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-   -   Someone is going to get a steal w/ Omenihu (https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=321590)

ntexascardfan 03-01-2019 03:57 PM
Someone is going to get a steal w/ Omenihu
 
Rashan Gary DE (Michigan): 6 4" 3/8; 277lb; 81 wingspan

Clein Ferrell DE (Clemson): 6 4" 3/8; 264lb, 82 wingspan

Nick Bosa DE (Ohio St): 6 3" 6/8; 266lb; 77 wingspan

Charles Omenihu DE (Texas): 6 5" 3/8; 280lb; 85 wingspan


Dude had to play in a 3/4 defense for the past few years at Texas...but will be a monster in a 4-3. He can play on either side of the line and has surprising burst for someone his size.

If all the top DB's are gone by the end of the first I'd take him. If Speaks doesn't take the next step this year he can fill in...if we let Ford walk after next season he could easily be the pass rushing DE to step up and fill in his space as well.

He's a guy who can stay on the field regardless of whether we are in our base or sub packages.

staylor26 03-01-2019 04:21 PM
Yea that’s the edge rusher I like the most in this draft outside of the top guys that will already be gone.

pugsnotdrugs19 03-01-2019 04:28 PM
He was impressive at the Senior Bowl

Chris Meck 03-01-2019 06:21 PM
If you can somehow have a 4-3 DE at 280 lbs. that is also QUICK as a pass rusher, then you can really crush offensive lines, you can play light and fast at LB...

I'm in.

kccrow 03-01-2019 07:27 PM
I like Austin Bryant a little better but would not mind Omenihu.

ntexascardfan 03-12-2019 10:19 PM
It seems like a Austin Bryant or Charles Omenihu type is getting more likely in the first...especially if we sign a FA CB.

CoMoChief 03-12-2019 10:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kccrow (Post 14130923)
I like Austin Bryant a little better but would not mind Omenihu.
I think Bryant is good, but is more a product of playing around a bunch of studs.

ntexascardfan 03-12-2019 10:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoMoChief (Post 14152504)
I think Bryant is good, but is more a product of playing around a bunch of studs.
That's my feeling too, I haven't seen him projected higher than a third...but kccrow seems pretty adamant that he's a stud, so I'm giving it the benefit of the doubt.

I honestly like how Omenihu would project on our line and he really showed out in Texas' bowl game v. Georgia and blew it up at the senior bowl when he had the chance to play in a 4 man front.

htismaqe 03-12-2019 10:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by staylor26 (Post 14130698)
Yea that’s the edge rusher I like the most in this draft outside of the top guys that will already be gone.
After reading your posts and doing some research, I like him. He's my #1 edge wish right now, thanks to you. :)

pugsnotdrugs19 03-12-2019 10:54 PM
Chiefs like him a lot from all that I’ve read.

ntexascardfan 03-13-2019 01:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 14152574)
After reading your posts and doing some research, I like him. He's my #1 edge wish right now, thanks to you. :)
He was on Rome the other day and gave a great interview.

https://www.jimrome.com/media/audio-...harles-omenihu

kccrow 03-13-2019 02:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoMoChief (Post 14152504)
I think Bryant is good, but is more a product of playing around a bunch of studs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ntexascardfan (Post 14152517)
That's my feeling too, I haven't seen him projected higher than a third...but kccrow seems pretty adamant that he's a stud, so I'm giving it the benefit of the doubt.

I honestly like how Omenihu would project on our line and he really showed out in Texas' bowl game v. Georgia and blew it up at the senior bowl when he had the chance to play in a 4 man front.
Sometimes studs play with studs, and that's really the case at Clemson. That front 4 for Clemson is so good because they are all individually good. Really, all 4 are guys that should go in the first 2 rounds of the draft. They can all win one-on-ones. They all have desirable traits in one facet or another.

When I watch games of Bryant and Omenihu back-to-back, the get-off, bend, closing burst, overall speed and agility, hand usage and energy level all favor Bryant heavily IMO. You also see Bryant generate a lot more consistent pressure on the QB by winning his match-ups and on second-effort. Bryant needs some work but I think Omenihu needs a lot more work. My opinion on Bryant is that his play strength and ball awareness significantly improved from 2017 to 2018 and he's on the ascent.

ntexascardfan 03-13-2019 10:55 AM
We might have to agree to disagree on the upside you see in Bryant.

