Bob Sutton isn't the problem
 

Hearing a lot of criticism of Sutton. Here's something interesting to consider. Sutton has been here 4 years. He's had 3 stretches where he's had to play some really bad cornerbacks:
-8 games with Marcus Cooper in 2013
-3-4 games in 2015 with Sean Smith out on injury, a rookie Marcus Peters, and Jamel Fleming getting picked on
-1 game this year with DJ White

Other than those 12-13 games, you know how many times Sutton gave up more than 20 points? 3 times. That means for 2/3 of the games, we've had a good to phenomenal defense.

For those who say he's shit the bed against great offenses. When he's had a mostly full cast, prior to this year he's done well against Pittsburgh twice, dominated NE (then did halfway decent in the playoffs against Denver), dominated San Diego almost every time, dominated Detroit, did very well against Seattle and Arizona. The only team that's had his number consistently outside of those 12-13 games is Peyton Manning.

I know he's flawed. When he has puke at the #2 CB, he can't adjust. But those who want him fired are spoiled. He's been awesome most of his time in KC.

:clap: It cracks me up listening to people bitch about Sutton. We know his flaws. His results speak for themselves.

Laz will put a hit on you for this thread

I wanted to fire him or demote him once Wade Phillips became available.

I'll never forget how he looked like a deer in the headlights during the Indy playoff collapse.

I agree. I watched DJ White in person at the preseason game against the Rams. He was lost. I can't believe he's starting or playing significantly.

If the offense produces anything, Sutton looks much better.

I've been hearing in the years he's been here that "Sutton doesn't make halftime adjustments!"

The only reason people say he doesn't make adjustments is because his defenses might continue to struggle throughout a game. I'd like to see a single defensive coordinator in this league that runs certain formations/concepts in one half, then says to himself, "Hmm. You know what, I've been thinking about this all wrong! If I just change _______ then my defense will actually become all-world and awesome! Whoda thunk it!?"

Criticizing Reid for offensive playcalling is easy because most people are watching offensive plays develop from snap to snap, and very few of them when watching a game in real time will focus on how the defense is picking up on routes and filling in gaps. Now, I'm admittedly not very adept at remembering which coverages we run and how often, but there are an insane amount of people on this forum that wouldn't know Cover-3 from a goddamn grapefruit, and they tend to be the same people who say, "Bob Sutton doesn't make adjustments in the game!" I'm willing to bet Sutton could make his defensive players wear ****ing clown wigs the rest of the game and not one of these assholes would notice it.

Oh, the game with both pass rushing olb's out for injury?

That one, but a drooling idiot could have figured out a way to keep the lead.


I personally would have told my DB's to hold every play. I could live with 5 yards and time off the clock every play.

The defense did exactly what Indy needed to do happen for them to come back.

Refs won't see every hold either.

What? DJ White outperformed Keivarie Russell, which is part of the reason he was cut. He also had a nice play against the Jets.

But keep in mind, he's a 6th rounder that's somewhat raw. I don't understand why Acker wasn't in that package but I guess that says more about Acker than White.

And Flowers was lost early in the 3rd quarter, too, not to mention Charles, Avery and in the 4th, Knile Davis with a broken leg.

It was a veritable MASH unit.

Truth

Sutton and this defense will be better when Justin Houston returns because he is the missing piece to this defense.

Yeah... I think Sutton is trash. He's had a defense full of pro bowlers since he arrived and the team rarely holds up against strong offenses. How many times have we seen him trot a young/rookie CB out there, and not be able to adjust when a team starts picking on him?

The Chiefs defense gets by because it has a ton of individual talent turning in great individual performances. It's not a strong unit collectively, in scheme or attitude.

Sutton feasts on bad teams and the individual play of star players.

Did you read my post or just post on your own?

Sutton had a bad run at the end of 2013 when Cooper was getting eaten alive with Kendrick Lewis as over the top help. He had a bad run beginning of 2015 for 4 games with rookie Marcus Peters and Sean Smith suspended.

Sutton posted an excellent 2014 defense with Berry, DJ, and Devito out for the season and in a year where they were so desperate for corners they marched out with Fleming and Parker as their two guys. He closed the year decently last year missing Justin Houston, including a dominant performance against Houston in the playoffs. He dominated New England on MNF, solid performances against Pitt 2x and Arizona, dominated San Diego the past 2 years, dominated Detroit in London, excellent performance against Seattle 2 years ago.

