That is one of the cliche around here. Anything that didn't work out sets the franchise back 10 yrs. That is why this franchise is so far behind. We have had at least 4 or 5 of those type of things happen in the last couple of years. Not to mention all of them from before.

I wanted to like Haley. However, I can probably think of no fewer than 10 Hermesque coaching gaffes that blew games, and this was when the team was quasi-good. I simply cannot tolerate that shit.

LMAOLMAOLMAO

To be fair, it is doubtful Todd was allowed to make significant personnel moves that would enhance the roster.

To the last point, I'm not sure Todd had any control over hiring. I don't think anything Haley did set this franchise back 10 years. Not saying Todd is the answer but when you have other variables constantly ****ing up others, it makes it difficult to evaluate. For example, Cassel and the OL or our WRs. Barry Richardson is not good but he didn't give up a sack with Orton for 3 games.

First off, roids and GH GROW your dick, you idiot. It's the balls they shrink.

And you stating that Haley was a terrible coach is ****ing wrong and stupid.

Got it?

So we're just going by coaching?

Ok: horrible game day coach. His best motivational tool was benching his best players. He fired two successful OC's to coach horrible offenses himself.

What positives are you looking at that would make you want to retain him?...

Okay, Haley lovers: Please explain to me how Todd Haley, the Chiefs head coach less than 12 months ago and the person MOST familiar with the Chiefs personnel, needed overtime to score just 16 points?

16 points.

Atlanta: 40 points
Buffalo: 35 points
New Orleans: 24 points
San Diego: 37 points
Baltimore: 9 points
Tampa Bay: 38 points
Oakland: 26 points
San Diego: 31 points
Pittsburgh: 16 points

16 points! 13 in regulation. Wow, what a ****ing OFFENSIVE GENIUS.

Todd Haley ****ing blows. He wouldn't have a ****ing job as an OC if his Dad weren't best buddies with the Rooney family. There were people here (myself included) that thought he'd destroy the Chiefs.

Haley = Peter Principled Dumbass ****.

**** him.

You're aware of who our GM was, right?

And this is one week after the Chiefs cut their 2nd best corner and promoted a brand new D coordinator.

And they were at home...

No, I don't have it, Mr. SEC. If 'roids and HGH made your dick bigger, that shit would be on every counter in every drugstore and grocery store in the country.

:shake:

Haley ****ing sucked. Anyone that thinks otherwise is just outright ****ing dumb and doesn't watch any NFL games outside of the Chiefs.

Kind of like you and the SEC.

Your point?...

Totally agree. I had a longer post but it got deleted on accident :(
IMO, here are some things we can all agree on.

1. Pioli limited Todd and was exceptionally detrimental to his possible success as a HC
2. Todd was not a good gameday coach
3. Todd did not work well with others (whether these are coaches forced upon him or not)
4. Todd did instill good conditioning and for several players a good level of accountability
5. Todd didn't do anything during his coaching tenure here to show he was an elite leader.

I think that Todd got an unfair shake but don't mistake me for thinking he was a prodigy. He was young however and I wonder how it could have turned out with a GM he could work with. He did several things that were baffling.

Matt Cassel

LOL Okay

While I acknowledge that our players might have played with more gusto due to the circumstances, Haley's playcalling was not good on MNF IMO. However, his 2X SB winning Qb got KO'd. There are several different variables to consider. One must determine for themselves which had more impact.

But before he was out, they only scored 10 points.

10 points.

Offensive genius.

:rolleyes:

That doesn't even make any sense.

If Todd Haley was a great coach or offensive coordinator, he should have been able to carve up the Chiefs defense. A Chiefs defense that was allowing high double digit scoring to many teams.

Your argument is weak. Actually, it sucks.

Well, hell then.

Romeo ain't all that bad.

It's just the man holding him down...

I acknowledged that by stating Haley's playcalling was exceptionally poor.

Well, his playcalling was always poor. That's pretty much my point.

:D

That should say IS not WAS.

You must not know much about that drug culture then. So don't go spouting off about it when you're ****ing clueless about it. It's well know to have that side effect. Just go visit some boards. Or hell, ask Jose Conseco who wrote about it in his book and verified by his wife. It's on every shelf in every pharmacy I dunno, because it's a ****ing class III scheduled drug, you moron?


You mean that conference that won the last ****ing 6 national championships? Yeah you're really winning with that argument you tard. JFC.

There are so many variables to consider. Pitt coming off an emotional game with the Giants, missing players, emotional effects for the Chiefs D, etc.