Him + Omenihu were asked to be completely different players at the college level. I think my biggest point of difference with you would be over hand use and pass rushing moves. Omenihu has some of the best hands in this draft and has a variety of pass rush moves in his arsenal...he spent most of his time at Texas beating guys inside, but proved v. Georgia and at the Senior bowl that he can get you from outside as well.

Personally, I feel Omenihu gives you more flexibility and will find it easier to stay on the field in sub packages, whereas I don't see Bryant as a guy who will hold up inside as well when asked to take on more gap responsibilities and free up room for linebackers when we're not in a four man front.

kccrow 03-13-2019 07:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ntexascardfan (Post 14153775)
We might have to agree to disagree on the upside you see in Bryant.

Him + Omenihu were asked to be completely different players at the college level. I think my biggest point of difference with you would be over hand use and pass rushing moves. Omenihu has some of the best hands in this draft and has a variety of pass rush moves in his arsenal...he spent most of his time at Texas beating guys inside, but proved v. Georgia and at the Senior bowl that he can get you from outside as well.

Personally, I feel Omenihu gives you more flexibility and will find it easier to stay on the field in sub packages, whereas I don't see Bryant as a guy who will hold up inside as well when asked to take on more gap responsibilities and free up room for linebackers when we're not in a four man front.
Not being in a 4-man front will pretty much be never with Spags unless he completely changed his scheme during his off year. He's about as straight forward as you get in terms of what he does with his d-line. The one thing Bryant does do well is drop back into space on zone-blitzes, something that Omenihu cannot provide. Spags runs more of that than he will an odd front.

ntexascardfan 03-13-2019 07:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kccrow (Post 14155867)
Not being in a 4-man front will pretty much be never with Spags unless he completely changed his scheme during his off year. He's about as straight forward as you get in terms of what he does with his d-line. The one thing Bryant does do well is drop back into space on zone-blitzes, something that Omenihu cannot provide. Spags runs more of that than he will an odd front.
If you don't think Omenihu can't drop back into zone you didn't watch much of his film.

Todd Orlando would often drop his DE's back into zones and bring LB's and safeties in on blitzes....it's actually a staple of his scheme.

kccrow 03-13-2019 07:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ntexascardfan (Post 14155876)
If you don't think Omenihu can't drop back into zone you didn't watch much of his film.

Todd Orlando would often drop his DE's back into zones and bring LB's and safeties in on blitzes....it's actually a staple of his scheme.
I'll watch a couple more games but if he looks as slow and prodding as he did in the other 5 I'm probably not much for being on board aside from maybe a 3rd round pick as a LDE where he can use his power to hold the edge much like Eric Hicks of old.

Chris Meck 03-22-2019 11:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ntexascardfan (Post 14155876)
If you don't think Omenihu can't drop back into zone you didn't watch much of his film.

Todd Orlando would often drop his DE's back into zones and bring LB's and safeties in on blitzes....it's actually a staple of his scheme.
I honestly don't give a shit if he can cover.

Omenihu is a big, strong, bull of a man. He's got great hands, good leverage, will be a bull against the run and still give you a plus pass rusher.

He moves very well for a man that size.

You could easily play him at either DE spot. He'd kill lined up next to Jones. Having that beef on the line would allow you to play D'OD at WLB easily.

ntexascardfan 03-22-2019 12:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Meck (Post 14174343)
I honestly don't give a shit if he can cover.

Omenihu is a big, strong, bull of a man. He's got great hands, good leverage, will be a bull against the run and still give you a plus pass rusher.

He moves very well for a man that size.

You could easily play him at either DE spot. He'd kill lined up next to Jones. Having that beef on the line would allow you to play D'OD at WLB easily.
I think the Alex Okafor signing signaled that Omenihu is the type of DE we will be searching for in the draft.

Omenihu adds an extra piece of flexibility where he can be moved inside on passing downs and help create an extra pass rush. You could have a front for of Okafor, Jones, Omenihu, Speaks on obvious passing downs and really create some challenges for an offensive line up front.

Omenihu doesn't have the bend Okafor has around the edge, but he has a more diverse set of pass rushing moves and better hands than Okafor.

Chris Meck 03-22-2019 12:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ntexascardfan (Post 14174404)
I think the Alex Okafor signing signaled that Omenihu is the type of DE we will be searching for in the draft.

Omenihu adds an extra piece of flexibility where he can be moved inside on passing downs and help create an extra pass rush. You could have a front for of Okafor, Jones, Omenihu, Speaks on obvious passing downs and really create some challenges for an offensive line up front.