He's been good to dominant in 2/3 of his games. And the bad 1/3 came in stretches where he was extremely short-handed.

Sean Smith out on injury. Don't recall him begging hurt for 2015.

Something the problem maybe the lack of NFL experience.

Suspension

NFL network "I don't know who's idea it was to run cover 0 against one of the best offenses in the NFL, but it wasn't a smart move, Big Ben took advantage of it."

Sutton is the absolute best coach on the staff. But he should be fired...time for the planet to banner up and get him gone.

I think the steelers with leveon bell could be one of the most frustrating offenses to game plan for. This looked to me like a game where Suttons game plan was a little frustrating. But I don't know any adjustment would have been much help.

I personally think that Wade Phillips is by far the best DC in the league right now, and even he wouldn't look quite so bright if Von Miller was on the sidelines right now...

That's the hand Sutton was dealt. Make due without your best player AND very young defensive backs.

Overreaction Planet

I like buttons and his defense. It's harmless

Sutton is sure as hell part of the problem.

You can't blame him if his back is sore. From having to carry that offense for the past 3 years.

45 seconds to respond after my post.

You have just been waiting 5 hours since you started this thread for me to respond.

Can see you hovering over the keyboard hitting refresh every 5 minutes.

LMAO

I'm over, so over Reid, Smith and Sutton....

Sooner gone the better.

IIRC, Sutton was getting destroyed by Buffalo and came out at after half time allowing practically nothing. That or Sean Smith just got his head out of his ass. Probably the latter.

Easy to criticize when Houston isn't there to deliver pressure, Tamba isn't even able to make it into even a third of snaps, Gaines is replaced by rookie DJ white and our linebackers got their asses handed to them by Leveon bell.

the whole d's dynamic would change if Houston were healthy - but, well...

It's not going to happen though.

Hunt fire Marty and had to wait years to be competitive.

Reid won't fire Sutton.


The most we can hope for is a real OC to reduce Andy's influence and a QB draft pick that shocks the world and wins the job.

The draft pick is going to have to shock the world too because Andy doesn't seem particular interested in developing a young QB. Murray,Hogan ... Bray would have been cut already too if he hadn't gotten hurt each year and made himself an easy keep.

I suppose there is an outside chance that Foles takes over for Smith since he seems to be an Andy favorite too. Foles will still have to dink and dunk constantly though.

I actually don't care too much about what you think. I know where you stand and am not going to change your mind, and I'm cool with that. My OP was mostly directed at the comment that he's had no success against good defenses.

LMAO

Childress isn't a capable Offensive Coordinator?

The phrase you're looking for is "Play Caller" and Andy Reid isn't giving up play calling duties, ever.

Gonna call bullshit on this. Sutton kept calling the same defense over and over again, even though it was getting torched. He runs his game plan, and nothing else. Good defensive coordinators do not do that. His defenses are torched time and time again by any QB who is above average, and elite QB's like Big Ben own him.

*sigh*


"real" as in real-ly has the OC job and not just an assistant to Andy.

Chilly was very good with Reid in Philly, then had the Vikings in the NFC Championship Game in the "Bounty Game" that took out Favre.

He's not a bozo, he's not Jim Bob Cooter or Brian Daboll or Mike Solari or any number of bozos that have rolled through town since Al Saunders.

Andy's play calling, for the most part this year, has sucked. It's on him, plain and simple. And when he ****s up the offense, the defense is usually ****ed, too.

It doesn't help that Morse has severely regressed, Ehinger was available for only one game, LDT's played in two and Schartz has been a disappointment. You can also add Spencer Ware and Jeremy Maclin to the list.

The bottom line is that there are many, many reasons why the offense has stalled this year but the main reason is Andy Reid's play calling, which has been nothing short of abysmal.

Big Ben threw for 220 yards when they played two years ago.

Sutton owns Phillip Rivers. He owned Brady several years ago. He did pretty well against Russell Wilson and Carson Palmer. The only QB he consistently couldn't stop was Peyton Manning, but that was a lot of people's problems. I have no idea where this is coming from. Aaron Rodgers owned Jamel Fleming. Roethlisberger owned DJ White. Sutton gets owned when he has very bad CB talent, not when he faces elite QBs.