To try and just blame 1 party exclusively for their entire offensive performance seems silly to me and I think Haley did a piss-poor job attacking KC.

That doesn't excuse Haley from yelling at his players and coaches on the sidelines, nor does it excuse him from playing Larry Johnson for 10 games before Jamaal Charles, nor does it excuse him from starting Mike Goff over Wade Smith, nor does it excuse him from trying fake punts inside his own 20 yard line nor does it excuse him from being a ****.

Need I go on? I can. I remember all of his stupid shit like it was yesterday.

Clearly, most of you people have not.

Eh, his playcalling against Philly (first half playoffs), Atlanta (playoffs), Pitt (SB) and a few other games during his brief tenure as the Cards OC were fantastic.

He was up and down IMO. One also has to acknowledge he had 2 HOF players on offensive skill positions and several other good players.

It's the NFL. The Steelers had an extra day to prepare.

Making excuses doesn't further the argument that Todd Haley is some sort of uber genius.

The facts prove otherwise.

No, I agree that that shit was ****ing dumb.

http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=311218012

Any given Sunday you idiots. JFC........

ROFL

Who said he was an uber genius? I said that there are several variables you have to account for. To dismiss them is asinine.

How much of that was Whisenhunt and how much of that was Haley?

It's pretty clear to me that Tony Sparano and Todd Haley had success in Dallas due to ONE reason:

Sean Payton.

Both of those guys haven't done dick since moving on from the Cowboys. After seeing Haley's play calling with the Chiefs and now Pittsburgh, I'm pretty sure he was another in the long line Peter Principle'd coaches, if not outright and pure nepotism.

No, it is not.

Occam's Razor.

If Tampa Bay can put up 38 points, why can't Todd Haley? The guy that knows every strength and weakness of the Chiefs defense, like no other person on the planet?

Let's not forget that Byron Leftwich has won a ton of games in the NFL. He wasn't exactly Tyler Palko out there. And even so, the playcalling didn't change from Ben to Leftwich.

I can't accurately judge anything under Pioli. I don't know how anyone could do their job adequately with that ****stick around.

We thought last seasons OL was shit until Orton was under center.

Yeah, we're idiots yet the Chiefs are 1-8.

Thanks.

Right.

So you can't judge Romeo Crennel's defense or head coaching ability?

You can't judge Clancy Pendergast's awful defenses that were so bad, he's coaching college football because no one wanted him around?

You can't judge Steve Hoffman's awful Special Teams?

Are you watching the game with blinders on? I know you don't drink, so something's impeding your view for the past 3+ years.

Again, that is a variable to consider. I am under the impression Haley was in charge of playcalls for AZ that year. I have no idea as to the influence or control Wiz had that year. I do know that they both incorporate similar philosophies. However, it very well could be that Haley was just PP'd.

All I'm trying to really say Dane, is that it is hard to make a complete evaluation on Todd due to his circumstances here without knowing entirely what he had control over. There are several things he did that were laughable. There were also things that I did appreciate.

Personally, the things that I know he had control over that he ****ed up are in larger quantity than the things he did exceptionally well here. However, it is entirely possible he could have done more things better with a more encouraging GM.

You might have thought that.

Byron Leftwich is garbage. Come on.

I acknowledged that Todd did a poor job on MNF. That doesn't mean he is entirely horrible.

He was a complete cluster**** of a **** in 2009.

He was forced to hire Romeo, Weis and Zorn in 2010 and his team improved dramatically.

Weis left and in 2011, he was back to being a ****, who was later fired with cause.

I just look at the facts. There have been countless coaches throughout NFL history that have clashed with their GM and his personnel decisions, yet went on to win and win consistently during the regular season and playoffs (some, even Super Bowls).

Todd Haley is not NFL head coaching material. He may be a decent OC on his own but he's facing his biggest challenge yet:

The Pittsburgh Steelers without Ben Rothlisberger.

Let's see how well he does with Batch and Leftwich, two guys that Bruce Arians was able to win with, before crowning his ass.

It doesn't mean that he's anything special, either, which what some Chiefs fans want to believe.

Hindsight is 50/50.

You know I'm not "crowning his ass". I think that this situation will be a good chance to evaluate Todd.

The rest of your post I agree with and you know that through my previous posts.

LMAO love watching the Haley haters get their panties in a bunch.

I liked Todd and think things could have been different under better management.

I'm done here. He's not with the Chiefs anymore and I couldn't give a shit less.

