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Halfcan 08-18-2016 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hog Farmer (Post 12373272)
Etrade for me . 9.99 per transaction

Wow that is high.

I have Sharebuilder-it is $4.95.

I reinvest all the dividends at no charge.

wutamess 08-18-2016 11:39 AM

Fidelity for me. 7.95/transaction. Bought in at APPL @ $128. Hopefully I can get my $ back. It went as low as $90 in the last 4 months. When do you guys pullout?

Discuss Thrower 08-18-2016 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wutamess (Post 12374423)
Fidelity for me. 7.95/transaction. Bought in at APPL @ $128. Hopefully I can get my $ back. It went as low as $90 in the last 4 months. When do you guys pullout?

Do you believe that Apple can sustain modest growth in the long term?

eDave 08-18-2016 11:48 AM

I just moved my 401K distributions over to a couple of funds (Fidelity) that are gaining ~15% all year. Maxed my contributions as well. A bit of a money grab. I'll let it ride till EOY.

Halfcan 08-18-2016 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wutamess (Post 12374423)
Fidelity for me. 7.95/transaction. Bought in at APPL @ $128. Hopefully I can get my $ back. It went as low as $90 in the last 4 months. When do you guys pullout?

So you were the one that bought Apple at $128.00?

Their product sales are slumping this year. But the good news is they have like 6 trillion zillion dollars tucked away. Berkshire bought a big chunk as well-so that bodes well for the long term.

I was looking at this stock but chose not to since they pay such a measly dividend. Still wish I would have got in at $90.0 for the small rebound. :(

Discuss Thrower 08-18-2016 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eDave (Post 12374440)
I just moved my 401K distributions over to a couple of funds (Fidelity) that are gaining ~15% all year. Maxed my contributions as well. A bit of a money grab. I'll let it ride till EOY.

http://www.blooom.com/

wutamess 08-18-2016 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Discuss Thrower (Post 12374431)
Do you believe that Apple can sustain modest growth in the long term?

I have no idea. Don't know how to read charts and such so use Analyst price targets as well as personal observations and articles. At the time. APPL was riding high and targets were talking $140-$170 range. Seems like soon as I bought it went down. It is rebounding due to Buffett. Hopefully it'll keep going with the release of Iphone 7 coming soon.

Discuss Thrower 08-18-2016 01:11 PM

Is your goal to maximize the reward for what you've risked or to get a sustainable return on investment?

petegz28 08-18-2016 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lewdog (Post 12373234)
Can you guys tell me who you use for online brokerage accounts? I can't remember if we've discussed that.

If you're looking into doing some serious, chart based trading, I would look at Tradestation or Interactive Brokers.

If you are wanting to be less active but still "play the market" I would go with Fidelity though I dislike their charting software.

I use Fidelity as I have manage my IRA there and I have pretty much resorted to trading mutual funds on a long term basis for various reasons which I would be more than happy to discuss in detail.

petegz28 08-18-2016 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wutamess (Post 12374559)
I have no idea. Don't know how to read charts and such so use Analyst price targets as well as personal observations and articles. At the time. APPL was riding high and targets were talking $140-$170 range. Seems like soon as I bought it went down. It is rebounding due to Buffett. Hopefully it'll keep going with the release of Iphone 7 coming soon.

Why don't you take some time and learn to read charts? It's not difficult and there are a ton of books out there that will explain how to do it.

petegz28 08-18-2016 01:26 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by wutamess (Post 12374423)
Fidelity for me. 7.95/transaction. Bought in at APPL @ $128. Hopefully I can get my $ back. It went as low as $90 in the last 4 months. When do you guys pullout?

AAPL is looking fairly bullish on a long term basis. Just like any other stock, as long as the market doesn't tank, you should get a run back to $130. I see a lot of bullish divergences on that chart.

Note the higher low on the MACD vs. a lower low on the price. That's a strong indicator of a bottom.

Along with the the MACD breaking above the 0 line as well. However, if the market stalls here as a whole, you probably are looking at the high of a trading range. On a short term basis AAPL is definitely overbought and hitting some resistance but that is also the behavior of a trend beginning too. I'd say if you break above $112 it will be a good sign of a strong run.

Heading into Sept and Oct with an election coming up could stall the entire market though.

wutamess 08-18-2016 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Discuss Thrower (Post 12374566)
Is your goal to maximize the reward for what you've risked or to get a sustainable return on investment?

Sustainable return.

wutamess 08-18-2016 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petegz28 (Post 12374575)
Why don't you take some time and learn to read charts? It's not difficult and there are a ton of books out there that will explain how to do it.

Because there's tons of charts and data that could be used for charting. Don't have the attention span to decrypt through the bullshit. I just want to The Walking Dead to not have seasons and to run like the soaps and not have to worry about charts while my money grows.

Probably about to become a slum lord again soon as I know that's a sustainable return.

