Poor argument then. Small sample size. Like comparing per/48 stats in NBA

How can you say he outplayed them when he couldn't even manage to get on the field?

Injury. But, whatever. I don't care about Bowers, just trying to show that passing on a guy because everyone else is isn't always the smart move.

It wasn't injury related, but that is how Houston became a Chief.

Warren Sapp and Randy Moss were passed over too. But you don't use those guys to prove a point...

I don't know about spinal stenosis, but dude was a freak at UGA.

Marcus McNeil was a top 10 elite left tackle prospect.

They discovered his stenosis at the combine I believe.

He fell to the 2nd round.

He played at a high level for 4 years and then started to break down. Now he's looking for a job.

Well, considering the average career is 3 yrs...

We need to do something about this falsehood.

The average career is 3 yrs because there are hundreds of players that get a few games on their resume and never sniff the NFL again.

Some get a couple of years holding down spots on bad teams until more talented players replace them.

The guys that have the talent to stick for longer usually go onto have 8, 10 years, or longer.

Oh I know, and a guy picked at 34 that only played for 3 years would be considered a bad pick. BUT, in the NFL I don't think you can expect 10 years. If you got an elite player for 5 or 6 you made a good pick.

Best indicator would probably be average career of players drafted in the first 3 rounds.

You better get more than 5 or 6 years out of a top 10 pick.

That's why I said pick 34. I agree with you.

Sure, but how many top 10 picks last?

6 of 2006's top ten didn't last 7 years with the team that picked him.

5 of 2007's top ten didn't last 6 years (although one died, so maybe he shouldn't count).

3 of 2008's top ten didn't last 5 years.

With the team that drafted them?

Just because guys without spinal stenosis bust doesn't mean you should take a guy with spinal stenosis and expect him not to...

If you're sure that the 4 or so years you would get from him would be great, I think he would be worth a late 1st. 4 years of greatness is much better than a bunch of average years.

That's the problem, you can never be sure.

From what I've read, Earl Campbell had spinal stenosis. He's in the HoF.

Then you have guys that never play a down after they're diagnosed.

To me, it's just not worth the risk, at least not that high in the draft...

That's amazing if true, Campbell was a BEAST.

Didn't Samaritan Rolle have it, too?

Thought that was the reason we didn't sign him and moved a pick for Surtain.

He has epilepsy.

Rolle made a good move by staying away from Gunther.

I don't know if it was ever confirmed but all the reports seemed to suggest that Rolle had a narrowing of the cervical spine, which would be stenosis.

I think tats a symptom of what he had...which I remember the same as Htis...that it was a narrowing of he spine. Same as what Jones has.

He played till he was 32.

Is there anyway Arthur Brown makes it to the 3rd round?

No way he makes it out of the second IMO. Could probably go in the first.

Walter is ****ing high if he thinks Tyler Wilson is going in the 2nd round, let alone AFTER EJ Manuel ROFL

I could potentially see Kelly snatching Manuel at #4 over Tyler. I can't in any way, imagine Tyler falling to the 2nd round. It would take IMO either Joeckel or Fisher falling to AZ and then Arians would have a very tough choice IMO. DO you try and help arguably the worst OL in the NFL and hope for a QB later that will probably not be a good fit or do you take a QB and hope to build your OL later + FA. I think that Arians will take a QB and will do his damnedest to build their OL via FA and in the draft after selecting their QB.

I still disagree with you guys on Manuel.

I think the combine and pro days will allow him to showcase his tools and I think he's going to climb draft boards pretty quickly. I honestly wouldn't be shocked to see him go as the 2nd QB off the board.

The kid has serious talent. Probably more than anyone in the draft. He's raw as can be, but if you could untap his potential, he'd essentially be the good version of Dante Culpepper but with an actual work ethic. I've called him a mobile Roethlisberger for awhile and I think that is still his upside.

EJ Manuel doesn't get a lot of love around here. But his upside is limitless.

He may have serious talent but has serious mechanical issues as well.

He's a freakish athlete but whether or not he can be an NFL QB remains a HUGE red flag.

EJ Manuel at #4 would be a HUGE mistake.

Probably because he just isn't very good.

