Andy Reid's football team
 

One of the most disturbing aspects of yesterday's series of disturbing events, to me, is that we now have Reid effectively running the team himself.

The word is that they will hire a GM, but Reid is clearly above the GM - past and future - in the pecking order. When the line was drawn, Hunt chose Reid.

To me this is never going to work.

CHunt has created a scheme where the head coach reports directly to the owner which undermines the role of the GM, fundamentally. Reid seems to clearly have been chosen over Dorsey after the relationship deteriorated and now in the search for the GM itself, we can expect that Reid will be a primary decision maker in who is hired, which subjugates the GM even further. Will it do the team good to have a yes-man at GM?

So now, what is going to be the practical difference between Reid's power play and his position in Philadelphia where he controlled everything?

Are we happy that Reid will be without Dorsey's moderating influence in the future?

Does this mean that Reid wanted Mahomes but not Dorsey, and that was a factor in the split? Should it comfort us, with Reid's history of drafting, developing, and selecting free agent QBs, including his hand-picked incumbent starter, Alex Smith?

I think everyone's alarm should be up right now. The Hunt family has a history of being too loyal to guys who weren't good enough in the past, and now Reid has basically been given the keys to the franchise. A guy who can't effectively run three time outs and two challenges.

This didn't end well in Philadelphia and, barring Mahomes becoming elite and being able to turn this goat **** into gasoline, I don't think this is going to end well either.

Dorsey bungled the salary cap and so he's gone. Not much more to the story. He can draft and find steals from the UDFA pool and cut lists, but you can't keep screwing the pooch on your big contracts.

Everything is just speculation, we don't know anything.

Doesn't our future depend on Mahomes regardless?

OP is pure conjecture and speculation. God bless you Cochise, but I completely disagree with the theme and content of your post. This team is going to be fine. Way too early to go off the deep end. Quit flinging poo and pour yourself an adult beverage... enjoy the summer. :D

My care right now is the development of Patrick Mahomes II and want Andy Reid to concentrate on coaching him and the team. Fortunately Dorsey did the work for 2017 with what should be miner changes for the 53 roster to be pin pointed but they got the guys set for this year so we can at least get by for now.


But Seriously ****

People keep saying Dorsey screwed the cap. Wasn't Trip McKracken the salary cap executive?

Certain NFL organizations love to make the same mistakes over and over again ignoring history.

KC is looking a lot like Philly, and not the golden years.

The point being, the only way this works out well is if Mahomes becomes one of the league's elite QBs, good enough to cover all of Reid's shortcomings. Reid himself is not a good enough coach to do much more than win regular season games.

And if our hopes are pinned on Reid developing Mahomes, how optimistic should we be given Reid's history with QBs?

The Hunt family's experiment into coaches that are not accountable to GMs is going to fail. Especially with this coach, this team needs a strong GM, not a puppet.

One sure fire way to stay under the cap is to draft shitty talent that doesn't command big contracts. Getting rid of Dorsey and his draft record should help us get out of that situation. If cap mgmt was really the driving factor here then this team will never amount to anything as long as Clark owns the team. Putting cap mgmt over a great draft record seems really misguided to me.

Reid coached Favre, and turned Smith into a tolerable QB. I have faith in him to turn Mahomes into a great QB... or at least someone who can throw deep to Tyreek

Not only did D. screw up the salary cap he put us at a severe disadvantage against our two biggest rivals within the division.

We had to watch the Donks outbid us on Sanders and put together a team of Allstars on defense, paying Manning a huge paycheck and still having plenty of room under the cap. They used the cap to buy a Championship.

The Faders just handed out the largest contract in NFL to a guy that has never won a playoff game, they have been outbidding everyone on marginal talent and are still in great cap shape to pull a Denver the next few years and load up for a run to the Superbowl.

Meanwhile under Dorsey..
The Chiefs did not even have enough money to sign their rookies to contracts.

That is a HUGE disadvantage and worthy of being terminated just for these reasons alone.

