Job Advice On Postion Offered
 

So I applied for an open position with a company. As part of the application I gave my minimum accepted salary. When I received a phone call from them to set up an interview I asked what range they were looking to pay. Their answer: "I haven't looked yet but we are within range of what you put down for your minimum or we wouldn't have called"

Okay, fair enough. So I go to the interview. At the end of the interview I ask the HR person, "what range are you looking to pay?". I get the same answer of we have to pull numbers and this and that but what you are asking for is within our range. Again, fair enough.

Today I get an offer 10% below what I stated as my minimum accepted and told that is the highest they can go because the position is that and not that.

So I'm kinda like, WTF happened to "within range"? I asked twice on two separate occasions what they were looking to pay and both times I was lead to believe what I stated as a minimum was close to an acceptable level. I understand coming in initially below my stated minimum but this sounds kinda shitty, really.

Worth negotiating? I do want the position but I am not hurting nor in desperate need for it either.

Youre worth 10% less than everybody else obviously.

Need more detail.

**** that


Get back that 10% and ask for 5 more

Bastards

Probably trying to low ball so you counter with the original agreement and feel like it was a win


If you want to be low balled stay where you are, changing positions should be a step up bro

See if there is a glass door review for the company.

Also, see if other parts of the benefits are negotiable. More vacation time for example.

Most organizations are moving to banded pay - but I promise you - these things are ALWAYS negotiable - usually for external hires like you especially. Believe it or not as an internal hire, your pay is much more controlled. One may be able to score the money theyre looking for through a lower base and some sort of guarantee in bonus or other form of compensation.

Anyways as an external if they want you, they will pay for you. End of story.

Do they know how much time you waste posting here?

Sign on bonus.

Yeah, need more detail. I took my current position with a salary less then I asked for at minimum. I got a raise to my minimum salary request in two months and another 8000 dollar per year raise at the end of last year.

So, depends on the company, rate of advancement, and living expenses in the area.

Make sexy time on their faces

http://imgur.com/sqJDH.gif

The 10% diff is in their range

Ask them to hire you at a more senior version of that position. It will have a higher salary range. If they say no then you say that you have to decline.

If they aren't willing to pay you your current salary plus some for switching then whatever. They can't really expect people to take a pay cut to work for them.

Remember this is the only time "you" have any power. Stay strong and stick to your guns. Ask for a company car, 6 weeks vacation pay and all holidays off. Also you will need a secretary that is 23 and will do whatever you ask.

You are welcome.

Assuming the amount you put as a minimum is really your minimum:

Counter with 10% over your minimum. If they don't counter with atleast your minimum, thank them for their time and walk.

Their "range" started at $0. Sucker.....

You told them about your "9/11 was an inside job" theories during the interview didn't you? I told you not to do that.

I've heard of that strategy before. It's like the "what part of minimum is it I need to explain to you?"

Minimum is the new medium

Go with this

When your minimum starts with a number higher then the number their offer starts with then I think we have an issue.

I feel you. They love money just as much as you do.

I've traveled my ass off. Worked 80 hour weeks. Been on call with no comp. And still been stiffed while they employed worthless new hires for for twice what they were paying me.

I'll never take a job again for less than what I need/want.
I ask myself: If I never get a raise again, is this enough compensation for me and my family? If the answer is no, I won't take the job.

Like previously said, you will never have as much bargaining power as you have right now.

It depends on where you are in life but Salary isn't your only compensation. It's possible they feel they are in range w/ benefits.

I hear ya. This is both disappointing and disturbing. I was really looking forward to the position. But when HR called with their offer I was not very happy afterwards.

1. You told me twice that what I was asking for was "within range".
2. You tell me the low offer is because the position is for A and not B.

#2 is the part that pisses me off. As if they didn't know what the position was to begin with? It's like, how ****ing stupid do you think I am? The entire "within range" part is the disappointing part of it. I'm sitting here thinking "within range" means you can meet it or beat it. Not you can come in 10% below.

Counter them of tell them To kick rocks

While I agree they probably do feel that way. Generally when someone asks you what you are wanting to pay and you respond with "well, I haven't nailed it down but what you are asking for is within my range that I am willing to pay", it means you are with range of the salary. That is why they ask for your "minimum accepted salary".

Ask them for a stand up desk, an inflatable ball chair, and an ashtray for you to set your cigar down in occasionally during the work day

Really confuse them

ROFL

Fair enough. Sorry they wasted your time. I doubt they intended to waste your time intentionally as it wasted theirs as well. I suppose it's possible in a bad job market they've had luck with this strategy? Who knows..