You'd have to give Manuel the McNair/Rodgers treatment. Two plus years on the bench, minimum.

This

If, for some reason KC trades out of the first pick, don't be surprised if Manuel is a Chief next year.

Bring in Alex Smith for a year or two to allow Reid to groom EJ.

I see the draft falling one of two ways: Either KC drafts Geno with the #1 pick, or it trades with the Eagles and takes either Manuel or Wilson.

One of those two guys will be there at #4.

I think when all is said and done, with the proper coaching Manuel will be the best QB in this class. Out of the gate, Geno has a pretty big lead on everyone, however.

While Manuel does have a good bit of raw ability, how many guys like that have come in and flamed out?

I would say over 90 percent.
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EJ Manuel will go no later than the second. Brock Osweiler was way more raw and had way less physical tools than Manuel and he went in the second.

he's mocking a new draft right now via twitter...hopkins is gone in the first, so we'll have a new 2nd

new second round:

34. Kansas City Chiefs: Terrance Williams, WR, Baylor

I agree with him so far....

Keep in mind though.....he's mocking a WR in the 2nd round because he thinks we should let Bowe walk.

So that gives us Baldwin, Williams, Breaston, McCluster and Wylie as our WRs.

If we re-sign Bowe.....I doubt he mocks us a WR until the later rounds.

I mocked Williams because I thought we should keep Bowe and add a couple more recieving weapons.....:thumb:

Need to get rid of a couple of those guys.

our 3rd round pick is now gone in the 2nd...new 3rd coming up

i agree he'll change it

WR isn't our most pressing need, and drafting williams is basically giving up on Baldwin....but he's going to be a good WR, i think

new round 3

63. Kansas City Chiefs: Travis Frederick, G/C, Wisconsin
Ryan Lilja announced his retirement recently, which means Jeff Allen is slated to start at guard. The Chiefs cannot allow this to happen. They also have to find a backup center.

If this was the case, why not just take Jones in the 2nd and a WR/CB/S in the 3rd?

ROFL

I can't justify the Williams pick anyways when Rhodes, Austin, Amerson,etc. are still available anyways.

I think the Eagles will move up from their second rounder to take him.

Good fit for Chip Kelly.

72. New York Jets: Tyler Wilson, QB, Arkansas

91. New England Patriots: Tyler Bray, QB, Tennessee
The Patriots have used a third-round pick on a troubled but talented SEC quarterback before. There's talk that Bill Belichick could trade Ryan Mallett to Michael Lombardi, so if that happens, New England may search for another project at the signal-caller position.

I'd rather take Tyler Eifert or Xavier Rhodes in the 2nd.

I highly doubt he makes it out of the 1st let alone to 72.

38. Arizona Cardinals: E.J. Manuel, QB, Florida State

E.J. Manuel was the top signal-caller at the Senior Bowl. He's a good fit for Bruce Arians' vertical offense, unlike Tyler Wilson, whom I had slotted here a couple of weeks ago.

Same 4th round pick.

Brandon Jenkins, DE/OLB, Florida State
The Chiefs don't have much depth behind Tamba Hali and Justin Houston - as they discovered in the Week 1 loss to Atlanta - so they could spend an early 2013 NFL Draft pick on a rush linebacker.

yeah, we could Rhodes and Rambo in the 2nd/3rd and seriously lock down our secondary...and still have our comp 3rd for a wildcard like say Bailey...

not a fan of using any more top picks on OL this year

Jeff Allen was adequate last year. Yes, he got beat sometimes, but he was a rookie thrust into the starting position by injuries.

This. Re-signing Albert would solidify our o-line.

Albert - Allen - Hudson - Asamoah - Winston

Wasn't he a pretty goot LT in college? Maybe he should be playing there in the NFL? At least a swing T.

I'm all aboard on the Geno train, but I have to wonder what Reid could do with this freak of nature. I know he pissed the bed against FL, but otherwise he numbers look pretty good and he looked good in the SR Bowl for what that's worth.

I was going to post that but TC beat me to it. I doubt he makes it out of the top ten, probably the top 5.

I want Hudson back at LG and find a center somewhere.

Hudson looked like shit at center.

I just don't get it.

Several people at the Senior Bowl said Manuel was the WORST one there.

