Justin Houston’s last year in KC?
 

I’m not an expert on these contracts, but could it be Houston’s last year here? His production has been awful and with two games this year with big leads and lots of down the field pass attempts by opposing QBs, Houston has no sacks. I think he has less sacks in the last 50 or so games than he did in the year before his contract, the big year with 22 sacks. His cap hit will decline dramatically next year. He might be gone. As a general rule, I think the chiefs should limit these large 2nd contracts. The motivation just isn’t there. The raiders were right to trade Khalil Mack. Here’s the info on Houston’s contract. Let’s hope Houston turns it around. We need him for a playoff run but if he doesn’t increase production, I think he’s gone.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/kansas-c...-houston-7789/

another stupid opinion on Houston lol

LOL, no.

Stupid? He's made some points. Maybe he's still here next year, but its not foolish to be looking down the road sooner rather than later with Houston. The production isnt there to justify the contract. Unless that changes, he's not gonna stick around for its duration... :shrug:

http://www.nfl.com/player/justinhous...93/careerstats

2018 0
2017 9.5
2016 4
2015 7.5

I wouldn’t pay $15,000,000 for that kind of production with a $21,000,000 cap hit. And he’s not getting any younger. Father Time is working against him as well. Our defense needs his pass rush desperately. I hope he delivers but he’s sucked thus far this year.

They will undoubtedly restructure. This offseason is the perfect time to do it. It's a win for both the Chiefs and Houston. Houston would rather get paid less for a protected contract.

Houston absolutely should be gone unless he agrees to a significant pay cut.

But I also wouldn't avoid these contracts. Mack and Confirm Miller have actually performed well relative to their contracts. We just happen to have two examples of players who signed big contracts and broke down soon after, but it doesn't always happen that way.

Restructure just means moving around money to future years to save money in the current year. I assume you mean renegotiate a reduced contract?

There's more to football than sacks and Justin Houston does everything well. Trading him is lunacy.

Given the state of our pass rushers, you pretty much have to pick your poison between re-signing Dee Ford and paying Justin Houston. We can't let them both go in one year.

Houston doesn’t have the same explosiveness. His quickness, strength and power are all dramatically less than he was and he isn’t getting any younger. He’s a very smart player and that helped him. Why continue to invest in a player who’s skills are likely going to continue to decline? He needs to produce this year or take a huge pay cut or be gone.

And honestly, I'm preparing thy anus for the Chiefs to re-sign Ford at 10-12 per.

Sacks is why he gets $20 million a year. Nobody in the NFL gets paid $20 million a year if they're not a pass rusher.

That's what people said about Terrell Suggs too, but the Ravens re-signed him and he kept getting 10 sacks a year and playing great run defense.

You don’t pay Houston for doing everything well. You pay elite pass rushers $15m.

I'd be in favor of franchising Ford for a year and making him prove it for one more season before we invest in him long term. I'd also use one of our top 3 picks next year on a pass rusher, and more specifically not a project in the mold of Kpass or Speaks (both of whom I pray are not wasted picks).

Suggs has made about $4 m per year for the last 4 years. I’d agree to that for Houston.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/baltimor...ll-suggs-1125/

Houston hasn't had double digit sacks since 2014, so not a great comparison. His performance is reasonable at roughly half his current salary. It's inexcusable for what he is making. We can't build a team with what we are paying to Houston and Berry considering the complete lack of return we are receiving on the investment.

Yup

man Chiefs fans love hanging onto to their fan favorites of yesteryear a year or two late.

The same people who rip Smiff for 5 years are the fist to sniff Houstons jock.


Houston has sucked since his deal. Just admit it. Quit blanking Sutton or his knee or whatever, fact remains: had we known he'd turn into this, no WAY does he get that mega deal

People are idiotic when it comes to sacks though. In his comeback year last year he had 9.5 which still put him in the top 20.

Last year:

Von Miller - 57 tackles 10.0 sacks
Justin Houston - 59 tackles 9.5 sacks

Would you all scream the Broncos should cut Miller and he isn't worth 20 million?

No, no you wouldn't.

It's been 2 games and because he doesn't have a sack everyone is up in arms? Sorry if I'm not worried about the best player on this defense.

I agree with the op here. He's not the same guy. Yes he is smart and can set the edge well still but he's not elite like he used to be. Pay cut or move on.

I'm not talking about the last 4 years. I'm talking about the contract before that when he came back from injury.

He’ll be gone I’m guessing, and we’ll be stuck with Ford

He would have to take a paycut to stay, and Ford is the complete opposite type of player that Veach has basically said he likes.

Ding! Ding! Ding!

Yes it is early and he may turn it around. But so far the best players on defense have been Ford, Jones, and Hitchens. Without looking at their contracts I can say they probably make a similar amount or less combined than what Houston is making.

Houston just doesn't pass the eye test anymore. He gets stood up by average tackles and doesn't make plays. He should be singlehandedly wrecking offenses at his current pay, but he doesn't.

His money needs to be used on keeping Hill, Jones, Fuller, etc. If we're going to take advantage of Mahomes' contract before he breaks the bank we can't afford to be paying so much for such little production.

