As a QB prospect coming out of college, Geno Smith is greater than...?
 

Poll forthcoming.

Remember, we're talking about these players as prospects. I don't care what has happened to Jay Cutler or Brady Quinn or Aaron Rodgers. If you think those QBs had more to work with as potential pros, then check them off.

Damon Huard.


What do I win?

Now among the HOFers at the start of their career I'd say Brett Favre. The guy was a turnover machine in his early years.

Todd Marinovich
John Skelton
JaWalrus Russell
Ryan Leaf
Matt Leinart
Brady Quinn
Tyler Thigpen
Todd Blackledge
All the McCown's and McNown's
Charlie Whitehurst
Bubby Brister
Stan Humphries
Brandon Wheedon

Also, I would like to dedicate this thread to scho63.

There may be more on the way in the next weeks :thumb:

GENO IS TEH GOAT PROSPECT EVAR

KC Native made some good selections, jesus.

One thing that I think will get overlooked in this poll is Matt Ryan. Coming out of college, my God that dude had some question marks that were consistently giving birth to baby question marks, imo. My goodness he threw a lot of INTs his Senior season. If you were to evaluate and compare the two, by looking exclusively at stats, I don't know how Geno (and many other of these other guys) couldn't be regarded as a better prospect. And I know, I know...we aren't supposed to make our choices in this poll due to just stats. Just saying, statistically speaking, Matt was shaky as hell and Geno is not given near the credit he deserves considering the numbers he put up and some of the games in which he put up those numbers, including his historic comp/attempts statline vs. LSU's notoriously tough defense in '11, vs. Clemson in the Orange Bowl '11, Baylor's shitty defense, but amazing stats nevertheless in '12, etc.)

To be honest, I thought the Falcons were smart to take a chance and attempt to get their guy and were obviously smart in doing so, for things haven't worked out too badly for the Ryan-led Falcons so far, but at the time, I didn't think the chances of him succeeding were very high, let alone succeeding as early as he did.

I am always hearing from people that Geno never faced legit defenses, which I think is hog-wash. Whenever I hear this claim, I immediately wonder who they are comparing him to and why the defenses he faced are being critiqued so harshly... Geno, from the time he was a Sophomore, consistently put up stats that range from similar to superior than the stats of RG3 and Luck. Was the competition that RG3 and Luck faced THAT much tougher than the competition RG3 and Luck faced in their college careers? Honest question, I don't know.

I also frequently hear from people that Geno's success was the result of the WV system and his offensive supporting cast. But when compared to Luck and RG3, did he really have THAT much better of a supporting cast than them? Luck had Decastro on his line...many people thought (and may still think) prior to his injury last season that Decastro was a "sure thing" to be a productive OL for many seasons. And RG3 was throwing to Kendall Wright, who was a first round pick himself, who I happen to believe is the real deal. He saved RG3's ass on multiple occasions at Baylor with some of his acrobatic catches on balls that appeared to be over-thrown.

Call me crazy, but I honestly almost chose RG3 as one who Geno is superior to in terms of being a prospect entering the draft, for RG3's injury risks seemed to be glaring to me with him being injured in 2009 and 2010. And it appears that these injury concerns regarding him are actually pretty legit considering the serious injury he sustained this season. Yeah, yeah, I am aware of RG3's potential/talent when not injured, his popularity, his intelligence off the field, etc., but for the long haul, I think Geno is a guy who can make his team a perennial contender and RG3 can obviously accomplish some things himself, but I think he is much more inclined to have a shortened career when compared to Geno.

How can this guy NOT be considered a potential elite QB prospect? Fo' realzies, I don get da hate/lack of cred.

What separates him from the top guys is he a plug and play guy, or does he need to sit a year. Some of those guys on the list maybe would of lived out their potential if they could have sat for a year or even two. But he is not as heralded as a lot of guys on this list. Whether he has a better career or not will be decided at a latter time. But just as what hype he has gotten I would say he is middle to bottom quarter on this list.