I wasn't referring to you with this statement, just people in this thread.

Apologies.

I hope you aren't lumping me in with that group. He could be special but for me, it is hard to make a finite determination based on his tenure here, given the circumstances.

That said, if I were a GM, I would likely pass on Todd at the moment.

Missed this post.

Enjoy some of da Boxxy
http://chan.catiewayne.com/b/src/132866036959.gif

What could you have possibly liked about Todd Haley?

He had the personality of a ****ing goat turd. His teams sucked ass on the field. He was a ****ing dick to his players and coaches.

Please explain.

Seeing as I was in Ohio during his time and not a member of the Chiefs, I don't have the first damn clue.

Seems like his ex players liked him. Breaston signed with the Chiefs because of him.

Anyway, that's all. I no longer care enough about Todd to continue discussing this.

Breaston signed with the Chiefs because they were the only team to give him $5 million up front and $5 million per year.

That's worked out well, considering he was deactivated last night.

Todd did a great job coaching his team against his Jets last year didnt he?

Yeah but his moral support was AMAZING

The Steelers have scored 16 points in one other game.

Every other game they've scored 19 points or more.

The Ravens scored only 9 points against the Chiefs, and have scored 23 or more points in every other game.

Coincidentally, the Steeler and Raven games are the only games that the Chiefs have attacked early and often on defense from the opening kickoff.

I don't need a history lesson on the mistakes that haley made, but I contend that you are wrong that Haley was an example of the peter principle.

When Todd Haley gets a job with anyone unrelated to the Steelers or Parcells, I'll believe that.

Whisenhunt/Cards: Steelers
Pioli/Chiefs: Parcells Jets/Parcells Dallas (Also, his Dad was with the Jets as well)
Tomlin/Steelers: Steelers/Hid Dad

If the guy is fired and hired by a team like Seattle next year AND he succeeds, I'll give a little. Until then, he's just another in a long line of guys that have jobs in the NFL due to nepotism/cronyism.

That's actually just one reason I'd like to see the Chiefs hire a guy like Chip Kelly and let him do it his way: No NFL ties.

He certainly had a lot of fail in the "role players" he added but when you have a strong GM its hard to think that most of the actual players added is on the first time head coach vs. Mr. Amazing GM. I would argue he did a good job with DJ and Bowe.

Again, whatever your feelings on him as a coach, I think the actual roster decisions need to fall on the guy whose ego seems too large to let a first time head coach make any major player decisions. He got a few role players and Breaston. That didn't set us back 5 years.

:facepalm:

This is year FOUR since Haley and Pioli were hired.

Haley's since been fired. Crennel and Pioli will soon be fired.

How is 2013 NOT five years?

I don't understand how you can always get so mad at people for misreading your posts yet constantly do it to others.

You said Haley ****ed the team over for five and thats my issue. Pioli is the one that has ****ed them over for five years. Pioli is the common factor for every year. Haley didn't make the roster decisions that are the issue with this team.

If you feel he didn't use the roster correctly that's fine, but if that's the case the team should be better. Since it isn't, its pretty clear that the set back of five years doesn't fall on Haley, it falls on Pioli.

Haley completely ****ed over this team. His abrasive style, which included yelling at players and assistant coaches on the sidelines during games (which were caught by cameras) along with his overall coaching ****ed this franchise.

While it's true that Pioli has done a piss poor job of identifying free agents and college draftees, Haley didn't help himself or the team by playing Larry Johnson and Mike Goof for ten games, nor did he help himself by going for it on 4th down on his own 20, etc. and so on.

Pioli has been an abomination as a GM but Haley did absolutely nothing to help this team.

Nothing.

It'll be 2013 before this ship has been "righted", making it five years.

You know what Id loved to have seen?

Todd Haley with a LEGIT QB prospect in KC.

Look at what he has done EVERYWHERE ELSE he a has had one of those.

While I don't hate Haley like you, I don't feel I can disagree with your feelings on Haley and his time here. My only issue is that I don't think what Haley did ****ed them over beyond his regime. Once Haley left everything he was doing ceased to affect this franchise. So even if you feel this team under-achieved with Haley, it had no affect on the past 2 years.

I guess I just hear ****ed over and think a long term affect that keeps going beyond their time here. Like what DV did. I just think the difference is DV had a lot more say in personnel. Haley's affect on this time was strictly limited to the play on the field, and imho, wouldn't affect future teams once he wasn't around.

