No. It was a defining moment of the Moore era, and I will not stop reflecting upon it or using it as a barometer of where the club stands going forward. Doing otherwise would result in shallow analysis, IMO.

Then start a complaining thread, Shields has been great for us this year. If our offense was as good as last year we would have had a real shot. This trade worked for both clubs.

You the keeper of this thread now?
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Shields has been outstanding. No question. Davis has been atrocious. Collectively, they've been a wash in terms of WAR. And Myers has been a positive WAR player in very short order.

It didn't work for both clubs. The Royals would have been better to keep Myers, start him immediately, and invest in another FA pitcher. Additionally, one must factor in the controllable years of Myers going forward.

The trade was an absolute disaster for the Royals.

Fair enough but have to recognize Lough too

Absolutely. If Lough consistently performs at his current level, he's a viable RF option. Now, we're going to have to get slug from another position, but Lough is far from trash at his current clip, especially defensively speaking.

Definitely. If we are getting any type of power from where we should be getting it, Lough's lack of pure power would be an afterthought, and not having Myers wouldn't be as big of a deal either.

People love the front-line ace and are heavily tempted to chalk it up as a win just because of him, but you are right. Wade Davis was a critically important aspect of the trade, he had to work as a starter. Since he didn't, we're probably going to lose the trade unless Myers falls apart, or if Shields goes total Cy Young on us in 2014 and leads the Royals to the postseason.

Because this wasn't a Shields for Myers trade. We needed Wade Davis to be a legit #3-4 starter. He's been a legit POS and a Kyle Davies replica. **** Dayton Moore. I pray his dumb ****ing ass is fired after this season.

You don't need power from any lineup, you need value. Power creates more value than speed does but in the end if Lough creates as much value as Myers who cares if he doesn't have his power? We are struggling this year because Fat Ass decided to eat a bunch of country breakfasts this winter thinking he was a star, and because Moose sucks, and because DM played his pet in rf two full months when he had a good alternative in Omaha

For once I agree with some of what you said, the JF torture in rf did cost us W's...

The trade was stupid to begin with.

Why?

Because Shields is only going to be A Royal for 2 years. He'll get big money somewhere else.

Wade Davis sucks.

We give up our 1st/2nd best minor league pitching prospect and one (if not best) Royals hitting prospect in quite some time for a 2 season rental on a team that realistically isn't ready to compete w/ the big sticks of the division over the course of a season.

This team needs power bats to move our dinker hitting offense around the bases. Butler needs protection. That's the most important thing in this lineup and he simply doesn't have it.

It's mind boggling why the Royals stuck with Francour and now Getz for so long? The only thing I can think of why they were not up graded is because DM thought that Moose/Hosmer/Butler would make up for their suck.

David ****ing Lough.

Pretty good, huh?

BUY! BUY! BUY!

*Except do not under any circumstances buy Rios to replace Lough. We just seen why.

But don't buy Rios to replace lough goddamnit

True.

No ****ing shit. Would be a terrible, terrible move. ****.

I'm all for Chen placing an 82 mph fastball between Dunn's shoulder blades next time then yelling at him to take the ****er out next time

Buy buy buy - except that despite that we've won, what five straight, we haven't made up a single game.

It's the head to head games against Cleveland and Detroit where they will have to make up ground.....and they won't be able to do it. Well, not against Cleveland anyways.

The trade was stupid to begin with.

Why?

Because Shields is only going to be A Royal for 2 years. He'll get big money somewhere else.

Wade Davis sucks.

We give up our 1st/2nd best minor league pitching prospect and one (if not best) Royals hitting prospect in quite some time for a 2 season rental on a team that realistically isn't ready to compete w/ the big sticks of the division over the course of a season.

This team needs power bats to move our dinker hitting offense around the bases. Butler needs protection. That's the most important thing in this lineup and he simply doesn't have it. Hosmer and Moustakas have absolutely ruined this team this season.

Yep. Exactly why this thing is going to be so tough to do.

Wildcard standings though, assuming Baltimore lose today, we gain a game.

May is what killed this team. Hos has come around, but his and Mooses stink in May was a huge part of what buried this team.

And not a single **** was given by me. Move on. What's done is done.

Would you agree that Shields + Lough at RF > Wil Myers?

In a vacuum for this single year? Yeah, the numbers would support that. The problem is that you're looking at 6 more years of Myers, which is always why so many people were upset by the move.

If Moose and Hos becme perennial 25+ to 30+ HR, 100+ RBI guys, then the sting of Myers hurts a lot less.

True, but on the other hand, it is very difficult to obtain a top of the line starter these days, since so much $ is invested in those pitchers. Honestly, I can understand why people would be upset on giving up Myers for Shields + Davis, but we all have to understand that the 2012 season pitching was just utterly pure dogshit, that it HAD to be improved. Not to mention that Shields is under KC control until 2014, and he can be used for a possible 2014 run as well, or if the team impodes in 2014, he'd have, assuming he stays healthy and continues to put up solid numbers, outside of the W/L, *knock on wood* I would anticipate a solid return for him. Something like what the Cubs/Rangers trade.