Not sure how you are tying Geno to Matty Ice. I think Nassib is more like Ryan than Geno. Keyword = Gamer.

Wasn't really trying to tie the two together for the sake of doing so...just kind of randomly thought about it when I was reading the poll results. Honestly, if Geno were in that 2008 draft class, I'd be more excited about him as a prospect than Matt Ryan. I know that sounds ridiculous now that Matt Ryan has proven himself a nice QB in the NFL so far, but I'm just basing it on how I perceived him as a prospect at the time compared to how I view Geno now...which I have a higher opinion of Geno then I did for Matt Ryan in 2008.

We need more Geno threads!

None, yet.

At this point (meaning draft time before any pro snaps by any of them) I would put him ahead of everyone on that list aside from Luck, Griffin, Aaron Rodgers (woefullly underdrafted) and Matt Stafford.

About even with tannehill IMO

Luck.

Stafford, with a solid supporting cast and a great running game, never put up the elite level completion numbers at Georgia. Huge arm, but the accuracy issues were a concern.

Griffin wasn't considered an elite prospect by nearly everyone until 3/4's through his final college season, which was a marvelous year statistically. Most people thought of him as a Denard Robinson type player. And if anyone questions Geno stats based on the system, Baylor was running a true spread option versus the Air Raid which Geno ran at WV. His injury history was also a concern.

And Luck, while the most technically/fundamentally sound QB prospect I've seen over the last decade, did have an offensive line that featured two high round NFL draft picks and a top 20 defense. Geno's offensive line was a sieve and the defense his senior year was one of the worst in college football. He was constantly throwing from behind and forcing throws to keep his team in the game and he still put up numbers that were identical to Luck's final season in college.

Rogers had almost the exact same positives and negatives coming out of college as Geno does:

Quote:

POSITIVES: Athletic passer with the physical skills and mental intangibles needed to lead a franchise at the next level. Quickly sets up in the pocket, sells ball fakes and technically very sound. Poised under the rush, steps up to avoid defenders and works to keep the play alive. Patient, buys time in the pocket and waits for receivers to come free. Does an excellent job with his reads and natural looking off the safety. Does not make mental errors and throws the ball away rather than toss the errant pass. Times the short and intermediate throws well, as receivers rarely wait for the ball out of their breaks. Outstanding vision and immediately spots the open receiver. Possesses a quick release, live arm and zips the outs or gets the ball downfield. Throws with touch. Sits in the pocket and takes a big hit in order to get the pass off. Fleet-footed and picks up yardage with his legs when necessary. NEGATIVES: Though accurate, lacks top pass placement and has receivers extending vertically to pull the ball out of the air. Must improve his accuracy down the field. Lacks top footwork releasing the ball off a three step drop. Lacks pocket stature.

And Rogers greatly benefitted from being able to sit for a couple of year behind Favre and correct those small negatives which allowed him to become one of the true elite QB's in the NFL. I think Geno has that same opportunity due to his skill set.

I would really love to know how people could vote that he was a better prospect coming out than Vick.

Vick was a tremendous prospect. Skill set wise, off the charts. Geno isn't in that ballpark.

Let's be honest here, Stafford didn't put up great completion % because he threw the ball consistently down the field. Geno's completion % were benefitted greatly from the short routes.

Nice pass.

It doesn't change the fact that Stafford played in a more vertical scheme at Georgia. The chart was posted about the majority of Geno's passes being short routes and screen passes.

I'm not knocking him, but I don't think he's the prospect Stafford was.

Ahhhh the promised Geno thread. Just in time too!

Well done SNR!

Willie Beamen

Where's Case Keenum? Keenum put up better numbers in the exact same offense.

