Held out and got a better deal. Bought a new 125 with a stand for $400 out the door today. They're gonna drill it for me, too. Aquarium Wholesale in Olathe at the Great Mall.

Now I just have to decide what to do. Fresh or salt.

It's a dirted tank, so the plants will have actual dirt to grow in, and I won't have to dose fertilizers all the time, which is kind of a pain in the ass.

Setup:
30g long
Miracle Gro Organic Potting Soil
Potash
Dolomite
Red Clay Powder
Black Blasting Sand
DIY Carbon Dioxide Reactor w/Nano Diffuser

I already detailed the light conversion I did, so here's the setup for the rest of the tank:

The edges were oak (bleh), so I taped off the glass and repainted it black.
http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/g...9/03b8c36a.jpg

Just a bit of potash in the bottom (provides potassium):
http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/g...9/29af8c55.jpg

Dolomite (for calcium and magnesium):
http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/g...9/9e291323.jpg

Lined it with the washed sand so that you don't see the layers of dirt from the front:
http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/g...9/87cd9cb8.jpg

Mixed the powdered clay in with the potting soil and set to aquascape it a bit:
http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/g...9/4edc0d77.jpg

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/g...9/24c29345.jpg

Got some manzanita driftwood to put in it. Had to tie down the big piece with some rock that I put under the substrate so it wouldn't float off.
http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/g...9/85ba49ca.jpg

View from the top after I covered the potting soil mixture with the blasting sand (the sand keeps the dirt from flying all over the tank and making muddy water... and it looks better):
http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/g...9/ed47562b.jpg

Quickly placed the plants in there before they dried out:
http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/g...9/8dfd3157.jpg

Hairgrass, crypts, Argentine swords, red ludwigia and hygrophilia:
http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/g...9/ef8cac75.jpg

Final setup w/fish (the sponge filter on the right is from a mature tank, and will be taken out as soon as it seeds the new filters):
http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/g...9/db0513a5.jpg

The plants are melting away a little bit, which is to be expected right now. The leaves that are on there will die away as the plant puts down new roots, and new growth will take their place. In the meantime, I've got laaaaaaarge water changes every day to keep the nutrients down. That will subside in a week or two. And when the dwarf hairgrass in front grows out, it should carpet the whole bottom of the tank very well. The floating plant is some hornwort that will be removed, as it's ugly and messy. I'll replace it with some java moss that will be attached to the front right driftwood, so that it looks like a tree.

Fish stock, since you can't really see them:
Green neon tetras (a lot more blue than other neons or cardinals) x 20
http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/f...735188-800.jpg

Celestial Pearl Danio x 6
http://www.aquariumfish.co.za/images...tialPearl1.jpg

Purple Eraser Pencilfish x 6
http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/z...rocaudatus.jpg

Bloodfin Tetra x 6
http://tropicalfishandaquariums.com/...dfinTetra1.jpg

Clown Loach x 5 (need to get rid of soon, or rehome... they are getting too big for the tank)
http://www.aquariumfish.net/images_0...726b_w0480.jpg

Betta x 1 (mine looks almost identical to this)
http://www.exoticfishaquarium.com/ga...plendens_3.jpg

That looks beautiful! Nice job! :thumb: I really like the driftwood. Hopefully it will get waterlogged soon.

Doesn't the betta assassinate the other fish?

Bettas only fight with other bettas, alone in community tanks they're usually the ones getting nipped on all of the time.

Thats a great tank, he must have mega-overkill filtration on it to keep that many fish.

Yeah, the betta is non aggressive. The neons are only half an inch, so right now, I'm at under 1 inch of fish per 6 inches of surface area on the tank. I do have two sponge filters running on it for now, until the plants grow back and can start taking on the nutrients. Then I will cut back to one sponge filter. But sponges hold a ton of bacteria in them, so it's all good.

This. They will also fight w/ other labyrinth fish like Dwarf Gouramis.

I had moved my new Betta from my 5g into my 55g for just a couple of hours and I had to move him back to the 5g. My Red Tailed Shark was bullying the hell out of him and he was in the back corner of the tank taking shelter under plants. Prior to this, my other Betta went through the same thing. He just hid all the time. That one is in my 10g w/ no other fish.

Huh... Guess I've been lying to my daughter. She's wanted a betta in her little guppie tank and I wouldn't let her. Thanks for the info..

