Any Linux users here?
 

Alright, so I'm an IT student right now and we're working with virtual machines, using windows 7. We're getting into Linux later this quarter, and I have no experience with it. I'd like to set up a VM and tinker with it before we get into class with it. I know this forum is crawling with techies, so I ask you Chiefsplanet, what would be the best version for someone to get their feet wet with Linux?

Mint is probably your best bet.

http://linuxmint.com/

I used it for a bit but ditched the entire Linux experience... just isn't for me.

i'm not sure how i'll like it. i've been a windows user my entire life, and i hate adapting....

+1 for CentOS.

http://www.centos.org/

It's enterprise level, it's server, and it's free. It's based on RHEL, which is a very common distribution for a range of servers. If you're learning linux for IT reasons, I imagine you're going to be learning on RHEL.

OpenSUSE is another option if you're interested in working with client side stuff, though I don't see this as particularly applicable as any workstation in production that you're going to be dealing with is almost certainly going to be some strain of Windows.

If you're looking something a little more similar to your experience with Windows, I'd suggest Ubuntu.

It's really hard to go wrong and it's a great place to start. If you're just looking to tinker a bit, I'd start there actually.

http://www.ubuntu.com/

RHEL?

Red Hat Enterprise Linux. Sorry.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Hat_Enterprise_Linux
http://www.redhat.com/products/enterprise-linux/

Basically it's a server distribution aimed at corporations, academic campuses, etc.

i have heard that name thrown around. gonna give mint and ubuntu a try for now.

If you're learning for work and will be managing servers and other objects, you will be happy you learned on redhat.
After you're comfortable, you can move on to fun flavors like CrunchBANG and other very light, very manageable, very fun to use flavors.
Toss a flavor like Ubuntu or Mint on an old laptop or desktop laying around the house for a good desktop experience.
Just google all this. And get ready for some command line action.

And welcome

see, this is why i came here to ask lol. I'm still a student, in my second quarter of a 19 month program. so i've got some time to figure all this out.

Those are fine if you want to learn them from an end user perspective since they have well developed GUIs and are fairly user friendly but from a true IT knowledge perspective... not a good choice at all.

Pilsner had the best advice, RHEL, SUSE or CentOS... also you may want to look at Debian. Any of those 4 are great to learn on.

Here is the main issue... once you install it, you need to actually use it. Yes, Linux can be used as a desktop OS but learning it from that perspective is almost completely a waste of time. Your best bet is to set it up with various web servers, php, python, databases, mail, ftp, etc... and learn it from that end.

Learn how to set all of those up in various ways then learn how to manage the server after setup (migrating servers, what happens if your file system gets full, etc etc) .. do all of that and you will be WELL on your way.

AND of course, if you hit any snags, come here and start a thread asking questions... plenty of us here will help out.

i was thinking about just using this thread as kinda a catch all when i run into problems. figured chiefsplanet was too valuable of a resource to pass on. thanks for the advice everyone, i'm sure i'll need more over the next year and a half.

sucks, no reason to use it

I see people have already recommended RHEL and CentOS. Those are the two most common Linux VMs being deployed in enterprise clouds right now.

I use Xubuntu (an Ubuntu distro that uses XFCE instead of Gnome/KDE) and Fedora. Fedora is basically the non-enterprise build of Red Hat.

I wouldn't recommend Mint since it, as AustinChief said, is basically a pre-packaged GUI aimed at user-friendliness. Not a great learning platform as it hides much of the "guts".

I would recommend going with Ubuntu, which is a Debian derived flavor of Linux. If you are learning Linux at all, it will likely be primarily command line based.

Fair warning, once you use a proper OS with a unix like shell, you'll find Windows much less powerful.

There is a great screencast from Peepcode covering the basics of the command line and how the directory structures work. Understanding how the systems are structured will help make sure that you can safely update the OS without interfering with the code that you've either compiled or written yourself.

Another cool resource is command line fu for really cool shortcuts and commands that will make your life easier (sudo !! is my favorite).

Also since you're running in VMWare, remember that snapshots are nice, but not a substitute for backups.