There's still a lot of football left, but Houston needs to show that he can be at least a 10 sack guy. He needs to be a 13-17 sack guy to be worth his contract.

He's still strong at the point of attack.

He still commands double teams at times.

He's still a heady player that's stout in run defense.

But some of that power and explosion is gone, and he was never a speed guy to begin with. That contract he received was for sacking Qb's and affecting outcomes of games, not just being a stout run defender.

So sacking QB's is what he needs to do to be worth that money. So unless something changes soon with his production, the Chiefs will be forced to seriously consider eating some dead money.

They will have to decide whether to let Ford walk and keep paying Houston that big contract, or give Ford a 15M (ish) contract and letting Houston go.

Speaks and Kpass exist on the this roster because it's time for one, or both of those guys to go.

You rush the passer much more effectively when you are playing with a lead. The Chiefs did that a lot more than the Broncos last year. I don't think it's a great comparison just like I didn't think it was a good comparison early on when Von was getting all his opportunities. Truth is, I think Houston used to be better than Von. That is no longer the case and hasn't been for a while. The money is better used elsewhere.

That was also a down year for Von Miller.

I expect a 10 sack season out of Houston. That's completely reasonable for a starting OLB. Especially one with getting paid that kind of coin.

But a 10 sack season is nothing special. A 15 sack season? Now we're talking.

What's inexcusable is judging Houston for an uncontrollable injury, surgery, and recovery. He was out 1 full year, as should be expected when the surgery got botched.

So, in 2015 (the year Houston was injured) he played 11 games with 7.5 sacks. In 2016 he played 5 games and had 4.0 sacks. Of course he didn't put up "double-digit" sacks because he missed a significant amount of time across 2015-16 because of the injury. You know what he did do? Put up 11.5 sacks in the 16 games he did play.

He had 9.5 last year, which is still really good. Even the best defenders in history didn't put up 10+ every year. Derrick Thomas had less than 10 sacks 4 times in his career. Lawrence Taylor 5 times. Et cetera.

Give the guy this season and let's see what happens. If he doesn't produce sacks again then I'd be willing to have the discussion, but as of right now I'm giving Houston the benefit of the doubt.

I'm fine with that. I'm also predicting he doesn't get double digit sacks this year. I hope I'm wrong.

Plus 1

9.5 Is what a competent starting OLB should get in a 34.

It would've been good enough for 20th in the league last season. The 30th ranked OLB got 8 sacks. 8-10 is competent. Nothing special at all.

I expect that he'll probably get that this season too. Which is ok. It's not bad. But it sure as **** isn't $20+Mill good.

To a large extent yes. But I doubt Houston would allow that. You'd have to extend the contract with the current contract in mind. I would guess we'd want to extend the years. Basically take his current contract and convert into bonus. For example... You could basically buy out his current contract for a $30m signing bonus over 5 years then pay significantly less base salary. The goal is to take his current expensive contract and spread it out over a longer time. Win win.

He's basically the whipping boy for the defense, the talk radio dudes are railing him for basically being a scrub so this will go on and on.

I see guys all the time try to compare Houston's season to Von Miller's last season, even though that was a down year for Von.

Pssst.....guess who's on top of the sack leader board in 2018?

I'll give you a hint, he has a REALLY big contract but his name isn't Justin Houston.

Oh is that what's happening on KC radio these days? I see.

Chiefs have a lot of leverage. Houstons hitting the point in the contract where the Chiefs can basically tell Houston to accept the new terms, or be cut. I think Houston wants to stay and he's definitely looking for long term contract security, not making a quick buck.

He may not. I haven't seen the "unleash the hounds" defense that we heard about all offseason. Still a lot of playing it safe type of stuff. Houston was at his best when we had Hali also applying pressure and setting the edge opposite him and a defensive line that didn't get their shit pushed in. Jaye Howard and Dontari Poe were infinitely better than what's been there the past couple seasons.

There's no one on this defense that is indispensable. Not one.

I think Houston needs to have a 10 sack season to stay on the team and i think that's exactly what he'll have.

They can’t even begin to consider releasing Houston until Speaks or KPass show that they’re actually good players.

Yea phrases like

"I take the time to just watch him on plays and he doesn't do anything, he runs into the OT and just stands there, he's a bum"

The narrative that he blows is being pushed really hard. Like yesterday Bob Sutton said he played a fine game and when they went back to the guys the first line was "a lot of disinformation out there at 1 arrowhead drive apparently"

Ford and Jones are actually getting pressure though, so it's not like Houston has been going at it alone.

I honestly hope Houston blows up this weekend for 3 sacks and makes me eat crow.

Which host is this? Bob Fescoe or KK are my guesses.

If you do cut Houston and let Ford go, or really just let Ford go this team is probably going to be in the market for a pass rusher who may come on the cheap..

Dante Fowler and Shane Ray are probably going to be options for this team in FA...