GMDM improved it by getting Shields and Davis, and while Davis is not looking good so far, Shields alone has been a good addition to the team. Santana was also a great addition as well. The last time I can name at least two top pitchers/ace material stuff was when Kevin Appier and David Cone. The best part is that Hoch was finally moved to the pen, which was needed (although I would had liked to see him released, but he's been fairly, for the most part, average in the pen, so I'll tolerate that.)

need a 2nd baseman

2nd baseman/3rd baseman or the end of a rotation guy would be my choices, in that order.

So what would it take to trade the Phillies for Lee, Young, and Utley?

A lot

Wil Meyers for starters

i just don't think we can go 3rd base yet, even though moose is basically a platoon guy now ... we just can't afford it.

Keep hoping that the end of the rotation gets boosted with Duffy

Yeah, which is why I put 2nd base as the top priority over the other two, but if there is a good deal for someone at 3rd or back of the end rotation starter, you may have to consider the options, depending on what's the other team's asking for prospects/$

Boston wins. Royals now 6 back in the wild card race.

I CAN'T HEAR YOU I CAN'T HEAR YOU I CAN'T HEAR YOU I CAN'T HEAR YOU

I think he wanted defense and Getz does bring that. Frenchy supposedly had the big arm in RF but his range was awful this year whereas his replacement has incredible range

OK, what does it take to get Gordan Beckham? Arbitration eligible next year, but not a FA until '16.

Would the Sox even consider it? He's a good player, but he's not great. Very solid.

Baseball Tonight highlights was all about Sale and the bad baserunning in the 9th. NONE of the defensive gems shown other than Lough's catch. Whitesox are 20 games under .500 and it was all about Sale.

Sadly KC is a smaller market than Chicago and the Royals have been awful for so long no one outside of here cares about them. I think they should have mentioned what Lough did, but respect is earned and they have not done that yet.

I was with you until you went full reerun and said Hosmer has ruined this teams season. Maybe you missed the last month and a half. I dunno

i'm late to this party, but on the early baseball tonight edition, d-lough had the number 1 webgem.

of course, i haven't watched SC this morning, and that may have changed. but isn't it nice to follow a (ahem) "winner"?

let's go royals!!!

p.s. suck it hawk.

****ing asshole whores!

Turn off SC. Turn on MLB network. All 5 great plays were part of the highlights.

Your mistake was watching the 4 letter network. Almost a sin.

My take is that the Royals have a better chance of making a run with Santana. The reason is: they've gotten to this point without much help from the bats of Gordon, Butler, Moose or Escobar. I would put my money on confidence that our offensive production will go up a few notches. We would really need Ervins reliable pitching to keep things steady. Of course I say all this in the glow of Lough's impressive performances.

No, the Royals cannot sell at this point. In fact, they have to look to improve at 2B for this year and beyond.

I'd look into Beckham. Kendrick would be a dream but likely too costly, and I'd also explore a prospect swap for Wong.

Going .500 only means something to the fans. That's it. Getting a good return out of Santana instead of keeping him and winning 2.5 more games is pointless. Sell Santana, you must. If you don't, you have failed as an organization again. Selling gives you a shot to take a run at it last year. Take the emotion out of it. You have Shields for one more year, have to make the most of whatever next year will bring.

I'm ok with keeping him and trying to bring the guy back next year.
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Logically, you're absolutely right. But that's not what's going to happen when the team is only 6 games out of a playoff spot, coming off of trading its top overall prospect for this type of window.

Thanks Rany.

I'm torn. On the one hand, Erv has been awesome this season, but (barring an '07 Rockies type run) we're not likely going anywhere this season. Love watching the guy pitch and would love to see him back, but this has to be about helping us in 2014 and beyond.

Every time I think I'm done with the season, these guys rattle off 5 straight. And I don't see this team winning anything this season. But .500 may mean something to ownership, especially with a team that's fairly young and will return many of its best parts next year, and especially if attendance is up throughout the entire season. Might convince The Hole to put a few more dollars into payroll if he sees it as progress. I doubt it, but ya never know.

And is it really that out of the question that we can't/won't re-sign Santana? Francoeur's contract is off the books, as are Hochevar & Chen's. That's a lot of money, no? I feel like (as long as he's asking for a reasonable amount) we could re-up on Erv & go get a decent 2B this winter for all the money we've been wasting on 2 of those 3 (and I'm not sure how much longer Chen can keep up his smoke & mirrors "fool em with offspeed stuff all night" act).


I'll give this team some credit. This conversation is at least a little bit better than "What can we get for [insert every productive player on the major league team here]?" we're so used to.