Dorsey let Poe walk without even giving him a contract to sniff at and then overpaid for Logan, who most on here agreed was not worth that kind of money. Did not even try to renegotiate the albatross contract signed by Maclin and did the chicken shit thing of leaving a message to tell him to hit the bricks.

Dorsey did not really address the middle linebacker position besides bringing in a couple of guys we could not afford. The secondary still has big question marks especially with a brittle guy like Gaines expected to contribute. Dorsey also passed up on many great players in the draft that could have helped this year but chose mostly dark horses that he squandered multiple late picks on.

When you add up the all the missteps in big contracts, Dorsey looks pretty inept at running a football team. Even signing the Canadian Doctor to a mega contract brought howls of displeasure on here. It could end up a bargain in the long run, but burns up valuable cap space that could have been used to plug glaring holes in the defense.

Dorsey will always be remembered fondly for finding diamonds in the scrap heap, he has a great nose for undeveloped talent and churning the bottom ten or so of the roster. But it is the top of the roster and managing the cap wisely as proven by the Pats and Donks in recent history- that wins Championships. In that area he failed miserably.

One of the GM's of our biggest rivals still thinks we have the best 53 top to bottom in the league.

This post should be pinned on CP

Interesting take on the Denver and Oakland situations. Though I'm not sure I agree. Denver got many of their FAs due to the Manning discount (wanting to play with the best to win a SB). Sanders went to Denver to play with Manning, not because we couldn't pay him. Ultimately, Denver saved money on everyone else by paying up for Manning to be on their team. They've lost a lot of pieces since Manning left due to not being able/willing to match the deals paid elsewhere. Unless there's another Manning around to pull the same stunt then it seems that isn't a viable plan going forward.

Raiders haven't really had to pay anyone yet (Carr being the first mega deal), but let's see how they look after signing Mack and Cooper.

Meanwhile, we gambled on Berry and Houston not playing at all-world levels in a contract year and got burned. We got great production out of them but then had to pay up. Smith, Berry, and Houston would make for a tough cap situation for a lot of teams, I would think.

I'll give you the doc's deal was odd, and I'd throw in Fisher and Hali as other question marks. Still, with the quality players we have and several stars, should we really expect to have the most cap room in the league?

This is a good post. Dorsey was good at identifying talent in the draft, but when we have to cut our #1 WR (although he underperformed his contract) to sign our draft picks that's a big problem. But we don't really know how much of each problem was which person. All we can do now is hope for the best!

Good ****ing god.

Poe has been on the decline since his back surgery in 2015. His play slipped big time last year. ILBer isn't a "value position" in this defense and never will be a valued position because they're in nickel and dime for two out of three downs.

Dorsey wasn't fired for allowing Poe to walk and not overdrafting an ILBer (or failing to sign and old bucket of bolts).

So Hunt chose money over talent? Most Chiefs fans were screaming to pay Houston and Berry and now they are blaming Dorsey for it.

I don't like paying anyone but that's just me. Dorsey spent big on Alex when he could've just slow played him. Or chosen to slow play Houston. OR! Slow play Berry now. But he got screwed in all 3 deals (berry will prove to be a bad deal imo )


Clark is willing to spend, but burning $ unnecessarily makes owners mad

What's with the CHunt, I don't get it.

Dorsey wasn't good at the contract part of the job but it's his first time as a GM. The Chiefs should have given him more time to learn since he was so good at bringing in talent. They could have even brought in a capologist like many other teams have done.

This is true


Fat Andy pushed him out before that could happen. Or rejected that suggestion

The rationalization process has begun.

Dorsey was the problem! The cap was the problem!

Andy's hand-picked QB, anemic offense and defense, and poor game management - definitely not the problem!

Dorsey was the one holding this organization back!

You don't suck for 2 decades without it being the owner.

2 decades? How about 4. And don't rebuttal with Marty era bullshit either. We sucked then as well.

2-53



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Dude, that's not being argued. Straw man away, if you must

Andy is Clarks boy. If it came down to Andy or Dorsey Andy wins, but I dont think thats what happened here.

