Dorsey vs Pioli, What Say You Now?
 

It's been a rather interesting couple of weeks. I think it started with the Houston situation where a bunch of you folks felt that Dorsey was a doofus because he didn't lock Houston up last year. Then, I heard, Dorsey sucked because he overpaid Bowe. Then, at least initially, the sky was falling because he didn't wrap up Hudson last year. Then, he had the audacity to sign Mauga and Avant.

Now, we hear that guys are cutting their salaries in order to play for (can you believe it) the Chiefs!

Wasn't much of that happening back when Scooter was chasing candy wrappers, shutting blinds and placing the entire organization on Matt Cassel's rather narrow shoulders.

So, I ask, what say you now? (This is where you can actually say GOOD things about the guys running this outfit now.)

The only thing that matter is if the Chiefs win.

Dorsey made the playoffs

Dorsey > Pioli
Reid > Haley
Alex Smith > Cassel

Pioli is an ahole who angers all the staff by being a control freak and an arrogant douche but I honestly think he would have gave Houston what he wanted and there would have a tag for Hudson. With that being said I rather have Dorsey. Scott is hated in the NFL circles that matter according to almost every article that mentions him.

Dorsey is better than the guy who dropped an atom bomb on arrowhead.

Only fans die in the parking lot under Dorsey. Players are safe.

1-0 Dorsey.

meaningless bullshit

Very cold......(but kinda clever). I like.

Dorsey 20-14 first 2 years
Pioli 14-18 first 2 years

Talk to me after the draft.

This shouldn't even be a question. Scott Pioli is a putrid pile of steaming shit of a man. **** him.

It's not even close IMO.

There was just something with Pioli and that era. It was just darker....no hope. Seemed like nobody wanted o be part of the franchise...

Dorsey all the way.

As humans, there's no question who the better man is.

Sweet Daddy, I can't talk to you now???

Actually, Scooter wasn't exactly a draft guru, and so far Dorsey hasn't exactly pulled rabbits outa hats either. However, it's probably too early to bag on Dorsey's picks as they haven't been in the league very long. So, by my tally, verdict is still going to be out on Dorsey's drafting abilities for at least a couple more years.

We need to set the bar much, much higher than Pioli. Better than worst is not necessarily good.

Now we know why Peeholi was tighter than a gnats ass with the money.

Reminds me of a Scooter anecdote. Remember when the Monet Water Lily exhibition was at The Nelson (art gallery) in KC (I'd bet NONE of you do....oh well)? Anyway, the day before the draft when Scooter was first here, the Chiefs people called The Nelson people and asked them to clear out the exhibition for a bit so that one of their guys could view it without the public rabble in sight. Yup, you guessed it. The next day Scooter had the exhibit all to his lonesome self. Pioli may have lacked some things, but ego wasn't one of them. Sheesh.

They both have their drafting issues.

Peeholi always struck me as an insecure type and afraid to commit, someone who had to be cattle-prodded in to a selection.

Dorsey loves his "Dianetics" software or whatever the **** you call it, and would probably be better served if Reid would just exit the process altogether. We all know Andy is scared to all holy hell death of a collapsing O-line, and would probably feed Saccopoo cheese steaks and pudding pops until he died to bring him on-board as an adviser to the draft.

I really won't miss Reid when he is gone.

Sounds about right for that piece of shit.

I don't think even at Dorsey's perceived worst did anybody ever say that he was worse than Pioli.

LMAO

I love the idea of Dorsey being a scientologist. I think it's hilarious for some reason. Don't know why.

I have not read that.

Sweet Daddy, you're on a roll tonite. "...feed Saccopoo cheese steaks and pudding pops until he died to bring him on board as an advisor to the draft"

That's gonna be hard to top, my friend!

Fat scott couldn't hire a good coach to save his life.

Ridiculous question. Dorsey has been no better than average, but by comparison he looks like Branch Rickey to Pioli. Any non-Millen GM does.

Can't say it, can you Hamas? Ok, I'll help. Repeat after me: Overall, Dorsey has done a good job....especially when you consider the putrid culture that he had to remove/replace courtesy of Mr Scooter.

There now, that didn't hurt, did it?!?!?!?!

Dorsey can't call Brady "Tommy"

His #1 overall pick is wandering towards Brian Jozwiak territory, Dee Ford had a shit first year, and he gave up two second rounders and 17 million/year for Alex Smith who is asked to "not lose" games.

I believe his entire 2013/4 FA class has already been cut or is no longer on the team and he was unable to secure extensions with the two young, cost-controlled players whose salaries were up in this offseason, one of whom was signed by a division rival.

You'll find no bigger fan of Jeremy Maclin than me. If the search function on here worked you could find posts of me advocating for the Chiefs drafting him at #3 overall in 2009, but I remain unconvinced that Alex Smith can make use of his talent.