Omenihu doesn't have the bend Okafor has around the edge, but he has a more diverse set of pass rushing moves and better hands than Okafor.
I don't think the 'bend' around the edge is as important anymore. Not if the good QB's are getting the ball out in less than 3 seconds.

Inside pressure, like Reid said, that's the new trend to counter the quick passing game. That and confusion with coverage looks.

kccrow 03-22-2019 01:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Meck (Post 14174423)
I don't think the 'bend' around the edge is as important anymore. Not if the good QB's are getting the ball out in less than 3 seconds.

Inside pressure, like Reid said, that's the new trend to counter the quick passing game. That and confusion with coverage looks.
It's arguably more important. The ability for edge rushers to close that gap between the OT and the QB more quickly is the only way they are going to get pressure home. Sure, you have to be able to generate quick pressure up the middle, but you still need an edge rush that will force QBs into that inside pressure instead of having the ability to bail out of it. Guys with the athletic ability to do this are always going to be at a much higher premium than guys that can't and it's a big reason I see players like Omenihu being no more than 3rd round guys.

DJ's left nut 03-22-2019 01:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Meck (Post 14174423)
I don't think the 'bend' around the edge is as important anymore. Not if the good QB's are getting the ball out in less than 3 seconds.

Inside pressure, like Reid said, that's the new trend to counter the quick passing game. That and confusion with coverage looks.
Not as important as it used to be, no.

Which makes me not completely out on Ferguson either. I could probably talk myself into Ferguson in the 2nd if we haven't addressed DE already. I think Omenihu is far more polished and can contribute sooner, but Ferguson wouldn't be a bad fallback with perhaps a higher ceiling.

kccrow 03-22-2019 01:08 PM
To add... guys like Omenihu will have value because they have the size to hold up if they are asked to slide down inside as interior pass rushers while still holding the edge outside on run downs. Those types however, are fairly common overall and there's a bunch of them in this draft.

DJ's left nut 03-22-2019 01:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kccrow (Post 14174465)
It's arguably more important. The ability for edge rushers to close that gap between the OT and the QB more quickly is the only way they are going to get pressure home. Sure, you have to be able to generate quick pressure up the middle, but you still need an edge rush that will force QBs into that inside pressure instead of having the ability to bail out of it. Guys with the athletic ability to do this are always going to be at a much higher premium than guys that can't and it's a big reason I see players like Omenihu being no more than 3rd round guys.
You don't need to have ideal bend to force QBs into pressure. You need it to be able to finish the play and record the sack yourself, but not to get to a spot that creates uncertainty for the QB in the pocket. Not everybody can flush backwards and save a play like Mahomes; most will simply move up if they feel those footsteps and Omenihu's ability to get a OT reacting at the snap will be sufficient to create that.

kccrow 03-22-2019 01:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 14174474)
You don't need to have ideal bend to force QBs into pressure. You need it to be able to finish the play and record the sack yourself, but not to get to a spot that creates uncertainty for the QB in the pocket. Not everybody can flush backwards and save a play like Mahomes; most will simply move up if they feel those footsteps and Omenihu's ability to get a OT reacting at the snap will be sufficient to create that.
I don't see it watching him play. I think this place has him severely overrated. That of course, doesn't mean I'm not wrong. He could surprise me.

DJ's left nut 03-22-2019 01:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kccrow (Post 14174478)
I don't see it watching him play. I think this place has him severely overrated. That of course, doesn't mean I'm not wrong. He could surprise me.
I just get a bit of a Hali feel with him. Hali from the 3-point stance was an effective 'mauler' who could get in there and hand-fight with guys while using his length to maintain space. I don't see any reason why Omenihu couldn't be a very similar player.

htismaqe 03-22-2019 01:23 PM
The thing is, Speaks is that same kind of player. I get that you don't like Speaks but you're still doubling up on a similar skillset.

DJ's left nut 03-22-2019 01:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 14174501)
The thing is, Speaks is that same kind of player. I get that you don't like Speaks but you're still doubling up on a similar skillset.
I don't think Speaks has nearly the technical savvy, functional strength or length that Omenihu has. And I don't see Omenihu has being quite the plodder Crow does either; his burst is, at worst, fine. I think I even see it as an asset, but I surely don't see it as a liability.

