Two 1st round picks for Russell Wilson in '16 and '17 or '17 and '18
 

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Clayton on show seems to hint that SEA would be open to non-exclusive Tag for RW in 2016- seems surprising but SEA will study all avenues</p>&mdash; DAVIS HSU (@DavisHsuSeattle) <a href="https://twitter.com/DavisHsuSeattle/status/612329650828652544">June 20, 2015</a></blockquote>
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Do you sign the offer sheet if the Seahawks non-exclusively tag Russell Wilson?

Pole cumming.

We gave two 2nds for smith. same QB.

Hum.

Would be tough choice. He's won games, but he's had the best all around team around him to h3lp. When he's had to he's carried them a time or two, but without seeing him consistently best people from the pocket, I'd be hesitant to burn 2 forst rounders and a contract on him.

Added to the fact that the Seahawks don't seem sold on him.

Probably pass

Lmfao ... I'd give 5. No brainer. Guy has "it" times 1000

There is no ****ing way this happens by the way. Seattle will give him a giant contract guaranteed

This is a deal that would be bad for both teams. Not going to happen.

Nice thread, though.

In a heartbeat, unless ugh steps up in 2015, BIGTIME (which I think will happen)

Those will be 2 very late first rounders.

Why can't we just draft our own with our first pick and then save our other picks to help build the team around him?


Just an idea.

He definitely has the it factor and leadership stuff.

But 2 firsts and making him the highest paid player in football is gonna kill your potential advantage. Seems Seattle is thinking the same thing or atleast that's what they're leaking to the media

The reason Seattle has been able to be as successful as they have or ine if the reasons (biggest imo) is the Wilson's rookie deal.

It allowed them to stick the cabinet around him.

I would give them our entire draft for 2 years. Why would anyone possibly say no?

Alex Smith

There is no way Russell leaves Seattle. This is just a dead time in sports. Gotta talk about something

Because he's not the type of QB you give up 2 first round picks for. He's not Aaron Rodgers or Andrew Luck. He's played with one of the best defenses in the NFL his entire career. If he played in Green Bay or Indianapolis, those teams wouldn't make the playoffs.

Look at all the starters that are free agents in addition to Russell Wilson in 2016.

Bobby Wagner
Russell Okung
Brandon Mebane
Bruce Irvin
JR Sweezy
Alvin Bailey
Tony McDaniel
Jermaine Kearse

And that's with Michael Bennett demanding more money as well.

Somethings going to give. If/when they pay Russell Wilson more money than any NFL player, they are going to lose a ton of talent that helped them get there in the first place.

Right.

How many first round picks is Luck worth? Just curious.

Give up 2 1st's for Russell and be locked into Alex Smith for ridiculous money. And people think Daniel is an expensive backup.

I'd give three first round picks for Luck and he's the only QB in the NFL I would give more than 2 first round picks for.

Assuming we could dump Alex and Chase's contracts with no flack, I would. Eric Fisher, Dee Ford and Marcus Peters for DangeRussell Wilson? Done.

This thought literally shouldn't even be entertained by Chiefs fans though. For one, the Seahawks aren't going to let him go. They're in the same boat as the Ravens with Flacco a few years ago. They have to pay him. Two, we've already got like $20 million on the books for our QBs alone this year. We'd essentially be paying $50 million just for QBs this season. It would kill our team.

The way I see it, there are two ways to build a team. You either find an elite QB, pay whatever it takes to keep him, and hope he can carry a roster of JAGs and young, cheap players or you pick up the cheapest possible QB and use the money to build a monster squad around him.

Two 1st round picks for Russell Wilson in '16 and '17 or '17 and '18
 

An organization was willing to trade a 1st rounder for Sam Bradford. Guys like Andrew Luck and Russell Wilson could fathomably be worth 3+ 1sts or entire drafts.

Seattle has done the latter. They found a cheap third round QB and built a monster squad around him.

In terms of qb play, I can't put luck and Wilson in the same category.

We can't see what he'd be without the d until he doesn't have it, but the advanced metrics, iirc, weren't really nice to russel, which to me, says he's carried more than he carries.

There's an argument there that he can do it, but he hasn't been asked to do what Luck does/is.