Andy has always called the shots. Nothing changes except losing Dorsey's player evaluation skills. Reid picked Dorsey! Clark rubber stamped it.

Yeah, I brought this up yesterday, but nobody wants to hear it. I guess we're still in the unicorns and rainbows portion of the offseason, and everything will be alllll right, no matter what.

My impression, from listening to both of them, was that Reid and Dorsey worked as a collaboration. I'm guessing that whoever comes in next is most likely to be a second fiddle. And I just don't believe that's a good thing. As you mention, the 2010-2012 Eagles decline/trainwreck comes to mind.

For four years, we've basically seen the same stuff as post-2004 Philadelphia, so I'm not sure why this would be any different.

In any case, at the end of the day, firing your general manager in late June can in no way be construed as a good thing, no matter how hard anybody wants to spin it. No matter who is responsible, whether it's Reid or Clark or Dorsey himself (looking at GB...), this kind of shit just doesn't happen, particularly not for teams that are winning.

Spot on insight above. Good post.

People that think Reid didnt sign off on every player aquistion or could veto are crazy.

It all comes down to Mahomes anyway dude. You do realize all the "great" coaches have been propped up and carried by elite QBs, right? Reid also is the one that's developed these dumpster dive "talents" that failed everywhere else. You do realize that too, right? Winnining 11 games a year with Alex Smith is nothing short of incredible.

We have a loaded roster that reached it's ceiling. They reacted to that and got us a guy that can be the stud QB to get over the hump. None of that changed yesterday.

A lot of speculation masquerading as fact here.

You new here. Cause that's all cp is. Speculation presened as fact.

Even for CP this is egregious.

Oh hell yes Poe had to go he wasnt even dbl teamed last year and almost everyone handled him with ease. Poe was a good guy but just not worth paying the back is a IED waiting to go off.

So very Chiefs to shit-can the strongest area/side of the team that they hired.
Division rivals breathing nice and easy now.

Great job, Clark!

The hell it didn't.

One more time:

Do you like having that deep roster stacked with under the radar talent that allows KC to plug and play should the starter go out?

You do?!

Kiss it goodbye Charlie Brown, and get your happy ass back on over to Lucy for some kicking practice.

So dorsey was the one responsible for our talent....but then you blame just Andy Reid for Alex Smith. Funny how that works.
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This 100%. Reid had to sign off on Dorsey himself but people don't think he signs off on players?
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We went from we won't win unless we draft a franchise QB to now that we have one, we won't win because we are changing GMs. Funny.
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Ain't no me in that we.

I've always said that I trust the Mahomes pick BECAUSE of Dorsey AND Reid.

And while I never would have predicted this, this is exactly the kind of dysfunction that a supahstah QB can't paper over, I was hoping against hope it wouldn't be a slew of key injuries, some perhaps career threatening. This might be worse. This can hurt us in both talent acquisition and retention, depending.

Dorsey set the foundation for the Chiefs to build a winning franchise and set us up for a bright future. It's a shame he got let go and no matter how it's spun losing Dorsey is a blow to the Chiefs organization as OP reminds us this is Andy Reids team and he had to sign off on Patrick Mahomes II so he is invested in the kid and will do right to develop him into what we can hope to be an elite quarterback that can make us championship caliber.

I don't really trust Andy Reid I just don't have any other option because he is going be our coach with his extension like it or not. I just hope things work out and our next GM can build upon from the foundation Dorsey has set.

The future is Mahomes for certain. If he's a stud we can compete for the title and if he isn't it's back the drawing board.

First off, the option of either competing for the title or going back to the drawing board is not exactly the paradigm of certainty.

But even assuming the best case scenario on his part, that's not set in stone. He can be a stud and we could still be the Lions or the Chargers.

you are such a debbie ****ing downer, can't you at least give the masses one flawed reality :D

What's that? I was distracted icing my hairy beanbag.

How any times do you guys have to read this before it registers?

