A Chad Pennington/Will Shields debate. I knew the day would come if I was patient.

LMAO!

This is what we deserve for 2-14

...

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Add Flacco.

Brees and Favre were at the top of the 2nd round. And Staubach would have been first round if it hadn't been for the whole Navy thing.

Amazing how the true fans just don't ****ing get it...year after year...completely ignorant.

It is an overwhelming statistic, yet people seriously think that you are just as likely to stumble across a late round quarterback.

With the moves already made, and if they can pull Sean Smith out of the FA market to play opposite Flowers then I see then taking Geno. It's looking like it's coming down to Geno Smith and Milliner as the two obvious pics. We can get ILB in the later rounds or maybe pick up a decent find in FA as well.

I'll give the new regime this, they are building and building quickly to win now and build upon it for the future. Mad props for what's been going on in KC!

I did. He is in the list as he is tied for tenth. The numbers are still the same.

this is just a flat out ****ing miserable board

***NEWSFLASH***

you ****ing morons are never going to have it 100% your way

this board will not be happy until they appoint ChiefsPlanet.com GM and Head Coach. It's ****ing ridiculous.

It's a pain in the ass to even read anything Chiefs related anymore. You guys are so off the deep end ON BOTH SIDES it sickens me.

****. Do any of you have any joy in life?

I'm pretty sure EVERYONE wants a franchise QB.

EVERYONE.

what if there is just flat out not a franchise QB to take in this draft?

Remember, this board was all for taking Jimmy Clausen at #5 the Eric Berry year AND Mel Kiper had him #3 on his big board and the #1 QB on his big board.

ANDY REID TOOK DONOVAN MCNABB AND DONOVAN MCNABB WAS CONSIDERED A REACH AND WAS BOOED OFF THE STAGE HIS FIRST YEAR IN PHILLY.

If Reid doesn't take Geno #1 overall, there is a reason for it. The reason is...HE DOESN'T THINK GENO IS A FRANCHISE QB.

It sucks. It ****ing sucks. Everyone KNOWS we need a franchise QB. Pretty sure Andy ****ing Reid knows we need a franchise QB.

You can't just wave your magic Harbaugh wand at the draft class and make a franchise QB prospect appear.

If there isn't one, there isn't one. I'm pretty sure Reid isn't trolling ChiefsPlanet.com and not taking Geno Smith just to piss everyone off...

I've never seen, IN THE LAST 10 YEARS, a draft where EVERY "EXPERT" SAYS...there is no ELITE QB.

So you guys can all be like "he's a reerun", and "oh he's a reerun", and "oh look, he's a reerun."

but when push comes to shove, if Geno isn't #1 there is a reason for it and the reason isn't Andy Reid is trolling ChiefsPlanet.com

JFC

That's it in a nutshell

but you just don't draft a guy at #1 to draft a guy...

2009 all the drafturbators were like BPA! BPA! YOU NEVER DRAFT FOR NEED!

Now it's QB or everyone should be fired and all the fans should quit the franchise. Everyone that thinks that way is a ****ing moron.

It was just our luck to stumble into the #1 pick the year there was no viable QB to take at #1. Just because we've all brainwashed ourselves into thinking Geno Smith is the best QB ever doesn't mean he actually is...

when people who are paid to determine who the top prospects are and EVERYONE determines the QB class is mediocre at best and has no elite prospects...

I'm pretty sure the band of geniouses on ChiefsPlanet, despite what they may think, aren't, at the very most, any more intelligent than Todd ****ing McShay.

You may think your knowledge is > Todd McShay...

BUT I REALLY ****ING DOUBT IT. I'M SORRY.

I wanted a QB more than anything. If we draft a QB, regardless of who it is, at #1 I'm immediately buying that jersey because it will give me HOPE for the first time since Dick Vermeil...

but you guys are being a bunch of ****ing sore ass losers and I feel bad for all of your pathetic lives

Can we go ahead and add "Bank On It" to CP lexicon?

Well, here is what I want to know:

What are the true fans going to do when Reid takes Geno?