He's a just gutsier Alex Smith, two firsts is too high.

We've had this argument on this board ad nauseam..

But they've both gotten help in different ways. Russell's defense has been very good, as has his running game; but he certainly helps Marshawn out. The two have a synergistic effect on the offense. Lynch only averaged 4.7 YPC (which is just a bit better than league average) last year but the Seahawks COMFORTABLY led the league in YPC at 5.3. Russell damn near added 1,000 rushing yards by himself.

Wilson also hasn't had the receiving options or number of attempts Luck has.

You could argue Luck is asked to do more but I argue he's been given more chances to do more.

Is Wilson worth 2 first round picks? Yes. Also, Wilson is a better QB than Smith.

A gutsy Alex Smith would likely be a damn fine QB, would he not?

Russ is faster, more accurate, better at extending the play, better at making big plays, and better in the clutch anyway. They're really only similar in the fact that they're not asked to do a ton and prefer efficiency over gaudy stats.

For Reid's system, he would be the ultimate. You can't even debate or question it. I'd give them Houston straight-up.

Well, yeah he's been given more chances, it gives them the better chance to win with luck throwing it like that.

You're kind of furthering the argument against it with the defense and lynch, plus Wilson's running ability.

For 2 first rounders and that salary, youve gotta win from the pocket and make guys around you that much better.

So far, we haven't seen wilson do that consistently, save for lynch and the running game. That's great and it'd a skill, but it's also a risk.

Seattle is about to sign him long-term, and we are about to watch him start having monster seasons statistically.

It doesn't mean they will be a better team, though.

Indeed he would make a fine QB, and I'm certainly not arguing that Russell isn't a fine QB.

But for two #1's I want a Roethlisberger/Luck clone, a top arm with the kind of size that he doesn't really have to run around too much, he can just stand in under the pressure 75% of the time and still deliver.

And I wouldn't say Wilson is all that much more accurate than Smith, Wilson is more accurate on deeper throws but he tossed 63% last year to Smiths 65% with me, you and Inmem at receiver.

So the accuracy argument is pretty arguable.

This board is so hypocritical it's hilarious

Yes, I would give 2 first for him without a second thought.

I was gauging accuracy off the eye test. Of course you're going to throw for a high completion percentage when you attempt the highest amount of passes within 10 yards of the LOS while also being dead last in passes attempted beyond 20 yards of the LOS.

Russell Wilson is 2-9 when his defense gives up 24 or more points.
And he's had the best defense in football along with a top 5 rushing attack and a top 5 OL.

Paying him means multiple players who are top 10 at their position including Michael Bennett, Bobby Wagner, Brandon Mebane and Russell Okung will be gone.

They have $40.6 million in cap space for 2016 and I would say roughly $24 million of that will be eaten up by Wilson next season if/when he gets a new deal.

The Seahawks won't have an all world surrounding team in 2016, which means we'll see how good Russell truly is.

Alex and Wilson are very similar QB's until crunch-time.


Wilson balls, Alex fails.


That's why Wilson is worth it.

Two 1st round picks for Russell Wilson in '16 and '17 or '17 and '18
 

Not at all. I just explained to you how Wilson makes their running game what it is. If you take him off the team and throw some other random, mid-tier QB they wouldn't enjoy near the success that they do on the ground.

But as to their great defense, that's exactly why Russ doesn't have as many opportunities to sling the rock like Luck. No team that leads the league in scoring defense will throw the ball 660+ times like the Colts did. Even if they had Aaron Rodgers.

If you swap the two from the start of their careers you'd likely be looking at a near exact swap in stats as well. Luck throws a ton of INTs on paper not because he's careless with the ball or inaccurate, but because he's asked to throw the ball a ton and feels the need to perform because if he doesn't he won't get any help from his running game. Russell won't throw for a ton of yards because he attempts a limited number of passes because he has a good defense. It doesn't mean he couldn't throw for 4,000+ yards and 40 TDs. He just won't get the chance as long as his defense is in the top 3, as he shouldn't.

The fact is, Wilson has consistently shown the ability to make crucial plays when necessary. The guy threw 26, 26 and 20 TDs these past three seasons to guys like Sidney Rice, Doug Baldwin, Jermaine Kearse and Luke Willson. He makes the guys around him better.

