Saving money by drafting Cam Erving
 

In 2013, I hated the Eric Fisher pick for multiple reasons. Worst of all was the idea of letting a pretty good LT walk for an average yearly salary for $9.400,000, which for a starting LT isn't bad as long as you're really confident in the player you acquired. Some people didn't like Albert as much as me... whatever. But our replacement for him was the #1 overall pick, whose contract was worth 4 years $22 million, or a yearly average of about 5.5 million. For the #1 overall pick, we got a worse player in the short term (small school) and possibly the long term all so we could save about $4 million per year on the cap.

The idea of drafting Cam Erving isn't quite as bad, but it's still the same philosophy. We're avoiding a much worse fate (paying 9 million/year for a C instead of a LT) than with Albert's contract situation, and our hypothetical replacement is at the #18 overall pick instead of at #1. Last year's 17th, 18th, and 19th overall picks are making somewhere around 4 years, 8-9 million, so the contract is also far better than Eric Fisher's meddling pennies we would have saved over not paying Albert. However, we're also spending a 1st on a C and a worse player than the guy who left town.

I'm fine with using a 1st to replace aging guys on the brink of retirement like in Hali's case. I'm fine using a 1st in large position groups like CB and WR, where depth is so crucial that you can never have too many good players stacked up. And I'm also fine with using a 1st to fill a hole or oust somebody who's just not any good, which is why I'm cool with La'el Collins or a true RT in the 1st.

But I can't stand using a 1st rounder just to avoid paying good starting players that the team wants to keep. It turns the 1st round pick, aka the most consistent source of finding blue chip franchise players, and it turns it into a game played by your front office salary cap guys and not your talent scouts. It's WORSE than drafting for need-- it's essentially drafting for a need that you manufactured.

This is at least a better situation than Eric Fisher. We're saving about $6.5-7 million per year on the cap for our starting C. That's better than saving a piddly $3.5-4 million per year on the cap for our starting LT. And as much as I like Kush, he's not like Branden Albert, an established veteran that we knew was good enough to not only start but play pretty well.

So do you think the money savings coupled with the poor positional value in the draft and decrease in playing ability is worth it for Cam Erving?

If Dorsey drafts Cam Erving at #18, he's dead to me.

This is one pick that would make me throw my tv out the window

When I think about our first round pick, the first thing that comes to my mind is "I hope they pick someone who can save us a few bucks against the cap."

:spock:

Cam Erving may be a fine prospect, but its unrealistic to think that he is going to start in 2015. He is very raw playing center, and Reid's playbook is very complicated. There is no way he would be able to make the line calls by the start of the season.

It would be hard to imagine that he could beat out Kush who has been in this same offense now for 2yrs. Thus, Erving wouldnt really be offering any true competition to Kush nor would he be any 'savings' in the short term.

Can't find the article right now, but I remember seeing in Andy's tenure in Philly his centers were undrafted. And then he got Jason Kelce in the 6th

I hate the idea of Erving in the first and don't see it happening

Reaching for a 2nd round CB, Maxx Williams, Jake Fisher, Bernardrick McKinney are better moves than taking a freaking center in the 1st round.

I know it's been said millions of times every year.....but we're in a spot where we need to trade down (unless a top 3 WR falls).

It's very rare to find an OL that has the feet to play LT and strength and brawn to play center.

I try not to get hung up on the position as much as the player. IMHO, at 18 if you draft a guy that becomes a pro bowler and locks down that position for the next decade it was a great pick regardless of whether it's a C, S, ILB or even G.

Agholor FTW

Letting Hudson walk proves that this regime doesn't value the position like other teams. We had one of the best in the league and let him walk to draft another in the first? This isn't the same as Abert/Fisher. Albert was damn near 30, always banged up, and got paid 11 a year. And Fisher was widely considered the best player in the draft. Hudson was 25 and one of the top at his position, and we let him walk.. Erving is far from a sure thing. Best case scenario he is as good as Hudson was in 2 years

When was Fisher widely considered to be the best player in the draft? Pretty sure that up until draft day....they had us going back and forth between Fisher and Joekel.