I have no doubts that they didn't intend to waste my time. But when a person asks twice what the pay range is and the response is "your minimum is within our range" then I expect an offer no less than the minimum you told me was within your range.

If you're an external hire, it's possible they moved an internal candidate into that slot and you are now applying for their job (PJM1 vs. PJM2) for example. If you really want to work for that company, by all means counter offer them.

Lead them. I would love to accept the position. However, I can only do so at a salary of $... If this sounds reasonable to you, when can I start?

Maybe your minimum was in their range of what they would pay.... But just like anything in life they are trying to get you a little cheaper.. Counter.. If not then go about your business.

I would not counter. I'd just say no. If they asked why, I'd tell them the obvious: you assholes wasted my time.

I didn't discuss wages until the offer was on the table. I wanted my job for the job. Turns out that strategy paid because entry level was great and the benefits are outstanding.

This

You already resent the low ball offer. If you take their offer you'll loath the job in 6 months.

You are in control at this point. Counter with or above your minimum but don't settle for any less. They opened the door with a 10% flux counter 10% higher.

One thing I've learned is not to judge a company by their HR department... well, I guess unless you're looking for a job in HR.

Did you ever talk with the hiring manager? I'd consider following up with them directly or if you didn't, asking if you can talk with them because you have some questions... and then get a vibe whether that person is impressed and really wants you around and then go from there, screw the HR tactics.

pretty much this.

As plenty others have mentioned, this is the only time you have the upper hand.

And think about this......if they're going to dick around with you this much as an external hire, how do you think they will be dealing with you come performance review time or promotion time? (even lower lowball)

If you like the job and the opportunity/benefits, etc.....I'd let 'em know you're considering another offer, and you cant really take anything less than 5-8% over the minimum you listed.

While everyone else is blowing sunshine and kisses to you, let me give you a different perspective...

1) Maybe to them it seemed it was all about the money to you, and that isn't what they are looking for in a team member. People who are all about the money rarely hang around long enough for the employer to recoup the investment they make in you.

2)Maybe they had someone who was just as qualified as you and would accept the lesser salary. With that in their pocket, they just decided to see if you would accept the lesser amount.

Either way....get over it and move on. Making it personal and being angry won't help you with the next job search/interview.

I had 2 interviews with the hiring manager. As I understand things, they were very interested in my skill set. Again, what miffs me is being told twice that my minimum was within range and then getting an offer well below. That comes out to men it's out of range or you aren't wanting to pay it.

they could be trying to get me cheap but then again they may be offering the max in which that means my minimum was never within range and they did indeed waste everyone's time.

Number 2 could be possible, I don't know. That being said, #1 is pure bullshit. You don't ask someone what their minimum acceptable salary is, call them in for multiple interviews, tell them their minimum is within range then come off with this "well, we want people who aren't just interested in money so we will offer you well below what you said your minimum acceptable salary is even though we told you twice that it was within our range. Sorry, we were just kidding". It's unprofessional to say they least.

I don't get this comment.....in the interview process no one has the upper hand unless of course they were chasing him, which I don't see that mentioned.

1. Don't make it personal. You'll likely make a better decision if you keep your head clear about the situation.

2. It costs you nothing to take a shot at negotiation. If they don't budge then you walk away.

3. If you do decide to negotiate, consider what form of compensation is acceptable to you. Is it just money? Maybe get additional vacation.

1. I am taking a few days before I decide to keep the personal aspect out of it.

2. I know

3. Do you know anyone that has actually done this?

This is true. During my last review I found out that according to my HR's salary evaluation software I was making 40% more than I should.... but I still got a raise because my manager knows its BS.

Your looking at it all wrong....you think they are just out to screw you and get you cheaply.

I'm not sure how many job search's you have done, but what they did is exactly the norm these days, especially in a job market where good candidates are plentiful.

ah, the "be lucky they even offered you that much" routine. Got it.

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Since I can't start threads anymore

Since I've never stayed in a job longer than 3 years I have some experience here. In my current job they came in shy of what I was asking by about 5% I asked for a signing bonus (less than the 5%) and extra vacation. They gave it to me.

Another time an offer came in less than I had hoped, but I still wanted the position. I discovered the new company's health insurance was much more costly than my current. I detalied these costs to them and asked them to raise the offer to compensate. They did. I kept the insurance for a couple months then terminated it and went on my wifes while keeping the extra $.

One thing I always try to do is give them a reason. My current company matches 401k this much, health insurance costs more, longer commute and more gas money... makes it not worth it to take this offer even though I like the position.

I worked with people that squeezed out an extra week of vacation, which for my company (at that time) was normally 2 weeks for the first year (so they had 3). After you were at the company for 3 years it got bumped up anyway, so the advantage was really only for 2 years, but still worth it to the people that did it.

