Was this a fake bubble screen?
 

Keep in mind that they ran multiple bubble screens successfully earlier in the game.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/201412...3425&tab=recap

No.

Alex never even looked at DAT.

I say "no".

Side note....sure would be nice if they would reduce the number of times i had to watch the commercial(s) before viewing the video(s).

So DAT stopping and waiting for a pass and Kelce slowly going into his route doesn't give you the idea of it being a bubble screen?

The Raiders sure looked like they were playing it like one.

Zero Chiefs players screen blocking. Wilson and DAT on both sides running a quick hitch. Bowe and Kelce running slants. Charles fakes draw up the middle.

The defense drops 3 DBs 10+ yards deep into coverage.

Nope.

Did you really just start another thread based on an argument you were having with fish in another thread that you somehow felt stupidly compelled to start?

Yes, I'll also start a thread asking if Charles Woodson is covering Wilson on that same play because that's what fish told me.

fake or play design?

Dat was there to bring the defender up and help clear out the slant for Kelce

Kelce was the 1st option

maybe DaT was the 2nd option if the defender didn't come up

we probably won't ever know

Play design was to make the defense think bubble screen and it worked. Smith mentions it in his post game interview on how they set them up to make that play successful.

similar to running the quick sweep to DaT and then later faking it and then giving the ball to Charles

defense has to honor a successful play, that can set up other plays

Maybe I should reword the question to… Was this play designed to make the defense think bubble screen?

Dropping 3 DBs back into deep coverage isn't a defense against a bubble screen. You've completely ignored that point....

i'm not sure what difference it makes.

The play was designed to force the defender on that side to choose between coming up for DaT or jumping inside for Kelce. Both the slant and WR screen demand that defenders make quick decision and charge hard to break the play up. On the slant the defender has to beat the WR to a spot. On the screen the defender has to come forward and get to the WR before a blocker gets in the way.

By showing both in the same area Reid has made defending it even more difficult. If the defender even hesitates in deciding which way to go it's probably already too late.

I'm keying the RT on that, and he down blocks. I'd have to see what he does on the actual bubble screens, but I'd bet it's the same action, or the RT cuts.

http://i.imgur.com/U9oEs3T.jpg

What 3 DBs are you talking about? I see 1 DB beyond 10 yards of the LOS, another DB and LB within 10 yards of it.

That's meaningless.

You have no idea what those defensive guys are keying.

Can you count to 11? There's another DB off the screen he's so far deep.

The safety was deep and out of that picture, but judging by his late reaction on making a move towards Kelce, he was keyed in on DAT as well.

Why would a safety be deep and out of the picture if they were supposedly expecting a screen pass?

In real time I'd say no. I guess it's possible though. You can kind of see it. Maybe they are faking a play where Kelce blocks #25, the other receiver gets the ball down low and makes one guy miss, follows Kelce down the sideline and into the end zone.

Im not sure what you are trying to prove with this thread.

Whatever it is, its wrong, since your whole basis is wrong.

But the other 2 DBs in the picture are not deep and backpedaling.

I don't know if you can call it a bubble screen though when there are only two offensive and two defensive players involved. I tend to think of a bubble screen as a play designed to get +1 offensive player in specific parts of the field so he has potentially great blocking after the catch.

There are 5 DBs on the field for Oakland in nickel coverage. Woodson, Brown, Hayden, Carrie, and Ross. Woodson and Carrie are playing press man coverage at the line. Brown and Hayden are both way off the line. Ross is about 20 yards deep in the middle of the field. When the ball is snapped, Brown sits tight 7yds deep in coverage, Hayden starts backpedaling, and even Burris, the LB drops 10 yards deep in coverage. Ross remains so deep he's completely off the screen.

There's no indication that the Raiders were expecting a screen pass. Other than Woodson and Carrie, the rest of the DBs and and even a LB are dropping back in coverage. At the time the ball is released, there are 3DBs and 1 LB at least 7yds off the line of scrimmage. That's just not screen pass coverage.

http://i62.tinypic.com/2rrvrzq.jpg

Here's the instant the ball was released. 2 of the DBs aren't even visible on the screen.

Whatever the case, it was definitely set up successfully by the prior bubble screens that they ran earlier in the game.

http://i.imgur.com/62hB1fc.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/LyDpOSX.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/FeNziaF.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/h4Ff8Lx.jpg

Charles was in the backfield and he didn't get the ball... FAKE RUN!!!

LMAO

Smith faked the hand off and the line looked like it was showing run action.

This is very important and requires an entire thread devoted to it.

Lol nice

The Charles run up the middle threat keeps the DE and LB close to the middle. That holds them for a split so when Kelce angles toward the middle the throwing lane is clear and gives some extra space for Kelce to go after the catch.

They definitely gave the Raiders the look of a bubble screen to hopefully suck the linebacker down and hold the corner to defend the screen and open up the underside of Kelce.

Sorter, where did you get the Jimmy Raye point of view of that play?

LMAO

You seem funny.

Mo Carthon lent it to me.



He's a nice guy.

He's not arguing that they expected one, he's arguing that they reacted as if they believed it was one. As clearly intended.

LMAO

5 yards is deep for Alex Smith.

Thank you.

The Chiefs run many different variations of the bubble screen/slant concept. It's just a route combination that forces a defender to choose who to key on. If the defender picks DAT here then it leaves a passing lane for Kelce. If the defender stays off, then DAT makes the catch and Kelce is now in position to block downfield. We run this play every single game, it just isn't always that same formation or personnel.

It's not really a "fake" bubble screen. It's similar to the read option. The defender chooses who is going to keep the ball. If the QB keeps the ball do we call this a "fake" handoff? No, because that's not what it is. It's the QB reading the edge defender and he breaks down the line rather than staying outside contain.

Is this the play with the screen/ read option built in? That was a strange play the dumb announcers didnt even comment on it.

This.

They do it all the time. its just to give extra space (since the defender wouldn't actually be on the TE any way, he would just be closer to him)