Amnorix 08-18-2016 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wutamess (Post 12374678)
Because there's tons of charts and data that could be used for charting. Don't have the attention span to decrypt through the bullshit. I just want to The Walking Dead to not have seasons and to run like the soaps and not have to worry about charts while my money grows.

Probably about to become a slum lord again soon as I know that's a sustainable return.

Slum lord is a good way to go.

So is mindlessly investing in very low cost index funds (or ETFs, as you prefer) on a systematic basis. That approach gives you diversification and participation with relatively minimal effort. You're not trying to time the market, and you're not trying to outperform the market in general. Basically, market returns for as little cost as possible.

https://www.amazon.com/Random-Walk-D...1553064&sr=1-1

NewChief 08-18-2016 04:10 PM

Curious what folks think about Robo-Advisors like Wealthfront?

petegz28 08-18-2016 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wutamess (Post 12374678)
Because there's tons of charts and data that could be used for charting. Don't have the attention span to decrypt through the bullshit. I just want to The Walking Dead to not have seasons and to run like the soaps and not have to worry about charts while my money grows.

Probably about to become a slum lord again soon as I know that's a sustainable return.

Then just put your money in an SP500 fund and some bond funds and be done with it.

DaFace 08-18-2016 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewChief (Post 12374849)
Curious what folks think about Robo-Advisors like Wealthfront?

The idea of them sounds nice. I've always been skeptical that they'll outperform a simple index fund, though, once you account for a little bit in extra fees.

lewdog 08-18-2016 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaFace (Post 12374870)
The idea of them sounds nice. I've always been skeptical that they'll outperform a simple index fund, though, once you account for a little bit in extra fees.

Agreed. People see something like a higher return and think it's worthwhile. If the fees you pay for that return make your net gain less than an index, it's simply not worth it. I have found that people have a hard time adjusting for fee cost into their return. A small re-occurring fee may not seem like a lot, but 1-2% on a total investment, really IS a lot.

ChiliConCarnage 08-18-2016 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewChief (Post 12374849)
Curious what folks think about Robo-Advisors like Wealthfront?

Logged back in here for the first time in a while, that said I love this thread.
I use wealthfront for some taxable; i think it's a reasonable deal for what's provided if you're comfortable with how aggressive they are (including Betterment, etc.).

petegz28 08-18-2016 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lewdog (Post 12374942)
Agreed. People see something like a higher return and think it's worthwhile. If the fees you pay for that return make your net gain less than an index, it's simply not worth it. I have found that people have a hard time adjusting for fee cost into their return. A small re-occurring fee may not seem like a lot, but 1-2% on a total investment, really IS a lot.

Here is a bit of .05 wisdom that I cling too....

Fund Managers spend their entire career trying to beat the SP500....
Most cannot do it consistently...
So an SP500 fund should be the core of any portfolio....

Amnorix 08-19-2016 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petegz28 (Post 12375156)
Here is a bit of .05 wisdom that I cling too....

Fund Managers spend their entire career trying to beat the SP500....
Most cannot do it consistently...
So an SP500 fund should be the core of any portfolio....


First thing you've ever said about investing that made any damn sense.

:p

ChiTown 08-19-2016 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petegz28 (Post 12375156)
Here is a bit of .05 wisdom that I cling too....

Fund Managers spend their entire career trying to beat the SP500....
Most cannot do it consistently...
So an SP500 fund should be the core of any portfolio....

:clap:

wutamess 08-19-2016 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petegz28 (Post 12374866)
Then just put your money in an SP500 fund and some bond funds and be done with it.

I do that too.

petegz28 08-19-2016 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wutamess (Post 12375730)
I do that too.

Well quit buying stocks based on solely analyst ratings. They are nice as a confirmation indicator but I would never buy or sell anything because some nut with a calculator says too. They don't know how to run AAPL. They most likely are working for a firm or have contacts with firms that are looking to dump AAPL so they put a "Buy" rating on it so the poor schleps will fork over their money to the bog boys as the big boys sell.

If you're going to trade or even invest in individual stocks you are going to have to either learn fundamental-based investing or technical-based (chart reading) investing and I would encourage you to do both. Otherwise you are just going with a gut feeling or otherwise a "hot tip". You don't have to have an MBA to trade based on fundamentals and you don't have to spend hours upon hours pouring over charts to trade based on technicals.

What you do need to do is have a plan and some criteria and rules. Understand the more savvy side of things. Perhaps you should have bought a Put when you bought your AAPL as a hedge? Or perhaps you should have sold a long time ago using a Stop-Loss rule of 10% and took your lumps and walked away?

These are the things I am talking about. If you're going to do it, then do it and do it right. Otherwise just $-cost average into mutual funds and call it a day. There is nothing wrong with doing that at all, it's just boring but often works out much better in the long run.

wutamess 08-19-2016 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petegz28 (Post 12375748)
Well quit buying stocks based on solely analyst ratings. They are nice as a confirmation indicator but I would never buy or sell anything because some nut with a calculator says too. They don't know how to run AAPL. They most likely are working for a firm or have contacts with firms that are looking to dump AAPL so they put a "Buy" rating on it so the poor schleps will fork over their money to the bog boys as the big boys sell.