Tribal Warfare 03-22-2019 01:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 14174501)
The thing is, Speaks is that same kind of player. I get that you don't like Speaks but you're still doubling up on a similar skillset.
Veach has said that he values Edge rushers in the Tamba and Terrell Suggs archetype. It's a fair assumption he is loading up on that passrusher variant.

htismaqe 03-22-2019 01:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tribal Warfare (Post 14174515)
Veach has said that he values Edge rushers in the Tamba and Terrell Suggs archetype. It's a fair assumption he is loading up on that passrusher variant.
But when you spend multiple high picks on the same position, at some point, you have high picks sitting on the bench. That's really not a recipe for success. Your 1st and 2nd rounders need to be starters, not depth.

Tribal Warfare 03-22-2019 01:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 14174534)
But when you spend multiple high picks on the same position, at some point, you have high picks sitting on the bench. That's really not a recipe for success. Your 1st and 2nd rounders need to be starters, not depth.
Veach is looking for the high end spectrum characteristics like Tamba or Jared Allen had. It's fine to have a specified type to play passrusher, but they'll have to extraordinary in the category of agility and 10 yard burst/closing speed like Tamba and Jared while being a student of the game.

With that said Veach seemingly is looking for picture perfect technicians in comparison to athletic freaks.

DJ's left nut 03-22-2019 01:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 14174534)
But when you spend multiple high picks on the same position, at some point, you have high picks sitting on the bench. That's really not a recipe for success. Your 1st and 2nd rounders need to be starters, not depth.
But if you choose to pass on talented players because you're pot committed to a prior guy (rather than willing to consider the possibility that he's a sunk cost), then you're Scott Pioli and that's not really a recipe for success either.

I think you can squint and see the same style of player in Omenihu as you have in Speaks, I simply think Omenihu is far more likely to prove worthy of the pick (provided it's in the 2nd; I'd be hard pressed to take him in the 1st as the lack of bend admittedly dents his ceiling quite a bit).

htismaqe 03-22-2019 01:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 14174556)
But if you choose to pass on talented players because you're pot committed to a prior guy (rather than willing to consider the possibility that he's a sunk cost), then you're Scott Pioli and that's not really a recipe for success either.

I think you can squint and see the same style of player in Omenihu as you have in Speaks, I simply think Omenihu is far more likely to prove worthy of the pick (provided it's in the 2nd; I'd be hard pressed to take him in the 1st as the lack of bend admittedly dents his ceiling quite a bit).
Given that Veach not only took Speaks in the 2nd round but traded up to get him, he probably thinks A LOT more highly of him than any of us do. Meaning, he doesn't seen him as a sunk cost, at least not yet.

Chris Meck 03-22-2019 02:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 14174534)
But when you spend multiple high picks on the same position, at some point, you have high picks sitting on the bench. That's really not a recipe for success. Your 1st and 2nd rounders need to be starters, not depth.
I think you're a little stuck on the idea that one DE spot is drastically different from the other in Spags' 4-3. It's not really.

just like everyone touting these less than 250 lb. 'edge' guys. That's not gonna work.

the idea is, I believe, beef up front, with some pass rush ability that will be further schemed into stunts, crosses, and blitzing for pressure.

An Omenihu type at RDE is great in this scheme. Doesn't matter if Speaks is similar, or Okafor, or if Kpass is physically similar. They're going to move them around, they're going to rotate them in and out. It's not about 'speed rush' it's about Stopping the run first and then generating pressure with solid rushers and scheme.

DJ's left nut 03-22-2019 02:14 PM
Yeah, that's where I am as well. They're just not looking for a Bruce Irving type. What I expected them to be after at DE simply isn't what they appear to actually be looking for.

Omenihu fits their actions.

Chris Meck 03-22-2019 02:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 14174597)
Yeah, that's where I am as well. They're just not looking for a Bruce Irving type. What I expected them to be after at DE simply isn't what they appear to actually be looking for.

Omenihu fits their actions.
any sub 250 lb. guy is going to be a situational pass rusher, and will not be priority.

260 plus at DE.

htismaqe 03-22-2019 04:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Meck (Post 14174582)
I think you're a little stuck on the idea that one DE spot is drastically different from the other in Spags' 4-3. It's not really.

just like everyone touting these less than 250 lb. 'edge' guys. That's not gonna work.

the idea is, I believe, beef up front, with some pass rush ability that will be further schemed into stunts, crosses, and blitzing for pressure.

