Chiefs "not expected" to tag Poe
 

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Chiefs have officially indicated to DL Dontari Poe he will not be tagged. He&#39;s hitting the open market</p>&mdash; Jason La Canfora (@JasonLaCanfora) <a href="https://twitter.com/JasonLaCanfora/status/837029859826229248">March 1, 2017</a></blockquote>
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Good.

I'm pleased. We could do a whole hell of a lot worse than Jones-Howard-Bailey.

Use the money on a Zach Brown.

Anyone got a guess on what our cap room is like now?

Somewhere around $10-11 million, I believe.

This guy seems to think we have $6.3M

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB...c.php?t=583957

Thanks bud. You're a good poster and very worthy of many quotes.

Honestly...who the **** knows.

And Nacho-Roches

So Overthecap.com has our cap space at $9.5 but that doesn't include Berry. So if you figure his first year cap hit at $5M.....then we're roughly at $4.5 million in cap room left.

Foles off of that yet?

No. I posted in the salary cap thread that if you take him off....it puts us at roughly $15 million before Berry.

Yeah I just saw that.

Is the thread starter Knowmo? Seems the only other Donk that always wanted to scoop news on a rival bb. I feel dirty just being in this thread. Also, I think the mods should change his handle back to Donk trash.

4.5 hours left to do the tag if they want it

Nobody has the rookie allocation figured in yet.

I see about $9 million in available cap after releasing Charles and dumping Foles if you consider Berry at $5 million.

The rookie allocation would likely be somewhere in the $7.5 million range by the time all is said and done. It could move quite a bit if the Chiefs trade up or down.

Realistically the Chiefs are pretty much at the cap. Now some of those draft picks will displace guys, but many of those are past the 'top 51' that's factored into the cap cutoff anyway so it wouldn't help the cap. But if they drafted, for instance, an OT that makes Reid expendable (likely), that's another $1.5 million or so that they'd save.

Unless they restructure Houston, they'd be hard pressed to make any significant moves. And God help us if they restructure Smith.

It seems like Dorsey is making some tough but smart business decisions right now.

We need a really good draft and a couple of smart FA signings to wrap this up.

Oh yeah, and a new Quarterback.

I'd be fine with restructuring Houston but I also think that Reid needs to be gone as well as doing something with Colquitt.

Colquitt needs to be gone as well but with Toub likely having one last shot at getting a head coaching gig before he's seen as too old/stale, I'd be surprised if Reid does that to him.

Reid will keep Colquitt around at Toub's behest because a rookie punter could make Toub look pretty bad, pretty fast. Colquitt's not worth his money because people still overvalue him 'round here, but he's a steady guy that Toub can count on and build a unit around. Put a rookie in there and there's weird shit that can/will happen which would make him look worse in his last 'head coach drive'.

If he doesn't get Pagano's job next season, I expect Toub's a special team's lifer. At that point, the Chiefs move on from Colquitt and tell Toub to make it work.

Judging by our cap situation and the players we have locked up, this wouldn't surprise me. If Dorsey doesn't find his QBOTF in this draft that leaves it up to an early round pick in 2018 which I have a hard time believing he will want to start that player from the get-go. Smith will be 34 if we pick up his last season which is by no means 'old' in this NFL.

Have to address that position seriously. Can't go into another season without a QB.

2017 is pointless with Smith.

If healthy there's not many nose tackles better than Poe.

Couldn't agree with you more. He's making some tough decisions, but that's what he gets the big bucks for. It will be better for Poe's career especially if he goes to a 4-3 team.

Denver sucks ass.

That's Spott on.

You need to come to terms with the fact that Alex Smith is on borrowed time.

He won't be restructured and he won't be here in 2019. At most, he has 2 more years and even that seems like less than a 50/50 proposition.

Shout into the wind all you want, but extensions for Berry and LDT are the writing on the wall. This team's already using Smith's 2019 salary and very likely his 2018 as well.

The fog is lifting.

He's a 350 lb man with back issues.

He'll never be 'healthy' as you're describing it again. His best at this point will be 90% of what his best used to be. And in a league where the line between success and failure is as razor thin as the NFLs, that 10% decrease is huge.

He was 'healthy' by NFL terms last year and he simply wasn't an impact player. That's not worth $13 million. 2014 Dontari is gone and he ain't ever comin' back.

His best fit now is in a 4-3. He can at least hope not to be double teamed all the time next to another massive DT. I think someone is going to sign him to a large contract and he won't play up to it.

I agree with you on both posts, DJ. Smith will not be here in 2018 and Poe, as much as I like him, is not worth the money for either tag.

Next year there is going to be a major gutting of contracts on this team. Smith, Hali and DJ for sure.

So you think Dorsey will draft a QB and start him day 1 if he doesn't get a guy until 2018? With all the talent on this roster...gamble on a rookie?