If you're going to trade or even invest in individual stocks you are going to have to either learn fundamental-based investing or technical-based (chart reading) investing and I would encourage you to do both. Otherwise you are just going with a gut feeling or otherwise a "hot tip". You don't have to have an MBA to trade based on fundamentals and you don't have to spend hours upon hours pouring over charts to trade based on technicals.

What you do need to do is have a plan and some criteria and rules. Understand the more savvy side of things. Perhaps you should have bought a Put when you bought your AAPL as a hedge? Or perhaps you should have sold a long time ago using a Stop-Loss rule of 10% and took your lumps and walked away?

These are the things I am talking about. If you're going to do it, then do it and do it right. Otherwise just $-cost average into mutual funds and call it a day. There is nothing wrong with doing that at all, it's just boring but often works out much better in the long run.

One of the rare times I actually agree with you. I'll be hitting you up for more suggestions later.

lewdog 08-19-2016 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wutamess (Post 12375862)
One of the rare times I actually agree with you. I'll be hitting you up for more suggestions later.

Pete is definitely right, and you know what makes up a large percentage of SP500 funds? Apple.

So if a large percentage of your investments in mutual funds are in large caps and broad market index funds, you are already getting plenty of exposure to a big company like Apple. If you decide to take on more Apple as individual stock, fine. But know that it can be more risky as you are leveraging more of your total capital on the gains/losses of one company.

petegz28 08-19-2016 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wutamess (Post 12375862)
One of the rare times I actually agree with you. I'll be hitting you up for more suggestions later.

Rare? Now you gotta go and tell flat out lies???

Demonpenz 08-19-2016 12:54 PM

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/pAyXyrujYGU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I am grinding through "the intelligent investor"

wutamess 08-19-2016 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix (Post 12374689)
Slum lord is a good way to go.

So is mindlessly investing in very low cost index funds (or ETFs, as you prefer) on a systematic basis. That approach gives you diversification and participation with relatively minimal effort. You're not trying to time the market, and you're not trying to outperform the market in general. Basically, market returns for as little cost as possible.

https://www.amazon.com/Random-Walk-D...1553064&sr=1-1

I got the audio book on audible but it's like watching paint dry. Trying to give it a chance while at work. My ADHD is kicking in BAD though.

phisherman 08-19-2016 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wutamess (Post 12375862)
One of the rare times I actually agree with you. I'll be hitting you up for more suggestions later.

I can't believe that you just admitted to agreeing with Pete... whoa

wutamess 08-19-2016 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phisherman (Post 12376320)
I can't believe that you just admitted to agreeing with Pete... whoa

Let him tell it, I do it all of the time. :eek:

scho63 08-19-2016 06:22 PM

5 Attachment(s)
Someone requested an update on my living at the office situation so here it is.

So as of August 15th it was a solid two months. It is getting easier and more comfortable, which is starting to scare me. I have adapted to this as if it was my natural home.

I bumped my 401K from 10% to 20%, 15% regular and 5% catch up. I haven't noticed a thing. I currently have only (4) monthly payments and two of the four are going to be gone in the next 90 days. By December, I will have only my car payment and car insurance to pay. The car payment will then be the next payment I will erase as I am saving money pretty well. I think I can get rid of that completely by Feb.

I'm doing some things pretty well but I need to get to the gym more often as that was one of my combined goals. Lose weight with saving money.

I still eat great and the full kitchen is perfect. My locker and shower photos are attached along with my bedroom.

I thought I would only do this for 4-5 months but I might make this a year project. No issues and the cleaning lady from El Salvador is my friend now because I offer her soda, food, help her to realize when no one is here and tell her not to bother with certain cleaning issues when everyone is telecommuting for the day.

Two weeks ago I had to get a hotel because they were going to stripe and paint the parking lot. I stayed at a Sheraton for 3 nights and I slept better at the office on my air mattress!

The A/C is on all the time and the lights are on a 6:10 am until 10pm then it goes to safety lighting, which is perfect.

I get up everyday at 5:50am, deflate my air bed, move the fan to my desk, put in my contacts, make a cup of coffee, and read the news before I take a shower at 6:15. All my items are put away 30 minutes before anyone comes in.

I use my storage locker to leave the bulk of my clothes, which is only 2 miles away.

I watch Pirates baseball and Chiefs football on large computer monitors in the office and even have a projection screen should I want to use it.

I store some food in the fridge freezer to save money

I go to sleep and blow up my airbed around 9pm each night. I have a lock on the door so I can keep the cleaning lady out when she vacumns and I want to sleep early.

The weekends I keep my bed blown up from Friday night until Mon morning.

That's about all I can think of.

EDIT: NO WHORES OR ESCORTS FOR THE LAST 8-9 MONTHS SO I AM TRULY SACRIFICING!

lewdog 08-19-2016 06:37 PM

This is still so ****ing legit Scho! Can't believe you can do it and how well you seem to have adjusted to living like that.

