![]() |
Re: SNR & everybody who claims that the non-Geno talent atop this draft is "garbage."
I recently listed several players that I felt are superior to Geno Smith, all things being equal (including positional value):
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
At QB, who was a worse prospect than Geno of the above players? 1. Luck 2-tie. RG3/Stafford 3. Ryan 4-tie. Bradford/Sanchez 5. Newton 6. Gabbert 7. Smith 8. Tannehill 9. Locker At OT, who was a worse prospect than Joeckel, Fisher, or Lane Johnson? The way I would have ordered them as prospects: 1. Long 2. Okung 3. Williams 4-tie. Joeckel/Kalil 5. Fisher 6. Jason Smith 7-tie. Andre Smith/Monroe/Lane Johnson 8. Tyron Smith At passrusher, who was a worse prospect than Werner, Moore, or Jordan? 1. Miller 2. Chris Long 3. Aldon Smith 4-tie. Gholston/Werner 5. Moore 6. Harvey 7. Jordan At DT, who was a worse prospect than Richardson or Hankins? (Star is apparently out of commission as a top 10 pick now.) 1. Suh 2. McCoy 3. Dorsey 4. Dareus 5. Raji 6. Richardson 7-tie. Ellis/Hankins 8. Tyson Jackson 9. Alualu Now on to my broader point here: This is how I would rank them as prospects as of now. Of course you could adjust your rankings all over the place. But the myth that Geno Smith is on par with what we've seen in the past while the other three categories are horrendous nightmares compared to your "usual draft," is just that: a myth. |
suck my butt
|
You're missing out on a key point here.
Number one. Overall. Pick. |
Quote:
|
Let's say Kalil is a wash with Joeckel/Fisher.
The Vikings already had their QB. They weren't going to draft another one. |
Wait. What?
|
Quote:
They are legitimately on par with what we've had in drafts past in the top 10. |
Quote:
My point is that this year's talent doesn't stack up with the elites, but it's comfortable Top Ten material across the board everywhere but maybe passrusher. |
|
Matt Stafford had a lot of question marks coming out of college. But the Lions ignored that and chose to see him as a guy who would INSTANTLY dig them out of that shit hole if he turned out to be great.
Had they gone the safe route with Eugene Monroe, who knows how terrible they would be? It's possible we would have had problems with them in the race to the #1 overall pick this past season. |
I fail to see how a guy who basically started 1 year in college (Sanchez) was considered a better prospect than Geno Smith?
What are the scouts seeing in Geno that suggests he's not a top tier QB prospect? |
you've proved our point
none of the talent this year would be in the top 5 of the last 5 years...unless you give them 'ties' putting gabbert ahead of smith is pure nonsense and none of this changes the central vapidity of your argument...reaching for mythological value (just rhetorical cover for playing it 'safe')... but have fun passing on QBs for another decade, this value thing you've got going has served the chiefs well... |
|
Quote:
|
Quote:
"A lot of question marks." He would have been taken #1 overall by anybody. You're rewriting history. He was one of the best prospects we've seen. There was literally no question he was the best player in that year's draft. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
|
Quote:
In the meantime, though, my point still stands that none of the non-QBs this year are worthy of the #1 overall pick. I might STILL even argue that half of the guys on your list should be left out of the top 5 considerations in a "normal" draft class. The notable exceptions are the OTs, who for many stated reasons that have been discussed the past 3 months on this BB, should NOT be remotely touched by Kansas City. |
-------If we arent going to Draft Geno 1.1....
Resign Albert. Trade for Foles. Draft DeMarcus Milliner in the 1st. |
Quote:
But it doesn't matter -- you can disagree with my rankings. I'm not shitting on a Geno pick. I'm just saying the idea that he is the only sensible selection at #1 because all the other players are "garbage" is SNR, overplaying his hand. |
Quote:
Now, if you wish to argue with me on that point, we can continue that in this thread or go somewhere else. |
How the **** would you have Gabbert and Sanchez in front of Geno Smith??????????
|
Quote:
As of February 24th, 2013, we are officially having the conversation we need to be having. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
Stafford: absolutely huge body, bigger arm, played in a pro-style system, and was far more consistent than Geno |
Quote:
|
after that performance anything other than Geno at #1 is going to piss me right the **** off...
it literally makes no sense not to draft Geno Smith. This shit franchise has the easiest ****ing decisions in the world to make. Re-sign Bowe, re-sign Albert...draft Smith. We could literally forfeit the rest of our draft if we got Smith and I know this entire board would still be thrilled. |
Your rankings are awful.
|
If Stafford was at the combine right now, he'd be owning Geno. Better size for the position, pro-style success in the toughest conference with the best defenses.