An Omenihu type at RDE is great in this scheme. Doesn't matter if Speaks is similar, or Okafor, or if Kpass is physically similar. They're going to move them around, they're going to rotate them in and out. It's not about 'speed rush' it's about Stopping the run first and then generating pressure with solid rushers and scheme.
If that's the case, then they're much less redundant. I guess it all depends on how he runs his scheme because in a lot of 4-3 under looks, you're not going to have mirror images at LDE and RDE.

That being said, letting Ford go makes a lot of sense if they want Speaks/Okafor/Omenihu guys at BOTH DE spots, so you're probably 100% correct in what you've said.

Chris Meck 03-22-2019 05:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 14174840)
If that's the case, then they're much less redundant. I guess it all depends on how he runs his scheme because in a lot of 4-3 under looks, you're not going to have mirror images at LDE and RDE.

That being said, letting Ford go makes a lot of sense if they want Speaks/Okafor/Omenihu guys at BOTH DE spots, so you're probably 100% correct in what you've said.
it's also why Rapp would make a lot of sense.

The idea is that many guys that can do many things; so as an offense you can't just plan to run at Dee Ford all day.

For example.

Two safeties that can play deep or box on any given play. Three LB'ers, two of which can play any of the positions.

DE's that are somewhat interchangeable and you can rotate to keep fresh all game.

The Franchise 03-23-2019 02:02 PM
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Chiefs?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Chiefs</a> had dinner with Omenihu in Mobile. He&#39;s an ideal fit in their new 4-3 scheme <a href="https://t.co/cNpIbgx6sQ">https://t.co/cNpIbgx6sQ</a></p>&mdash; Matt Verderame (@MattVerderame) <a href="https://twitter.com/MattVerderame/status/1109479937319284736?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 23, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Tribal Warfare 03-23-2019 02:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Franchise (Post 14176029)
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Chiefs?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Chiefs</a> had dinner with Omenihu in Mobile. He&#39;s an ideal fit in their new 4-3 scheme <a href="https://t.co/cNpIbgx6sQ">https://t.co/cNpIbgx6sQ</a></p>&mdash; Matt Verderame (@MattVerderame) <a href="https://twitter.com/MattVerderame/status/1109479937319284736?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 23, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Guys are going to freak out because if all the top Passrushers are gone, because Veach will trade up for another draft mancrush

Chris Meck 03-23-2019 02:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tribal Warfare (Post 14176056)
Guys are going to freak out because if all the top Passrushers are gone, because Veach will trade up for another draft mancrush
mancrush? like as in...what's not to like? 6'6", 275 lbs. Big 12 D-lineman of the year. 9.5 sacks. Excellent run defender. Aggressive, high motor guy. Relentless.

He's got the measurables, he's got the production. AND I don't think you'll have to trade up for him.

In this draft, I think Ferrell is better; but I think Omenihu or Allen are just behind him. Ferguson just a bit behind that-his agility measurables bother me but he's basically a Tamba Hali-type.

You guys crack me up. It's the armchair GM's that develop mancrushes and then trash other players because it's 'NOT MY GUY'.

Tribal Warfare 03-23-2019 03:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Meck (Post 14176079)
mancrush? like as in...what's not to like? 6'6", 275 lbs. Big 12 D-lineman of the year. 9.5 sacks. Excellent run defender. Aggressive, high motor guy. Relentless.

He's got the measurables, he's got the production. AND I don't think you'll have to trade up for him.

In this draft, I think Ferrell is better; but I think Omenihu or Allen are just behind him. Ferguson just a bit behind that-his agility measurables bother me but he's basically a Tamba Hali-type.

You guys crack me up. It's the armchair GM's that develop mancrushes and then trash other players because it's 'NOT MY GUY'.
I'm not at that short sighted or reactionary because if they are put in a position to succeed and not nullifying their natural skillset then everything will be cool

Chris Meck 03-23-2019 03:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tribal Warfare (Post 14176082)
I'm not at that short sighted or reactionary because if they are put in a position to succeed and not nullifying their natural skillset then everything will be cool
confusing sentence structure is confusing.

I THINK you're saying you're not being reactionary and if they're put in a position to use their skillset well then all is cool.

If so, I agree.

Chris Meck 03-23-2019 03:18 PM
there's a lot to like about a LOT of these players this year. I didn't know anything about Zach Allen but he kept popping up in my mocks so I went and watched some tape. Now, true, we're talking about highlight reels, but he just abused offensive linemen from big time programs. In the run game and as a pass rusher. I heard him called 'the most complete defensive lineman in college football'.