Check out the monster snail in my daughter's little tank... I gotta move that big bastard to my big tank..

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/M1An-Zo_WR4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I wouldn't put it with guppies. Bettas are fine with other fish, so long as the other fish don't have long fins. I mean, you can TRY it, but your results may vary. Notice that none of the fish I selected have long fins that might confuse the betta into nipping. I know my betta isn't aggressive and would probably be fine with guppies, but others may have different personalities that don't get along so well with long-finned fish.

Getting serious about real substrate with live plants is the most logical next step for me, nothing looks as nice & its just a more involved way of keeping a tank, i need a challenge.

I've had a lot of different freshwater & brackish tanks over the years, some in whats often called a river or terrarium tank, with plenty of built up dry land for frogs, lizards, crabs & whatever, while trying hard to maintain as much aquatic area as possible, waterfalls, caves, all kinds of stuff.

But never did get serious about a more natural substrate, natural pebble on the bottom and usually just dirt, sand & bagged moss on top of wood & slate in selected areas i was trying to keep dry, maybe throw in a weed or clumps of grass from the yard which a sun bulb would keep alive for a while, but never did get serious about it, seemed to intimidating & fussy, but i think i'm ready for it

Silocks tank looks great & that snail Fish has is awesome.

The only advantage to a dirt substrate is that you don't have to dose fertilizers all the time. My plants did awesome in bare sand when I used liquid fertilizers 5 times a week.

Yeah, i wasnt even thinking about that bit of chemistry in my post last night about you needing overkill filtration for the fish, the plants can eat a lot of it up, and i dont know a lot about them, *edit - actually Not a jetfilter, meanwhile, back at the ranch* .

Thats the more detailed, more natural ecosystem aspect of it that really interests me.

Beautiful tank Silock!

I love those Pearl Danios. Was thinking about getting a group once my tank settles.

Heh, my tank looks like absolute SHIT right now. All those plants melted away, so they're in the process of growing back.

I got rid of the loaches, and have some Oto cats on the way, as well as some red cherry shrimp. I am growing out a bit of algae so the Otos will have something to eat when they get here. Hopefully, that will solve the algae problem.

Had a similar problem with my plants shedding, and didn't realize that was normal. Replanted half of them and now watching the new ones shed. Half my tank looks like rotting / skeleton amazon swords. Thankfully my anubias look great as well as some other plant I forgot the name of that changed shape after planting.

Just dropped in 3 assassin snails to work on my snail problem so my single Oto doesn't go hungry (I have a heap of ramshorns right now). Hope to grab a school of pearl danios in a week or two. Absolutely beautiful fish, but tiny!

Yeah, don't get discouraged about the melting. It happens. I even did 30% water changes every day and it still happened. Just look for new growth and be happy about that. My crypts have started to come back, my swords sprouted a leaf yesterday, and my ludwigia is getting new stem growth all over the place. The hairgrass MAY have sent out some runners, but it's hard to tell. Hopefully, the new light I put in today will make it all take off.


There's a guy doing a fantastic deal on the CPDs on Aquabid. 10 for $55 shipped overnight.

I'm going to get some from him this week.

Yeah, at this point I'm just waiting. Got 3 fish (and 1 fry) plus a ton of snails. I'm just going to wait a week or two or three to see what happens. I can see baby leaves coming up, so I know everything's fine. I'm just impatient.

Pet shop near me has CPDs for $4.95 ea. Almost bought some last time I was there but made the mistake of getting Serpae Tetras. Didn't realize they were such aggressive little nippers. Pretty, but I couldn't keep them.

Just saw this on Chive...

http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/...-photos-12.jpg

Awesome

OK, I have eggs on the glass of my aquarium. They're little white dots some close together some not. They look like cory eggs but I only have one cory, the other died a few months ago. So they more than likely aren't fertile, if they're cory eggs correct? I also have blue snails in there but they usually lay there eggs above the water line in clusters so I don't think it's them. The only other fish in there are tetras (rummy nose and emperor).


<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/31144845@N02/7444714556/" title="fisheggs by mapppik, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7109/7444714556_0ca7eb47e3.jpg" width="375" height="500" alt="fisheggs"></a>

Looks like cory cat eggs to me. Fertile, who knows. I've seen females lay eggs long after being in contact with males.....