Are they going to keep this "defer to authority" mindset that is seeping into literally every QB thread on this board?

Or are they going to bitch and moan because they've built up this idea that Geno isn't worth a 1st round pick?

If Reid takes Geno true fans need to ****ing get in line and start goose-stepping...because Reid's word is LAW, bitches.

If anyone on this board tries to poo-poo a QB we take #1, they should immediately be banned.

yeah

I know

but if there isn't ****ing one to take there isn't ****ing one to take

you can't just point your magic wand at a guy, take him #1, and say "look! look! #1 pick he's THE franchise!!!!"

pretty sure Andy Reid isn't trolling the fan base and passing on Andrew Geno Luck Smith just to keep us in misery so we can watch Alex Smith rattle off 8-8's at best

pretty sure he's ALWAYS addressed his QB position and I'm pretty sure he drafted guys like Feely and Kolb when he had QB's already and shuffled them away for great compensation

I'm pretty sure Andy ****ing Reid and John ****ing Dorsey realize how important a QB is...

so if they have the #1 pick and they don't take one I'm pretty ****ing sure they don't see Geno as an elite ****ing prospect

IT SUCKS, IT REALLY DOES...ONLY THE CHIEFS STUMBLE INTO THE #1 PICK WHEN THERE IS NO #1 PROSPECT...

but it's not ****ing Andy Reid's fault that's the case...so calm the **** down you jizz guzzling AIDS needle heroin addicts

If Reid jumps at Smith, there is a reason. The converse holds true as well. If he doesn't, the Genoholics on this board need to realize there is obviously a reason as well.

I will defer to the coach who has made average QBs good and good QBs great.

But I am still betting if KC takes the #1 it will not be a QB.

I don't know what the **** a true fan is or what the **** kind of fan you consider yourself...

but if Reid trades a 2 for Smith with the idea he's taking the other Smith #1, benches G. Smith for a year to "learn the ropes" while Alex game manages his way into an 8-8 season or so giving the rest of the team an idea how it feels like to win...and then we peddle off A. Smith for a few picks in 2014 while we give Geno an entire year to work out his mechanical flaws while learning the playbook and the NFL and the coaching staff...

I'll think they are god damn geniouses.

Plain and simple. If they think Geno has #1 talent but isn't NFL ready and needs a year to learn the NFL but they wanted the locker room to have "hope" and learn how to win behind a proven game manager...

it's a ****ing genious move

but if ANDY REID OF ALL PEOPLE doesn't take Geno or Barkley or any QB at #1 I am going to give him the benefit of the doubt because ANDY REID DRAFTS QBs. ANDY REID AND JOHN DORSEY REALIZE YOU NEED A QB TO WIN IN THE NFL.

So if all of the "experts" and then many of the teams pass on these QB's...there is a ****ing reason.

We were all dumbfounded in 2010 when Clausen kept falling, and falling, and falling, and falling right past our 2nd round pick when his college coach was our OC...

WE EVEN GOT A MOTHER **** YOU SCOTT PIOLI OUT OF IT!

but it looks like EVERYONE knew what they were doing when they passed on that guy!

so calm the **** down you want-to-be armchair GMs...you honestly aren't as ****ing smart as you think you are

Exactly.

If they take Geno at #1 I'll be ****ing thrilled.

If they don't, I'll at least understand the fact that Andy Reid & John Dorsey didn't feel like there was a franchise QB in this draft. It ****ing happens.

Aaron Rodgers' don't grow on trees. They just aren't available every ****ing year in the draft.

Andy Reid isn't passing on Geno Smith to troll ChiefsPlanet.com

I think at the end of the day you have to take the history of this franchise into account. We havnt drafted a qb in the first for 30 years. We also havnt had a lot of success. You can point to the 90s or 2003 but thats really a pretty small amount. Some fans are just tired of losing, they see how other franchises do it and take note of history and how the overwhelming majority did it with first round picks.