Awesome stuff.

scho63 08-19-2016 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lewdog (Post 12376721)
This is still so ****ing legit Scho! Can't believe you can do it and how well you seem to have adjusted to living like that.

Awesome stuff.

I have lived on both extreme ends of the spectrum: flying first and business class to Hong Kong and Beijing and Tokyo being picked up in limousines. Traveling all over the world to great countries (38) so far, top notch restaurants and sleeping with hundreds of women. Having money falling out of my pockets because I had so much. Mega clubs and drugs and celebrities and athletes as friends.

Then I have also gone through several times of absolute despair of homelessness for 3-4 months, losing a business and several hundred thousand dollars, having some crazy legal issues that cost me dearly, losing my drivers license at least 12 times with 48 points in NJ because I drove like a maniac and sped in my Jaguar or Eldorado.

I have a real problem with moderation and impulse control. I'm balls out and extreme and a big risk taker. It's not for everyone

No one can ever accuse me of not getting my money's worth out of life..... :D

Jewish Rabbi 08-19-2016 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scho63 (Post 12376744)

No one can ever accuse me of not getting my money's worth out of life..... :D

Except you like the Pirates and Chiefs...

scho63 08-19-2016 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jewish Rabbi (Post 12376760)
Except you like the Pirates and Chiefs...

ROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFL

scho63 08-19-2016 07:09 PM

5 Attachment(s)
My bed making process. I have a fan to blow cool air all night as well. I make sure it's all taken care of. Air pump, perfect space, hidden nice in storage room. From deflated to fully inflated and firm at 4-5 minutes. Deflates in 1 minute. Setup takes 7 minutes, take down about 5 minutes.

Weekends I can sleep in-no one ever shows up early and only in a blue moon does someone come in on Saturday

lewdog 08-19-2016 07:11 PM

Only question left to answer............


How's the cleaning lady between the sheets?

scho63 08-19-2016 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lewdog (Post 12376818)
Only question left to answer............


How's the cleaning lady between the sheets?

She's too hard looking, old and worn out but once in a while she brings her hot daughter age 20-24 max in to help her clean and teach her the ropes. I would like to lick her daughter's pupusa like the sexy little El Salvadorian she is! :drool:

scho63 08-19-2016 07:27 PM

Lewdog-this is what I'm aiming for retirement in 3-5 years.

http://www.realtor.com/realestateand...2-92088#photo6

Here is the property I had when the dotcom bubble crashed. I had a 1997 sq ft property under contract for build with Pinnacle Builders along with a full gunite pool with rocks from California Pools and Spas. I gave the property back to the builder and he gave me back my $25,000.

The new contract people built a much large house

http://www.realtor.com/realestateand...2_M10215-66837

lewdog 08-19-2016 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scho63 (Post 12376861)
Lewdog-this is what I'm aiming for retirement in 3-5 years.

http://www.realtor.com/realestateand...2-92088#photo6

Here is the property I had when the dotcom bubble crashed. I had a 1997 sq ft property under contract for build with Pinnacle Builders along with a full gunite pool with rocks from California Pools and Spas. I gave the property back to the builder and he gave me back my $25,000.

The new contract people built a much large house

http://www.realtor.com/realestateand...2_M10215-66837


I love the idea of a nicely finished townhouse when you are older and kid free. That's definitely more tastefully done than that second house you posted. I forget, have you lived here before?

scho63 08-20-2016 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lewdog (Post 12376870)
I forget, have you lived here before?

From 1996 until 2001 I spent an enormous amount of time in Scottsdale and was contracted to buy that new house in 1998 in Pinnacle Canyon at the Troon North Golf Course. Put up $25,000 had mortgage approval, had pool designed, had house moved on pie shaped lot to maximize one side and then 20 days before construction began the market crashed. Then our company's funding dried up and the rest was history. The market in Scottsdale was so strong that the builder refunded 100% of my deposit and resold the place for an extra 40K.

I know the Scottsdale real estate market as good as anyone. Look at it every day for last 17 years.

My house there went from $284,000 to $715,000 in 3 1/2 years AFTER I turned it back.

Bad timing for sure. :facepalm:

wutamess 08-22-2016 10:25 AM

WTF? I missed this story. You doing this out of your office that someone owns or you own? Does anyone there know about it or say anything?

DaFace 08-22-2016 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wutamess (Post 12380930)
WTF? I missed this story. You doing this out of your office that someone owns or you own? Does anyone there know about it or say anything?

...

Quote:

Originally Posted by scho63 (Post 12328755)
I'm now living rent free, utility and cable free, property tax free, renter insurance free and I've cut back on going out to an expensive late lunch or dinner 5-6 nights a week until at least December. I've moved into my office. At 120-130K income for the year the money should accumulate rapidly.

I have complete bedroom setup, clean clothes, shower and locker room, full kitchen with convention oven microwave, full refrigerator, dishwasher, normal microwave, free tea, free coffee, snacks,safe and quiet environment.