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt...157737484.html

I don't buy it.

Yea right, no reason to believe they guy who has covered the team for years and has the actual inside sources.

Better to just go with what you want to believe because you are mad.

Yeah... Im sure Reid is cool with whatever guy Clark brings in. You are smarter than that.

Its called trust. Why would Reid not trust Hunt on that?

And your statement has nothing to do with what I posted anyway. I am sure Clark may ask for Reid's input but the ultimate decision is Clark's, he wants the GM to report to him. There is a very specific reason for this.

Clark "Hey Andy, letting go of your hand picked GM Dorsey today"
Andy " Sounds good, Clark. I can't wait to mee the next guy you hire. Have a good day, buddy"

'next GM up'

amirite!!

FYP

That's the way it's gonna have to be the thing is the GM doesn't have to put on the pads and a helmet but he is vital to the organization success.


The thing that really gets my goat is that it took fans Sea of Black and a banner to get the attention of Clark that things were not ok and that change had to be made. Well this time things are or were going good on the up and up for this organization and this regime gave the fans hope much needed hope and drafting a quarterback of the future is the biggest thing for 40 years to happen and John Dorsey deserves credit if the kid has what it takes he believed it to be.

Still one man cannot or should not be responsible for the success or failure of a franchise so the next "GM up" is going have to work with Andy Reid and be on board with the Chairman of the Board Clark Hunt.

I would rather have a gm who knows talent but can't manage the cap than a gm who can't bring in talent but manages the cap well. That is basically Scott Pioli.

If Dorsey was fired for cap reasons, **** that. Hire a better cap manager that puts his feet to the fire. Sure it bothers me but considering how many elite draft picks he's hauled in at the price of peanuts, that more than makes up for a few million over spent on a veteran

Something absurd to consider... In 4 drafts, every single first and second rounder is a legit starter. That is crazy good talent evaluation.

There has to be a factor we'll probably never know. The management of several contract situations was embarrassing. Not sure if it was fire worthy, but every part of how Maclin was handled was bad. I think there's more to it though.

I find it very hard to believe that Andy just sat back on his hands and ass and let Clark show Dorsey the exit. That makes ZERO sense. ZERO.

Better hope that Veach was taking notes.

As was pointed out, Dorsey was taking the old, cold, Belichick road in terms of dealing with personnel contracts instead of the Carl father figure/buddy-buddy way, and he was absolutely right in doing so.
Why should he care if these millionaires get hurt feelings? It's a ****ing business.
You can't get on a person's ass about cap management while simultaneously bitching that he isn't giving your franchise's dollars away FAST ENOUGH to keep the players happy.

This whole thing is total bullshit, and I can not WAIT until Dorsey gets his next job so that he can tell his side of the story without worrying about being blackballed.

Terez stated that Maclins rep was told about the release before the voice mail was left when Dorsey tried to call him. Maclin is being a douche for a guy that will still get 4 mil for doing nothing. Just like he got 12 mil last year to do nothing.

Maclin getting Dorsey fired is a ChiefsPlanet meme.

He was fired because he lost a power struggle with Andy Reid, which struggle was created by CHunt's idiotic scheme where both parties report directly to the owner.

It only makes zero sense to you because

A. It conflicts with what you want to believe
B. You dont have a Goddamn clue what was going on at Arrowhead

Basically you are saying Reid fired Dorsey though Clark has told you elven million times that the coach and GM both report directly to him.

Its ****ing hilarious you guys cant see how simple it is that Clark and Dorsey didn't get along for some reason which would likely be differences in player contracts.

Its also fairly obvious most of you have never hired fired or managed people.

I am not glad Dorsey is gone but I have no reason to believe what actual people in the know are saying which is Andy didn't have anything to do with it and Andy isn't going to control personnel.

Those arent mind blowing concepts unless you just want to make shit up to fit your agenda and whine and complain.

:facepalm:

This doesn't even make sense.

