCLA has a legit argument for best LB as well. Manti Te'o didn't belong anywhere near the Heisman ceremony tonight, let alone actually winning the award.

The Heisman is an offensive award. LMAO

This place is full of weeping pussies.

This. And even more to the point, it changes from year to year, and some times even changes during the season. We always hear about how a certain player needs their team to go undefeated and once they lose they are more or less out of it. Then last year we have, as you pointed out, a winner from a three loss team. This year we hear that Klein has to go undefeated to be able to win. He loses one game (and still finishes the regular season with a conference title, a top 5 team and playing in a BCS bowl). So then a two game loser wins the trophy?

There is no consistency in the requirements. It is all about who the media decides they want to win.

Go Blue :)

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-vS3682dswO...isman+1997.jpg

And Tom Brady being picked in the 6th round proves that late round QB's work.

The Baylor game killed Klein chances no question about it

Why is the heisman trophy relevant?

I'm cool with Manziel winning the award. He had a great season and just looking at his stats he was certainly deserving. I just wish they would call the Heisman what it really is, "the offensive MVP award".

There has never been a player that played strictly defense win the award. And anyone who posts a picture of Woodson to dispute this fact is a ****ing moron. Woodson's coaches played him on offense for several plays for the explicit reason of improving his Heisman resume. I wonder what a defensive player has to do to win the Heisman? Suh was worthy and despite all the ND hate, Teo was worthy. 7 ints while still playing strong run defense and displaying unbelievable leadership skills is phenomenal. He deserved to be on that stage and if he would have won there shouldn't have been much argument.

Ride it out with Cassel/Quinn for 2 more years and then draft Johnnie herpateederp

Why wait? Klein is going to be available in the next draft!

I watched every game Manziel played this year because he is truly exciting to watch. He is a better version of Steve Young. Whoever drafts him will be a lucky team. He is the EXACT OPPOSITE of Cassel . Johnny Football rocks !

I've had dumbasses tell me the Chiefs should take him first overall....and they were dead serious :eek:

I'm dead serious , if we get the #1 pick we should take him 1st overall !

Hog, your dumbassery has already been well established :D

That is a stat that just was not reported enough.

Comparing him to Tebow and Cam Newton and then saying thats the reason you gave him the Heisman is ridiculous. So it's about 4600 passing yards? I thought the Heisman was for the best player in all of college football. A quarterback on a 10-2 team is not the best player in college football. A quarterback who had one win against a top 10 team and that is only because his defense contributed an end game stand to secure the win. Basically the pundits are saying because he won against Alabama, and because he had more passing yards than Cam Newton and Tim Tebow... because we know Tim Tebow was a passing quarterback, that he deserves the Heisman.

I thought it should've gone to Teo. That is the guy who encompasses a leader and a student athlete in the truest sense of the word. I think it's funny how Colin Klein has a bad game or two and is suddenly out of it. Last night people kept saying "Don't forget about Colin Klein." Everyone it seems forgot about Colin Klein.

So what we've learned about the Heisman is:
If you have a concussion, and you have an off game or two, you're DQ'd.
If you have more passing yards than the guy who won it before you, your chances are really good.
If you have a win over an overrated team, comparative to years past, your in.
If you are a stand up guy, who led a defense, team, and college, back from obscurity... sorry, you're a defensive player, we only give the Heisman to QB's, RB's and WR's.

Oh yeah and if the media runs off with a catchy nickname for you, you're golden.

It appears Klein isn't even going to get an invite to the Senior Bowl.

That tells me that scouts don't think much of him as a NFL prospect.

I love CK, but he's probably not an NFL QB. He just doesn't have the release and arm strength of a starting NFL QB. However, he's a guy you want on your roster. I could play an H-Back/special teams role for sure.

I'm just trying to make sure everyone noes.

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