I get that, its why I said its only arguable.

But while they may not have had a true stud after Harvin was dealt, top to bottom I'd still take their receivers last year over ours... not to mention O lines.

Two 1st round picks for Russell Wilson in '16 and '17 or '17 and '18
 

And how much of that is based on Wilson's abilities? You can admit that he's got a more accurate deep ball that he's also more willing to throw? You can also likely admit that he's faster, more agile and better at extending plays in/around the pocket?

If you gave Alex Smith their Doug Baldwin, Jermaine Kearse and Luke Willson do you honestly think we'd be any better off? IMO, those guys aren't a marked improvement over Bowe, Wilson/Avery and Kelce.

The offensive line would be an improvement but most here can agree that Alex eats far too many sacks. He had a top 5 (possibly the best) offensive line in 2011 and still ate a shit ton of sacks. We'd still be looking to replace a lot of guys if we had the Hawks line.

If Seattle is comfortable moving on and receiving 2 first round picks for him, I question the need to give 2 first round picks.

Sure, he assists the running game alot. No doubt.

With a defense that good, you should throw it more and take more risks. However, as no one here likes to acknowledge, the offense plays to the defense by eating clock, keeping it fresh and playing to their strengths by being a run first offense.

But they are a run first defensive team. IMO, that shows a bit what or how they feel about Wilson.

If you gave luck that defense, they'd be near unbeatable.

Also I'll add that just because wilson hasn't been asked to do it, doesn't mean he cant.

But, it would be tough to pay said price without seeing him do that for a while.

Flip side, doesn't mean he can do it and maybe the fact that the Seahawks don't ask him to says something.

So, I'll give it an I don't know. 50 50

They're damn near unbeatable with Wilson.

With Wilson's contract for certain.

Of course, no one knows until he's called to do it consistently.

The fact that they don't ask him to throw the ball 30+ times per game should be obvious. They have the best defense in the league. Like I said, even with Aaron Rodgers at QB they wouldn't be slinging the rock 30+ times per game. It'd be an unnecessary risk.

Luck's team enjoys the same advantage, albeit at a lesser degree.

And for all the talk about Wilson's defense, that Colt defense usually plays pretty well in big games (cue people bringing up their playoff game against the Chiefs).

With that defense though, it's not unnecessary. It's the same argument people have here (OTWP for certain iirc) with Alex smith.

I agree that a great defense affords you the opportunity to take some risks.

But for one, head coaches in the NFL are pussies, and two, it would be inexcusable to throw the ball 40+ times per game with that Seahawk's defense.

I don't think guys like OTWP are pining for a QB to throw the ball a ton so much as they're asking for our QB to be more aggressive with the opportunities he's given. Russell Wilson has a great balance of aggression and risk aversion.

Inexcusable why? If the defense is that good, and Wilson could do it with the efficiency/results of Rodgers or luck, what's the problem?

Russell gets plenty of airtime, we've all seen his abilities multiple times... yes, better touch on the deep ball, he's no faster but IS more athletic on the move AND is much better able/willing? to throw on the move.

But my point remains that he's not sooo head and shoulders above Smith that he deserves or is worth two 1st's, and maybe never will be... he has some limitations of his own.

2014 Smith - 18 td 6 int

2014 Wilson - 20 td 7 int

See what I'm saying? they're not REMARKABLY different, even if we go ahead and say that their receivers and tight ends combined we're basically a push.

For two firsts I want a REMARKABLE difference.

Would I take him over Smith?

Yes.

Would I take him over Smith for two firsts?

No.

I think it's close. Any QB with a career rating over 95 is worth a lot, especially a young one. If you drafted him in the 1st round you'd be happy. But I can't shake the feeling that his rating is due in part to playing on a team that's strong and often playing with a lead. If he had gone to a bad team I'm not sure that he'd be so well regarded. I answered no, but I think he's worth more than a single 1st.

Wow! Eight people would do it! I wonder what those same people feel about the 2 2nds for Smith? Seattle is winning in spite of him. Not because of him. No way you give up 2 firsts for Wilson. Not on your life!