I like Omenihu a lot as well; and he too played well against good competition. Ferrell I thought was smaller than that because he plays damned quick. I was surprised when I looked up his size, I thought he was more a 3-4 edge type.

so yeah, I bet Ferrell is gone and if Veach has a mancrush and goes up to get somebody that'd be him. I could live with that. But I think Omenihu or Allen fall to you and maybe as far as 2nd round.

ntexascardfan 03-23-2019 04:03 PM
From what I've seen Omenihu is probably anywhere from the mid 40s to the end of the second.

Depending on what we do in FA over the next month I think I'm a fan of either a WR or a Safety in the first.

kccrow 03-23-2019 04:29 PM
I dunno. I just don't see a guy that can get NFL sacks. I just rewatched Baylor and Maryland. Baylor controlled the shit out of him and he had a sack on a second effort really late in the play he just won't get in the NFL. Maryland's right tackle, Damien Prince, absolutely destroyed him 1 on 1 that entire game. Prince is an NFL caliber RT and he basically had zero issues with Omenihu. Omenihu doesn't look like he has much of a plan if his bull rush gets stymied and he just doesn't have the athleticism to beat even an average looking RT prospect to the corner. I'm okay if Veach wants to sit there and take the kid in round 2, but that's really pushing it for me. Round 1 I'd absolutely lose my shit.

Chris Meck 03-23-2019 04:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kccrow (Post 14176190)
I dunno. I just don't see a guy that can get NFL sacks. I just rewatched Baylor and Maryland. Baylor controlled the shit out of him and he had a sack on a second effort really late in the play he just won't get in the NFL. Maryland's right tackle, Damien Prince, absolutely destroyed him 1 on 1 that entire game. Prince is an NFL caliber RT and he basically had zero issues with Omenihu. Omenihu doesn't look like he has much of a plan if his bull rush gets stymied and he just doesn't have the athleticism to beat even an average looking RT prospect to the corner. I'm okay if Veach wants to sit there and take the kid in round 2, but that's really pushing it for me. Round 1 I'd absolutely lose my shit.
Well, several scouts say he has the best handwork in the draft. And as for Prince shutting him out, well, I mean everyone says Fisher sucks, and he's had a few games where he made Joey Bosa invisible. So, I mean, whatever. It happens to everyone. His overall production is pretty good.

I'm not specifically hung up on him, there are a couple of guys I like a lot in that range.

But I doubt we're going to get a 245 lb. pass rush specialist. Unless it's late in the draft or a dumpster find FA like Ray.

ntexascardfan 03-23-2019 04:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kccrow (Post 14176190)
I dunno. I just don't see a guy that can get NFL sacks. I just rewatched Baylor and Maryland. Baylor controlled the shit out of him and he had a sack on a second effort really late in the play he just won't get in the NFL. Maryland's right tackle, Damien Prince, absolutely destroyed him 1 on 1 that entire game. Prince is an NFL caliber RT and he basically had zero issues with Omenihu. Omenihu doesn't look like he has much of a plan if his bull rush gets stymied and he just doesn't have the athleticism to beat even an average looking RT prospect to the corner. I'm okay if Veach wants to sit there and take the kid in round 2, but that's really pushing it for me. Round 1 I'd absolutely lose my shit.
Where did Omenihu play in those games? The dude hardly had a 1-1 matchup as Texas bases out of a 3-4 under, so it's a bit bewildering that you're trying to use that as a benchmark. Texas bases out of a 3-4 under. He was largely in a 3 technique and was a good part of the reason LB Gary Johnson had so much success getting into the backfield last season.

Also, you're literally the only person I've read who doesn't appreciate his hands and pass rush moves.

I feel this is a case of you making up your mind about something and watching film to validate your feelings.

There's a reason why Omenihu shined out at the Senior Bowl when he got to play a DE in a 4 man front.

Chris Meck 03-23-2019 04:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ntexascardfan (Post 14176224)
Where did Omenihu play in those games? The dude hardly had a 1-1 matchup as Texas bases out of a 3-4 under, so it's a bit bewildering that you're trying to use that as a benchmark. Texas bases out of a 3-4 under. He was largely in a 3 technique and was a good part of the reason LB Gary Johnson had so much success getting into the backfield last season.

Also, you're literally the only person I've read who doesn't appreciate his hands and pass rush moves.

I feel this is a case of you making up your mind about something and watching film to validate your feelings.