I'm also seriously concerned about the continued decline of the offensive line, and I think that people are foolishly conflating our pass ranking with great secondary play when most of it, I believe, was due to the pressure exerted on the QB by Hali, Poe, and Houston.

The Chiefs under Dorsey have gotten much better than the 2-14 season that got us the #1 overall pick in the first ever draft that had no franchise QB available.

Coaching staff is night and day better.

Dorsey is thinking about developing a roster and managing the salary cap 24 hours a day. Who are we to pretend we know more than he does ????

He has a plan for Houston and I guarantee you he will be playing in a chiefs uniform from game one . If he's not then we will be handsomely compensated.

If Houston DOES elect to sit 9 games we will see Dee Ford make him realize everybody can be replaced. Houston won't sniff 22 sacks again in his career .

Do you think Houston would have had 22 sacks if he wasn't playing for a contract anyway ?

Hudson is replaceable.

I think Dorsey is going to have this team built for the long run just like the Packers. It takes more than 2-3 years . It really takes 5-6.

So far I'm all in.

Spot on, Hamas. Every last word.

I don't see much happening that I wouldn't credit to Reid more than Dorsey. I don't dislike the guy, but so far he hasn't made much of an impression either way.

His #1 draft pick was acknowledged by just about everyone as the highest rated guy in that draft. He did meh at RT and then got hurt to where he couldn't work out much. Granted, his play at LT was worse than meh. BUT, you've gotta admit it's still a bit early to write him off as Brian Joswiak (nice recall BTW).

As per Dee Ford, well, again, it's early, but I'd agree that early indications are well, not super good. NONETHELESS, I doubt that you, in your wisest moment, would suggest that after a couple of drafts Dorsey is horrible at it. Just WAY too early.

As per signing Houston/Hudson, good heavens, it takes someone to agree to stuff to get a contract done. Looks to me like the H&H boys came prepared to try the free agent market. Hard to blame Dorsey on that.

Oh well, I kinda like Dorsey (Lord knows he's WAY better than what we had). Apparently, you're not a fan. I guess we'll just have to agree to my way of thinking! :D

This thread is ****ing stupid just because of that. Who on earth ever said Dorsey was worse than ****hole? No one. That doesn't make him good. It makes him not the absolute worst. He's off to a strong start this offseason. Better late than never. That doesn't equate to anything. It's too early to judge. Next offseason we'll have our first opportunity to really sit down and appraise his talent. Drafts, team building, contract structuring etc. It takes time to take a 2-14 team (with 6 or 8 pro-bowlers) anywhere.

How is this even a question?


Pioli is a ****ing piece of shit.

It takes time?

He turned around the team and culture immediately

And he kept shoving Cassel down our ****ing throats.



**** him and everything he stands for.

He did?

ROFL He didn't turn around the team. GTFO he turned the culture for sure. Those pro bowlers started playing again. That 2-14 team was the most talented "worst" team in NFL history.

Floppy, Floppy, Floppy, you're taking this stupid question way too literally. The point of the thread was to allow some of you boys to actually say something good about Dorsey. Perhaps I, in a most unusual moment, misstated the title of the thread and that generated said stupid comments. So rip me a new one.

Nonetheless, I forgive.

Now, let's move on and be thankful that we have Mr Mediocre (your words?) running this thing rather than Scooter.

Good enough for me. Dorsey has done some great things since coming here. JC extension being up there. Who finds role players off of scrap heaps better? I can go on. I've been impressed with numerous things he's done. Have always said so!

No. They're not my words. I never said he was mediocre. I just said Pioli was complete shit. He still has plenty to prove.

Pioli was most of people Here's pick. Dorsey was too. I've never beat Clark up for that. He's trying!

I don't see them as being related.

The only thing that matters is the job Dorsey is doing/has done.

This offseason:
1) Turds have been cut.
2) Contracts restructured.
3) Only true loss is Hudson.
4) Actually added a significant talent in FA.

So far, so good. When FA is over and it's draft time we'll be better able to grade the 1st 1/3rd of his job...

Both are 0-1 in the only thing that matters.

You clearly don't have a clue how free agency is supposed to work if you think that

I get that. But like i mentioned earlier, Dorsey turned the culture around. Eventually, That will lead to more wins and playoff wins especially. I expect this team to compete for the playoffs every year now. I never got that feeling under Pioli, except for one year.

It's not hard to see a team lose more than it gains.

Hopefully this offseason ends like it started and we change all that...

I don't know about Dorsey but the players seem to love playing for Reid...

