ChiefsPlanet

ChiefsPlanet (https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/index.php)
-   Nzoner's Game Room (https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/forumdisplay.php?f=1)
-   -   Poop Andy Reid's football team (https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=308406)

Eleazar 06-24-2017 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gold_and_red (Post 12929999)
This issue is specific to the Chiefs because we rely so much on elite playmakers on the D. If we had the offense picking up the slack then Berry wouldn't be so overvalued. Belichick can afford to ship players to the Browns and still keep winning because he has an elite QB.

And because he routinely out-coaches other teams.

Belichick isn't a detriment to his team on Sundays.

BlackOp 06-24-2017 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gold_and_red (Post 12929999)
This issue is specific to the Chiefs because we rely so much on elite playmakers on the D. If we had the offense picking up the slack then Berry wouldn't be so overvalued. Belichick can afford to ship players to the Browns and still keep winning because he has an elite QB.

Berry has ALWAYS been over valued in KC..when he was out with cancer the defense actually put up better numbers.

He became the cancer survivor poster boy for the NFL...which increased his emotional value through marketing. KC just got 6 national games. Hunt wanted him a happy Chief...and its his team.

He played great last season so not taking anything away from that...but it was a contract year.

splatbass 06-24-2017 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackOp (Post 12929982)
Chunt is making the mistake of supporting a family locker-room environment over results. There is a reason the saying "family and business dont mix" exists. Pro sports is a cut-throat industry and Dorsey just turned that dumpster fire (of Hunt's making) into a 22-4 team.

There is a reason firing your GM, at this point of the year, never happens, ever...Hunt sucks at running a team.

It's not Dorsey's job to be best buds with the players...dealing with money and pragmatic personnel decisions are the dirty part of it. Shit, the players in NE are kind of scared of Belichick and he's the frickin coach.

They can have all the picnics and slumber parties they want at Arrowhead...but losing is far worse for team morale than a few millionaire players with hurt feelings.

Are Berry and Houston going to pout when the new GM does something they dont like or cuts one of their friends?

All assumptions with no facts to support them.

DaneMcCloud 06-24-2017 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackOp (Post 12929982)
Chunt is making the mistake of supporting a family locker-room environment over results. There is a reason the saying "family and business dont mix" exists. Pro sports is a cut-throat industry and Dorsey just turned that dumpster fire (of Hunt's making) into a 22-4 team.

There is a reason firing your GM, at this point of the year, never happens, ever...Hunt sucks at running a team.

It's not Dorsey's job to be best buds with the players...dealing with money and pragmatic personnel decisions are the dirty part of it. Shit, the players in NE are kind of scared of Belichick and he's the frickin coach.

They can have all the picnics and slumber parties they want at Arrowhead...but losing is far worse for team morale than a few millionaire players with hurt feelings.

Are Berry and Houston going to pout when the new GM does something they dont like or cuts one of their friends?

You're missing the entire point.

Clark Hunt and John Dorsey had a toxic relationship. Dorsey was allowed to run the football operations but Clark was clearly unhappy with the handling of Berry's contract, long term contracts given to Maclin and Bowe (among others that didn't pan out), the mishandling of the salary cap and the negative publicity surrounding Maclin's release.

The Chiefs not only lost Chris Ballard this year, they lost their College Scouting Director, Marvin Allen, to Buffalo, where he took a demotion. They chose to move on from Trip McCracken and Will Lewis, while David Culley took a QB Coach job in Buffalo after working with Reid continuously since 1999.

Obviously, whatever issues that caused Clark Hunt to move on from Dorsey didn't just start and end in the past week.

DaneMcCloud 06-24-2017 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cochise (Post 12930000)
And because he routinely out-coaches other teams.

Belichick isn't a detriment to his team on Sundays.

Right. Reid is obviously a detriment to his team, which is why the Chiefs are only 43-21 during his tenure, averaging 11 wins per season.

He's a saboteur.

gold_and_red 06-24-2017 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by splatbass (Post 12930034)
All assumptions with no facts to support them.

Belichick actually is fair to his players. Those who play in NE love him. Its his tone with the media that mostly gives him this reputation. But he hardly singles out a player for praise knowing that everyone has a role to play in a championship run unlike Reid who routinely puts Berry in the spotlight. I have had enough with the come as players, leave as family mantra. Time for real results!
If Mahomes turns out to be elite we will see a different culture IMHO that is much more consistent with true contenders where the QB leads the locker room.

BlackOp 06-24-2017 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud (Post 12930040)
Y

Obviously, whatever issues that caused Clark Hunt to move on from Dorsey didn't just start and end in the past week.

That makes the timing of his release even worse. If Hunt had issues and Dorsey's tenure was in doubt, he should have moved on with Ballard months ago. It was said they did a top down review and they were in extension negotiations. Clark knew everything that was going on with Berry last season.

This is on Hunt...it had to be a knee-jerk. Sounds like amateur hour. Dorsey is still being payed for another year... just go away.

NJChiefsFan 06-24-2017 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud (Post 12930043)
Right. Reid is obviously a detriment to his team, which is why the Chiefs are only 43-21 during his tenure, averaging 11 wins per season.

He's a saboteur.

I certainly wouldn't call him a detriment but he has been his own worst enemy at times in his career which is a part of the reason he hasn't won the SB. Whether it be the SB against NE, a number of calls and management against NE a couple years ago, or some of the game plan against PIT, he doesn't always get out of his own way.