You can not tell me that Geno would stand a ****ing chance against Stafford in the passing drills. Stafford has a ****ing cannon and solid accuracy. |
Any non-QB is complete garbage as the no. 1 overall pick. Is Joeckel going to put the team on his back when the Chiefs are down 23-17 with 0:35 left in the game? How about Werner or Moore? Is Star's defective heart going to march the team down the field? We need a ****ing QB. Anything else is absolute garbage.
|
SNR is right, and Direkshun is dumb.
|
let me put it this way
if Peyton Manning signed with KC last year I bet we could have gotten 800+ yards out of Baldwin and/or possibly McCluster. our embarrassing QB play makes every one of our "skill" players look way shittier than they actually are. do I think, at this point, McCluster is good? No. I don't. I have no idea what to think about Baldwin other than think that he's probably destined to be a bust as well. but none of these ****ing guys...even Bowe last year...had the benefit of playing with a QB that had any ****ing clue how to play QB. the only reason Bowe had some numbers is because Cassel literally threw it to him every time...it was hilarious. Cassel would stare him down and throw it to him no matter what. It almost made no sense when I was watching... and then Quinn comes in and starts targeting Baldwin a ton...and even Moeaki on our play-action that surprised everyone because we literally had to run the ball every ****ing down because of how terrible Cassel/Quinn were... the fact that we even have to argue or listen to anyone say we shouldn't draft Smith makes no sense to me... if Dorsey/Reid **** this up it is just a huge strike and I don't think I could forgive them |
Whoa. Stafford joined the Lions at the same time Cassel joined the Chiefs, 2009. In that timespan, the Chiefs have won more games.
|
Quote:
|
Stafford also has terrible mechanics. Did Stafford even throw at the combine?
I think Stafford still has potential to be great but he really took a step backwards this year and he is the poster boy of inconsistency. |
Quote:
We are living in the darkest timeline. |
Quote:
My entire point was when you have the #1 overall pick, you have to find the player that's going to get you the most wins. You need to think sabremetrically, not in terms of where a player stacks up on a list of other players at different positions. If you have a logjam at a position, you need to make a pretty damn convincing case that the guy you select is so good that he'll overcome that roster crunch and win out be being a beast. We have team needs at QB, ILB, CB, and WR if we're just looking at the spots that are WIDE OPEN. ILB is very difficult to argue at the #1 overall, so let's just cross that off the list. Milliner is hardly a special player; we won't hurt if we pass on him. Let's cross off CB. WR is tempting, but just for the sake of argument, let's cross that one off too, if anything simply because I don't see AJ Green or Calvin Johnson this year. Now, the other available positions have to overcome not only being behind in positional value to QB, but they have to feature players that are just so damn good that they can take over that position on the team and start raping. These are the generational talents. And I don't see any. A Werner, Moore is going to get lost behind our two starters. Richardson, Lotulelei, and other DTs have question marks just as much as other DL prospects we've taken in the past. Is Geno Smith possibly a pretty good starting NFL QB? Absolutely. Barkley? Yes, but I think less so. That's a different conversation. That's my math. That's my math on why it's QB or bust FOR THE KANSAS CITY CHIEFS. |
does anyone realize a few years ago we were all like 'Clady is kind of overrated' and then Manning comes in and does what Peyton Manning does and makes EVERYONE around him look SO MUCH BETTER...
Kyle Orton made our (according to some) shitty line look just fine a few years ago. Cassel made our line look like dogshit...because he's dogshit and makes everyone around him worse. Albert/Asamoah/Hudson/Allen/Winston is an above average NFL line. We have invested more than enough into that line and it is a good, solid, effective line with potential to grow as well. I mean, there is literally NO ONE ELSE to draft at #1 other than Smith. So either the Chiefs should let the clock expire and wait for other teams to sprint to the podium with their picks and pick around 9 or 10 OR JUST DO THE ONE LOGICAL THING AND DRAFT GENO SMITH AND GIVE HIM HIS 4 YEARS AND 25 MILLION. that's a ****ing bargain |
Quote:
|
Quote:
|
1. OT Luke Joeckel, Texas A&M - Most overrated tackle since Tony Mandarich. This guy has bust written all over him.
2. DE/OLB Bjoern Werner, Florida State - Doesn't play QB. 3. DE/OLB Damontre Moore, Texas A&M - Doesn't play QB. 4. DE/DT Sheldon Richardson, Missouri - Shitty work ethic and a shitty person to boot. He'll be out of the league within four years. 5. DT Star Lotulelei, Utah - Shitty heart. 6. OT Eric Fisher, Central Michigan - We already have Brandon Albert. 7. CB DeMarcus Milliner, Alabama - Doesn't play QB. 8. OT Lane Johnson, Oklahoma - Doesn't play QB. 9. DT Johnathan Hankins, Ohio State - Doesn't play QB. 10. OG Chance Warmack, Alabama - A ****ing guard? GTFO with that shit. 11. CB Johnathan Banks, Mississippi State - Doesn't play QB. 12. DE/OLB Dion Jordan, Oregon - Doesn't play QB. 13. S Kenny Vaccaro, Texas. - Doesn't play QB. At no. 1, we have the unique ability to select anyone that we want. You pick the QB and THEN build the team around him. This franchise is 3-12 in playoff games since Super Bowl IV. Two of those wins came in the same ****ing season. It is time this franchise tries something else. Don't give me that "draft a QB in the 2nd" bullshit. Geno, Wilson, and Barkley will be taken in the top 10. Until we get a QB, everything else is garbage. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
Geno Smith: -Takes better care of the ball (Stafford had tons of WTF? throws at Georgia) -Is more athletic -Makes better decisions -Has better touch -Has a snappier release -Is more durable Matt Stafford: -Bigger arm. Much bigger arm. -Pro system QB going up against SEC competition every week -Better footwork than Geno -People mostly questioned his decision-making and consistency, but that's about it Stafford was ABSOLUTELY worth the #1 overall pick. I'm not even arguing that. And seeing what he is in the NFL vs. what I'm banking on with Geno, I would trade for Stafford with the #1 overall pick than use it on Geno. But that's simply because I have the benefit of seeing what he does in the pros. I have determined it's good enough for the Chiefs. I think Geno can be better than him. I think better lower body control from his drop backs (exactly what he's been working on at IMG) along with continued coaching from an excellent QB staff could turn him into a better pro QB than Stafford. If you gave me a Stafford clone coming out of this 2013 college class and Geno, I would rather have Geno. |
Quote:
Geno it is! |
|
Stafford was also a party boy drunk in college and still is. He's also a statue - which is getting him injured at a high rate in the pros. He isn't close to Geno in terms of mechanics and release. He also has bad pocket awareness.
He's got a million dollar arm and a ten cent head. Stafford is Nuke LaLoosh. Geno is a much better prospect at the same stage. |
I don't get your hate for Geno Direck. None of the guys you've listed have produced the numbers that Geno has over their college careers. And I don't think any of these guys have Geno's ceiling.
Quote:
|
Demontre Moore: 12 bench reps. Seriously?
|
Chiefs are gonna look seriously stupid when they turn in the card and it doesn't have Geno's name on it.
Berman and Kiper will say nice things about the team moving together after Jovan Belcher, and how Andy Reid is a great coach. They'll pat us on the head and say "They tried." Then they'll stop giving a **** about the rest of our picks for the entire draft. After recommending we let Albert walk and take Joeckel, Mel Kiper gives us a D- for our draft grade, citing that we're a 2-14 that STILL doesn't have a QB yet |
Quote:
|
Quote:
Beyond that, the funniest part to me is that certain people, who seem to be so intent on finding "value" in the draft, go out of their way to devalue players at the quarterback position. You know, the position that is by far the most valuable in today's game. |
The arguments for Geno all seem to be related to the Chiefs' franchise's past, and not to him.
|
Quote:
|
Quote:
Are there any arguments at all in favor of geno that have anything at all to do with KC's history? None that I'm aware of. Everybody that wants him seems to think he's a good QB who will become very good at the next level. |
At QB, who was a worse prospect than Geno of the above players?
1. Luck 2-tie. RG3/Stafford 3. Smith 4. Ryan 5. Newton 6. tie. Bradford/Sanchez 7. Gabbert 8. Tannehill 9. Locker This is the way I see it and the stats back it up. |
Quote:
|
If you think that Sheldon Richardson is a better prospect than Geno Smith, you know very little about the prospects in this year's draft.
I've seen every single snap that Richardson has taken at the D1 level, and I wouldn't draft him in the first. Period. |
the big yella joint
the big yella joint I'll meet you down by the big yella joint |
In 10 years, the only players you are going to look at and say "That is THE pick that turned that franchise around" are under the QB column. Maybe it is only a 30% chance, but if it doesn't pan out this time we can try again in 3 years.
|
Mother**** YOU, Direcksun.
Posted via Mobile Device |
Quote:
|
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:55 PM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.