I have a car payment, which I want to pay off the $14,600 in November, a few other small bills and a Fed Tax bill from 2010 of around $7,000. My 401K has grown faster in 2 years than any other of my savings attempts in 30 years. I'm moving it up from 10-15% and can utilize some catch up provisions.

I'm single and decided to set aside 6 months of serious sacrifice to jump start my retirment goal of living in Scottsdale. :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by scho63 (Post 12329555)
The main boss and only he knows I am here as I got his approval first. I had been thinking about this for 3-4 months before my townhome lease expired and I launched the plan so it was effortless. I told him I would be staying here for the next 4-5 months or UNTIL someone found out and complained. Told him it was solely to save money. As of this moment, no one knows but I think the Hispanic cleaning lady probably has a good idea because I am always here on the computer until they leave.

I spent $54,500 on rent and utilities for the last two years and also lent the ex-girlfriend $11,000 of which she gave me back a paltry $1,000 total. That's $64,000 AFTER TAX dollars I spent which is around $90,000 GROSS INCOME. When I look back at the fiasco of renting a place too big and too expensive because of her and all the money I pissed away, I wanted to do something very radical in the opposite direction.

I just rented a storage unit in a super clean and safe well known building where I moved all my belongings that costs $75 a month. Keypad entry and I have 3 hanging wardrobe boxes that I have my clothes hung on to rotate what I wear. I have several days of clothes along with clean towels in my trunk. Our building has a complete shower and locker room where I store all my shampoo, soap, razor, toothbrush, etc in a locker with a lock on it. Only two out of ten are being utilized.

I rented a PO box for 6 months for all my mail and all shipments like Amazon are sent to my office.

I have an twin raised air mattress 22" off the floor that blows up with the electric pump in 3-4 minutes and deflates in 1 with the quick release. I blow it up around 9pm after the cleaning people have left and deflate every morning during the week by 6am.

The office I sleep in has a lock on the door so I can prevent someone if they ever showed up from coming in.

The bathroom-shower is directly across from our office and I can go any time at night with no one seeing me.

I have shower pants and a Tshirt I use with flip flops when I change into my sleeping gear. Sleep in my undies.

This commercial building has only two floors and has little to no early workers. It is has two large offices next to us which have been vacant for a while so occupancy is light.

The A/C is on all week and only shuts off on Saturday around 1pm. I have a small Honeywell electric fan that works perfect that I set up to blow on me when I sleep. On Sundays I have to plug in a small lamp in the shower room as the main lights and A/C are off only on that day.

I have a large box with two pillow, two comforters, a cotton blanket, a sheet and the airmattress all fit in that I store on a shelf with my name as PERSONAL. I also have a small little lamp on the desk and I use the flashlight feature on my phone when needed.

I put all my dirty clothes in a hefty garbage bag in my trunk and drop off at a Hispanic run laundry that does wash and fold for $1.25 a pound. It's 10 minutes away and I drop off my laundry once every 8-10 days in the morning and by evening all my clothes are washed to my instructions and folded perfectly, better than I can do! Costs me around $45 a month for laundry service. Very cheap.

There are only 11 other people that work in the office with me and they sometimes telecommute.

I have a full kitchen with coffee, tea, snacks, juice, soda, full fridge, freezer, convection oven, and large table.

So far I've been here 5 1/2 weeks and it has flown by. My bank account is growing again and I should be in great shape at the end of the year.

This is a big trend out in Silicon Valley and certainly not for everyone but it is working out perfect so far for me. Took some planning for sure.

Now you know.....


lewdog 08-29-2016 08:17 PM

Wanna know how many here use their Roth also as an emergency savings vehicle like this article suggests since contributions can be withdrawn tax/penalty free? I see this posted a lot lately and it makes sense for many I would think after you have a savings account emergency fund but still wanna have an option to stay relatively liquid without parking in a savings account and getting nothing. Any of you do this? What kind of funds do you use?

https://blog.mint.com/saving/does-us...d-idea-052012/

Nightfyre 08-29-2016 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lewdog (Post 12394376)
Wanna know how many here use their Roth also as an emergency savings vehicle like this article suggests since contributions can be withdrawn tax/penalty free? I see this posted a lot lately and it makes sense for many I would think after you have a savings account emergency fund but still wanna have an option to stay relatively liquid without parking in a savings account and getting nothing. Any of you do this? What kind of funds do you use?

https://blog.mint.com/saving/does-us...d-idea-052012/

I don't believe you can withdraw contributions penalty free, as any withdrawal from a Roth is a distribution. So if not a qualified distribution, it would be subject to the 10% penalty, though not taxes unless you got through all your contributions.

https://www.irs.gov/publications/p59...link1000231061

lewdog 08-29-2016 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightfyre (Post 12394389)
I don't believe you can withdraw contributions penalty free, as any withdrawal from a Roth is a distribution. So if not a qualified distribution, it would be subject to the 10% penalty, though not taxes unless you got through all your contributions.

https://www.irs.gov/publications/p59...link1000231061

You can withdraw your contributions tax free (since you paid taxes on that money already) at any time after 5 years from your initial contribution. You get taxed a penalty if you withdrawn your gains, however.