And not sure what he's talking about with him being a good fit for Arians. His passing game in college was mostly dink and dunk.

Did you watch the game itself? That's probably what they were talking about.

Joeckel and Albert are going to be pretty much a wash for several years. Your proposal is equivalent to given 1.1 + 4th round + 6th for Matt Barkley.

I didn't pay much attention to him. I remember him making several stupid plays when he was healthy, but that entire last season was just one giant "don't give a ****."

I'm definitely willing to give Hudson another try at C for another year, but I don't want to turn this into another Rudy Niswanger nightmare, where we patiently wait for this great C prospect to "get it" for a few seasons until we realize he never will.

Hopefully Reid will be able to determine if he can do it or not. If not, then he needs to start playing guard ASAP and stay there.

The game itself is pretty much worthless.

I was just pointing out that's why someone would say he was the best qb...he played well in the game.

Who are you going to put at center?

Geno will do well at combine. I imagine he wont throw but he'll run and do the wonderlic and interviews. He'll do well. He loves to study game film and loves football. He'll test well and interview well. We'll take Geno number 1. I want Albert re-signed. He's a good LT he's good enough to win with. If his back checks out medically ofcourse. I would love to get ILB Danelle Ellerbe from the Ravens in free agency to seal our LB core. We need to get another corner opposite of Flowers and another safety. Free agency is where we can smartly fill some holes. If Denver cut Champ Bailey he'd be a good veteran addition to the team and defense. He'd add proven leadership which we need on the defense. We also need 2 DEs because Dorsey is a FA and Jackson will be cut due to his 14 million dollar cap number this year. I would like to add maybe a guy like Richard Seymour to the dline. I know hes up there in age but he can still be effective. Add him and a DE in the draft.

For the offense we need to re-sign Bowe, he's our best WR option. I believe Breaston will stay he can be good in the WCO under Reid. Would like to see us get a WR in rd 2 of the draft. Would love to get Greg Jennings because he'd be great along side Bowe. Baldwin sucks. but Jennings does get hurt and I dont know how much we'll spend in Free Agency. We need a good number 1 TE to go with Moeaki who could be a solid number 2. So my pick would be Titans TE Jared Cook. Ive watched him he can be really effective. I would like to add a veteran QB to help with Geno. The guy id pick is Alex Smith. Im not a big fan of his but when he had a true QB guru he did well enough and showed he can win in the postseason as he did 2 years ago against the Saints. With Reid, he'd be fairly successful until Geno develops.

He already said he's going to throw
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Oh did he? I didn't know that thanks man. Just thought since Barkley wasn't he wasn't because he views himself as top QB

Pretty sure he said it during the 810 interview the other day
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I listened to it but don't remember hearing it. His agent will tell him what to do I'm sure

He did.

I believe he's tweeted it as well.

There's a post in the Barkley thread where Barkley is cited as saying that he's doing everything at the combine. Good to hear that we're going to get a show from all of these QBs - the more we see of them, the better.

I saw that. I read somewhere that Barkley wasnt. I dont know why he wouldnt its not like he's a top prospect

Barkley is SAYING that he's going to throw and run at the combine.

There's also a TON of rumor out there that he won't be ready for his PRO DAY, let alone the combine...

Well, the fact that he's saying it is progress. He had repeatedly said in the past that what he would do at the combine would be a "game time decision". If that hasn't changed, why would he be telling people differently now?

all of these mocks totally ignore Reid's "shell" philosophy and how that fits with the personnel we have- you need tackles and a QB on offense, bookend pass rushers and corners on defense.

That's where you spend the money, and I think he's right, by the way. So what do we have?

In a 3-4, you're talking OLB's. We're set with Hali and Houston. You've got one plus corner, you need another.

On offense, if you re-sign Albert (easiest thing in the world to do) you're set as Winston is also a plus player (no matter what the manbabys want to say after he hurt their feelings).

You've got NO QUARTERBACK. This is a major problem. But by all means, mock a left tackle and a bunch of guards to us in the early rounds.

Was Sam Bradford healthy enough to have his pro day? I can't remember.

Yep. I remember the photos where he looked about 25-30lbs bigger then he did during the season.

This is a great POST!!!!

Exactly correct.