When you dont get results you lose the trust of the fan base. And can you blame them? The results speak for themselves. This isnt the patriots or niners - who basically have no reason to complain ever. This is a feeble franchise who has done it the same way for years. I would also suggest that most of this board are pretty knowledgeable. They understand schemes, techniques and even the process of scouting players. So when they determine Geno to be a franchise qb and we so happen to have the first pick they get excited. Then this new gm and coach go against their wishes, make a trade and seem to be doing exactly what has happened for years. It would seem to be ground hog day. Forgive those who would suggest that 30 years of results is enough reason to not blindly follow. But in my eyes that have every reason to be cautious.

Then you have the 'true fans'. Fans who would blindly follow this team to oblivion and those that to a lesser extent play the wait and see game. Well a lot including myself have played that game before, only to be let down time and time again. Many have gotten sick of doing it that way. They get angry when the same recycled team building method is used again and again. They suggest a ways in which this new gm and coach should best go about the rebuilding process. Not all agree on the finer points, but a large portion agree that you must take a round one qb. And most would argue the best is Geno. Yet then they are.met with "oh you dont know better than reid or dorsey". Well excuse me, but weve been here before. Gm of the decade, superbowl winning coach dick v. Some fans arnt so willing to blindy trust a gm and head coach. You people who disagree with them have to see that, just as maybe those who want Geno have to see your point of view
But i would argue that while.many are quick to spout off how Dorsey and Reid have a history of doing this and that and being winners, the chiefs dont. We dont trust our history just as much a you all seem to trust Reid and Dorsey. It goes both ways.

Now while i am angry at the A Smith trade and want Geno Smith, i am pleased with the last couple of days results. Im off the ledge for now. However i will not blindly follow these guys. I was happy as **** to see them hired, but the history of the Chiefs, the history of super bowl winning qbs and my history as a fan makes me cautious.

I believe we got A.Smith for the ability to take a QB whether it is at 1 or if we trade back he is a stop gap and it isn't unreasonable to think we would invest that much into the worst part of our team. We have flexibilty we locked up our WR and LT. If we are able to sign a D-lineman and Corner before the draft why couldn't we take Geno? If we are to take Dorsey at his word, to build a winner you have to solidify the QB position what better way to do it then with our first pick plus trading a pick for a solid above average QB. A.Smith will make this team better and if he is half the professional the 9ers fans say he is he will help a rookie QB learn to play the position the right way. And just maybe Reid and Dorsey know what they are doing.

I'd probably have a heart attack...

If they draft Geno to sit for a year and learn the WCO, I will love this staff.
I would be all for it, even with the #1 overall pick.

But wait! #1 overall picks always start the first year! /guys who know nothing about football

He's a perfect WCO guy.

This is what gives me the most hope, perhaps foolishly. I see a radical shift within the Chiefs from past history. Once you set aside interim GMs, Scooter's tenure as General Manager was the shortest in Chiefs history. Clark is willing to give his front office time to win, but not too much time. I think both Reid and Dorsey know this and will make sure that we are stacked and set at the most important position on the team.

In today's NFL, you need two "starting caliber" QBs.

Dorsey and Reid aren't going to make the same mistakes that Scooter did and seal their fate by putting all their eggs in a single proverbial QB basket.

If anything the past few days should tell you, its that these guys are more concerned with picking up talent and not gum wrappers.

I'm not even using "True Fan" anymore as it painfully obvious that the vast majority of this fan base is drinking whatever Kool-Aid John Dorsey-Jones is mixing up. From now on, its just "Chief Fan".
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Pining for O-lineman and other team's castoff QB's is the ChiefWay Willie

This is 2013, not 2004 or 1994 or 1964. The #1 overall pick is expected to start DAY ONE and contribute. If that player can't start and contribute, you've wasted the pick.

Only two guys since 1995's KiJana Carter (ACL tear) taken number one overall didn't start immediately: Tim Couch (15 games) and you guessed it, JaMarcus Russell (4 games).

The #1 overall player better start from Day One or you've just ****ed your team.

It's amazing that you can call anyone a True Fan.

Carson Palmer.

You're right, I missed him.

So three guys since 1996 and two of them sucked ass.

Not good odds.