There's a reason why Omenihu shined out at the Senior Bowl when he got to play a DE in a 4 man front.

hey, you know where he'd get a ton of 1 on 1's? Playing next to Chris Jones.

Tribal Warfare 03-23-2019 05:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ntexascardfan (Post 14176224)

There's a reason why Omenihu shined out at the Senior Bowl when he got to play a DE in a 4 man front.
Remember this detail, because starting with Eric Fisher KC has gone after Senior Bowl standouts frequently.

Mother****erJones 03-23-2019 05:33 PM
I still feel Omenihu is more the strong side fit than Leo. I know Speaks is going to start there but he can help out there and all over the DL. Just didn’t see the bend I’d like to see in a Leo. That’s why I like Burns or Ferrell. Ferrell is probably more Spags fit in terms of what he’ll want but Burns is a top 5 edge man. Love the dude and his natural ability to bend the corner for a 6’5 edge

kccrow 03-23-2019 05:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ntexascardfan (Post 14176224)
Where did Omenihu play in those games? The dude hardly had a 1-1 matchup as Texas bases out of a 3-4 under, so it's a bit bewildering that you're trying to use that as a benchmark. Texas bases out of a 3-4 under. He was largely in a 3 technique and was a good part of the reason LB Gary Johnson had so much success getting into the backfield last season.

Also, you're literally the only person I've read who doesn't appreciate his hands and pass rush moves.

I feel this is a case of you making up your mind about something and watching film to validate your feelings.

There's a reason why Omenihu shined out at the Senior Bowl when he got to play a DE in a 4 man front.
Dude, seriously take off your Texas and Big 12 homer glasses for a minute and go watch those games. He was thoroughly dominated. He played primarily at DE against Maryland as a 3 and 5. He absolutely got his shit kicked in. If I were going off that tape alone, he wouldn't be on my draft board. It was literally that bad. They tried to move him around, especially down on the nose and to the opposite side. He was more effective with pressure but not by much.

kccrow 03-23-2019 05:40 PM
When you lay an unathletic turd of a game down, in fact two of those such turds out of 2, then you're an unathletic turd. Doesn't matter where you line the **** up. His combine results match his unathletic self. He's a very average 4-3 base end. He isn't going to line up wide and bend the corner.

ntexascardfan 03-23-2019 06:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kccrow (Post 14176296)
Dude, seriously take off your Texas and Big 12 homer glasses for a minute and go watch those games. He was thoroughly dominated. He played primarily at DE against Maryland as a 3 and 5. He absolutely got his shit kicked in. If I were going off that tape alone, he wouldn't be on my draft board. It was literally that bad. They tried to move him around, especially down on the nose and to the opposite side. He was more effective with pressure but not by much.
I've done a pretty good job of taking off the homer glasses. My feelings regarding him have been pretty consistent with the experts...a mid second to mid third round grade.

However, to be clear, I'm not the one in this thread going against the grain of every scout and expert in the industry by saying he has poor pass rush moves and hands (the latter of which is absolutely absurd).

I'm also not the dude saying that Austin Bryant (who most have as a third day pick) is a better prospect.

There's a reason why he is a pretty consensus mid second to mid third grade. Because he's a solid prospect. For KC, given the recent signing of a similar player in Okafor, it signals he'd probably be someone on our board and would be a good fit in our scheme.

It's not a surprise that the teams most associated with him are Seattle, Indianapolis, and KC.

kccrow 03-23-2019 08:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ntexascardfan (Post 14176318)
I've done a pretty good job of taking off the homer glasses. My feelings regarding him have been pretty consistent with the experts...a mid second to mid third round grade.

However, to be clear, I'm not the one in this thread going against the grain of every scout and expert in the industry by saying he has poor pass rush moves and hands (the latter of which is absolutely absurd).

I'm also not the dude saying that Austin Bryant (who most have as a third day pick) is a better prospect.

There's a reason why he is a pretty consensus mid second to mid third grade. Because he's a solid prospect. For KC, given the recent signing of a similar player in Okafor, it signals he'd probably be someone on our board and would be a good fit in our scheme.

It's not a surprise that the teams most associated with him are Seattle, Indianapolis, and KC.
Where do I talk about his hands? I talked about him not having any athleticism, can't bend the corner, and is lost when his bull rush is taken away. And he is. You can use whatever armchair expert analysis you want for that.

ntexascardfan 03-24-2019 12:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kccrow (Post 14176481)
Where do I talk about his hands? I talked about him not having any athleticism, can't bend the corner, and is lost when his bull rush is taken away. And he is. You can use whatever armchair expert analysis you want for that.
When you mention he is lost when his "bull rush" is taken away you are essentially saying the guy lacks hands and a pass rush.