I think it would be worth it simply for the reaction of SNR.

That was what the Chiefs thought when they picked Eric Fisher.

They already had two starting OTs on the team and a promising 3rd round swing tackle who had already started some games. They manufactured a hole by cutting Winston, and when negotiations with Albert to pay him chump change fell through, they tagged him and drafted Fisher, preparing for next year when Albert would walk.

If they drafted Fisher because they really believed he was a good player worthy of that pick, then why tag Albert at all? Let him walk and try to recover one of the picks we lost for Alex Smith.

I've seen alot of stuff that he's going higher than people think. In a perfect world we trade back and take him?

speaking of only cap value, the biggest bargains are going to come from qb, lt, wr, cb, and pass rusher.

10th highest paid for each position
QB 17.6m
LT 8.5m
WR 9.7m
4-3de/3-4 olb-10m
CB 9.5m

C- 6.2m and the 11th highest paid C in the nfl "only" :deevee: makes 3.2m a year.

If whatever player we draft in the first develops into a top 10 type player, a center would only offer more value than a guard, a 3-4 end, fb, and a 4-3 olb.

a big reason why seattles been able to keep their team in tact is by saving nearly 17m a year due to russel wilson being on a rookie contract.

i know there are more factors to selecting a player, but this thread is about cap savings, and a first round center offers very little. i'd like to see is grab a tackle with lt potential, or a cb for when sean smith wants his 10+m a year after next season. or any other fallers.

After the senior bowl. It was either him or Joeckel at the top of 90% of big boards. Most had Fisher at the top with the higher upside

Hudson was that type of player.

Then he wanted to get paid and the Chiefs said, "No. It's not worth it."

I still believe the Chiefs were right to not pay that money to Hudson. So what's to stop the exact same scenario from happening with Erving if he becomes the greatest C of all time? If Dorsey didn't want to fork over the money this time, I highly doubt he'll want to do so in 4 years.

No first round fatties, period... I'd be more than ok with picking up a RT like Havenstein in the 2-3 range, or a Jarvis Harrison project for guard.

Grab a veteran backup center after camp cuts.

But no first rounders, please... only playmakers need apply.

Simply put, this is a reason you always take BPA especially in the later rounds. Take talent, let it sort itself out, then you don't have to overpay for guys like hudson. They've got kush, let him play.

Albert was 27 and had missed 5 games in his entire tenure with the Chiefs when we entered the 2013 draft. Also, sportrac says he's getting about 9.5 million/year, NOT 11/year. Also, HE'S A ****ING LT, not a C.

That's hardly what I would call "damn near 30 and, always banged up, and got paid 11 a year"

I'm already dead inside. The Colts loss changed me forever.

I'll probably say "**** you, Dorsey" and move on.

I dont think it would be a bad pick to be honest

We save money by starting kush, this is a straw man argument methinks.

First thought:

- In terms of a football fan, and the decisions that your team makes... accept what you can not control. Too many people suck at this.

Players (and agents) have the right to state their demands and set their value.
GMs have the right to set their value and limit on what they will pay that player before he even opens his mouth.

Branden Albert and Hudson set their price.. and it clearly was far more than KC was willing to pay. Maybe they were just happy to get the **** out of Missouri. So be it.. time to move on.

As for whether Erving is a worthy candidate for #18? Well, that is obviously subjective. Would he be ready to start right away? There have been some good and fair comments that suggest he would not be.. so that of course if true may push him out of being worthy of #18. I have seen a dozen or so sites that have him anywhere from mid-1st rd to mid-2nd... so #18 doesn't seem unreasonable to consider.

.. and if they want to wait till day 3 to address C competition for Kush? Fine by me too. Life's too short to make a big deal about things that are so far out of our control.

That's silly. It should be about wins and losses.