Copied from your link:

A qualified distribution is any payment or distribution from your Roth IRA that meets the following requirements.

It is made after the 5-year period beginning with the first taxable year for which a contribution was made to a Roth IRA set up for your benefit, and

Nightfyre 08-29-2016 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lewdog (Post 12394392)
You can withdraw your contributions tax free (since you paid taxes on that money already) at any time after 5 years from your initial contribution.

But not penalty free.

I stand corrected. Contributions over five years are penalty and tax free.

lewdog 08-29-2016 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightfyre (Post 12394395)
But not penalty free.

I stand corrected. Contributions over five years are penalty and tax free.

Read the link I posted. I see no one making mention of any penalty on contributions, which is why people are doing this.

lewdog 08-29-2016 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightfyre (Post 12394395)
But not penalty free.

I stand corrected. Contributions over five years are penalty and tax free.

LOL. Ok. I wasn't sure but that's what I am reading.

Some people are parking some extra money, in something like a short term bond fund or money market in hopes of gaining a bit of tax free money but also something low risk with fairly immediate access to cash in an emergency. People are claiming this is in addition to a taxable emergency fund such as a savings account which generates little interest but is also taxed. Build this small emergency fund in your Roth to something like an extra $10k over the duration of a few years and then start putting your entire yearly contribution into a Roth back to all retirement funds. Gives you a little bit of extra liquidity without being taxed if you had to touch it later, with the hope that you don't have to.

I guess that's the point?

DaFace 08-29-2016 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lewdog (Post 12394376)
Wanna know how many here use their Roth also as an emergency savings vehicle like this article suggests since contributions can be withdrawn tax/penalty free? I see this posted a lot lately and it makes sense for many I would think after you have a savings account emergency fund but still wanna have an option to stay relatively liquid without parking in a savings account and getting nothing. Any of you do this? What kind of funds do you use?

https://blog.mint.com/saving/does-us...d-idea-052012/

Eh, kind of. I still keep a healthy emergency fund in savings, but when I have considered if I should go even higher, the fact that a Roth is sitting there if things got REALLY bad has kept me from doing it.

Nightfyre 08-29-2016 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lewdog (Post 12394450)
LOL. Ok. I wasn't sure but that's what I am reading.

Some people are parking some extra money, in something like a short term bond fund or money market in hopes of gaining a bit of tax free money but also something low risk with fairly immediate access to cash in an emergency. People are claiming this is in addition to a taxable emergency fund such as a savings account which generates little interest but is also taxed. Build this small emergency fund in your Roth to something like an extra $10k over the duration of a few years and then start putting your entire yearly contribution into a Roth back to all retirement funds. Gives you a little bit of extra liquidity without being taxed if you had to touch it later, with the hope that you don't have to.

I guess that's the point?


You can invest it in the stock market as well. That said, I would rather keep my Roth contributions protected and earning moar tax free gains, so maintaining some healthy savings balance seems prudent.

lewdog 08-29-2016 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaFace (Post 12394466)
Eh, kind of. I still keep a healthy emergency fund in savings, but when I have considered if I should go even higher, the fact that a Roth is sitting there if things got REALLY bad has kept me from doing it.

I am where you are at mentally. We have a good chunk sitting in savings for emergencies, 6 months roughly. I keep thinking it should be higher but we also don't max our Roth's yet. I am wondering if I should take an extra $2k at the end of the year and max out our Roth's into a low risk fund like they are suggesting for a bit added emergency funds?

lewdog 08-29-2016 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightfyre (Post 12394479)
You can invest it in the stock market as well. That said, I would rather keep my Roth contributions protected and earning moar tax free gains, so maintaining some healthy savings balance seems prudent.

Yea, having access to stocks is a different animal for what I am talking about. As you are aware, you'd hate for an emergency to happen and you have to sell stocks when they are sitting low.

Did you spell moar like that trying to troll me? :D

Discuss Thrower 08-29-2016 09:06 PM

I invested roughly $300 in blackjack and roulette this weekend. Get at me.

Buehler445 08-29-2016 10:03 PM

I don't. I have a pile of cash parked in the bank because I'm a bad manager at the moment. I really need to get my books done and do all my inter-entity reimbusements done and tighten things up.

But again, bad manager at the moment.

Demonpenz 08-30-2016 01:35 AM

must be nice to be rich

LoneWolf 08-30-2016 02:17 AM

Mo money, Mo problems.

Nightfyre 08-30-2016 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lewdog (Post 12394559)
Yea, having access to stocks is a different animal for what I am talking about. As you are aware, you'd hate for an emergency to happen and you have to sell stocks when they are sitting low.