I think hindsight has really colored people's perception. I think Geno is only better than about five of the QBs on that list coming out of college: Ramsey, Grossman, Campbell, Leinart, and Tebow. Otherwise he is only as good or worse than the others. You put Geno in any system of the teams with a top ten pick this year other than the Chiefs or perhaps the Eagles and that guy will crash and burn. People will say, "Oh well, maybe he wasn't as good as we thought he was going to be; its a good thing we didn't draft him."

The bottom line is this: you can take a guy who was a really good QB in college and throw him in a dumpster fire and chances are he will get burned himself. While QB is the most important position in football, it is still a team sport. You still need to have some other pieces in place in order for a QB to succeed. Like him or not, Eli Manning understood this and refused to play for the Chargers because of this simple fact.

This is also one of the reasons why I'm not so down about us trading for ASmith. (We should of gotten him for free, but that is another discussion.) ASmith was thrown into a truly hot dumpster fire in SF, but seems to have come out of the other side. Will he be a great QB? I don't know. But I am willing to bet that he will be a better QB on the Chiefs than Geno will be on another team.

On the Chiefs, in Reid's system, I think Geno will make a fine QB. Coming out of college, however, I think most of those QBs on that list would of had fine careers if they were stepping into same situation that Alex or Geno or any other potential QB that the Chiefs might select in the draft.

The simple fact is that you can't run as vertical a system with the offensive line WVU had versus Big 12 defenses (a statement which in and of itself should tell you how bad that line really was, because Big 12 defenses generally aren't all that...).

He had a couple of off games, but the reality is that he did an amazing job with what he had to work with, including losing their top running back for most of the season (Shawne Alston). I shudder to think what that offense would have looked like without Austin and Bailey.

And Bailey, in particular, is a reason why you'd feature shorter passing. You want to get the ball the hands of a player like that any way you can. That doesn't denote a weakness on Geno's part as much as an effort to take advantage of one of the school's few strengths (or two, if you count Smith's ability to get him the ball in a variety of ways).

That said, I'd agree with putting him behind Stafford, but that's only because of Stafford's insane arm strength. I'd probably favor Geno's passing skillset aside from that. And when I say behind, I don't mean very far behind.

What do all of those QBs I listed have in common?

ROFL ROFL

Knowmo's responses are hilarious. Odd that he included Tim Tebow on his list. I guess that ship has sailed for him.

Hey look, a gif! This one play proves beyond a doubt that Smith consistently threw down field.

Bullshit, lol.

Geno compares to Geno. And that's all Geno has to do in order to be better than the three ****ing stooges we currently employ.
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I agree. I wanted the Chiefs to trade up for Tannehill last year, but even then I think the dude is vastly overrated by some guys on here.

Have you even glanced at Vick's college production?

It's a ****ing joke.

Not to mention the fact he was 6 feet tall, and that was a horrible QB class.

You want to look at a bad QB class...THAT was a bad QB class. Quincy Carter was the third QB off the board. ROFL

Geno > Vick as a prospect, easy. And he'll be a better pro.

This poll isn't going to work out well because of revisionists with bad memories and the Geno haters.

No I actually watched Vick with my own eyes while you were spying on your sister in th shower.

Vicks skill set was superior to Geno.

That Qb class was bad as a whole but the talent in that draft wasn't.

I was just going to post the exact opposite, but we know about opinions.

It was my perception when Vick was coming out, that he was mainly a scrambler, run first guy.

I have never, ever been impressed with his ability to stay in the pocket under pressure to pass. He has always seemed to have happy feet and run. Am I wrong?

It's been said before, but I'll say it again -

The worst thing Geno has done to negatively affect his draft stock was to enter the draft the year after Luck and RGIII. Most any other year he'd be considered a top 3 pick.

All this poll really tells us is who the haters are....better than no one? LMAO x gazillions

Yep, Tom Brady will be viewed as a great prospect hand Joey Harrington will be viewed as a terrible prospect

I like the ones that bounce back and forth between love and hate depending upon whether or not picking him at one looks plausible on that given day. ****ing tools.
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I remember Harrington having a few strikes against him, I know he wasn't a can't miss for sure.

