I didn't intentionally look to see anything about anybody. If I could do it over again, I wish I wouldn't have seen that and guessed that his death might be coming.

Thanks for the tip about paying attention. You done?

There has been much foreshadowing, but no need to pound people over the head with it in a spoiler-free thread if they haven't already figured it out.

I really like the way the show has handled that and some other stories in a way that is very similar to the books. One of the great things about the books is that GRRM is an incredibly subtle writer. He will give you clues and hints about things but won't always come right out and say it. That's part of why these books are great to discuss in forums like this because there is so much subtle depth to them that you can't get it all in one reading (or one viewing of an episode on HBO) and there is a lot of wiggle room for varous theories to pop up.

Renly being gay is a good example. Many book readers were surprised by the Renly and Loras scene in seaon 1 because GRRM never once says in the books that Renly and Loras are gay. But Loras is the Knight of Flowers, Renly's kingsguard is the rainbow guard with each having a different color cloak. Renly and Margery never consummated their marriage. Plus there are a host of sly jokes or references by other characters that hint at it. When you go back and put it all together, it is 100% obvious they are gay, but if you just read through somewhat quickly the first time, you could easily have missed that as many people did. Love these books!

On to a new subject of great importance...Are we going to get to see Dany naked this season or what??

I thought she would wear a gown in this episode that bared one breast (based on the books), but HBO inexplicably did not have her do that even though it was one of the few times the nudity would have been right out of the book. That makes me wonder if Dany has negotiated having any more nude scenes out of her contract. I hope not, she's hot!

I figured they would have done that but perhaps instead of a few brief moments of nudity, her walking around with her tit hanging out seemed a bit much. Which is too bad.

When they pulled out the blue gown, I thought we were going to get some Dany boobage, but no such luck!

The beauty of this show has been it's unpredictability. Theon's intent appears obvious, but who the heck knows? There are a number of directions things could go.

All talk of aired episodes are great. You haven't seen the latest episode? Stay away from the thread. Just like the rest of the media threads.

All talk from the books is okay as long as its aired on tV also.

THIS!

Just don't go close to the spoiler edge. How is that so ****ing hard to understand?

Theon burns down The Wall.

There, assholes. Nothing more to spoil.

LMAO Dumbledore dies... suck it Potter pussies!

Yeah that statement was highlighted "who said anything about the Lannister's?" in the episode. The son given a minor assignment. The hard on that the daughter and dad have for the Stark's. The soldiers leaving the base, a kid in charge. You dont even have to be paying attention to figure it out.

But the difference is I have no clue whats going to happen. I haven't read the books or looked at spoilers. Just speculation.

I sure hope the Starks end up on top of the Lannisters, the evil little King dies slowly, the imp survives and they have a sequel :p, get Jamie out of jail and let his smartass sword liven up the plot lines, The daughter gets to be Queen and we get to see more Dragon Mom's boobage.

Man, his Dad must be proud now.

On top of that, his sister lets him finish what he started on that horse ride to Pyke. Hawt.

now were talking!:p

Foreshadowing is great, but nobody wants it pointed out for them. Either you figure it out on your own, or you think back and realize "I should have seen that coming."

Having someone point it out is a spoiler, IMO. It's why I never answered pete's question in the first place.

Just wait until Tyrion gets skull****ed by the baby dragons as Arya launches herself from a catapult all the way back to Winterfell, because she's small and can do it.

You're going to love it when the Knight's Watch break into Monty Python's Lumberjack routine, too. NEVER saw that one coming.

Sorry. Spoiler.

Things do get much funnier north of the wall once Santa Claus and his reindeer arrive.

Keepin' it in the fam, Lannister style!

Sorry, a couple things slipped past me.

Jon Snow says he fought and killed a "white?" What is he referring to?


I had difficulty understanding Jorah. Did he tell Dany that he loved her or something? Why were her eyes welling up?

Thanks.

I assumed he meant white walker.

And Jorah didn't say he loved her (something about her being a good, kind-hearted queen), but it's getting pretty obvious that he does.

He killed that white walker in Commander Mormont's quarters. That's what he was referring to.

Wight. But yes, he's talking about the white walker he killed in Mormont's quarters.

He told Dany that he looks at her and still can't believe she's real. It was clear he wants her. She realized Xaro was right about Jorah being in love with her so it got a little awkward.

Wights are the infantry in the white walker population. They are basically like zombies, unthinking. If you remember back to the first episode of season 1, those white walkers used strategy and were much smarter, so are not considered wights but something else which escapes me.