Did you spell moar like that trying to troll me? :D

You know I live to troll. :)

wutamess 08-30-2016 09:00 AM

Well... I've come to the realization that other than a layoff, having to take an emergency trip or pay for a funeral (Which I just paid for my fathers), I just don't need much more than $2000 in savings.

I keep $2-3K in savings/emergency account, then max out ROTH IRA contributions as it's a secondary savings and then the rest goes to an out of pocket/regular investment account. The 6+ months emergency fund is in the Roth IRA since withdrawals aren't taxed or penalized (which I've never had to draw on).

Is any of this a bad idea?

Buehler445 08-30-2016 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wutamess (Post 12395188)
Well... I've come to the realization that other than a layoff, having to take an emergency trip or pay for a funeral (Which I just paid for my fathers), I just don't need much more than $2000 in savings.

I keep $2-3K in savings/emergency account, then max out ROTH IRA contributions as it's a secondary savings and then the rest goes to an out of pocket/regular investment account. The 6+ months emergency fund is in the Roth IRA since withdrawals aren't taxed or penalized (which I've never had to draw on).

Is any of this a bad idea?

I'd keep more out than that. Engine/transmission, HVAC, roof leaks, etc will cost you more than that and getting loans out on that shit is sketchy.

lewdog 08-30-2016 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wutamess (Post 12395188)
Well... I've come to the realization that other than a layoff, having to take an emergency trip or pay for a funeral (Which I just paid for my fathers), I just don't need much more than $2000 in savings.

I keep $2-3K in savings/emergency account, then max out ROTH IRA contributions as it's a secondary savings and then the rest goes to an out of pocket/regular investment account. The 6+ months emergency fund is in the Roth IRA since withdrawals aren't taxed or penalized (which I've never had to draw on).

Is any of this a bad idea?

No, nothing wrong with this idea and it's exactly what I was talking about.

Although I definitely like to keep more on hand for emergencies than $2k. Car repair, pool repair, AC repair, home maintenance projects, buying furniture, those can easily run close to or over $2k at a given time. I'd treat the Roth emergency more like a $5-10k+ type of emergency myself but plenty of people do just what you're saying and really have a low amount of money in savings accounts.

Discuss Thrower 08-30-2016 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buehler445 (Post 12395192)
I'd keep more out than that. Engine/transmission, HVAC, roof leaks, etc will cost you more than that and getting loans out on that shit is sketchy.

Money Market or continually roll over some short term CDs..?

eDave 08-30-2016 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoneWolf (Post 12394910)
No money, Mo problems.

FYP

wutamess 08-30-2016 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buehler445 (Post 12395192)
I'd keep more out than that. Engine/transmission, HVAC, roof leaks, etc will cost you more than that and getting loans out on that shit is sketchy.

I have Roth contributions I can tap into that gets put into my account overnight if I need it. Roof has a lifetime warranty HVAC will cost me $1800 to get replaced. Furnace is 5 years new. Engine/Transmission, I'd tap reserves.

lewdog 08-30-2016 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wutamess (Post 12396027)
I have Roth contributions I can tap into that gets put into my account overnight if I need it. Roof has a lifetime warranty HVAC will cost me $1800 to get replaced. Furnace is 5 years new. Engine/Transmission, I'd tap reserves.

Have you ever actually tapped your Roth? I worry it's not as seamless as it seems. Then again, even if it takes 2 weeks, you could always charge it and pay it off in full once the money arrives I suppose.

Discuss Thrower 08-30-2016 03:24 PM

Obviously the opposite of investing and being money savvy, which credit cards are y'all using? Any good perks / rewards out there beyond the ones the churner cokeheads are angling for?

Amnorix 08-30-2016 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Discuss Thrower (Post 12396050)
Obviously the opposite of investing and being money savvy, which credit cards are y'all using? Any good perks / rewards out there beyond the ones the churner cokeheads are angling for?


I like simple. I'm sure there are cards that you can "work" to get better rewards out of them, but I don't have time/patience for that.

Therefore, Fidelity Visa. No annual fee and 2% cash back on everything I buy, which gets automatically deposited into whatever Fidelity account(s) I choose, which can include a kid's UFund (529 Plan) account.

EDIT: And, btw, I don't think using a credit card isn't money savvy. I think it is, SO LONG AS YOU PAY THE BALANCE IN FULL EVERY MONTH WITHOUT FAIL. Which you absolutely must do. If so, then they basically pay YOU interest for them giving you a loan. Yes please...

lewdog 08-30-2016 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Discuss Thrower (Post 12396050)
Obviously the opposite of investing and being money savvy, which credit cards are y'all using? Any good perks / rewards out there beyond the ones the churner cokeheads are angling for?

I have a US bank cash back card. Select categories are 2% for clothes, groceries, gas and furniture. 5% for something like a cellphone bill. 1% everything else. I take cash back at end of year, with last year was over $600. People don't realize this is also tax free money, and since I am paying it off every month (no interest), this is a better way to earn money then something like a CD which ties up money and would cost me investing $60k on a 1% rate to make $600 back in a year.

