OOps I lied.

You are a sick man.:)

Believe it or not, I have tried mouth to mouth resuscitation on fish before.

Didn't work.

You are right. Never thought about that. I did try the hospital tank...smaller tank, but too late.

I lied...

I did do the tupperware, but it was cheap crap and caved in. The best idea is to get Trex composite wood decking post covers...4x4. Cut them to the right depth, toss them in and surround by other rocks/boulders. You don't have to worry about the glue or collapsing.

Have you heard about over population with cichlids?

Ohh, yeah. Back when I first started out I got pretty overzealous and ended up with a tank with too many fish getting way too big for a 55, with an overcluttered tank, which resulted in all of them getting stressed out and killing each other. Tough but important lesson. These days I'm very careful about the number of fish, how big they could potentially get, and how well I could provide shelter enough for all of them to feel safe. The more comfortable they are, the less stressed they are, the brighter colors they will display. A stressed tank can get ugly. It's always a delicate balance...

I can't imagine the maintenance on a bunch of small tanks. Let alone trying to cable around them.

A 10g tank weighs 83.29 lbs. Assuming small tanks x 25 is a ton...2000 lbs. Jeesh. I got yard work to do and a ton of other things to do. They might have a problem.

The optimal fish length is 2" per gallon.

Agreed.

When I say "over populated" is a good thing to a degree. If there are too many, yes, you found out the hard way. Too few, they are territorial and will park in their spots.

The idea is to have a fine balance to where there is too many ie. and have to run around and chase the offenders off therefore can't establish a roosting spot. This adds more movement and little bullies. They are constantly running around.

I have been a big fan of over population, to a degree. Look at some articles.

Another issue. Can you imagine a tank with an Oscar and Giant Danios? Or zebras? Some Jack Dempseys and Paradise fish? Silver Dollars and Malawis? Neon's and cichlids? Red Devils and with any of the above?

I have had impossible tanks mixtures. It is how you raise them. No fresh food and they grow up together. They are buddies. My Oscar was a puddy cat. Very intelligent. I came into the room, he was wagging is tail at the front of the tank wanting attention. He was living with minnows (danios, zebras)

I introduced him when he was young. The others were all adult. Same with the rest of my tanks.

Last point.

People don't think fish aren't intelligent. They are. I have trained fish to jump out of my tank. They follow my hand. I have yet to have them let me stroke their sides (gotten close). Some Oscars, trained correctly, will shove a ping pong ball threw hoops and put them in goals. I don't have time to try that.

This was interesting. The laser pointers that you play with cats/dogs. I was playing with the cats and thought, what the heck, and pointed it into the tank. Dang the upside down cats, the danio, the sliver dollars, the dempesys, the parrot nose cichlids were all chase the laser pointer:)

Plecos didn't give a crap:(

Not as much as a cat or dog crazy, but were stimulated by it. Funny.

It definitely depends on the fish in particular. Like I posted in the video a few pages up, I used to have a Jack Dempsey that was probably 6" in a 55gal with a bunch of other cichlids and a huge angel. That Jack was actually the peacekeeper of the entire tank. He just requireed his own nice big shady rock nest to dominate, and he was happy. He would straight up go out and break up fights between other fish, it was pretty funny.

But every tank is different. You just have to find that balance...

They are much more intelligent than people give them credit for. They each definitely develop their own personality for sure. The older they get, the more so. Some are grumpy and more agreesive. Some are cool and laid back. It's crazy seeing the difference in a fry once they get big enough to show some personality...

Plecos on the other hand, I don't think they've ever evolved enough to understand much past "Smell something, try to eat it." They haven't changed much in millions of years..

Never heard of a referee fish. That is so cool. They surprise me all the time.

I had a fancy goldfish that I rescued from a very small, and very green bowl that just loved me. She too would breach and knew I was teaching her to breach through a hoop but we didn't get there before she died. I used to run from side to side of the tank and she would swim fast to meet me every time. Could pet her too and she did loops for me. Bubbles sometimes. It was amazing and hit hard when she died. I haven't had a tank since. This bump has me thinking about it again.