"well ifz the chiefz dont pickz him, he CANTZ be good". ****ing tools.
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"if we pick Joke-al, I will JIMP!!!!"

LMAO

"Save some money, trade Albert and Draft Luke..win win"

Dipshittery at it's finest.

Draft Luke, move Albert to guard. It's like you're getting two players for one pick!

Right. My point being that Air Raid quarterbacks should perhaps be compared against one another rather than QBs from other systems because Air Raid numbers can be crazy.

To me, Geno Smith is really hard to evaluate. In my mind, given the talent he played with, and given the system, his numbers are nothing special (Case Keenum, Seth Doege, etc.), but he does run a sub-4.6 and have a nice arm.

Geno's Air Raid is pretty different from what Case Keenum ran. Drastically different, actually.

Everybody except Tyler Thigpen.

Absolutely THIS. People have forgotten that most drafts don't have ANY "sure things" at any position, much less two of em in the most important position of all. The collective memory is short and cloudy.

fyp.

Hindsight is strong in this thread.

And the worst thing Geno did was not enter the draft after Luck like people stupidly claim. He was well worth the first pick in September and October. He played worse as the year went on compared to his first handful of games. Can only blame himself.

Yup.

dis

If he goes to the Jaguars he will be better than any of them. Geno to Blackmon will go down as the best combo since Young to Rice.

Yeah, those six picks he threw all year are a real deal breaker.

He had bad games for him against K-State and Texas Tech. The Syracuse game was a pretty average game by anyone's standards, but a poorly called game by his coordinator.

The guy equaled RGIII's production his last year in college minus the rushing yards, but only has himself to blame. Makes zero sense whatsoever.

You've really embraced this troll personna. Applause for you.

From secondroundstats:


Geno throws a huge number of screens. Last year, the average quarterbacks threw screens 17% of the time. Smith threw screens on 30% of all his passes! Given that the success rate of screens is so high, that means his overall completion percentage is inflated.

His throws are close to the line of scrimmage. In total, 45% of his passes (including screens) were thrown within 5 yards of the line of scrimmage.

That of course means he’s not throwing many deep passes. Only 27% of Geno’s passes went further than 10 yards, compared to 37% for the average quarterback.

http://nugap.files.wordpress.com/201...ithtargets.gif

http://secondroundstats.com/2013/02/...outing-report/

And Geno's deep ball accuracy was below the average QB's as well.

The stats are on The Bad Guy's side.

GENO VS CHASE

GENO

2010* West Virginia Big East SO QB 241 372 64.8 2763 7.4 7.9 24 7

2011* West Virginia Big East JR QB 346 526 65.8 4385 8.3 8.9 31 7 152.6
2012* West Virginia Big 12 SR QB 369 518 71.2 4205 8.1 9.2 42 6 163.9
Career West Virginia 988 1465 67.4 11662 8.0 8.7 98 21 153.5

CHASE:
2006* Missouri Big 12 SO QB 287 452 63.5 3527 7.8 8.0 28 10 145.1
2007* Missouri Big 12 JR QB 384 563 68.2 4306 7.6 7.9 33 11 147.9
2008* Missouri Big 12 SR QB 385 528 72.9 4335 8.2 8.2 39 18 159.4
Career Missouri 1094 1609 68.0 12515 7.8 7.9 101 41 148.9

Both ran identical forms of the spread, I imagine there careers will end up about the same. Take the left tackle, Alex gonna Ball!!

42 TD and 6 picks versus 39 TD and 18 picks.

Yep, they're the same.

Not to mention one of them is about 4'9.

Basically half of his overall TD's were in the first 4 games against mostly weak teams, then he had a fantastic game against Texas.