We have a water garden and it was loaded with goldfish of all varieties. Sarassas, shubunkins, and regular comets. They lay eggs every year and every year there are at least a couple hundred hatchlings that can be seen but by mid summer there are only around five left that are about an inch or two in length. We have really unique colors and patterns that can't be found in stores because of all the different varieties mixing for around 5 years now. Some even turn out to resort back to their natural carp color.

Anyways about a month ago a blue heron discovered them and completed decimated the population, which was about 40 fish including four generations and some at least 5 years old. I was pissed! The bird hung around all day but never came back. We assumed it was because all the fish were gone because we couldn't see any left.

About a week later some started showing up on the surface looking very lethargic. They clearly had developed ich from the insane amounts of stress. I had to take the fish out and put them in one of my big tanks. So after draining the water I discovered about 25 fish (none of the oldest ones which were just too big to escape) that had been hiding at the bottom motionless. So I put them in the tank to treat the ich which worked but not before about 10 more died. Another thing that made me mad was that this heron came right around when they were typically spawning and figured they didn't have time to reproduce.

However, I was met with a great surprise when draining the pond to see at least a hundred hatchlings, all of which also had ich. I saved as many as I could in a fish fry net in the tank but they all either had ich or were just too small to be transferred. So the baby fish died of stress or ich. But towards the end of draining I discovered three hatchlings that were larger than the rest. I was only able to catch two. I was happy because though those others died, they got to leave their mark and make one last spawn. I am happy to report I put the surviving large ones back in the pond and that the two surviving fry are still living in the tank are now about 1.5 inches.

My angel fish, and my Jack Dempsey. They're both great tankmates...

http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/1150/fishc.jpg

I always liked Jack Dempseys. One of the tougher looking cichlids. How many other fish are in that tank? I know angels are tough but I would think the Dempsey might occasionally get bossy in there especially if there aren't a lot of fish.

Several months later..... not a huge change, but yellows starting to fill out. Colors should get more pronounced.

http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/3574/1005859a.jpg

My Dempsey is about 4 years old now.

http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/7440/1005865d.jpg

He's a big baby. He has his little spot under the rock, and he doesn't bother any other fish in the tank. In fact, when other fish start fighting, he often comes out and breaks it up getting in the middle of it. I realize that doesn't really make any logical sense.

That makes sense actually. Even aggressive fish become more community like when they don't feel they have their "own" territory to defend which is what numerous fish leads to. But he still likes to maintain order I guess haha.

Added a couple noobs to the tank...

These are OB peacock cichlids. Bastard hybrids, but they're good looking little guys...

http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/7752/1005880n.jpg

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/5199/1005878s.jpg

Those are very nice and unique looking. Where did you get them if you don't mind me asking?

I found those at City Pets in Westport. It's a neat little non-chain pet store. I've gotten several peacocks there, including my sunshine peacock. Several times now, they've had peacocks there that they didn't know what kind they were, so they were much cheaper than they should have been.

The OB peacock is a man made hybrid breed. They're bred for their awesome crazy colors. So some fish breeders and hobby nuts really frown upon them. They feel that they're a Frankenstein abomination, and you shouldn't hybrid breed fish. They want to keep the breed "pure". But I don't really have any moral reservations about it. They're cool looking....

Here's some more to show you the variety...

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C...FvpezSAYGdqe8F

Those are definitely cool. I am all for purity of species but by mixing them you can begin to create whole separate strings with colors not found naturally. Thats part of the fun of fish keeping is the ability to see new colors and be surprised at what is "created." i know in our water garden we have fish patterns you will never see available in the store. The natural ones will still always be there as well.

That sounds like a neat store. I was really sad to see Waldo Pets go when it did. I drove out there a few years back right after it closed but I had no idea it was gone until I got there.

****ing cherry shrimps keep dying. Not sure why. My snails and ghost shrimps are alive and kicking just fine.

Still have a few left, so that's good, I suppose. In other news, my apple snails are breeding.

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/g...9/8306329a.jpg

Laying the second clutch:
http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/g...9/04f3c072.jpg

Thought id get in on this

http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...46938728_o.jpg

Very nice setup. I love the way you've arranged it.

Where'd you get those nice flat slabs of rock?