I'll give you an example of something I did once. I accepted a salaried position that did not pay OT. It was a bit of BS because there were many positions within the department that did. So I told them I would only be interested in paid overtime. I really never thought it would work, but I was young and thought I was hot shit. They accepted though. Over 4 years of working there I probably racked up about $30k in OT, which turned into $7,500 of additional salary per year.

You know the company and the industry better than I do, so use your best judgment. I would personally start with money and if they really dig in on that, give them an opportunity to prove they want you. "I understand the monetary restrictions on the position, but I'm very interested in the company and this position so here are some other ideas I had."

Where the **** is this place you speak of? ROFL

From the low self-esteem file

All of these are good points...especially the personal part. Having an edge or being wary/overly cautious on your next interview could cost you the one that pays you want you want.

And yes Pete.....I know several very savvy negotiators who realize that salary is just one aspect of a job and should never be a focal point. You could come out ahead negotiating any of the following:

1) More vacation
2) Telecommuting options/flex schedule
3) If a publicly held company, stock options (if not already offered)
4) Performance Bonus (or a bigger bonus if one is already on the table)
5) Wardrobe allowance (some places that require you to wear a business suit will negotiate that)
6) Commuting reimbursement (depending on how far you drive)
7) Guaranteed Severance Package (in case they decide on a layoff or you just don't work out)
8) An office...or that really nice office
9) Tuition reimbursement...in case you go for that Master's or P.H.D
10) Daycare reimbursement (if you have kids)
11) Cell phone reimbursement

Those are just some of the things that you can negotiate for that offset taking a lower salary. There are so many other things that end up being important to people at different times...like "early buyout" for retirement, scholarships for family members, etc.

Look beyond "what I am worth" to "what makes sense for me at this time in my life"

Yeah.....starting to get a better picture here.

I got a good chuckle out of that....:clap:

10 percent deduction for blaming the umps during the interview

I live and work in a mid-sized college town in the South. Good candidates are out there in good supply, especially when you offer a decent salary, good benefits, and a positive work environment that promotes personal and professional growth.

Work for a company that doesn't give you those and yes good candidates will be in short supply.

Speculating on what on that might be and what kind of company would be interested in it just made me laugh a little.

You can get that back other ways. Sign on bonus, more vacation time, higher employer match for your 401k (you can own them on this one) or just a straight up bottom line if you think they'll take it from you.

Put it this way... I am almost as good at computers and IT work as you are at sucking Obama's cock sack every day.

So...you're not good at it?
Probably why they're dicking you around.

I tend to be very firm in negotiations.

If you are serious about your minimum than you have to ask yourself if you WANT the job, if you NEED the job and what your options will be if you decline.


If you like the prospects of the position, future earnings and growth potential then counter with your number.

If they don't make that number, thank them in a professional manner and politely decline. No need to burn bridges and you never know what the future will hold.

Put me in this camp. Drives me ****ing nuts how employers just don't say up front what the goddamn job pays, they love to throw around statements like "competitive pay" which in my mind translates to "we're going to try to **** you just like all the rest of the employers out there".

1. Agree.
2. This is a negotiation. They mentioned a range twice and opened with an offer.
3. Using vacation as a bargaining chip has drawbacks. An extra week becomes an obvious perk to other employees which doesn't always sit well. If you negotiate other compensation it’s best to agree on a perk that's only known to you, your boss, HR and payroll.

If they had someone with a comparable skill set who is willing to settle for less pay they would have the job.
If you only interviewed with HR and not your potential supervisor they’re not concerned with a good fit, they want the skill set.

I've been involved with a fair amount of these negotiations from the employer side. A lot of times recruiters are trying to fill a job, but the applicants are a little more qualified and wanting more money than was initially envisioned. The role is "approved" for that "initially envisioned" amount, and additional needs approval. If you are near the top of what they have approved, they may be anticipating a counter and undercut it some. It's all a game. Continue being straight forward about what you are looking for and don't settle for less.

I'm often the voice of the employer in these matters, but in this case the employer is being kind of skanky. They asked you your minimum acceptable amount and you told them. If that was above their range they should have eliminated you from consideration or told you that it was above their range immediately.

I think it's a red flag about the type of employer that they are.

I don't think it means "be lucky you got an offer," but it does mean there's a chance you were the winner of an incredibly close race (with possibly a internal candidate or someone who is otherwise just as qualified/experienced/etc.), which is just supply and demand, not "they're trying to sodomize you."