I'll trust Mayock's opinion on the situation:
"I am bullish on Alex Smith because I read you guys a list of quarterbacks early on, and, you know, there's only eight or ten franchise guys in the league,” Mayock said. “If Alex Smith isn't one of them, he's just kind of a notch below, and that's better than most of the other teams around the league. I could name you half the league that needs a quality starting quarterback. So I believe the Chiefs are ahead of most of the teams. I think you've got to be careful for what you wish for because it may come true.”

A team could look at Gerald McCoy as a blueprint. McCoy's started to decline a bit over the last year or so but the 4-3 has kept him pretty productive as it's kept him from being a constant double.

I agree with you there; Poe, if he's going to be a true impact player, is going to have to be in a 4-3. Then again, it's damn near impossible to be a true impact player as a 3-4 NT anyway. That's what made Poe's 2014 season so incredible. The guy was a monster DESPITE a system that didn't set him up to disrupt.

I just don't think we'll see that again. We'd be better served allocating money elsewhere and finding a 'conventional' 3-4 NT that is more of a space filler. I hate it, but the back injury is what it is. The memory of Dontari Poe is more imposing than the production anymore.

'Less than a 50/50 proposition' is non-zero, son.

'At most, 2 seasons' leaves open the possibility that he's here in 2018.

He will NOT be here in 2019, no. Because if the Chiefs can't get a guy they like in the first this year, I do think they'll do something like grab Peterman or Webb in the 3rd; a guy they might try to develop or might be willing to move on from if they like the 2018 draftee better. And if they don't get a high end guy in 2017 or 2018, they'll run with the mid-round pick in 2019.

Smith's gone in 2 years and very possibly in 1.

The 34 43 stuff isn't a big deal anymore, teams are in sub stuff 70 percent of the time.

I'd rather pay Brandon williams than poe

That's what I was saying, it's likely he will be the starter in 2018 given our situation personnel and money wise. We would have to draft the next Wilson/Prescott this year to consider giving him the boot any earlier

No, we could draft the next Wilson/Prescott next year and still give him the boot in '18.

You don't restructure a guy unless you intend to keep him for at least 2 more years and by doing so, you've effectively taken the ability to get rid of him after 1 off the table.

It would be asinine to do so. Whether or not he's 'likely' to be the starter in 2018 is a matter of conjecture but if you restructure him, he's 'definitely' the starter in 2018 and that's not a decision I'd be willing to make and I'm betting that Reid and Dorsey are in the same boat.

They're not going to restructure Alex Smith unless it's so team friendly that the cap rollover it would create would effectively pay off the dead money they'd increase the following year. That seems extremely unlikely. They're not going to do anything to diminish their ability to walk away from Smith in '18. They're not as myopic as you are.

2 years.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-owPKuK7Z52...00/sad-cat.gif

So when Alex Smith goes to the Browns are you going to be posting over on their forums instead of here?

I just don't see Reid going into a season without a secure backup plan. He held onto Donovan well knowing he would eventually roll with Vick. Cap wise, paying for Smith and QBOTF in 2018 is still cheaper than what 1/3 of teams are paying for QBs who have done less in the wins column.
Plus Smith is a good QB coach, Harbaugh praised his ability to mentor Kaepernick. The extra year of keeping him would pay dividends to the next guy.

I hope they try to re-sign him, but realistically, Poe is going to be overpaid on the open market. I'm glad we aren't going to go on tilt and throw a big contract at a big risk.

Yeah, Dorsey's gonna pay $20+ million in cap for QB coach.

You're reaching. Poorly.

I like Poe more than most on here, but I will trust the Chiefs to do the right thing.

Poe just never took the next step.

Maybe it didn't help that we played him so many snaps but the reality is that he didn't dominate the game in a way that should earn huge money.

I hope you're right DJ. I fully expect all the top QB's to be gone, including Mahommes. I hope Dorsey thinks enough of one of the 2nd tier guys bc that's likely all we're gonna be able to get.

**** that. You take your 1st this year and both of our 3rd round picks and trade up for Mahomes. I'm sick of his waiting around shit.

If Reid wanted him, Dorsey would do just that.

Reid has to want somebody new before Dorsey is going to do anything.

And Reid will have to want him badly, IMO.

Dorsey seems to prefer to just play his board as it lies. If the value falls to him, he'll take it. If he doesn't, he'll retreat, get a pick and see if value falls to him in the next spot.

If Dorsey trades up, it will be because Andy Reid was banging on the table to make it happen. He can't just say "I kinda like Mahomes...", he'll have to say "Mahomes is the guy that's going to win us a championship - period".

Trade two third rounders and a first to move up for an unknown product in a weak QB draft??

A reach? What are you talking about?? Sitting on the bench watching a veteran is the best way for a rookie to learn. Jesus Christ

Ok,I can see that.

My main point is that this is about Reid, not Dorsey.

You want to be pissed about the QB position then be pissed at Reid.

Reid wanted AS
Reid wants to keep AS
Dorsey won't spend big on a new QB until Reid wants him to

No, the best way for a rookie to learn is to play, especially if he's surrounded by solid talent.