Actually a company called Cripple Creek in KC. It was really cheap too, i think i may have spent 10 dollars. I went to the bargain bin where they only had a pallet of rock left and picked pieces off. Just bring a couple five gallon buckets to make it easier to haul home.

If you haven't been its definitely worth the trip.

http://www.cripplecreekrockcompany.com/ :thumb:

Wow. Nice find, I know exactly where that's at. Thanks.

It's surprisingly hard to find nicely shaped natural rock for the aquarium.

Anytime, you'll have to post what you come back with. I have thought about going up again just to get a few different types to add some different color to the tank.

Look around and get what you want....... But don't forget the bargain section. I think its around half off or more since they are running low on certain types of rocks and don't have enough for bigger projects where they make their money. They clearance the hell out of it to get the last pallet gone.

I found a new pet store in Leawood at the new shopping area they built by Town Center called Park Place Plaza I think. Really nice place with a lot of cool tanks. They have fresh and saltwater fish and products. It's called Picasso's Exotic Aquatics.

http://www.picassoexoticaquatics.com/

Thanks for sharing! :thumb: I really like the rock formation!

--------

Update: I now have a total of 4 tanks. A 55g, 10g, 5g, and now... a 3g.

I had a melting issue w/ my Anacharis in the 5g, so I had to remove them. When I did, my Red Cherry Shrimp had nowhere to hide and my Betta went on a killing spree. :( He only ate a few, but I figured it was time for his own tank.

I went to Walmart, (:banghead:), and found a nice setup. It's the Hawkeye AquaView 360 Aquarium, 3gal

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...3DC4th-1bQ5CqY

It has a multi-color LED light fixture and you can set the colors to stay solid or fade. It's pretty sweet! The only thing I had to buy was a heater, gravel, and ornaments. I figured it was time to deck-out a tank for my son, so I got a few bright artificial plants for the background, along w/ Spongebob, Patrick, and Spongebob's Pineapple house. LMAO

Unfortunately, not but a few days after setting up the tank, my other Betta, (in the 10g), passed. So now I have a tank w/ no fish. What to do, what to do... :hmmm:

I can send you some new Anarchis if you want. Mine is growing like crazy. I have to trim it every two days.

Thanks for the offer! :) I'm good though. Luckily, I had thinned them out a week prior and have a large bunch of them in my 55g. I'm going to redesign my 10g and they will probably go in there. I only have those and a huge Amazon Sword floating in my 55g tank now, (thanks to that huge ass Pleco).

I read about your Red Cherry Shrimp. That sucks. :( I wonder what would have killed them, but not your Ghost?

Thank you, I've had the tank since November. It's been fun watching the fish grow, but I'm ready for them to be full grown.

Does anyone know where you can pick up cherry shrimp in KC? I've got a buddy who has a planted tank and has always wanted some but could never find them locally.

I still have a few. I guess they were just sick and weak when they arrived.

I just get mine on aquabid.com.

That's where I get most of my fish, actually.

Well i was going to be a good friend and swing by and pick up a half dozen(since I'm off work the next few days). I've had great success online with buying fish but i don't think I'm that good of a friend to order them online.

I've poked around aquabid.com its just hard for me to justify shipping on 12 or less cherry shrimp.

The only thing I know to do locally would be to go to a place like the Pet Stop in Shawnee and ask them if they can order some for you. They are willing to do that, but it will take a while for them to come in.

There's a place in Bonner we drive by called Go Lizards. We've never stopped cuz they're usually closed but it looks promising.
http://golizards.com/

An interesting thing happened to me on the 3rd. A guy was referred to me because "I like fish" and he had some to give away. So I to out to his black truck (110+ degrees outside) and in the very back were 3 orange HomeDepot buckets with an airline in each one. He starts popping the lids and they were full of cichlids, a rope fish and who know what else that were dropping like flies.
So I immediately said yes I'll take some thinking I could put them in the 29 the goldfish were in. I got the rope fish and a bunch of the cichlids, unfortunately most were dying faster than I could save them.

Got home and started netting them...they're ALL a minimum of 4 " and there are 3 white, 2 yellow, 2 blue, an orange, a silver and a dark grey cichlid in addition to the ropefish that is 8" long...29 wont work for long...

Found a 40 today with stand and accessories for $15. Now I have to find a place to put it. This will be tank 8 not counting 2 betta tanks and an African frog. Freaking ridiculous.

Lol. Nice!