Is Rany advocating Beckham? I actually haven't seen him claim much about acquisitions since his position is that the Royals are not legit buyers, which is pretty much true.

He tweeted about it last night. Someone asked him about Rios, and he said he would rather have Beckham.

Plus having an owner who is regarded by many as cheap and not interested in winning. Glass' reputation would literally be better served by going for it and coming up short than trading guys off and alienating most of the average ticket buyers.

Attendance is up, and we will finish near .500

We don't have to be buyers or sellers.....

/Glass

We have our best team in 10 years and people want to sell? Why? Play it out. Who cares if we don't make the playoffs. Anyone who thinks simply getting STL's marginal 2B prospect makes us a winner next year is a total dumb ass to begin with.

Rany also made it clear last night that Lough is a 27 old fluke and evoked the name Bob Hamlin.

Pretty much.

This team is "in it." The math certainly doesn't favor us, but I don't think that the majority of fans are aware of how long the odds are. The Royals are "winning," and selling would absolutely kill the club in terms of public perception.

Yeah, they are in a bad position, they cannot sell off and piss off the fans, if this is the best team in a long while and they sell, it disenfranchises them even more if that is possible.

Would love our hitters to turn it on and rattle off a big win streak and possible more. Sucks being a KC fan.

Why didn't he evoke the name Raul Ibanez?

I don't know if he's Hamelin... he definitely doesn't take walks though. He has 4 on the season... but he actually hits enough we don't notice.

To be fair, Wil Myers is still doing the same thing. He has 7 walks in 32 games. Sounds exactly like a Royals prospect. 30 BB/150 K.

I can live with the strikeouts as long as you hit With power to help drive in runs. I mean, an out is an out isn't it?......whether its grounding out to ss or striking out swinging. I guess it depends on the situation.

No. Strikeouts are much better for pitchers. Runners can't advance, errors cannot be made, etc etc.

Yea, like I said, it's all situational. But it doesn't matter much if there's no one on. Wo cares if you pop fly to center or strikeout? How many times are Pop flies dropped?

Today's game (July 28) is the MLB TV free game of the day. Helpful for us out of market folks.

Make a run sure but why keep Santana??? At least trade him for something that will be around next year and upgrade the hole in our batting lineup. We sure as hell ain't signing him for what he is going to want and since his pitching has been off the charts, we wanna recoup while he is at what is surely his high point....SELL HIGH on Santana!

Utley would look so good in our lineup.

That would be an instant boost and we would contend. Probably won't happen though.

But with Hochevar, Chen & Francoeur coming off the books, couldn't we use most/all of that money to make a solid offer to Santana? I guess I just don't get this idea that there's no chance we can re-sign him...

Probably have to commit to around 3 years/$45 mil. You still want to make that offer?

In what world would the Royals be paying a guy 10+M a year...likely near 13-15M? You can't take the chance that you will be able to resign him IMO. I just don't see that happening in any world from the small market Royals. He won't be looking for a one year deal but rather a multi-year contract which is much too risky for a team like the Royals to lock up that much money in one SP.

Plus I think most people would rather see us save that money and try to re-sign Shields. As many others have noted, Santana has a history of being inconsistent from year to year. Plus Shields is a fastball/changeup guy, might have more miles left on his arm... plus his bulldog mentality is a great example for the younger pitchers. He doesn't panic and fall apart under pressure situations.

Plus it'd be nice if he could be there if (knock on wood, lots of wood) guys like Zimmer and Ventura can make their way up in the next 2-3 years.

If the owner wasn't a piece of trash who would use it to cut costs elsewhere, I might...

Fair enough. I don't know enough about what he would command & what we can afford. I just know that we have no problem overpaying crapsacks like Hoch, Frenchy, etc. and it might not be the worst thing in the world to overpay a good player, especially considering how "close" we're supposed to be.

Interesting storyline in the AL West. The Rangers, who now have a front office with a winning attitude and money to back it up, are 5 games out of first behind the Athletics who seem to still be playing some form of moneyball.

Here's the thing with Lough-yeah, he's probably just a guy. Except that...I remember right after they changed hitting coaches, he hit a homer to right and everyone, including him was surprised.

He credited Brett with finding something wrong with his swing and said they "corrected it". Since then, he's been a .300 hitter and fairly productive. I felt like early on he didn't have the bat speed,but it seems he does now.

Perhaps it sticks. At any rate, it's not costing us much to see. I think we need to sort out RF but it's no longer the gaping black hole it was when Frenchy played there every game.

to me, 2b is the real question mark. You really need an everyday player in that spot.

No problem. Baseball is so much different than the NFL which has parity in player signing because of salary cap rules. You pay good players you want to keep in the NFL but MLB is so much harder to judge appropriate signings based on franchise structure, minor league talent and ability of top tier teams to take greater chances on player signings than the lower tier teams. It is what makes baseball a complete guessing game for these small market teams and very interesting when lower level teams ARE in the race come August.