He could use a little more skill on self-assessing his own weaknesses.

-King- 06-24-2017 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 12929779)
I would rather have a gm who knows talent but can't manage the cap than a gm who can't bring in talent but manages the cap well. That is basically Scott Pioli.

If Dorsey was fired for cap reasons, **** that. Hire a better cap manager that puts his feet to the fire. Sure it bothers me but considering how many elite draft picks he's hauled in at the price of peanuts, that more than makes up for a few million over spent on a veteran

Getting those elite draftees to their second contract is a big part of being GM. You're not going to be able to hang on to some of your talent if the cap is ****ed. You essentially become a minor league team.
Posted via Mobile Device

WhiteWhale 06-24-2017 02:06 PM

The way people were talking you'd think KC has 30 million dollars in dead cap money.

Look like it's just under 10 million, which isn't bad. It's not great, but this issue is being enormously over-stated.

DaneMcCloud 06-24-2017 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhiteWhale (Post 12930099)
The way people were talking you'd think KC has 30 million dollars in dead cap money.

Look like it's just under 10 million, which isn't bad. It's not great, but this issue is being enormously over-stated.

They haven't signed their first round pick yet and they're $2 million over 2018's projected cap. There is significant Dead Money this year and next year from cutting Maclin. Cutting Howard hurt, too.

Now, I'm sure people will say they'll cut DJ, Hali, Bailey and Colquitt to create cap room, but they'll also need to replace those guys, which will cost money as well.

And of that $10 million remaining this year, they'll need $5 million in reserve for injuries and signings.

It's not good.

mcaj22 06-24-2017 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhiteWhale (Post 12930099)
The way people were talking you'd think KC has 30 million dollars in dead cap money.

Look like it's just under 10 million, which isn't bad. It's not great, but this issue is being enormously over-stated.

I think the biggest problem is next year when they, as of right now have 175 million in cap allocations for 2018 with just 52 contracts.

So next offseason is the biggest obstacle.

Eleazar 06-24-2017 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NJChiefsFan (Post 12930081)
I certainly wouldn't call him a detriment but he has been his own worst enemy at times in his career which is a part of the reason he hasn't won the SB. Whether it be the SB against NE, a number of calls and management against NE a couple years ago, or some of the game plan against PIT, he doesn't always get out of his own way.

He could use a little more skill on self-assessing his own weaknesses.

He hasn't changed much during a near 20 year career as a head coach. The book on him from Philadelphia is all still true. Play calling is terrible, clock management is terrible, very slow to make in-game adjustments, routinely wastes time outs and challenges, often gives the other team possessions at the end of halves.

His system, when executed well and when turnovers are limited, is very good at beating bad and mediocre teams, and thus produces a lot of regular season wins because those are 2/3 of the teams you play in a given year.

In the postseason you don't play many mediocre teams, which is probably why he has a losing record in the postseason.

Once in a while a Brian Hoyer quarterbacked Texans team backs into the playoffs, but other than that, Reid doesn't win consistently in the postseason, despite often getting there.

DaneMcCloud 06-24-2017 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cochise (Post 12930141)
He hasn't changed much during a near 20 year career as a head coach. The book on him from Philadelphia is all still true. Play calling is terrible, clock management is terrible, very slow to make in-game adjustments, routinely wastes time outs and challenges, often gives the other team possessions at the end of halves.

His system, when executed well and when turnovers are limited, is very good at beating bad and mediocre teams, and thus produces a lot of regular season wins because those are 2/3 of the teams you play in a given year.

In the postseason you don't play many mediocre teams, which is probably why he has a losing record in the postseason.

Once in a while a Brian Hoyer quarterbacked Texans team backs into the playoffs, but other than that, Reid doesn't win consistently in the postseason, despite often getting there.

He's a Hall of Fame coach.

You're a Hall of Fame dipshit.

Halfcan 06-24-2017 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cochise (Post 12930141)
He hasn't changed much during a near 20 year career as a head coach. The book on him from Philadelphia is all still true. Play calling is terrible, clock management is terrible, very slow to make in-game adjustments, routinely wastes time outs and challenges, often gives the other team possessions at the end of halves.

His system, when executed well and when turnovers are limited, is very good at beating bad and mediocre teams, and thus produces a lot of regular season wins because those are 2/3 of the teams you play in a given year.

In the postseason you don't play many mediocre teams, which is probably why he has a losing record in the postseason.

Once in a while a Brian Hoyer quarterbacked Texans team backs into the playoffs, but other than that, Reid doesn't win consistently in the postseason, despite often getting there.

Most of this is true, but the thing with Andy, his players love him. He is the very definition of a Players Coach. He gets everything they have on game day. He has built a very solid team here in KC in all phases of the game.

Teams that come in here have to outperform us in at least 2 of the 3 to win. How many games have we seen the offense get dominated but the Defense and Special teams bail them out for wins? It must drive other teams crazy knowing they played better a majority of games only to lose from a pick 6, a punt return for a TD, or 6 freaking field goals. The Atlanta game was a prime example.

Despite his faults, Andy wins a lot of games. He gets a lead and grinds it out in the ugliest way possible. It is maddening sometimes, watching him shoot himself in the foot with game decision blunders, but he wins. With that said- it still takes an Elite QB for a team to win consistently in the Playoffs. Hopefully, Andy gets that now by drafting 2 PM.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:44 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.