WTF was that guy thinking? :facepalm: It's a good thing you were able to save some of them, at least. Only $15 for a 40g?! DAMN! Nice job!

So, let me get this straight... you have 8 tanks, 2 betta tanks, and 1 frog tank? :eek: GAH!!

I said it was ridiculous...We have a 55 with a geophagis (Jeff), bristlenose pleco, chinese algae eater, 3 black fin tetras, a molly and a crawdad. The 49 has an orange gourami, a dwarf gourami, a yoyo loach, a leopard cory, a few swords, zebra danios and harlequin rasboras and a silver dollar that is at least 6 years old. A 29 with guppies, an oto and a spotted cory plus a bazillion ramshorn snails. A 15 with a crawdad, a 20 with emperor, rummy nose and red fins tetras. Then we set up a cool cichlid tank in a 40g breeder tank with 7 cichlids and a pleco. The other 29 had the goldfish in it over the winter and we were planning on using that as a housing tank while we did some deep cleaning on the other tanks but these cichlids showed up so there are 4 in there and the 40 that I got (which is only 30) I put the other 4 cichlids and the ropefish in. The Bettas are in little 1 gals and the frog is in a 2 gal. No fancy hard to care for fish but still lots of water and filter changes.

That is absolutely amazing, Smitty! :) I hope your new additions do ok. Is the frog an African Dwarf?

Anyone want any mystery snails? Free of charge. I have about . . . 1,000.

I'd take some. Just gotta get up your way.

So, I bought a 5 stage RODI system (Reverse Osmosis De-Ionization) when I thought I was going saltwater. It produces 75g/day of filtered water, and comes with a reservoir that is heated and has a powerhead for circulation. Comes with all the attachments you'd need to hook it up to a hose, faucet, or directly to your home's plumbing.

Since I'm not going saltwater anymore (can't afford to salt out a 125g tank), I am getting rid of the system.

$175 takes it.

$160 takes the RODI system.

I got another 10g setup going. Not sure why. Boredom, I suppose. Went to Petco for the dollar a gallon sale, and ended up finding some Blue Coral Hifin Platys that I've never seen before anywhere. So, I grabbed those and three Julii cory cats. They're all in the 10g with my betta. Lots of plants and snails, too. Interesting little things. I'm hoping I got a male and a female hifin, as I want to try and breed them.

Platies are in the same group as Mollies and Guppies. This means two things:

1) They're super-easy to sex. You can tell if it's a male by the anal fin - it's long, thin, and straight and runs parallel to their body. A female's looks more like a normal fin - triangular in shape and rounded at the tip.

2) If you have a male and a female they WILL breed, PROLIFEROUSLY. In fact, 3 weeks from now you might be wishing you had all females. :D They can have 30-40 babies at a time as often as once a month.

Pretty sure one of our fish will be dead when I get home. Lost it's color and looks like skin is hanging like a former fat man and was hanging at the top nose up this morning.

Still not into this fish thing. This fad may be coming to an end soon if the kids don't flip out.

Well, looks like I got two males. Oh well. Will the platys interbreed between hifins and regulars?

Yep.

We just bought a house and I will be wanting to set up an aquarium again. I have everything a person could possibly need for freshwater aquariums, including an abundance of nice size aquariums to choose from.

We are debating whether to go with freshwater or saltwater so I have some questions for anyone with experience with saltwater or both.

How much extra product do I need to have saltwater instead of freshwater? Can I simply use the freshwater pumps, heaters, etc.?

Do regular aquariums work for saltwater? I know that in the stores the saltwater tanks all have some different looking features to them as far as their setup and suppport systems.

Are the freshwater acccessories such as plants and rock okay?

Also, how are the prices for fish? I know they are a little more pricey, but what would I be looking at to have a nice full 65 gallon aquarium? And along those lines, do you need a quarantine tank?

Any help would be much appreciated.

I'm certainly not a saltwater expert.

Most of the extra products you'll need are due to the difference in water chemistry. You'll need a source of calcium and you'll probably need a protein skimmer. You'll also need test kits specific to saltwater chemistry.

I don't think there's any difference, no.

I would think artificial ornaments are fine either way. Beware of actual rocks, for both fresh and saltwater. They can leech into the water, changing the chemistry.

My experiense is that saltwater fish are MUCH more expensive and for that reason alone, you absolutely must have a quarantine tank.