Sucks that Houston doesn't get to face the shittiest line in football until December. :D

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Lol @ the people still defending Houston. It's obvious he's either lost motivation or offensive lineman have figured out how to block him. And stop with the Von Miller comparisons. Miller currently leads the NFL in sacks with 4 and last year he was doubled more than anyone.

J Houston is nothing but a good run defender and okay pass rusher now. Unless his play dramatically improves the rest of the season (which it more than likely won't) he needs to go.

Fescoes show was the first line...the disinformation from Bob Sutton was Carringtons show, 610 is very heavily pushing that Houston is a turd.

It's a long season. Wait and see. First two games have been extremely underwhelming. With Ford and Jones generating pressure Houston should find his way to the QB more often than he has. The few times I tried to focus on him, he didn't look like he had much of a dip and speed anymore.

I'm all for signing Fowler no matter what. He's a solid situational pass rusher and he's still only 24.

If this team roles with Speaks and Kpass you'll pine to have him back because those guys are way worse...

Sure they can. If Ford has a good season they can franchise him. Cutting Houston saves $14 million against the cap that can be used on a pass rusher or elsewhere. They should look at drafting one as well in the 1st or 2nd round. It's not like Houston is providing this huge performance on a weekly basis that can't be replaced. We're the worst defense in the league.

The sack totals were similar. Houston gets doubled and chipped a shit ton too. Justin Houston got hog-tied by the Steelers while Miller played the Seahags. Let's see how it all plays out. We're 2 games into the season for ****s sake.

I think we can convince Shane Ray to come here on a reasonable contract, seeing as he's from here and has a Chiefs tattoo.

Dude..

Dee Ford is a 1 dimensional player that gets hurt all the time, why the **** would you want to tag him?

That is a possible option but lets be real, that is a reclamation project that you are hoping to turn into production for cheap it's not like he's been good so far.

He's basically Dee Ford, he's a broke dick without a ton of production but you probably get him cheaper.

In other words a "Veach-Type of Player."

To see if he can stay healthy. He's still our best pass rusher so far. If he can approach double digit sacks in 2018 and 2019 I'd offer him a long term contract.

Exactly. NO WAY I'd want THAT guy to be tying up significant cap $$$ that could be used elsewhere for improvements.

More local yokels demanding anothe Mizzou trash signing. As if we have learned the lesson 80 times already

Ray by analytics ratings is virtually worthless. He wouldn't even be a poor mans Ford

Like it or not, this team is going to have to spend FA money and at least 1 draft pick on OLB yet again.

He'll get signed for virtually nothing, teams take former first round picks and see if they can make something of them all the time...matter of fact we have 2 of those guys starting on this ****ing team...that's right up Veach's alley.

I get that, but then you're open to him being a virtual "no-show" for the duration of the contract. Long term deals are a risk with any player, but he more than most, because that's his history. I sure would not be willing to take that chance, but that's just my opinion.

I doubt I'd ever be ok with paying Dee Ford, he just doesn't do enough to warrant taking up a bunch of money, we'll end up in another spot where a guy who is paid never plays.

I'd rather that "alley" be Fowler than Ray.

He's an exceptional run and pass defender. I don't for a second question his heart. He's not the elite pass rusher he once was. But he's still good at it. I think his lower production has a lot more to do with Sutton not finding creative ways enough to create pressure. Seems like we have fewer rushers asked to do more.

I understand that, Fowler will likely get more money though.

I only threw them out there because really great pass rushers don't get to FA and they'll make it because they've been disappointing. Not sure who else will make it out there...

Team also needs to make a play for a competent CB and probably a DE so this will be a fun year of trying to find some productive dudes who aren't asking for shit tons of money.

If Ford played like he has so far for a full 16 games, I’d probably franchise him. Depending on KPass and Speaks’ development.

No long term deal, but I’d keep him on a deal that will continue to motivate him, then let him go.

Houston has not been as bad as people are claiming. Same with Chris Jones.

Ideally I would like it if we could restructure Houston’s deal without pushing money back (convert money to guaranteed in 2019 to lower cap hit), use that money saved tofranchise Dee Ford and draft a pass rusher in the first rd. 2019 draft is stacked with excellent pass rushers.

I want to keep as many good rushers as possible

Kpass needs to start getting more playing time.

Well I highly doubt KPass or Speaks is gonna show much seeing as Kpass gets less snaps than Speaks and Speaks looks like a fat guy who has no burst.

LMAO defense is 4 of our top 6 cap hits. What a joke.

Justin Houston OLB $20,600,000 11.46
Eric Fisher LT $13,950,000 7.76
Eric Berry SS $13,000,000 7.23
Travis Kelce TE $9,955,900 5.54
Dee Ford OLB $8,718,000 4.85
Allen Bailey DE $7,968,750 4.43

This is my thought as well. If we could stash 6-8 guys who can do a good job, we can rotate them with big leads.

Yep. And I too labeled him a "Veach Guy" earlier in this thread... Man, I so get the whole "Low Risk - High Reward" signing, ALL GM's like those deals. The issue I have though is if you count on too many to fill positions of great need, then they become HIGH RISKS to fill all of the said needs.

Spooky ghoul

Wonder if the cardinals would trade nkemdiche?