Funny...part of the argument for Mark Sanchez was that he should sit for a year ...maybe even two..before playing...that's with us taking him at 3.

But, now there is a problem having Geno sit....even though we have our game manager/stopgap already in place.

I never thought that Sanchez should sit.

He proved that he shouldn't have sat by being a part of two AFC Championship games.

Who said he should sit?

Eli Manning.

Carson Palmer, too

sorry but this is just silly.


so you are saying that if a player is taken at one overall and doesnt start or even play a game for a year THEN plays at an all pro level for ten years wins you a super bowl and is a first ballot hall of famer THAT TEAM WASTED THE PICK?


that is just ****ing nuts

Grooming the QB has been a part of the discusssion since the day I joined here. CC has advocated it as has Milkman. And yes, the very name of Sanchez was included in that dialouge.
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many people said he should sit.

We just franchised Albert and are supposedly looking hard at finding a starting CB2 in free agency.

If we keep the #1 pick and use it, we're gonna get a guy who's going to sit on the bench for a few games. Guaran****inteed.

And there's nothing wrong with that. We're a unique #1 overall pick. I can't remember the last team who had that pick and was so limited in their options because they already had a great LT and TWO pretty good pass rushers.

This.

Rather UNlimited. I believe that Dorseyis setting things up to take the highest rated player on his draft board and thats what smart teams do. Free agency is the place to fill needs the draft is the place to take the BPA.

You can't go strictly BPA in the draft.

Dude, nearly every guy taken in the past 15 years at #1 overall started from Day One. Jamarcus Russell didn't and sucked. Tim Couch didn't and sucked.

Eli didn't start Day One but Coughlin admitted later it was a mistake to make him sit on the bench. I don't know if the Bengals feel the same but they basically wasted an entire year of Palmer's career.

If you're going #1 overall, that player had better damn sure start from Day One.

Period.

Well I'm sorry, that's just plain ****ing stupid.

If they stay at #1, they had better take a guy with immediate starting ability if not immediate impact.

Anything else is just plain unacceptable.

On the contrary, When talking BPA that is assuming positional value is taken into account.

CB Dee Milliner

count on it

Then you're gonna wind up cutting somebody to put your #1 pick in a good position.

And THAT is way more reeruned than picking a guy and making him wait his turn.

Unless you're one of those people who think we can get a truckload of picks for someone like Tamba Hali or Branden Albert. Personally, I don't think there are any teams out there who would bite on that. Not for the price we'd be asking for.

And no, we're not coming down. Just one mid first rounder isn't good enough. Not when you're making the trade just to get rid of a guy so you can start your #1 overall pick.

That's short sighted.

If a QB has a good career, who cares about his first year?

I'm a lot more interested in years 3-15

That BPA strategy sounds great and all. It really does.

It's perfect when the team's foundation is in place. When you've got your LT, good starters on defense, and that other thing. QB. Yeah, that's pretty important.

Going to a BPA draft strategy is ****ing reeruned if you don't have a QB.

Eli Manning sat and that worked out pretty well...

I'm not naive enough to think Geno will be the pick at #1 but if they do draft him and sit him for a year, even 3rd string him a la Palmer, I'm 100% ok with that and would be a happy camper all season long regardless of W/L results.

Then there are basically 2 positions in this draft where you can realistically start from day 1. CB and DE.

We all know there is basically a 3 year curve for a defensive lineman.....so his first year is going to be meh at best. And taking a CB at #1 to be your #2 is a little rough. What's the learning curve for a rookie CB? How'd Joe Haden do his first year? Patrick Peterson (remove his PR/KR stats)?

BPA "on our board"

Surely, they set their board partially by need.

Look at GBs draft history....when their defense sucked, they spent damn near every pick on defense.

This is exactly why I believe Dorsey will do anything in his power to trade back, even if that means accepting something well below "value".

Any team picking #1 in 2013 needs to draft a guy that starts immediately. The #2 pick will certain get an immediate starter, as will most teams from 3 to probably 32.

Only the Chiefs are going to pick a guy at #1 that has to sit?