Heaters can work, but a good saltwater tank is going to need quite a bit more water flow to keep the algae down. And no, you don't want to use the plants and rock because it is unlikely to be a healthy setup.

A healthy saltwater tank needs to have a great deal of live rock (porous rock) to allow bacteria, etc... to grow and certain types of algae for most attractive reef fish to graze on. If you don't have good water flow, that algae will get a little out of hand (as will things like cyanobacteria).

Freshwater can be done pretty well with a couple of Penguin bio-wheel pumps and little else. For saltwater you're going to probably want a sump setup to allow for plenty of water movement and a haven for bacteria. You'll definitely need a protein skimmer as well; it's the most critical element of a decent saltwater setup.

Oh, and the light is absolutely critical in a saltwater setup whereas I never noticed a huge difference with my cichlid tanks.

A slightly cheaper marine setup would be a FOWLR setup (fish only with live rock). You don't need the high intensity lights because you aren't growing corals. You can have some of the larger angel-fish and more predatory fish like puffers, etc..., but you can't have most of those little reef fish that look so pretty in the fish store. And ultimately the reef tanks are just more attractive than the FOWLR setups.

Your question is a little too broad to give you the best advise, but ultimately I wouldn't use any of the rock from a freshwater setup because it's not going to be porous enough to act as good seed rock. Frankly, you'll want to go to a store and buy 'live rock' first anyway...lots of it; in a 65 gallon tank I'd go with about 100 lbs of live rock and a deep sand bottom. Alternatively, get 10 lbs of live rock and 90 lbs of good, porous seed rock and the seed rock will eventually go 'live' when the critters living in the live rock move in. Don't use the plants because they look tacky in a marine aquarium, IMO. But hey, that's ultimately your call.

The fish are much more expensive. A 'cheap' saltwater fish that's not an evil-ass damsel is going to cost you $20; something like a Royal Gramma or a clown (though a clown is a damsel, so realize that it might turn into an asshole). A 'normal' priced fish like a Coral Beauty or a Foxface would be in the 30-40 range. A mid-range fish like nice hippo or Kole tang would be 40-60. The most I've ever spent on a fish was $80 on a big Naso and about the same on a tiny little mystery wrasse when they were damn expensive.

Something like a Hawaiin black tang or an achilles tang can run you in the $300+ range. At 65 gallons, they aren't a good idea.

A saltwater tank requires some homework that a freshwater doesn't. You need to know more about how big the fish will get because they're much more likely to outgrow the tank. They are more prone to stress-related diseases if you don't have a decent sized tank as well.

If you want to go saltwater, do it right. I wouldn't recommend anything less than a 90 and ultimately I think a 125 or better is the way to go because that's when you get to the 6 foot wide tanks that give ample swimming room. Moreover, the more tank volume you have, the less prone the tank is to spikes in levels and therefore the more healthy it is.

As I went back to see if I was just repeating myself in here (hint: I was), came across this one.

The tank is still sitting drained in my office a year later. I did throw the rock away and still haven't replaced it with sand. I did decide to get a blue-jaw trigger some months ago, though he had such a high metabolism that I couldn't keep him fed and he eventually lost enough weight to get sick and die on me.

Funny how often we know how our plans will actually work out ahead of time...

First, thanks for the long reply! :thumb: I was just thinking about a heater in terms of keeping the water at the appropriate temperature. When you say "can work" does that mean it isn't needed?

I had actually looked at the live rock a little bit and done some research on that. I do like the way it looks but hadn't thought of the benefits to the fish. It sounds like it isn't a must but is certainly better. And it sounds like the pumps are definitely much different than the typical biowheel hanging on the back which I would have to get.

So I just did a quick search of protein skimmers and those don't come cheap. I am glad you and htismaqe mentioned that because it is one of those things I may have tried to skip on if I deemed it through my inexperience to be unnecessary. So a sump pump is different than the protein skimmer? Is a sump pump the one that is usually under the main tank and always looks like it is filled with algae and calcium build up?

I have seen the aquariums that are essentially set up to look just like a freshwater aquarium as far as design and features and they don't look quite as good for sure without the corals. It seems like those aren't as versatile either as far as what can live in them. What do you mean by seed rock going 'live'?