While the package manager in Ubuntu is nice, you also ought to try to compile some of software on your own. I always compile nmap from scratch. You also might try Alpine, which can be configured as an imap client to connect to gmail of all things.

Personally I've used Slackware and numerous versions of Ubuntu. GUIs for Linux kind of suck, but if you've used Windows you're used to that. I run the latest long term support version of Ubuntu in a VM for some server based stuff and use Back|Track when I need weapons. It's also Ubuntu based.

I dual boot Ubuntu and Windows, but could probably get away with a Windows VM, since I hardly use it. It's completely changed my perspective from "it's just the way it is" with Windows to being able to fix pretty much any big or small annoyance. If you're willing to spend the time researching and using those annoyances as opportunities to learn the OS, it's a good way to get your feet wet.

Like others have said though, if you want to start from scratch, I'd pick up a book on RHEL in order to learn command line basics, etc.

I've never had to use Red Hat (and don't see it happening) but I'm curious. Other than using yum for the package manager are there substantial differences between that and Debian based Linux?

RedHat (and Fedora) are both RPM for package management so completely different really from Debian and derivatives (ie. Ubuntu).

I generally use CentOS for enterprise stuff.

But if you really want to learn how linux works under the hood, I suggest you do a scratch install of either Arch or Gentoo. You'll hate it, and then you'll love it.

Didn't think about that but good advice.

sounds like i got a lot of work to do. thanks again for the advice everyone.

Most of our servers at work are running CentOS - and I run Fedora on my work Laptop just to keep the redhat flavor across the board

Love Linux

i was browsing and came across your build thread. have you had any problems having the dual boot option? one of my teachers said there had been issues with vista, 7, and 8 "sharing" the computer with linux, just wondering if you had any issues.

I've tried VMs of mint, and fedora, but settled on installing Backtrack 5, which is ubuntu based, and comes with a bunch of security tools. I liked the others, but their GUI made them too much like windows for what i'm trying to do here, and wasn't using them at all. I'm learning as i go with this stuff. anybody got any advice for me regarding backtrack?

Look into the training materials from the guys at Offensive Security. I'm a pretty heavy Back|Track user and have gone through their paid course. They also have a free course on metaspoit.

You might want to try to find out when the next SecKC meeting is. Lots of BT fans there...also the local Defcon group and the CCCKC mailing list.

I started off with Ubuntu. At work though we use SLES, so I switched to OpenSUSE (basically the free version of SLES). Both have a decent GUI if that's what you're into, but I wouldn't say I have a preference towards either one. I basically just have a spare old computer that I run a web/file/print server from within my house, so for what I use it for it really doesn't matter the OS.

This
offensive-security will be your best resource. I'd download their Metasploit build if I were you..

When I moved to Chicago I had to switch to wireless internet for my desktop - well i never bothered to get the wlan adapter to work in linux and I was playing more games on windows anyway - so my desktop has been a windows only box for about a year.
I

I have fedora installed on my work laptop as the sole OS with a Windows 7 VM I boot to access exchange / lync

I find BackTrack is almost overkill for my needs

I haven't delved into it for years, but get a 64-bit Win7 box, load up Virtual Box, and I'd go with SUSE. Always was my fav distro... but like I said, I haven't done jack with it in years.

Back|Track is now Kali Linux. Moves from Ubuntu to Debian...which I'm sure for many is a distinction without a difference. I'm downloading the VM now and have the day off. Looks like I may be taking the D out of my wireless DMZ today.

But seriously...if you think it's a good idea to connect to the open AP with the SSID of "Autopwn" you're kind of asking for whatever I'm throwing at you.

Linux is regulated to the pure geekdom of tech history. Just 5-10 years ago businesses were considering Linux as at least web servers but now it's dying and has no future in business. It will be what it is or less as time goes on.

It will always be a toy of geeks. Not making a judgement on thats the way it should be, just stating the reality.

If you want to really learn to earn money.......... Vmware/SAN/Security/AD will get you the most opportunities in I.T. shops.

Not sure if trolling or serious.