It's not Suttons fault guys aren't getting to the QB. It's the franchises fault for botching Houston injury then knowing and doing nothing to improve the OLB position.

Nonsense.

The Chiefs took the advice of the best sports surgeon in the world.

Doctors aren't infallible.

And eventually this year, he'll be back.

Consider that he made S. Smith look good at Corner. Not ok, but good.

Yeah, we'll be a different D once Houston is in game shape...

Brian Daboll, lol

http://i.imgur.com/DQvPSgE.gif

Yeah. Ford had a shared sack and drew a holding call in Pitt before the game went crazy.

He's been decent as a complimentary rusher, but needs to step up.

Yes Sutton is part of the problem. He overworked Dontari to the point where Poe had to have back surgery due to a herniated disc

http://espn.go.com/blog/kansas-city-.../es.pn/2d32qvG


Chiefs' lack of depth at cornerback was exposed in Pittsburgh
8:28 AM CT
Adam Teicher
ESPN Staff Writer
KANSAS CITY, Mo. – Not that he alone was going to prevent Sunday night’s debacle in Pittsburgh, but the Kansas City Chiefs missed injured starting cornerback Phillip Gaines.

Gaines, who tore his ACL last season, had a setback in practice last week. Coach Andy Reid called it a “tweak,” but it was enough of one that the Chiefs deactivated Gaines against the Steelers.

“I’m not going to say he reinjured it," Reid said. “Whatever it was, we just decided to back off there. That’s how these things sometimes work.”


The Chiefs are hoping to have Phillip Gaines back after the bye week. Erik Williams/USA TODAY Sports
Without Gaines, the Chiefs lack of depth at cornerback was exposed. Steven Nelson started and rookie D.J. White was the third cornerback. White received his first extended playing time, and saying it didn’t go well is putting it kindly.

This is where the failure with this year's third-round draft pick, KeiVarae Russell, hurts the Chiefs. Russell was buried on the depth chart at the end of training camp and the Chiefs released him.

As a third-round pick, Russell should have been advanced enough to help in a pinch in a situation such as the one the Chiefs were faced with in Pittsburgh. But the Chiefs instead whiffed on the pick.

Even without Russell, it looked like the Chiefs had some depth at corner heading into the season. They felt comfortable moving a couple of cornerbacks, Jamell Fleming and rookie Eric Murray, to safety. Fleming has since been released.

They also traded Marcus Cooper, their most experienced cornerback, to the Arizona Cardinals.

But they were left with a bunch of young cornerbacks: Gaines, Nelson, White, Marcus Peters and Kenneth Acker. Without a true veteran in the bunch, the Chiefs should have expected the occasional rotten game.

That’s what they got in Pittsburgh.

Gaines could be back in time for the Chiefs’ next game on Oct. 16 against the Raiders in Oakland. If he’s not, or if the Chiefs have another cornerback injury somewhere else along the way, they got a glimpse in Pittsburgh of what that grim reality might be like.

It's not a surprise to people who complained about not doing anything for our secondary or pass rush before the season even started.

Has Acker even played a significant number of snaps?

Chiefs getting torched was going to happen regardless. We have a young secondary and no depth. Sean smith leaving and shipping our other veteran cooper to the cardinals, as well as whiffing on that russel pick is why we got torched from pitts high powered offense. Couple that with Alex Smiths limitations you get a blowout.

Glad we burned two 3rd round picks

This team made a strategic decision to balance offense vs defense. The thinking was that if you give Andy and Alex more weapons, they'll rely less on the defense to carry games. Problem is, our defense got worse and our offense stayed the same if not worse.

So now I'm looking at the Schwartz, Maclin, fisher, Kelce mega contracts, not to mention the option we had to cut charles' contract, and wondering what a different place this team would be in if we used that for even just one or two defensive backs. Not to mention making some kind of attempt to eventually replace Hali.

Interesting. I've watched every Pitt snap a second time, and KC never ran cover 0 vs any of the deep plays. Not much blitzing at all TBH.

3rd rounders fail at like something of a 75% clip after two seasons anyway, Bill.