I wasn't aware that the fish were that expensive. I was thinking I could get most of what I wanted for under $40. I know I definitely would need to do a lot of homework prior but this is a great overview as far as realistic needs and expectations. I really want a saltwater tank but it certainly sounds like I would be better off waiting to buy a full blown saltwater specific setup in a larger size. I don't want to invest in a tank that isn't adequate just to have a $60 fish die on me.

I am perfectly happy to do freshwater again but I was curious as to what to expect if I wanted to transition and judging by the responses, there is much more to it than I would have thought. This is a great place to start though. Knowing what I need is the most confusing part for a beginner saltwater but I think I have a pretty good idea now.

My recommendation would be to cruise Craigslist until you come onto a turnkey system from someone getting out of the hobby.

It will cost you about 1/3 as much, most of the parts will be complementary and you'll have someone that will talk you through how they used what they used and why. Oftentimes they'll even be selling off their livestock.

Rock going 'live' means that it populates with the beneficial bacterias, etc... that make it live rock. You can start with porous 'dead' rocks and include just a few hunks of live rock around it. Whatever is living in that rock will spread into the seed rock and turn it into live rock.

The term 'live rock' is something of a misnomer - the rock itself is no more live than it's ever been, it just has a lot of nitrifying bacteria and beneficial pods, etc... that are extremely helpful for the health of a reef tank.

Not to step on any toes but most hang-over-back filters are fairly overrated, particularly the Marineland setups with a bio-wheel.

Setups using porous rock (ie. lava rock), fluidized sand, or even a cheap sponge filter, are WAY more effective at bio-filtration. And a good canister filter will mechanically outperform even the best HOB by a WIDE margin.

My 90 gallon ran 2 Emperor 400's and 2 Magnum 350 canisters.

The HOBs were great because they offered good mechanical filtration and an easy medium to clean/replace with the carbon inserts. If I used exclusively canisters, changing out that sleeve repeatedly would be a pain in the ass.

Instead of having to shut off my plumbing and take the pump apart, I could just pull the inserts and replace them. While the Magnums did a better job, the Emperors were easily more convenient to use.

I get that but it's the job they do.

My Rena XP3, one tray loaded with nothing but Seachem Matrix, is like have six Emporer 400's on my 55G.

I clean mine every 30 days - it takes about 30 minutes and bypassing it is a cinch, just lift a lever and pull the off the head.

But I would actually like to put in a plug for a Hydrosponge. I single Hydrosponge 3 with all the tubing is like $10. Attach an airstone to it and it has the bio-filtration of all of your and my filters put together.

Well after 9 months of having an empty tank at the office, I've re-started my cichlid tank at work.

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It's my first time trying a heavily rock-scaped freshwater tank. I stole a few lessons I've learned from my reef at home and tried to apply them to this setup. The cichlids seem to really enjoy the crevices and I think it's doing well to keep their aggression to a dull roar.

Front view:

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/pictu...pictureid=1333

Profile:

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/pictu...pictureid=1334

Long view:

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/pictu...pictureid=1335

That long view is probably my favorite from a pure 'fishkeeping' standpoint. From the front it looks a little bit cramped, but down that long view you can see that they have a very nice water column to motor around in and then dive down in the rocks if need be. It also cuts back hard towards the center of the tank to open it up even more through there.

I'm excited about it, it seems like it's working quite nicely.

Nice. I just picked up a 55g at Petco ($1/gallon sale rocks!) and I'm going to do a Demasoni and Yellow Lab tank. Trying to find enough stackable limestone is a pain in the ass, though.

Columbia has such hard water that I need a little limestone as a buffer, but not a ton. My PH is sitting dead red at 8.2 with only about 40 lbs of limestone in there.

Keeping them clean is the biggest pain. I despise red algae.

That tank doesn't look nearly large enough to house a family of barracuda, IMO.

:)

But please leave the lid open once you decide to stock it. Ocelots are excellent fishermen.

Couple of my peacock cichlids...

http://img542.imageshack.us/img542/5...0420223400.jpg

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/784...0420223335.jpg

http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/3...0420223404.jpg

Really? What kind of poles do they use?:)

I'm selling a brand new drilled (with bulkheads) 125g tank with stand and a brand new in box canister filter. $500 obo.

while i'd love to have it (and honestly can't afford that) pics or gtfo!!!!!:)

Recent video of my tank...

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