Huge upgrades: QB (even though I don't like Smith), RB depth, WR depth, TE, 2 safeties, Gaines (#2 or nickel),
Good replacement: #1 corner, Kicker, KR/PR
Adequate depth: DE, nickel/dime CB,

Downgrades: OL

Top 3 defense even while missing 2 pro bowlers and tons of injuries to our secondary. We have a very deep running game. Could be the best receiving corps we've had in years, which is even deeper because we have TE targets and a utility option in DAT. And much as we may downplay it, last year we had to contend with 2 very surprising subtractions to the OL in Stephenson and Allen. Even our special teams was a surprise improvement, as Santos and DAT were upgrades over who they replaced.

We've fallen short on OL and ILB. That's it. I'm not crazy about the QB but I still think that was more Reid/Hunt's call. And while I hated the first year's cap management, they've managed the cap extraordinarily well the last 2 years, including excellent moves last year that may have gifted us 4 draft picks. Because of that, after we get past this year, our cap looks really good.

We haven't done anything sexy. But this team has gotten better by a lot across the board.

This is a laughable question. Scooter is a goddamn natural disaster.

Dorsey has been extremely impressive this offseason.

No it isn't. Coaches wanting not wanting be in our organization and FA not considering us is not bullshit. Did you see what we had for coaches?

Dorsey and Reid have totally turned the Chiefs in the right direction.

I agree with most of you. There really isn't much of a debate here.

The Chiefs were a friggin dumpster fire when they took over. I had no hope at all. Now we actually have a team that plays hard and smart. A team that players want to be on!

These guys have a long way to go to build the Chiefs in to a Superbowl contender, but the first two years have been exactly what the franchise needed. I have positive feelings about our beloved Chiefs for the first time in about a decade now.

20-12 vs. 9-23

Duh

I actually don't think the Chiefs have a long way to go, if we're talking about a supporting cast to support the QB. 1 or 2 upgrades at OL and this is an excellent supporting cast for QB.

So again, I don't think Smith was really Dorsey's call. But if we're talking about building a team around the QB... if you told someone you'd have to build a top defense, an elite running game, and give him a quality TE target, I think most would say that's about right. If they upgrade the OL to average, in my opinion, there's no excuse for Smith not to take this team far.

We would go entire quarters without moving the ball past midfield under Haley/Pioli.

Reid scripts up an opening drive TD more often than not

How could you claim that they managed the cap excellently with a straight face? They had to eat dead money on the deals with Bowe, Mays, and Walker, the Mauga signing was horrible, and DeVito is wildly overpaid.

Also, lumping "OL" in as a single position is disingenuous. The Chiefs are worse at every single position on the OL than they were in 2013. Every single one.

Dorsey has proven he can build a mediocre team. He hasn't yet proven he can build a good one.

Dorsey seems nice

Precisely. Let's revisit this topic in 2yrs.;)

Has nothing to do with Dorsey. Everybody knows reid's a pretty good coach.

When I read dreck about how "Dorsey transformed the culture", it makes me chuckle. I'm sure he's a nice, competent fellow, but it's pretty easy to have people in the workplace rave about you when the guy you replaced ran the workplace like 1973 East Berlin.

I said I didn't like their cap management year 1 which includes bowe and devito. Nitpicking over about 10m for 3 players for 1 year of play plus dead money to cut? That's the definition of picky considering they shed well over 50m in contracts the past 2 years.

While everyone insisted we sign Schwartz, Albert plus add desean and Byrd, the Chiefs added I think less than 15m in contracts minus Alex Smith. It helped clean our cap big time and probably landed us 4 comp picks. This year, he's set to shed a lot of bad contracts without taking nearly the massive hit in dead money that was expected.

If you're going position by position, fine. We upgraded at two safety spots, 2 corner, DE, 2 rb, Fb, te, k, kr/pr, wr 1, possibly wr 2 (wilson) , utility wr, qb. We have true depth at almost all of these positions.

We downgraded at center (maybe), left tackle, and right guard (maybe). We stayed flat at olb and punter, replaced a good 1 cb with a good 1cb. We didn't add depth at olb, nt, or OL.

The plusses outweigh the minuses by a ton. And that's including depth. That's not even including special teams.

/thread

nice write-up.

I just ate a tuna sandwich I found on the bus....

Is SR back? He's nice.

Who cares how "dead money" they have to eat? The team went from utter dogshit to respectable overnight.

The failure of the offensive line is Pioli's fault. He spent two 2nd's and two 3rd's, which resulted in 3 out 4 players that been average at best, which is probably generous.

Signing Albert would have been a momentous mistake, Schwartz played in two games and Asamoah is garbage.

And LOL at Mauga being a horrible signing. Good ****ing Christ on a lollipop, no team can have superstars at every position.

Carl would be on vacation in Europe

Mauga's a horrible signing because they paid a guy who is practice squad fodder $8 million over three years. A dollar over the vet minimum is an overpay for that guy.