That buddy in Overland park, was cleaning his Discus tank. He had a porous rock that he put into a bucket. An hour later, or so, he noticed that he couldn't find his small pleco. He looked in the bucket, found the pleco, tossed him in the tank and presto, pleco ran around.

Yes, pre historic. After the A bomb, cockroaches and plecos will still be around.

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And Keith Richards.

Hayo!

I never had a gold fish. I wouldn't have thought that they were that intelligent. I just had feeder goldfish that I put in my Snakehead, Clownknife, Piranha 55g tank in college and let them connect the dots.

We would place bets in how fast they would last.

I find it interesting and enlightening that a gold fish would form a bond with you.

Funny how fish work. Not surprising though. They are totally mis-understood.

She sucked on my finger too and I could hand feed her. At my lake house, we had Coy (goldfish) and they were pretty smart. I enjoyed emptying a bag of catfood and watch them go wild. Like pirana's in a pirana movie. Do it too much though and they will never leave and then the entire yard and house smells like Coy shit at dusk.

Honestly, there's never been an animal (for lack of a better all emcompassing term) that wasn't drawn to me.

There's definitely an intelligence difference between fish just like every other species. Lots of dumb ones that manage to evolve from stupid luck and abundance. And a select few absolutely beautiful species who manage to continue existence only because of aquarium breeders in spite of insane evolutionary challenges, end up gaining some seriously beautiful exotic colors because of it.

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Awww. That's awesome! And gorgeous.

That playful fish is a Frontosa cichlid from Lake Tanganyika, Africa. I thought about getting one, but as Fish alluded to about fish size, they get to 1.3' big. My 125g not big enough:)

That is a Parrot Nosed cichlid, a cross breed of a red devil. I have 4 of them. Not played like that with them though. Wonderful colored fish, people think I have a salt tank.

:thumb: Parrots are generally pretty funny and good natured with a unique personality....

I ran like 15% salt in my tank as goldfish are native to E. Asia delta's. She shined like a new penny.

Salt is messy, IMO. Shit was caking on top of the lid like a snow drift through evaporation.

After 10 yrs of lurking on this thread, I am glad I finally jumped in. I didn't want to start because I have too much to say, and don't make the time or don't have the time to vocalize. Notice my post count and time on the planet.

Yep and love to TRY and eat June bugs. My Oscar snarfs them down after stalking them.

In case you were curious... this is what fish sex looks like. This is my German Red Peacock cichlid pair. The female will go down to the rock, and shake her ass and deposit eggs onto the rock. The male will then come down and shake his ass, and fertilize the eggs. If all goes well, the female will then gather up as many eggs she can in her mouth, and hold them there for the next few weeks. There's multiple males in the tank though, so there's another equal sized OB peacock that wants a piece of the action, and the male GR has to keep chasing him away. Now that I know exactly when they dropped eggs, I can swoop her out of the tank before she spits out the babies, and collect all of them. Something, something, profit!

Again, if there's any friends here interested in starting a Malawi cichlid tank, I'd be happy to help you sometime later with a starter kit of 6-12 juveniles of sexy German Reds, depending on tank size. The absolute best way to start a tank is to add a bunch of them that are all the same size all at one time. That drastically reduces the chance of having one male establish complete dominance and kick every other males ass to the point they don't even show proper color. The more horny equal sized males in there competing at once, the less chance of total dominance. Without overcrowding of course, because that can really stress the fish out. Ideally you'd want multiple males and one/two females. All the males will constantly show great color because nobody is capable of establishing complete dominance, but everybody is horny and competitive.

^ I could watch that all day!!! Thanks for sharing!!

Meanwhile, I'm still trying to fix leaks in my koi pond.

FML

ROFL

Ciclid courting is also interesting. My pair of Jack Dempsey's would lock jaws and try and rip their faces off. I understand this is a test of strength for the gene pool.
https://animals.net/wp-content/uploa...-1-650x425.jpg

https://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article64.html

A very long article on "Over Engineered Reverse Flow Under Gravel Filter Systems" I finally found a version of it.