And paying a lame-duck $20 million to ensure that doesn't happen isn't going to fly.

By all means....let's continue to start the QB who is already on the decline. I'm sure 15 TDs a season is super hard to replace.

This is a really controversial move, in my opinion.

I think there is an argument to let Poe walk, but he could still provide us another contract's worth of solid play.

He is tough, he is mean, he is very physical, and he plays 80% of the snaps. That's not going to be very easy to replace -- it probably can't be replaced.

Hell it's not Poe's fault we let him and another DT play 2-on-5 against OLs for like 75% of the snaps last year.

And allow the rookie to crumble under the pressure of high expectations? In a Reid offense I would not let a rookie get the keys to the car on day one. That's setting him up for failure

I would have tagged him, obviously.

But I guess this means we like the development of TJ Barnes and Montori Hughes looked promising.

I know Dorsey and Sutton can make this work. But I just think this was the wrong call.

They had to pretty much choose between Berry and Poe.

Which would you have chosen?

I don't agree that they had to make that choice.

They just did.

Gun to my head? Berry. Every time.

But you're putting up a very good NT against an All Planet safety.

Tag for the DT position is 13 million.

I probably would have tagged him and then hoped to trade him.

Even if you only negotiate for a 2nd, still helps.

Smith isn't on the decline at age 32 going on 33. His QBR, pass yards, sack rate, completion % say otherwise. Maclin will bounce back this year and bring up the red zone efficiency like in 2015/16

The bright spot here is that Andy Reid, better than almost anyone else, knows exactly when to cut a player loose.

So I do have faith in him to judge this, and Dorsey to replace him.

But that's a hell of a lift you're asking the front seven to do, to somehow replace Dontari Poe.

Tag-and-trade in the NFL is very, very difficult to do.

I just can't get on board overpaying a nt that headed such a bad run d.

With the insane amount of cap money out there, this is a pretty reasonable position to take.

I'd have to think there's a team that would give up a 3rd for him if for no other reason than to get at/near the cap floor.

I don't think the Chiefs can afford to hang onto him but there are a ton of teams out there that would gladly give $13 million to him on a relatively low-risk 1-yr deal. For teams sitting on $60 million in cap space, who the **** cares about a $13 million cap charge?

Good point.

It was for awhile.

But we've never seen an era this flush with cap money and a demand that teams spend it.

Shit, aren't the Patriots sitting on $60 million? Why the hell wouldn't they give up a late 2nd for Poe?

I just don't think it would be as tough as we think in this environment.

It's not really a tag and trade in the NFL.

Original team can negotiate a trade for a tagged player without actually signing the player to a contract first. The new team assumes the Tag value onto their salary cap and then can sign him to a new contract.

Pretty sure that's how it works.

If we tag and trade, the 13.6 goes on the books this afternoon, yes? I'm not sure where we are cap wise today, but I am assuming that means more cuts to make room for Poe.

I think the linebackers made Poe look bad. If his job is to swallow two lineman and for a linebacker to hit the gap, then it's not really his fault. Even in his prime in 2014, our run D was awful. Maybe it's Sutton's scheme to have patient linebackers to prevent the big plays from happening. Our red zone run defense was one of the best

They would have had to get the trade done before the start of the league year, no? If they didn't already have an interested partner, that could have caused some problems. If they didn't even try though, they were remiss.

A team can spend a fair amount of time over the cap. I don't recall exactly when they have to be under it, but my memory is that it's sometime in June.

They'd have time to make a deal work and if they can't, then there are some emergency measures that could probably sneak him under (cutting Colquitt, Reid, Harris; a Houston re-structure, etc...).

It would be a little risky but the downside would be fairly minimal, IMO.

I'm banging that same drum, but let's be realistic...Dorsey isn't doing that. He values draft picks while Andy still loves Alex.

I'm hoping Mahommes is available around pick 20-22 bc it shouldn't cost that much to make the move. I think Houston is so desperate for a quality QB that they trade up for the kid in the teens. They can't go into next year with Brock, Savage and nothing else.

All 3 of our ghys would start for Denver anyway. Even without Poe. With him....uh oh.

I see. Thanks!

March 9 (After 4:00PM ET)
2017 NFL league year begins, all 2016 contracts expire, free agency and trading opens.
All teams must be and stay under the ‘Top-51’ salary cap for 2017.

Howard can play NT. Why do you not understand this?

Which is why we drafted Chris Jones

Dorsey with another replacement draft pick

Howard to NT
Joes to RDE
Poe gone

Whew!

If it's that early, then it's also before the draft pick allocation has been added, I would suspect, if for no other reason than you can't know exactly what your draft pool will actually be yet.

So that gives you a bit more wiggle room as well.

Deadline has passed; Poe not tagged.

Dorsey has done a GREAT job on the Oline. We not only have depth, but they all got a ton of playing experience this past season.

Perfect timing.

I wonder if Poe is pissed or happy for the opportunity to test free agency. I haven't seen anything from Poe's camp on any of this.