Knowing how to drive a *nix operating system is part of any well rounded set of tech skills. One reason to get started with Linux is that you can learn it for free instead of having to pay for Microsoft training or the licenses to set up a lab in your own place.

If you're doing security on the red team, either the tools are linux based, or you've got to work to get the Linux tools working in a Windows environment or run Linux in a VM.

Now I wouldn't call what I do traditional, nor would I say that I work in the "IT Shop" for my organization per se. I use skills developed over time in the following OSs for the following purposes:

Backtrack/Kali Linux - Red cell work, forensic acquisitions of *nix like OS's including OS X.
SIFT 2.x - Linux based forensics on all operating systems
Windows 7 - Windows based forensic analysis and email
OS X - Used for multimedia preservation, software development and as my host OS for virtualized systems.

As for your statement about Linux on the server dying, I think this chart goes against what you're saying.

<img src="http://news.netcraft.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/wpid-overalld1.png">

You are so FOS. Dude, a n00b will never have a better chance at a career in Linux than Microsoft. It's really bad advise to give people who just want to enter the field.
That explains a lot.ROFL

... Is this a real thing? Linux is slowly eroding most of the Unix market. You can make money in a ton of areas in IT. I'd say being an Oracle DBA with experience with a T1 ERP is really strong whether it's SAP, EBS, etc. It seems like those guys can get laid off and have a job within a week.

I'm surprised OEL hasn't received more recommendations in this thread. I know of at least 3 big corps switching to OEL over the last 2 years. Granted, it's pretty much RHEL. Support is so cheap though, lol. Of course, if Oracle can kill Canonical they'll come back with the rape mode on the pricing.

When Oracle bought Ksplice that was a big deal.

Anyway, I'm not sure how much running Linux as a home OS will help the OP but it can't hurt for sure. It can be a real challenge for even basic stuff. Wireless in particular can be a real bitch :(

Debian and Red Hat are great to know. Once you understand rpm and deb package management you can fix broken yum and apt get problems. After you get that down you have masted 90% of the Linux world.

Then when your serious download Slackware and get to work. Build from source and control where your apps live. Much more enjoyable than spec files.

http://www.slackware.com

Backtrack did a version based on slax ( which is based on slack ) a few revisions back.

From auditor and whax to backtrack to Kali. What's next?

I've got two senior positions open for a Unix admin. Redhat experience is a must.

Unix/Linux is very much alive in enterprise level IT.

Putting aside the attention to detail that you give to proofing your own posts, I'm not sure if you actually read what I or the OP wrote.

Neither he, nor I, suggested that he should be or actually is pursuing a "career in Linux" over something else.

Learning Linux helps generate critical thinking skills which can be applied in any type of situation and don't clearly stand out on a resume. In particular, working with a security based distro like Kali/Backtrack gets a person's feet wet with things like TCP/IP, firewall configuration, bash scripting, email administration and troubleshooting and gives someone a healthy sense of skepticism when it comes to things like antivirus.

I suppose it's a difference in perspective. If you want to get a "job" instead of a "career" then just learn the bare minimum and go do that 9-5. If you want a "career" then go build a set of skills, enhance your ability to solve problems and find an area within technology that you can feel passionate about.

As far as your tremendously insightful "That explains a lot ROFL" response, how about you point out why my comments and perspective are less relevant than yours because I don't work as a line IT worker.

If someone is in the IT field and they don't know Linux I consider them at a severe disadvantage.

@Dave did you conquer the oscp after taking the backtrack class? I was hoping to do that someday but would have to pay out of my own pocket

I haven't, but have gone through a good portion of the self study materials that come when you sign up for the OSCP class. The materials are quite good, and the labs are far from easy. I'm in the same situation where I'd be paying out of my own pocket, and at this point I don't do security as part of my formal job. That said, since the person that never finished the OSCP class isn't at my employer at this point I may see if I can transfer it over to me if/when I find time.

Last year at defcon they started doing training sessions which are less expensive than the Blackhat training but probably just as good. It might be something to look into.