OK i didn't think that thing he killed was a white walker. I don't remember it looking like either of the white walkers we've seen so far.

Yeah, he killed a wight. Not a white (walker). If he killed a white walker, they would make a bigger deal of it and probably even be calling him something cool, like Snow Killer, or slayer, or something.

In the books, the main evil beings are the Others or White Walkers, and the zombies they create out of dead people are the Wights. Jon killed a Wight. We have only seen the actual Others twice, once in the very first episode, and once when Jon saw one of them (or what appearerd to be one of them) taking Craster's son that he had left as a sacrifice.

Duh. Right. He didn't kill a white walker. He killed a wight/zombie that came back from the dead.

It was just another case of the writers using a term from the book that was never explained in the show. Luckily they don't do it too often. The most egregious example was Melisandre calling Davos the "Onion Knight" before she gave birth. If folks are interested, I can spoiler tag the explanation for that.

I'm pretty intrigued by the the whole Qarth storyline right now. It seems like a normal town but you can tell something is off. Who the hell were those old twins? How did that masked woman know Jorah?

And what's the deal with the big black guy? I hope he doesn't try to turn Dany against Jorah.

From next week's preview it looks like they might try to steal a ship. That might not be a good idea.

Qarth is a weird place. Pyat Pree is the creepy warlock guy (and one of the 13 that greeted her at the gates) who did the trick and made a copy of himself appear. He invited Dany to the House of the Undying to visit the warlocks of Qarth.

The identity of the masked lady is a mystery (as it was in the books too). It is interesting that she knew who Jorah was, and of course she is right about how EVERYONE will want Dany's dragons because dragons are fire made flesh, and fire is power.

Not sure where they are going with Xaro (the big black guy), his story on the show is a little different from the books so far. We'll see.

And finally Hawk gets the gold star.

I could really see people being confused as hell about some of this stuff if they hadn't read the books.

"Wait a minute...why the hell does that one have glowing eyes? WTF is a wight?"

All in due time, kiddos...

And Stannis referring to him being both a hero and a smuggler at one point.

They don't do it often, but they're going to have to do it even more as the story moves along, lest the series stretch out a decade.

Yeah, didn't know there was a difference between white walkers and wights. Thought they were one in the same.

Are these the "old twins" you're referring too?

http://images.wikia.com/gameofthrone...yat_double.jpg

Minor book

Beauty job of casting. Creepy little ****er.

Same here.

Getting a bit boring.

grrrrr...

That's kind of a fantasy geek thing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wight

The White Walkers are much more frightening. They're a race of their own, and they're in charge. The only time we've had a good look at one was in the beginning of the first episode. The wights, zombies or whatever are their underlings.

Probably the thing I like the least about Martin's creation is his naming. It's bad enough that he has this sweeping fantasy epic peppered with characters named Jon, Jaime, and three (!) characters named Robb or Robert, but he really couldn't find another synonym for 'undead monster' - ghoul, perhaps - besides a homophone of another, mostly-similar kind of undead monster?

It may suck, but remember that he's patterned much of the series after the War of the Roses. How many Johns, Henrys, and Richards were involved?

Tons, of course, but that was a time of actual history when something like 70% of male babies had one of four different names (believe me, I've spent plenty enough time keeping track of the Matildas and Henrys of the middle ages). This is an invented fantasy world with invented fantasy names, and I would think that he'd want distinctive character names to help the audience keep them straight. It's the same reason sitcoms and hour-dramas on TV don't have multiple characters named (for example) Mike or Kathy, even though real-life offices and classrooms usually do.

Plus, being fantasy, having that real-life element dropped in is kind of jarring. Maybe that's just me.

And there are plenty of Jaqen H'ghar's, Xaro Xhoan Daxos', and Pyat Pree's (etc.)

The people of Westeros tend to have somewhat familiar names. Others are more "foreign" intentionally. Never bothered me.

I don't think the books actually refer to the Others as White Walkers. In the book it is the Others and the wights isn't it? I could be wrong. I thought I read that the show did not want to use the term "the Others" because I guess it was used on Lost (not sure, never watched Lost).

Keep your fail to the KU threads please.

the LOST thing may have been part of it. But I think David Benioff has said before that they wanted to avoid confusion. By saying "Others" all the time they were worried that people would constantly be asking "What others? Who do they mean?"