Cliff Notes: Layer bottom to top: UG filter plate, floss/filter media, eggcrate light diffuser, floss, eggcrate, window screen, laminate of gravel. Powerheads (I use penguin reverse flow 1140 x 3, 300g/hr each). It pushes the water up in water column (not down like most UG) ie down the tubes, up through the gravel, and traps the crap in the pre-filters on the 1140s. So I don't have to vacuum the gravel. Just change out the pre-filters 1 x per month. Done. Ohh and feed the dudes. Necessary.

This is for fresh water. He references an article that I read 20 years ago and implemented when I built my man cave and put a 125g in a wall. I haven't posted all the information because I knew it was going to take a lot of time.

Bottom Line: Using this system, I haven't cleaned my tank for +10 years. It is a self sustaining "pond" ecosystem. I do water changes, a bit to keep the water level up, change out my filters monthly, and feed. I don't vacuum, nothing. I check the water parameters 4x year and haven't had a fish die from disease in a long time. There has not been any meaningful variance in chemical values at all. Just have to feed the darn animals....sucks!

As an aquarist, my needs are simple: a moving painting, low maintenance. That is it. A center piece in my basement to where people and more importantly, clients, are intrigued by the moving art and puts them at ease. Also for my piece of mind and fun as a hobbyist. It is fun, knowing that I provide an environment to further lives...fish lives. I guess, in the covid state, mental health too.

I assume, if you have tapped into this thread, you understand the basics of fish husbandry: bio load, ph, nitrates, gH, water changes, filtration, water turnover ratios etc. Also, we create a "world" for animals to live in. Totally dependent on us. The fish are not idiots, they interact with people. Heck they chase my laser pointer just like my cats and dogs do.

Because the time it takes to set the system in place, it it not recommended for less then 55g nor a small beta tank:) The time spent to set it up, will pay off over time though, for a serious aquarist. I don't care what the Jewish Rabbi thinks.

I am not going to go into the benefits of the HUGE advantages that a UG filter provides over external filters. I have 24 ft sq of biological filtration. This allows me a ton of bio load ability and, hate to say it, neglect. (see low maintenance from above).

One of the down falls of UG, is for digger fish (cichlids), plants and rocks. Because of the egg crates, floss and screen, it is self contained. The gravel is a veneer for them to play with and move around. Not critical in making "holes" in the filtration.

You can have plants, in pots, on top of the substrate. I cut 2 liter bottles in half, drilled holes in the sides for circulation, tossed in some gravel and the plants. I love cichlids but destroy plants. The only ones that worked were: Anubias, Java Fern, and Anacharis.

Rocks create dead space underneath them because water can't circulate which creates ammonia, dead zone. With the lattice of egg crates and floss, this isn't a problem. I have 300 lbs of rock and hiding holes, Mbuna environment, for them to feel comfortable.

As the article mentions, I don't rely on just one filtration system. I have 2 Marineland hang on the back 400's. I just upgraded to 450 pros. Wow.

Fish like to play, so I put in a "water slide", a pond pump that circulates the water (current) that they can play in.

So, in conclusion, I can have 17' of fish in a 125g tank that will be "over crowded", because of the filtration that the Over Engineered Reverse Flow Under Gravel System provides. With all the pumps, I turn the water over 24x hour (4-10x is normal). The 24 ft sq bio filter that the UG provides, I can have a bunch of fish, at VERY low maintenance.

My moving picture will be even more artsy and fun.

I have a bunch more thoughts, but this post is long enough.

BTW, I re-did my tank, total renovation down to the glass, not done in 20 years, and added: Gold Severm, Acei, Tiger Oscar, Blood Parrot, Johanni, Auratus cichlids. On order: Frontosa, Flowerhorn, Green Terror, Yellow Labs, Electric Blue Acara and Rusty's.

It is going to be a busy tank.