The problem was after that. He looked terrible the next 2 weeks, then solid against TCU, good and bad against OU (he should have have had 3 or 4 INT's in that game) and then just looked like an average joe QB the rest of the way.

I still believe Tavon Austin was just as big of a reason for WVU's success as Geno was.

Reminds me of how Percy Harvin made Tim Tebow look so incredible at Florida in 2008.

Theyre not Todd Blackledge?

Jesus, RunKC you are and idiot. "looked bad against OU". Idiot.
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Also 150 more att, more career TD's, 600 more rushing YDS. Daniel exact height as drew Brees. 2 inch taller than Russel Wilson. Also won more games in college.

Not sure what you mean. A lot of people are thinking Geno to the Jaguars now. No one thinks the Chiefs will take him.

That can't possibly be right. Sweet Dick Willie says we are taking Geno and he is the greatest QB prospect the world has ever seen!

I wouldn't worry about Sweet Dick Willie. He only has 13 days left on this earth.

Were talking about as far as prospects go, Im pointing out what these offenses can make a QB look like. Had Geno put these numbers up in a pro style offense in the SEC, then I wouldnt even write on the board except to say take this guy or fold the fanchise. Fact is he is just a good prospect. you can lose on him just as easily win. Inflated numbers, just like the rest of em. He isnt even as athletic as chase was, or maybe he is, but he sure didnt show in on the field.

Yes, we are.

You're not.

Nick Foles, Brandon Weeden, and Graham Harrell came from the same college systems. They put up roughly equal stats.

Weeden went in the first. He's also 3000 years old.

Foles went in the 4th. His stats weren't as impressive as the other two, but is thus far (arguably) having the most successful NFL career.

Harrell went undrafted.

Compare that, ya dick.

ROFL TCU shut Geno down similar to how K State did. You are a moron.

Really, Im not? what are you saying. Then what makes him a better prospect to be a Pro than these other guys? Combine numbers? College numbers? say something, When your talking about is he a better prospect to be a pro. Point out that Daniels always had to fight the height argument. Had he been 6'2 or 6'3 he would have been just as big prospect. His numbers and the Conference he played in, i give way more credit to Chase's career than i do Geno's career. Take Gabbert for instance, a Rivals 5 star prospect. Had his choice of anywhere. Rated the top Pro style qb coming out. Chose to play in a spread offense. Didnt really have that superstar career most thought as highly touted prospect, but his size and athleticism got him drafted really high. Having trouble right now adjusting to the game.

Geno's pedigree coming out of high school was just the same as Chase, didnt get the big offers he wanted and settled for a different school. Put up astonishing numbers in a spread offense and a super weak conference. as a prospect I dont put him ahead of alot of these guys. You only had to watch Cutler play one game in college to know he could sling the rock. Geno not so much, he has huge questions surrounding him and rightfully so. More QBs coming from the spread have failed than succeeded. It is just a fact. A few got it right of the bat, but most are long out of the league. Geno's predecessor Pat White included in this mix.

Browning Nagle.

And this is the QB you want to take #1 overall, someone who is just as good as Grahm Harrell, Weedon and Foles? Thats a deep dark place your livin in. What are you even saying? Thought you wanted to talk prospects

No. He's better than those three. You're the one who's extrapolating based on bullshit.

:) J-E-T-S

Well state what you mean, all you do is talk , bullshit this.. dick that.. this that and the other. You have absolutely nothing to say, except take a qb because the Chiefs havent done it in a long time. If Geno is an off the charts prospect, then why all the fuss? Why is every scout,coach ,writer and so on talking about the same things.

Geno is a slightly better prospect than Weeden due to his age and athleticism, though I doubt he's be using his athleticism that much like Colin Kaepernick or Russell Wilson.

My vote is strictly based on the Geno mafia bundle of stickss who made me hate him. They gonna scratch u eyes out if u no like Geeno!

Slightly better than Weeden? I realize you hate Geno but JFC.