I'd guess it was a combination of supply & demand and bad/lazy HR. Talk to the hiring manager, maybe HR again, be straight with them when it comes to your interest level and minimum acceptable salary, and hope they do the same.

That was my first thought as well. If they are dicking him around right out of the gate, I have a feeling it's not the last time they would try to pull something. They sound like a low test outfit and I would keep looking.

I doubt they're actively trying to dick him around. If they were, they'd hide it better. Like trying to include the employer portion of SS/Medicare in his gross wages number or something like that.

I'd bet this is a case of laziness/unprofessionalism. Hiring manager didn't know what the range was, didn't bother to approve it or some dumb shit.

I don't handle unprofessionalism very well so that would irk me pretty good, but I would be hesitant to assume shady intentions.

I've done a lot of hiring and made a lot of offers. When a lot people state their "minimum acceptable", they often mean "what they want". I have had a lot of people over the years state their minimum, and when I offer less, they gladly accept. Also, "within range" means a lot of different thing to different people. Again, a lot of people are stating what they want instead of the minimum they will accept. So if I offer 10% less than "what they want", i may still be "within range". They may very well be trying to lowball you. However, what they are offering may be what the job pays. You have every right to go back to the company and let them know (again) what the minimum you can accept is. In my opinion, if you came back with a higher offer (10% more that you said was the minimum), I would politely decline and move on. It's like if you are selling your house and someone comes in with a lowball offer. Do you tell them, "The price is $X and we won't take a lower offer"? Or do you tell them, "The price was $X, but now the price is $X+10%"? I don't think you get anywhere adding 10% to your original minimum. But, like I said, you have every right to remind them that you have a minimum and their offer is lower than that.

If that's "what the job pays" the JUST ****ING SAY SO FROM THE BEGINNING instead of jerking people's chains.

Justin bieber would egg their mansion

This shit is unacceptable

Counter offering with something higher will likely just get the offer rescinded.

Plainly state, X is my minimum, Y is my preferred. If you can't meet X, then I will have to decline the offer and move on.

Again, people often overstate what they are willing to accept. In this case, Pete may not have done that. In many cases, people do. If people would be honest in what they are willing to accept, employers would be more up front in what the job pays.

The problem may be that Pete isn't worth what he thinks he is (in the minds of the employers). Maybe the job pays $80K-$100K. Pete says he needs $95K minimum. Employers thinks, ok, we're in that range. After 2 interviews, they like Pete, but don't think he's worth $95K. His skill set and experience don't justify it. They feel he is worth $80K, but understand he wants more, so they offer $85K. Does that make them the bad guys because they didn't hit his magic number?

It makes them jerkoffs for stating it once, following up a second time and confirming the number, and then changing terms the third time around.

Hey, if you run your hiring like a used car dealership and it works for you, great. It's second rate bullshit and your rep will get around eventually. I prefer to state my terms, you state yours and we can either agree or tell each other to **** off without wasting time.

Did you even read the second paragraph? Do you think every employer has a final salary number in mind before the interview process even starts? If it was true that the job was going to pay $85K, come hell or high water, and Pete was asking $95K as a minimum, then it was bullshit that they wasted his time. But that might not have been what happened.

I will say that it would have been better if they had stated at the beginning, "We may not be able to hit that number exactly, but we will be in the ballpark."

I might of missed it, but is this an internal posting?

From my experience when switching jobs or getting a new one with a new company that there are two types. Ones that try and get the best talent and honest, and cheap skates. It is especially bad if they are doing it to people with experience in the field. Straight out of college recruits, that is fine.

I would counter like the others have said with your minimum that you would have worked for. If they decline, thank them for their time and move on. Then report their strategies online to others if you really think they are being scandalous.



If their HR lied and did this during an interview, what makes you think they will not hit you with a salary decrease later on. IMO when HR is shady like this run away. Just red flags to me from the way you described it. Companies generally know what they are paying, then will overpay for talent to get them. If they tell you one thing then change it:
A, they either have a worse option that they can get for the 10% less and are seeing if they can get you for it.
B, strung you along to see if you would bite.
C, HR and hiring manager are not talking to each other.

On 3. Get it in writing and approved by the CFO. If not it is go **** yourself when compensation is due. This is from personal experience.

I always talk benefits/salary/perks all the way to the point when I accept the offer. I always get more stuff. It's the only time you have any leverage.

I've had a few companies where we agree on a parameter of money before the interview process starts. Then at the end they offer me something below that parameter. I tell them no thanks. They ALWAYS come back with more. But, at that point I no longer trust them.

I'm at the point in my career that I get to chose who I work for, just not going to work for people trying to save a nickle right at the start of our relationship. I'd move on Pete.