The fact of the matter, if you've watched his film, is that the bull rush is not his primary tool in his pass rush. His go to move as a pass rusher concept is speed to power, where he is using his initial quickness off the snap to beat his man to space and then leveraging his strength to out leverage his blocker.

He was solid in this execution at Texas, especially his senior season largely as a 3 tech, as a SDE, in a 3-4 front. His burst is on par with Alex Okafor, who is a big bodied guy, who played as an SDE in college before graduating to the pros.

From that he works to a stab/club where he engages with his arms then uses his length to club down on the lineman's arms to break their engagement.

His bullrush is a tertiary rushing move of his and is not his predominant way of working to the back field.

The fact that you think the bull rush is his predominant move is an indictment of your ability to analyze and identify what a lineman is doing at the point of attack and the tactics he is utilizing to disrupt the backfield.

I don't know your experience playing or teaching the game, but any deficiency you have in understanding role/usage/execution has really been underscored throughout your evaluation here.

kccrow 03-24-2019 12:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ntexascardfan (Post 14176762)
When you mention he is lost when his "bull rush" is taken away you are essentially saying the guy lacks hands and a pass rush.

The fact of the matter, if you've watched his film, is that the bull rush is not his primary tool in his pass rush. His go to move as a pass rusher concept is speed to power, where he is using his initial quickness off the snap to beat his man to space and then leveraging his strength to out leverage his blocker.

He was solid in this execution at Texas, especially for the role he was utilized in as a 3 tech, as a SDE, in a 3-4 front. His burst is on par with Alex Okafor, who is a big bodied guy, who played as an SDE in college before graduating to the pros.

From that he works to a stab/club where he engages with his arms then uses his length to club down on the lineman's arms to break their engagement.

His bullrush is a tertiary rushing move of his and is not his predominant way of working to the back field.

The fact that you think the bull rush is his predominant move is an indictment of your ability to analyze and identify what a lineman is doing at the point of attack.

I don't know your experience playing or teaching the game, but any deficiency you have in understanding role/usage/execution has really been underscored throughout your evaluation here.

If you want a class in what Omenihu can do go watch the Sugar Bowl. If you don't consider his performance against one of the best O-lines and backfields in college football to be worthwhile, then you have no business telling anyone what a good defensive end looks like.
ROFL

NIUhuskies 03-30-2019 07:12 AM
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/M4Gxtc5DZVE" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

this guy does a film study analysis and isnt a fan...devils advocate opinion here

In58men 03-30-2019 07:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Meck (Post 14176079)
mancrush? like as in...what's not to like? 6'6", 275 lbs. Big 12 D-lineman of the year. 9.5 sacks. Excellent run defender. Aggressive, high motor guy. Relentless.

He's got the measurables, he's got the production. AND I don't think you'll have to trade up for him.

In this draft, I think Ferrell is better; but I think Omenihu or Allen are just behind him. Ferguson just a bit behind that-his agility measurables bother me but he's basically a Tamba Hali-type.

You guys crack me up. It's the armchair GM's that develop mancrushes and then trash other players because it's 'NOT MY GUY'.
Spot on!!!

Give me Omenihu all day long.

kccrow 03-30-2019 04:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NIUhuskies (Post 14187044)
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/M4Gxtc5DZVE" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

this guy does a film study analysis and isnt a fan...devils advocate opinion here
I say this shit and I suddenly never played the game. This guy is extremely overrated here. I mean, by 3 rounds overrated. He's maybe worth a project day 3 to maybe compete with Speaks at LDE but I just don't see enough athleticism from this guy. He's probably better throwing on weight and being a run stopping DT in the NFL.

Chief Northman 03-31-2019 11:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kccrow (Post 14187700)
I say this shit and I suddenly never played the game. This guy is extremely overrated here. I mean, by 3 rounds overrated. He's maybe worth a project day 3 to maybe compete with Speaks at LDE but I just don't see enough athleticism from this guy. He's probably better throwing on weight and being a run stopping DT in the NFL.
But he has long arms!

CoMoChief 03-31-2019 08:34 PM
He's better than Breeland Speaks.

Everyone is better than Breeland Speaks.


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