I would think the QB position would get several bonus points in anyones rating system so who's to say a QB is not at the top of their draft board.

I just don't understand why so many want us to use 1.1 on a backup QB.

1.1 should be an immediate starter with probowl potential.

We wouldn't be drafting a QB at 1.1 to be a "backup", and you know that. If that's what happened, the Chiefs would be grooming him to be the face of our franchise for the decade or more to come, hopefully. Although it's been a trend in the past few years for rookie QBs to start immediately, it's not the only option.

Don't be too hard on Hog Farmer it's possible his fingers may be slippery and he typed that by mistake.

No, what I mean is he has the POTENTIAL to be a career backup. If this was not the case there would be team splooging all over him but there's not.

Stick to "milking" pigs

The Giants are a perfect example. They signed Kurt Warner to a 2 year deal and started him for the opener and te first 9 games. They even had a winning record when they pulled him and Eli went 1-6 the rest of the year.

Blame it on the lineup of players coming out. No Ndamukong Suhs. No Von Millers. No Calvin Johnsons. Sorry, that's the way the ball bounces.

Better to draft a QB and let him sit for a year than have to suffer through history alongside the 2008 Miami Dolphins as the only team dumb enough to pick a LT at #1 if you are slightly skiddish on the playability of the QBs this year.

And before you bring up Orlando Pace, remember that Jake Long and Luke Joeckel are not even ****ing CLOSE to being the kind of player Orlando Pace is or was.

Eli played in nine and started seven games his rookie season.

Coughlin later stated that he should have started from day one.

If you draft a QB #1, trade for a QB with the #2, you're essentially heading into the season with the same exact roster that just went 2-14.

I don't see how that's even an option.

The biggest issue Geno Smith has is that he isn't Andrew Luck. He is a top ten prospect could go #1 through 10. I don't see him getting past the Cardinals in this draft. So he has the potential to be a starter for a long time in this league. He needs to take advantage of any and all opportunities he gets.

Versus drafting an OT and moving Albert over to LG as the "big upgrade"

OHHHH VERY NICE!

When Reid drafted McNabb, he sat him for half his rookie season for Doug Peterson...our current offensive coordinator.

Reid also never went into a season with as little as only Alex Smith at QB.

He even said that he wants a quarterback that can win games for him, not just a game manager.

again, that is just silly.


like i said its about the totality of a players career. not year 1

This + Dorsey has said Albert is a LT not a guard and also healthy to be our starting LT this year.

Not true.

They've already signed Husain Abdullah. I wouldn't be surprised if he's our starting FS next year.

They can realistically sign a #2 CB and a DE in FA.

Maybe....just maybe Dorsey and Reid see a lot of what happened with last years team as a result of horrible coaching and QB play. If that's the case....they could realistically use this year to draft their QBoTF and see what the current roster (plus a couple of moves) nets them.

It's called "building the foundation"

name the guy

close to the same roster.


well except at the MOST IMPORTANT POSITION.


and better coaching

Try Eli Manning and Carson Palmer. What the ****?

WHO GIVES A **** IF HE STARTS OR DOESN'T START IMMEDIATELY? I ONLY CARE IF HE IS A FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK.

Jeez, you are way overboard on this.

Option A) Draft a QB #1 overall, he starts immediately and fails for lack of proper handling and development.

Option B) Draft a QB #1 overall, sit him for a year while he learns and adjusts, goes to 7 straight pro bowls and wins Super Bowl MVP.

You do realize that you are saying Option B isn't even on the table, right? That you would ONLY choose option A, 100% of the time.

No, it's not. It's about immediate impact to your franchise.

If you choose a guy at #1 overall that needs to sit a year before playing in the NFL, you've chosen unwisely.

This is especially true in 2013, since contract lengths have been shortened.

This isn't TWO THOUSAND ****ING THREE.

If a team chooses a player at #1 overall that has to sit out a ****ING YEAR, that player was OVERDRAFTED.

we will just have to agree to disagree here.

what if he sits 8 games?

I disagree when it comes to the QB position. You draft for long-term potential, not immediate gratification.