Thanks for the info. PWB at blackhat is already full. I hope to do the online class someday when I get time to dedicate to it. The endurance test of the 24 hour exam seems like quite the challenge. I don't know python but have heard it might be passable knowing some perl and shell scripting.

Maybe someday

You going to be out there for DC21?

Not as it stands currently. Would like to but not in the plans yet

I was making no judgement on the quality of Linux vs. Windows. Just stating the facts in the business world.

I've been hiring techs in the SAN, Windows, Vmware, SharePoint, Exchange, AD, SCCM, SCOM, Blackberry and Unix fields for over 6 years now. Best in world level down to entry level techs. I work with tech people don't even know exists. I think that qualifies me to offer a learned opinion on how to best enter the I.T. field and have a long career.

That being said I shouldn't discount your opinion and experience. My bad. Sorry for coming off as a dick. :thumb:

You should fix that. Flights are still cheap and I'll bet you can still get a room on-site.

Not a big deal. Cheers.

Right now I'm dual booting Windows and Ubuntu on my laptop. Since it has 2 hard drives it works really well. I also use Ubuntu on a flash drive so I can have a portable OS to take anywhere I go. I have also tried MINT and really just like experimenting with the different types even though I'm fairly new to it all.

Sorry to bump an old thread of mine, but just wanted to throw this out there. I sent my first resume out, had my first interview, and got a job out of it. One of the reasons I got it was because I had tinkered with Linux, and had some knowledge of red hat.

I've used Mint and Ubuntu as desktop OS and they are very similar. I prefer Ubuntu. Happy trails.

Dave is right on LAMP servers though, far and away the most used server platform driving the Internet, and will continue to be. It's just flat out reliable.

It's a safe bet to assume the money/opportunities are in Windows (not that you're assuming... you obviously have the experience)... of course that's what people are familiar with and it's what needs to be fixed.

I certainly wouldn't say Linux is dying and (depending on what you meant, I guess) has no future in business. It's not going to take over the application layer any time soon, but it's the backbone of what you see and gets shit done on the back end. I don't know what that translates out to in salaries and what not, but it's definitely not just a toy for geeks.

It's not even close to dying... I believe this is my second post in this thread and I've since gotten my LPIC.
A survey in the latest pcworld magazine shows one of IT businesses top missions in 2014 is beefing up their linux support/talent.
We now have 4 unix admins and we are all very well paid and always have a full plate.

edit: A toy for geeks? That's probably the dumbest ****ing thing I've read from you - and I consider you a somewhat knowledgable person in IT...

A good portion of all SoC based appliances, whether you're talking about networking gear, video streaming devices, or whatever else, are running a Linux kernel of some kind.

It's not dead, it's evolving.

I am a Application Administrator - The web application runs best on the LAMP stack and because the company is mostly a windows shop my boss and I are the main Linux Administrators as well.

We've been showing the windows guys some tricks.. I'm a Linux Nerd lol I got my Linux+ back in 2008, which means I have it for life without retesting lol

Go with SUSE, Fedora or CentOS. Don't use the Desktop, Do everything at the Console.

I was a long time Windows Admin and got stuck doing UNIX/AIX and now RHEL and not having a GUI to start was the hardest part.

Just start off Command line.

Linux is dying

Riiiight

Linux is the best thing to have on your resume. I have done Linux work for a decade and constantly get job offers because of my Linux experience.

VMWARE and Linux.

https://thevarguy.com/open-source-ap...c-starts-aug-1

Speaking of Linux on a resume...

These are the most common distro's I see in the Enterprise space, along with RHEL.

I'm good with whatever bastardized versions are running shell/expert mode on our various networking gear/appliances/SAN.

All are rpm based distros

Most are centos clones or neutered versions of centos

Correct.

Anyone interested eDX is offering a free online 'into to Linux' course. It's self-paced unline all their other courses so time is no excuse. It starts and the very basics and takes you up to advanced scripting, networking functions and processes.

It used to be $800 course (classroom) if I remember correctly. I'm starting today if anyone else gets in let me know and we can meld minds.

https://www.edx.org/school/linuxfoundationx

Desperately in need of a Linux refresher.

That's great! Thanks for the heads up.