Really, my beef with your comment isn't what Haley did when he was here but the implication(at least how I took it), that his impact was still being felt.

ROFL

Yeah, sure.

Yeah, he scored 13 points last night against a 1-8 team.

Woo-hoo!

Post fixed...

Really?

Then why were they 5-8 when he was fired? Why did they win 2 games AFTER he was fired?

I don't remember the San Francisco 49ers falling off a cliff when Bill Walsh retired.

I don't remember the Denver Broncos falling off a cliff when Dan Reeves was fired.

I don't remember the Pittsburgh Steelers dumping seasons after Cowher left.

Yet, I'm to believe that the absence of Todd Haley and Todd Haley alone means that the Chiefs fall to 1-8?

Bullshit.

Ben was on pace to have his best year as a pro and the team was back in the elite class even though they were without some of their best players for a lot of the year.

Meanwhile, in KC...Bowe, DJ, and others have gone back to pre Haley form...or at best have gone back to being inconsistent.

Yeah that would be a neat change of pace.

So, Derrick Johnson this season and especially last night, was pre-Haley form?

No.

As for Dwayne Bowe, he's clearly mailed it in. Every report says he wants out and it's clear from his level of play that it's true.

He must hate the Kansas City Chiefs, Pioli, Crennel, et al so much that he's willing to leave money on the table by playing so poorly.

That, my friend, has nothing to do with Todd Haley.

He's the OC and he's doing (for the most part) a very good job.

When he was a HC he was an overlord and azzhole. He did not win. He did not make good decisions as HC on gameday or with talent. He did not get along with anyone under him.

He's now back at OC, told his (limited) role, and he's good there.

He's a Mike Martz, Norv, etc...

I'd say he's closer to Mike Nolan than either Martz or Norv.

Martz at least led his team to a Super Bowl and Norv's a Super Bowl winner under Jimmy Johnson.

Haley's just a **** that would be golf pro somewhere without his father's influence and connections.

Call it bullshit all you want, Dane. This team gave much better effort and played with far better energy under Haley because he MADE THEM.

Gyus dotn have to fear him getting in theri face when they **** up nowadays, and look whats happening AT A RECORD PACE....

THE TEAM IS ****ING UP.

In 2011, the Chiefs had 29 turnovers.

Through only 9 games of 2012, the same roster has 30 turnovers.

A similar correlation can be made for penalties and another thing Haley didnt have was nagging "hurts" that got played out like "injuries" like they are nowadays.

Haley gave this team a mental toughness that is sorely lacking without him...its not that surprising that the one game they DID show up was when Haley was across the field.

Haley was pretty damn close to a SB (as an OC who may/may not have had playcalling responsibilities) with a team that has been a perennial bottom-dweller, to be fair.

Agree with the basis though.

Yeah, its not like Bowe gave 10X this effort under Haley...

cmon Dane, you cant sit there and say that with a straight face, can you?

4-12

10-6

5-8

If you think THAT'S effort, I have a timeshare to sell you in Mexico.

Seriously, I have a timeshare to sell you in Mexico.

Where was Bowe's "effort" in 2011?

Dwayne Bowe has wanted out for years.

He's leaving no room for error in 2012.

Haley came up under Parcells as an assistant for the Jets.

Are you saying that Dick got him that gig while being a Steelers guy through and through?

Dick was Director of Player Personnel for the Jets under Parcells when Todd was hired as an assistant

Personally, I think that none of our receivers have displayed as much explosiveness coming out of breaks as they did in 2010 or 2011.

Could be attributable to Todd's conditioning/technique(doubtful on the latter) but could also be attributed to a lack of desire (i.e. going through the motions) or any other reason. They are human beings.

Entirely subjective and I've only watched 2 games this season on All-22 but that is my take on it.

1-8.

In 2011, Baldwin was invisible. Breaston had nearly 800 yards but hasn't seen the field much in 2012. Bowe has been Bowe. McCluster seems somewhat improved.

So, I guess I disagree with your analysis. :D

So how has anything that Haley brought to this team carried over?

Or are you saying that Haley actually has to be around for the Chiefs to play better?

They sucked last year, plain and simple, when Haley was around. They sucked in 2009 when Haley was around. They were somewhat better in 2010, when Weis and Crennell arrived, but that quickly wore off.

Todd Haley, IMO, doesn't deserve any praise, whatsoever.

Bullshit.

Of course haley should have been fired. The team was awful last year.

Crennell shouldn't finish out the season this year, either.