Charging everything is a no brainer if you have the discipline to stick to a budget and know your finances. If you can't pay it in full every month, don't do this.


/soap box

Nirvana58 08-30-2016 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Discuss Thrower (Post 12396050)
Obviously the opposite of investing and being money savvy, which credit cards are y'all using? Any good perks / rewards out there beyond the ones the churner cokeheads are angling for?

Citi Double Cash gives you 2% back on everything. 0 annual fee's and has an 18 month 0% apr. That is currently my favorite credit card. Only problem is if they increase your credit limit they make you wait 6 months to increase it again. Which can be a pain if you are using for Business transactions.

Chase Slate has 0 transfer fees and I believe 18 month apr. It is really good card to transfer a high interest credit card too.

Amazon rewards card gives you 3% cash back on all purchases from Amazon. So if you are a prime member or order a lot of stuff off of Amazon it definitely comes in handy. No Annual Fees

Chase Freedom does 5% cash back on revolving 3 months categories. It can be pretty nice if when they do an Amazon, Grocery Store, or Gas. Plus they give you I believe 100 or 200 dollars back if you spend a thousand the first month. No Annual Fees

Discuss Thrower 08-30-2016 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nirvana58 (Post 12396085)

Amazon rewards card gives you 3% cash back on all purchases from Amazon. So if you are a prime member or order a lot of stuff off of Amazon it definitely comes in handy. No Annual Fees

Fffff****, I should have applied to this one before I ordered my books for the semester.

Jewish Rabbi 08-30-2016 04:11 PM

Fidelity Visa and Citi Double Cash are about as good as they come for those looking to keep it simple. Solid recommendations.

ChiliConCarnage 08-30-2016 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Discuss Thrower (Post 12396104)
Fffff****, I should have applied to this one before I ordered my books for the semester.

The prime store card gives 5%. Have to be a prime member. Ive never used it though myself

Buehler445 08-30-2016 07:53 PM

I have a card through my local bank that I use solely for reimbursable expenses. Wife has a Cabela's card she got when we got engaged (she had no credit history at all).

Last year we got a SAMs card because I was tired of dicking with debit cards and shit. They don't take Visa and that's all I had otherwise.

Pretty much chose mine because of convenience and don't want to change for the billion years of credit history I would give up.

FWIW they are all 3 auto debited each month. Highly recommend it.

Rain Man 08-30-2016 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buehler445 (Post 12396576)
I have a card through my local bank that I use solely for reimbursable expenses. Wide has a Cabela's card she got when we got engaged (she had no credit history at all).

You better hope your wife never finds out you call her that.

DaFace 08-30-2016 10:55 PM

I'm primarily using a Discover Miles card that they don't offer anymore. $60 annual fee, but straight 2% on everything (assuming you use it for either travel credit or Amazon). I also have an Amazon card for the 3% at Amazon and a Costco card that does 4% on gas, 3% on restaurants, 2% at Costco, and 1% for everything else, but the rewards are only redeemable at Costco.

If people aren't aware of it, Nerdwallet is a fantastic resource for evaluating rewards cards. They have a calculator that lets you tell it roughly how much you spend on various categories each month, and it'll give you suggestions on which cards will net you the most in rewards.

https://www.nerdwallet.com/credit-cards

DaFace 08-30-2016 10:56 PM

Oh, and I charge literally everything I can for the rewards. Everyday expenses, monthly bills - everything. If they let me charge it, I do. I probably rack up around $50-$75 in rewards every month. As lewdog said, you just have to be sure you have the discipline to never spend more than you can immediately pay off. Carrying balances is bad mmkay.

Buehler445 08-31-2016 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain Man (Post 12396738)
You better hope your wife never finds out you call her that.

Goddamned autocorrect. Fixed it.

ChiliConCarnage 09-01-2016 04:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaFace (Post 12397052)
I also have an Amazon card for the 3% at Amazon and a Costco card that does 4% on gas, 3% on restaurants, 2% at Costco, and 1% for everything else, but the rewards are only redeemable at Costco.

I was thinking about getting the new Costco card but then read someone say they were having to call in because Quiktrip wasn't being flagged as gas. I don't want to track that shit and have to call in and have them fix it. Are you having good luck with it assigning gas and restaurants properly?

I was already on edge because I don't like how they pay the money back but the %s were high enough it seemed like it might be worth it.

wutamess 09-01-2016 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lewdog (Post 12396045)
Have you ever actually tapped your Roth? I worry it's not as seamless as it seems. Then again, even if it takes 2 weeks, you could always charge it and pay it off in full once the money arrives I suppose.

Actually, I had to take money out of both IRAs (wife and mine) last month because we can't contribute the maximum $5500 to both IRAs anymore or we'll get penalized. So I Sold off the some stagnant investments out of both of them and transferred the money to my bank account the next day. No penalty had to come out and it was rather painless. Entire process took 2 days as the money was in my bank account the next business day after the transfer.

It's as simple as that. It literally is a savings account.


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