My dinosaur fish died King Ghidorah :( I loved him he was a badass and I had him I think 6 years but I'm sad losing him

A pleco?

These are some I have in my tank and some on order.

Yes, a fresh water tank.

Ummmm... in your tank? This pic is from the Flowerhorn Cichlid World Championship CIPS 2017. You can see the still pic above at the 2:50 video below. Are you really a World Championship Flowerhorn owner?

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Aquarists community Canada?

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.p...00790385623731

China International Pet Show (CIPS)??

Actually no and I actually said his name was King Ghidorah, but his name was Rodan and very fluent swimmer. Rodan was a dinosaur fish and King Ghidorah was a dragon fish and he died like a year ago :( I'm hoping to find them again but there just isn't any place good near by and **** you Walmart for knocking out mom and pop shops that sold fish and then quit selling them yourselves. Again **** YOU Walmart.

Rodan would swim around all majestic like and King Ghidorah was kinda clunky and not graceful at all because Dragon fish have bad eye sight but dinosaur fish have good eye sight.

I kept a Cichlid tank for years. Pretty aggressive and territorial. Many make the mistake of cramming as many in the tank they can fit, and then what happens is they'll lose them to predation and stress related issues. Got to give them plenty of room and hiding places for them to call thrir own. Do that and you'll get years of enjoyment. I was able to successfully breed them.

Of course that is my award winning Flowerhorn:) That is not my fish. I should have been more specific. A Flowerhorn is one of the fish I have on order. They arrived at Petco DOA. An aside, the most expensive fish sold was a Flowerhorn in Taiwan for $600k :rockon: It might have been that fish.

All the pics I have put up are stock photos to give an idea what I am trying to accomplish. Some I have, some, in theory are on order.

I have some nice pics of my setup on my phone. I can't seem to get them to download to my computer. I will once I break the code.

I believe that is a Dinosaur Bichir. They are almost blind and deaf. Nocturnal bottom hunters. They would go well in a cichlid tank.

How big did he get?

I have had cichlid tanks for +30 years. Your are correct in aggressiveness and territorial. There many articles written about the "Over Populated" theory though. It requires the right set up. The premise is that they are so busy trying to run off fish from their territory that no one fish can establish it as theirs. I am sure you have seen pics of these tanks. Very active. I am not sure as to the stress part. I have had over populated tanks for years. No problem if you have the correct tank set up and select the right fish.

The opposite of the spectrum is fewer and they establish their hidy hole, and NO ONE can approach or get beat up. That is also stress.

I don't know if you have followed the thread on my tank. 125g with +300 lbs of rocks to include ~30 hidy holes between the rock formations and the pipes/tubes (tiling/pvc) ranging from 5" and down. I can turn the water over 24x/hour. The massive filtration allows a large bio load. I have not had any diseases or deaths (other than age) in 20 yrs. My water conditions have been almost perfect for cichlids due to my set up.

I think the key is that they all grow up together. I have had many community tanks with my cichlids : giant danios, neons, cardinals, angels, gourami, beta, barbs...about anything you can think of....if they grow up together! They are not food or enemies but buddies.

Don't throw in an Oscar/Dempsey et al. that has been living in a tank by himself into a community tank. Mayhem.

Just observations and thoughts.

This tank is a BLAST.

It is not dog fighting, it is fish fighting. Very active. I can sit and watch, not for hours, but you get the jist.

I wish I could post pics. I am digit dumb. I got pics on my phone and can up load for emails and whatsapp. But I can't seem to upload to the CP. I have all of the pics on my office computer. Dunno.

The Flowerhorn and the Oscar, all of 2" each kind of go at each other. But in a 125g, they get lost. The Flowerhorn, Acei and the Blue Acara are going to be show stoppers. The Johanni are dicks. But again with all the rock and 125g, they get lost also.

After a month, all fish are healthy, happy and doing what Cichlids do.

What Cichlid forum do you use?

Seems like the FishForums is one of the largest.

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Largest doesn't mean the best and homey.