The failure of the OL is not Pioli's fault. Hell, he acquired the only OL we had worth a damn. Dorsey spent the #1 overall pick on a soft bitch from a MAC school. If Fisher was a 4th rounder, he would have already been cut. Allen and Asamoah weren't much, but they were a hell of a lot better than the trash we walked out at guard, and tackle, last year.

And you should care about dead money because every dollar you blow on a dead contract is a dollar you can't roll over.

This is not true at all. I read that several times this offseason.

I believe Discuss Thrower and ReeRun were both on that wagon.

You did not upgrade Eric Berry's spot. They added depth to the spot. They also did not upgrade DE. Allen Bailey was already here. Mike DeVito added little to nothing. The GM does not get credit when the young talent that was already here improved.

The Chiefs should have improved a lot. They spent a lot of money and had the #1 overall pick.

They certainly have not improved to the extent one should deem Dorsey's job as praiseworthy given all the assets they've spent to this point.

Dorsey is now the messiah because Tamba is Tamba and maclin got super paid ?

Calm down people they haven't done shit yet

Well that and he has won 20 games in 2 years after inheriting a 2-14 team.

Playoffs ... Epic playoff collapse that will live on forever as the standard for bedshitting

Pioli and Haley won the division and lost at home at least to save people gas money

I know, I know, Dorsey blew that huge lead after 5 starters got hurt etc....

Aside from injury Reid is to blame for that loss ultimately and the fact is, Dorsey didn't hire Reid so that argument is just dumb.

Our starters got removed by cocksmack refs lol

Still though, ShowMe !

2008 AFC West 4th 2 14
2009 AFC West 4th 4 12
2010 AFC West 1st 10 6
2011 AFC West 4th 7 9
2012 AFC West 4th 2 14
2013 AFC West 2nd 11 5
2014 AFC West 2nd 9 7

Look at the previous 5 years and tell me that the current management team is not doing a good job.

Yeah, it aint perfect, but two winning seasons to start out is a hell of a lot better than what was going on in KC before.

With a healthy dj and berry, this is an elite defense and they did it against a brutal schedule. We have an elite running game. Good playmakers in kelce and DAT. Excellent special teams. Quality depth (a rarity for kc). This year, we look like we will also improve at wr.

Two years ago, we made the playoffs and were called a fluke because of the schedule. Last year, we went over. 500 despite devastating losses on defense and OL against a brutal schedule. This year, we are adding maclin and have 11 picks in the draft. I guess I find it a little narrow minded to say we haven't improved just because 1 or 2 positions haven't improved.

Stamp it on your foreheads: better than bad does not equal good.

Pioli inherited the best players when they were young, Dorsey inherited the best players when they were in the prime. Of course Andy Reid is best coach we have since Marty, that makes up the true difference.

IMO this team IS good!! Winning more games than you loose = good.

2013: 11-5, The Chiefs did a total 180 and made the playoffs after one of the worst seasons I can remember.

2014: 9-7, Although they had a worse record and didn't make the playoffs, I would argue that the team improved quite a bit. Do you realize that the Chiefs beat both of the teams that played in the SB?

Hate all you want. THE CHIEFS ARE A REAL NFL TEAM AGAIN.

We can legitimately be a top 3 defense. We have an elite running game. This year, we have receiving targets.

I don't think we go to the next level because of our qb. But our supporting cast if we so much as bring our OL to average, could be really damn good this year.

On every Chief fans gravestone.

Mauga's fine. 2014 was essentially his rookie year. If the Chiefs can draft his replacement, he's gone next year. It's all good.

What?

He spent a high 3rd rounder on Asamoah, a high 2nd on Hudson, a high 2nd on Allen and 3rd on Stephenson, one pick before Russell Wilson.

:rolleyes:

Hudson panned out, the other three are extremely questionable. He spent valuable assets on positions that should be no-brainers but failed.

I have no idea how could even state that it's not Pioli's fault.

Oh, come on. Fisher was the #1 tackle on everyone's board. He's outperformed Joekel and Lane Johnson.

Hindsight is always 20/20 but the Chiefs made the logical decision. Draft a potential 10 year Left Tackle or roll the dice on an oft-injured, aging Brandon Albert. Fisher still has three years to prove himself and Albert lived up to his injured billing.

Please, be reasonable.

Allen was still on the team but like Derrick Johnson and Mike DeVito, was lost early, as was Eric Berry.

Tell me, which team has so much depth that they can replace their starting LG, starting RT, starting DE and All Pro ILB, within the first game, mind you, and still win 9 games?

I have said for a decade that the Salary Cap is a Myth. It's a Myth. The best teams, every stinking year, are up against the cap, yet still sign players.

Finally, FINALLY, the Chiefs are playing that game. Dorsey has an approximate $76 MILLION free next year and even more in 2017. A few million here and there aren't going to make the Chiefs suffer.