Lol. But Andy needs a rib eating buddy.

The Chiefs will win far more games by adding a skilled playmaker in the first round, whether it's WR, CB, TE or ILB, than a 6'5 offensive lineman that is a jack of all trades and master of none.

If they are worried about replacing players slated to become high-priced FAs then I would think CB or OLB would be at the top of their list.

Sorry guys you know this is coming....

@TerezPaylor: NFL Network analyst @CFD22 says one player who might make sense for the #Chiefs is FSU center Cameron Erving.

@TerezPaylor: NFL Network analyst @MoveTheSticks thinks the #Chiefs could go with Texas A&M OT Cedric Ogbuehi.

:thumb:

I wouldn't be terribly upset with a tackle. But a center? F that noise.

This.

I understand that we were awful at RT last year, but you can't tell me that one of Allen, Stephenson or even Sherrod can't fill that void?

I'm just so tired of lineman rd 1.

I agree.

But it seems the value is going to be rt about where we are picking.

Would rather have a corner though

I have a problem with a C in the first period especially when we could get Grasu in the 2cd but maybe 3rd while adding a player at a more important position.

Two of those three will be gone, its almost certain... and yes, **** round 1... plenty of offensive line talent available rounds 3-4, just like theres always been.

Truth is, we need/WILL need a right tackle... but only as long as its in the right round.

Dorsey will be the one who drafted this guy.
It's possible we'd be in better cap space in the future

It's also possible they think 9 mill is flat out too much for a center. I wouldn't think you'd draft one with the 18th pick of the first round if that were the case.

This has got to be a running joke among sports writers.

"Which fatty are YOU picking for KC this year"?

Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeze.....

We should draft an OL in the first and trade at least one 2nd rounder for San Francisco's backup QB every year IMHO.

This is a sound plan/Hunt family.

Dorsey has been drafting with the intention of this team hitting its stride as Manning and Rivers leave the division/retire.

If I read him correctly, this draft will include guys that should be able to contribute a lot sooner than previous picks that were guys with massive ceilings but needed to develop.

Erving isn't playing center.

Jesus ****ing stop Dancing Christ.

He was a First Team All-American at LT.

He was a Honorable Mention All-Conference at C.

He's 6'5" with 34"+ arms and good athleticism, feet and kick.

He's built in a triangle with a V-top tapering down to long legs.

He's not ****ing playing center in the NFL.

He played center in college because they had a massive hole and he made the switch for the team. You don't move over an All-American left tackle to center because they suck at LT. You do it because you don't have any other option when making another National Championship run.

This thread sucks.

Hey, OP!...

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/me...kis_finger.jpg

Want to make a wager that some team will draft Erving with the intention of playing him at C?

Your call

Don't laugh, the pick is in.

Daniel Jeremiah made a lot of comparisons of Erving to Walter Jones.

While I principle I agree with you... if there was a way they could make their cap work and keep Hudson they should have done it, but he's gone now and you need a center (that is of course unless you're OK with having a below-average C as your starter in Kush, which you're entitled to.)

If that happens, then I think it's irresponsible of the GM to just burn a 1st rounder on a hole that opens up in free agency, especially when it's at a position like C.

The fact that the Chiefs had McGlynn at LG is not an excuse for drafting a 1st round G, and it shouldn't be an excuse for drafting a C in the first round even if Kush sucks. You need to prepare for that circumstance another way-- through scouring the veteran market and keeping track of the training camp cuts.

It can't be Erving. That's irresponsible GMing 101.

Are we looking for an instant upgrade over Kush at center?

If so then **** this guy, he will NOT be an instant upgrade... grab a cheap vet after camp cuts and cross our fingers on Kush, it makes hella more sense than reaching WAY out for a starting center with our #1.

Exactly. We can fix that position permanently at any time. Just not in the first round.

ABR. Always be replacing. That's the NFL

Quote:

The Pick: Center Cameron Erving, Florida State

What a horrendous ****ing waste of a pick.