It is pretty hilarious that when Maclin got cut this place went ape shit talking about how ridiculous it was, how shitty the contract was, why cut him yada yada yada.

Dorsey gets fired and suddenly he is bulletproof and has never made a mistake.

Maclin isn't WHY Dorsey got fired, Maclin is part of why Dorsey got fired.

If you believe what been reported about the Berry contract deal and Houston's contract etc...is not hard to connect the real dots here.

Dorsey is good at drafting and terrible at contracts. Its THAT simple.

It's still Clarks fault. If this was a lingering problem then it should have been taken care of after the season.

Now your top guy is gone and your 2nd top man is in Indy. Clark should have made this decision in January not June. Why the hell is he examining job performances this late?

:facepalm:

It's Clark's team and he can run it however he sees fit.

There are three possible outcomes:

1. Nothing changes and the Chiefs continue to win at a high clip, despite cap and Free Agency bungles
2. Talent evaluation slips and the Chiefs struggle
3. Talent evaluation and free agency signings improve and the Chiefs reach their goal

Whatever the case, Clark is still a "young" owner in this league and he, more than anyone else, will learn from this unprecedented decision.

Shame Clark cant fire himself...losing Ballard then firing Dorsey is sucking at your job.

Or, he feels as if both of those guys can be replaced and put the organization in a better place.

People in all businesses are replaced daily due to personality conflicts, bad decision making or their treatment of others, whether they're VP's, Presidents, CFO's, CEO's, etc.

The bottom line is that Clark made the decision with the idea that the Chiefs will be better for it.

He certainly made the right decision in firing Carl Peterson, Herm Edwards, Todd Haley, Romeo Crennel and Scott Pioli.

Why are people on Chiefsplanet so absolutely certain that he made the wrong decision this time?

Chunt is making the mistake of supporting a family locker-room environment over results. There is a reason the saying "family and business dont mix" exists. Pro sports is a cut-throat industry and Dorsey just turned that dumpster fire (of Hunt's making) into a 22-4 team.

There is a reason firing your GM, at this point of the year, never happens, ever...Hunt sucks at running a team.

It's not Dorsey's job to be best buds with the players...dealing with money and pragmatic personnel decisions are the dirty part of it. Shit, the players in NE are kind of scared of Belichick and he's the frickin coach.

They can have all the picnics and slumber parties they want at Arrowhead...but losing is far worse for team morale than a few millionaire players with hurt feelings.

Are Berry and Houston going to pout when the new GM does something they dont like or cuts one of their friends?

This issue is specific to the Chiefs because we rely so much on elite playmakers on the D. If we had the offense picking up the slack then Berry wouldn't be so overvalued. Belichick can afford to ship players to the Browns and still keep winning because he has an elite QB.

And because he routinely out-coaches other teams.

Belichick isn't a detriment to his team on Sundays.

Berry has ALWAYS been over valued in KC..when he was out with cancer the defense actually put up better numbers.

He became the cancer survivor poster boy for the NFL...which increased his emotional value through marketing. KC just got 6 national games. Hunt wanted him a happy Chief...and its his team.

He played great last season so not taking anything away from that...but it was a contract year.

All assumptions with no facts to support them.

You're missing the entire point.

Clark Hunt and John Dorsey had a toxic relationship. Dorsey was allowed to run the football operations but Clark was clearly unhappy with the handling of Berry's contract, long term contracts given to Maclin and Bowe (among others that didn't pan out), the mishandling of the salary cap and the negative publicity surrounding Maclin's release.

The Chiefs not only lost Chris Ballard this year, they lost their College Scouting Director, Marvin Allen, to Buffalo, where he took a demotion. They chose to move on from Trip McCracken and Will Lewis, while David Culley took a QB Coach job in Buffalo after working with Reid continuously since 1999.

Obviously, whatever issues that caused Clark Hunt to move on from Dorsey didn't just start and end in the past week.

Right. Reid is obviously a detriment to his team, which is why the Chiefs are only 43-21 during his tenure, averaging 11 wins per season.

He's a saboteur.