So glad we kept DaT on the roster.

Easily the most WTF roster decision Dorsey has made.

What does D'AT do that Hill can't do? If D'AT is worth keeping, is it really worth keeping Wilson considering they are somewhat similar in terms of what they present as players..?

It's not just the corners though. We have 5 sacks. That's tied for 2nd to last.

At least we traded out of the first and drafted a player that gets 20 snaps per game.

BB never took Wilfork out in his prime either.

ROFL

Almost forgot about that.

Too early to judge a DL but he certainly hasn't made an immediate impact.

Yeah I'm not judging Jones, but we're sitting here talking about the lack of depth at CB and pass rusher while the Chiefs highest draft pick this year is averaging 20 snaps per game.

And it's not like the CB issue came out of nowhere. I'm not the only one that said that the loss of Smith left nothing but unknown players at the position... now people want to say playing a rookie CB is an excuse, like the organization isn't responsible for the team having nothing but a rookie to put out there.

Yet the Chiefs had six interceptions against the Jets, including an interception by a 6th round pick this year.

The Chiefs are only 4 games into the season, while easing back their most needed players on defense in Gaines and Hali, all the while, waiting the return of Justin Houston. Eric Berry is still getting back into football shape, too.

Don't fall into the Claynus hole.

And yet some of us were derided for saying these players wouldn't be at 100% to start this season, and the team would suffer for it.

Shocking that we're now in agreement so it can be used as an excuse. ROFL

Shut the **** up, you gigantic, weeping ****.

The ban hammer can't come soon enough.

We are criticizing Jones' snap count when he's playing behind Poe, Bailey, and Howard? Are you kidding me?? We drafted a CB number one a year ago and Sutton had Nelson and Gaines going into the season ...

This place can get straight illogical at times

You really have zero clue about football. Don't understand strategy, personnel, technique, basically nothing. Just stick to making gifs and being a complete tool on this board.

I'm not criticising Jones' snap count. I'm criticizing the front office decision to use their highest draft pick on a backup when pass rusher and CB were known needs.

They had 3 developing CB's and thought they had found someone when they drafted Russell... Jones was the right pick. Imaging going into next season with a hole in your DL or no depth. Far worse problem especially when you consider our run defense has been lacking for 3 years now

Which 2016 CB is kicking ass?

WJIII is on IR. Vonn Bell, who I liked, hasn't done dick for NO, one of the worst defenses in the league.

Eli Apple was inactive against the Vikings in a loss Monday night. Jalen Ramsey plays for a terrible defense and a 1-3 shit team with 16 special teams tackles.

Need I go on?

Wrong again.

Many uttered concern over an aging Hali, an absent Berry in training camp, kid gloves with the likes of Charles and Gaines and a young secondary. The majority were saying 2-2 going into the bye week was realistic if not likely.

Why you and others may have been "derided" as you say has everything to do with the delivery, and less to do with the substance.

Any supportive or positive posts regarding the team you classify under "HOMER", while anything that magnifies the teams flaws you celebrate and cherry pick with your predictable "I told you so" childish behaviour. Anybody can be a fence-sitter.
You have made this your calling card.

Thank you. This was discussed at length and 2 docs, my best friend and father, also a trained orthopod, explained it concisely about his injury and surgery timeline. The organization didn’t screw up.
You don't invest 50 - 60 million in something or someone and ignore that investment!

With what $$?

How'd they look @ GB last year under pretty much the same circumstances?

Too bad it never got better when the starters got back or put together a string of wins.

I don't have to imagine going into next season with a hole in the D-line. I can experience it in real time right now. Every team with a pulse has gashed us right up the gut in the run game.

No pass rush + inexperienced secondary = big problems for any team.

Good punch in the crotch to that knuckle head

KC finishes 25th in defense in 2012.

Defense ranks top five in points allowed the following three seasons.

Fans want DC fired after four games of the fourth season.

This is why we can't have nice things.

Watch the film, it's our linebackers. Without Poe it would be far worse

So WTF was up with Gaines and why wasn't he out there last week?

It'd be nice if he had some answer to stop elite QBs that have a release time which negates even the most beastly of pass rushers.

Tweaked his knee in practice, I thought?