Because everyone is "other" to one faction or geographical group or another. But, yeah, I'm sure LOST had something to do with it as well. I guess you have to worry about all that kind of stuff, but it really feels like an unnecessary adjustment. Calling them The Others is so creepy! I love it. And I'm a huge LOST fan.

I think season 2 has been fantastic so far, look forward to Sunday nights all week. Arya's story line is getting really good. I'm sure I'm not the only one, but I have this bad feeling that Tywinn(that's his name right?) knows exactly who she is. He seems to be more calm and calculating, like Tyrion is. I could be way wrong, but I almost feel like the Lannisters are someone you could root for if it weren't for Joffrey, and the incest.

In this, your guess is as good as those who have read the books. I won't spoiler it by saying what does occur in the books, but the whole Tywin/Arya is a total deviation. It's one of the more interesting changes, and I'm really curious to see how it plays out. I have no clue how they're going to juggle it.

I think it was a necessary adjustment, based on the reasons you've given. "The Others" would be confusing since the narrative jumps around from faction to faction. And saying "the Others" to refer to the mysterious, unknown 'people' lurking in a uncharted area would have made me think of Lost every time.

And I actually like the change from "the Others" to "the White Walkers". It fits well in a fantasy setting, and it sounds really cool when said aloud in an English accent.

Yeah, the phrasing is great. I like the term "White Walkers" a lot. If it had to change I'm glad it's something like that and not "Creatures From Beyond" or "Whooziwhatzees."

Or "lamebrains".

Or "Popsicles."

Only about 75 pages until I finish "Clash of Kings" and am ready to dive right into "Storm of Swords". If you haven't read the books you should strongly consider it.

Storm of Swords is awesome. I couldn't put it down. I would keep it with me driving to work and back just to read it while stuck at traffic lights.

I might have shot out your rear view mirror while waiting behind you at a green light.
Sorry man, if I'd have known it was you that wouldn't have happened.

Yeah, they refer to them as the white walkers in the book fairly frequently, IIRC.

EDIT: The GOT wiki suggests that the wildlings refer to them as White walkers but the folks living in Westeros generally don't.

A Feast for Crows is a little weird for me when they don't have names on all the sub stories like the previous 3, just titles.

If I remember, the book goes more traditional with the named titles later in the book. I think he only uses the goofy titles when introducing a new POV character.

That's my recollection as well. The titles refer to the characters. Like nicknames. But it's still the same format as the other books. At least for the most part.

I can't remember exactly, but there might be a couple that are literally titles and not names of or references to the POV characters.

They all refer tot he POV character, but sometimes they give insight into something about that character. This is the no-spoiler thread, but one example from the 5th book is...

Cool. Once again, thanks Hawk.

That's how I remembered it as well. Appreciate all your clarifications in this discussion.

And for people HAVE NOT read the books, you really DO NOT want to click on Hawk's spoiler tag.

Eh, chances are they wouldn't know WTF he is talking about. :)

Regarding the title issue, he seems to stick with character names most of the time unless he's 1) introducing a new POV character or 2) doing a single chapter from a POV that isn't a main character. He never did that much in the early books, but starts doing it a lot in the later ones.

Ugh. I'm re-reading books 1-4 before going into book 5, and hadn't expected a spoiler that far ahead in this thread...

Did you click on it? He warned everyone that it was a book 5 spoiler.

Huh...I actually didn't even notice that until just now. Son of a...

It's labeled a spolier and you think its not a spoiler?

He's exhausted all of his reading powers reading GRRM. Leave him alone!

I didn't blame Hawk - it was my own fault. Just annoyed that I read it. I didn't expect a book 5 spoiler in the non-spoiler thread about season 2, but if I'd paid more attention, it wouldn't have been an issue...

cool beans.

No new episode tonight?

Should be. Pretty sure my DVR's recording one.

Ugghhh.. I was looking at the wrong HBO channel --- as you were :shake:

Not a spoiler, just an FYI, tonight's epsisode really strayed from the books

Tonight was the first time where I thought it might be better to have not read the first two books. The departure from the book went across several story lines. I have a major case of the "WTF's" and "SMH's".

was it so bad, that it'll be difficult to get back on track?

Naw, a lot of it looks like someone taking a shortcut to a destination by going offroad though some farmer's field.

I think I can see where they are going with most of the differences, but the main one I hope they don't screw up is Jon Snow. He has some important scenes coming up that I really hope they don't alter completely, but it's hard to tell exactly where his changes from the book are going.

The departures from the book in several story lines were probably done to make production easier. This was mentioned in the spoiler thread and makes sense.