Because airing it out is far riskier than handing it off. Risking batted passes, tipped passes, interceptions, incompletions, clock stoppage, sack, sack/strip, QB injury, etc. all for what? To possibly blow your opponent out by three TDs instead of a comfortable 10 point win?

The running game is far friendlier to a defense than the passing game.

Wilson helps his team more than Smith by a long way. Wilson throws to a tune of nearly 8 YPA and has NEVER had a season with less than 20 TDs. Alex throws for <7 YPA and has 1 season with 20 TDs. Last year, Wilson ran for 25% of the yards Alex threw for.

It also carries far more reward. More points, quicker points, bigger plays etc.

More reward for more points would equal more wins.

I can plug in just about any starting # 1 NFL QB and Seattle wins with the weapons and D they have so for the sake of not arguing lets leave all backups & or # 2 QB's out of this discussion.

The answer to my the question ? No! Just too much of a price to pay and not have a complete team around him or leaving yourself strapped with no cash to play your current players since Wilson has it all tied up.

LMAO

You're so stupid.

The Chiefs need a R1 QB anyway, so why not spend an extra first for a guy who is:

1. Proven.

2. Can actually throw the ball down the field.

3. Is far younger than Smith.

No, you can't.

Wilson doesn't put up big numbers, but he makes big plays when the situation demands it more than just about any QB in the league today.

The only QB in the NFL today who is equal to or better at making plays when protection breaks down is Aaron Rodgers.

This ****ing ridiculous idea that "any" QB would win as much, is just a myth.

No, we do not have the finances for it. We are already paying too much for gone players. Then add Alex and couple other guys to make it work would gut the team for a few years unless we landed every 2nd round pick into a probowl starter on offense..

Sadly we are stuck with this team for 2-3 more years.. I will give you some insight, it will look like last years..


If we did not give Alex the contract then yes.

Wouldn't argue with a single word of that, that's why in a gimme scenario I'm taking Wilson every single time... but not for two firsts.

He's just not THAT much better, two firsts is deadly serious stuff... just look at Ditka giving away the farm for Williams... awesome back, but worth all of that?

****.

NO.

Nah, we're good with our first rounders. And Donald Stephenson.

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Once Donald becomes the starter we're going to forget all about Russell Wilson.

This website has been obsessed with having to have a QB to win, yet, somehow the team that has represented the NFC in the past two Super Bowls somehow does it without a QB

I just, lol

Who said they did it without a QB? Nobody is arguing that Wilson isn't a good QB. He's just not a GREAT QB and for two first round picks you have to get a great QB in return.

Why do we need a thread on every scenario that would never happen? ?

Wow. This poll. CP is ****ing dumb.

If you take the Chiefs two best first round picks in the history of the franchise ... Do they even represent 1/2 of Russell Wilson's value?

Never leave anything to a fan vote in KC. Dumbest fans in the country. We deserve the Chiefs

I'd give whatever it takes. No brainer

We don't draft QB's in the first round.

I wouldn't trade an hour of tailgating for Wilson.

Because we are Chiefsplanet.

Alex Smith and Russell Wilson had roughly the same number of attempted passes last season.

But Wilson was 7th in YPC and Alex was 28th.

There's your difference, and it is not small.

And in 2013 it was 3rd and 31st. LMAO

Wilson is still young. He is going to continue to improve as a QB in this league. Yes he is worth 2 first round picks!

Alex Smith sucks.

Russell Wilson isn't worth the price.

Chiefs fans are clinically insane.

Russell Wilson, total TDs produced per 16 games, average of his 3 seasons:

27.6

Alex Smith, total TDs produced per 16 games, average of his last 4 seasons:

21.4

Same QB, sure.

He's already better than Alex, and he's only going to continue to widen the gap.

It's a no brainer.

You think Marshawn Lynch is good on those wheel routes he catches from Wilson? Replace Lynch with Jamaal Charles and see what he can do out of the backfield.

He's only like 4 years younger than Alex. The gap between the two isn't big enough to justify 2 firsts IMO. That could set us back a ways

Nah. I think people around the league and maybe in Seattle too are starting to see that Wilson is a system QB who has been in a perfect situation thus far.