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Baby Lee 03-24-2015 10:17 AM

Only 2 EPS LEFT?!?!?!?

:deevee::deevee::deevee::deevee::deevee::deevee::deevee::deevee::deevee::deevee::deevee::deevee:

notorious 03-24-2015 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buck (Post 11400570)
God damn this show is great.

I fear for what will happen to Jimmy in the next episode. I don't think using Chuck's printer code was very smart.

I am guessing HHM is going to use that to get the fees associated with the case.

Saul is going to make money, but not great money. This office in BB is proof.

DJ's left nut 03-24-2015 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notorious (Post 11401319)
I am guessing HHM is going to use that to get the fees associated with the case.

Saul is going to make money, but not great money. This office in BB is proof.

I've never watched BB - is Chuck in it at all?

If no, my guess is that somewhere during the pendency of the case, Chuck dies and Hamlin takes over as lead counsel thus forcing Jimmy off the case.

The whole 'prequel' side of this is a little unsettling because you see that Jimmy's really a pretty decent guy with a bit of a shyster streak to him and in the end, absolutely none of this is going to end well for him.

penguinz 03-24-2015 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 11401374)
I've never watched BB - is Chuck in it at all?

If no, my guess is that somewhere during the pendency of the case, Chuck dies and Hamlin takes over as lead counsel thus forcing Jimmy off the case.

The whole 'prequel' side of this is a little unsettling because you see that Jimmy's really a pretty decent guy with a bit of a shyster streak to him and in the end, absolutely none of this is going to end well for him.

How can you say that? He ends up managing a Cinnabon which means all the free cinnamon roles you can eat.

'Hamas' Jenkins 03-24-2015 03:00 PM

I think it's far more likely that Chuck ends up institutionalized than dead. The ending of the episode this week further drove home the psychosomatic nature of his illness, and since he knows he was fine before Jimmy said something to him, it's likely that it will further reinforce the inconsistency of his illness to himself, lumping self-doubt on top of psychosis.

Also, using his printing code will likely be used as an excuse from cashing Chuck out, as HHM can say that he was capable of working, as evidenced by the code usage. Thus their pittance of a pay-off will be seen as justifiable because Chuck "could" work, but chose not to.

So, Chuck ends up 1) institutionalized and 2) without any remuneration from the firm he built.

On top of that, Jimmy will lose the right to use his name, as foreshadowed earlier this season, and based on what he's seen, there's not really much of a reason not to become a criminal lawyer, because where does being upstanding get you?

notorious 03-24-2015 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 11401374)
I've never watched BB - is Chuck in it at all?

If no, my guess is that somewhere during the pendency of the case, Chuck dies and Hamlin takes over as lead counsel thus forcing Jimmy off the case.

The whole 'prequel' side of this is a little unsettling because you see that Jimmy's really a pretty decent guy with a bit of a shyster streak to him and in the end, absolutely none of this is going to end well for him.

I think that HHM see's that Chuck is working on the case by using his code.


Therefore, they can bill for it, screwing over McGill.

notorious 03-24-2015 04:19 PM

It looks like Hamas beat me to it.

Good work.

Chiefspants 03-24-2015 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notorious (Post 11401579)
I think that HHM see's that Chuck is working on the case by using his code.


Therefore, they can bill for it, screwing over McGill.

Yup. Jimmy is screwed. Kim will side with HHM, and Saul will be born at this season's conclusion.

Hope Saul finds a way to screw over HHM hard next year.

L.A. Chieffan 03-24-2015 08:37 PM

There's definitely a problem with the timeline on this show and with BB. This show is set sometime in the mid to late 90's and BB in the late 00's however Mike's granddaughter is basically the same age. Sucks, but I guess there was no way around it.

Edit: I see now that BCS takes place in 2002, 6 years before Breaking Bad which closes the gap a bit but still can't hide the fact that she hadn't really aged at all. They should've made her an infant in BCS

Molitoth 03-24-2015 10:02 PM

Finally caught up. This show is freaking awesome. Far exceeding my expectations.

Molitoth 03-24-2015 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 11401475)
I think it's far more likely that Chuck ends up institutionalized than dead. The ending of the episode this week further drove home the psychosomatic nature of his illness, and since he knows he was fine before Jimmy said something to him, it's likely that it will further reinforce the inconsistency of his illness to himself, lumping self-doubt on top of psychosis.

Also, using his printing code will likely be used as an excuse from cashing Chuck out, as HHM can say that he was capable of working, as evidenced by the code usage. Thus their pittance of a pay-off will be seen as justifiable because Chuck "could" work, but chose not to.

So, Chuck ends up 1) institutionalized and 2) without any remuneration from the firm he built.

On top of that, Jimmy will lose the right to use his name, as foreshadowed earlier this season, and based on what he's seen, there's not really much of a reason not to become a criminal lawyer, because where does being upstanding get you?

Damn dude, I think you nailed it. :clap:

Chiefspants 03-24-2015 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by L.A. Chieffan (Post 11401986)
There's definitely a problem with the timeline on this show and with BB. This show is set sometime in the mid to late 90's and BB in the late 00's however Mike's granddaughter is basically the same age. Sucks, but I guess there was no way around it.

Edit: I see now that BCS takes place in 2002, 6 years before Breaking Bad which closes the gap a bit but still can't hide the fact that she hadn't really aged at all. They should've made her an infant in BCS

Kaylee was 10 years old in Breaking Bad. Faith Healey (the actress who plays Kaylee in BCS) is four.

RobBlake 03-24-2015 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gonzo (Post 11400783)
It's pretty rare for me to get so immersed into a story that I actually get pissed off that it ends so soon. This show does that almost every week. Yesterday's episode wasn't all that action packed but the story is so good that I just get lost in it.
I'm really curious as to how this lawsuit gets derailed. It's also looking fairly likely that we're going to see Mr. Fring here pretty quick.

why do you say that?

DaneMcCloud 03-24-2015 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gonzo (Post 11400783)
It's pretty rare for me to get so immersed into a story that I actually get pissed off that it ends so soon. This show does that almost every week. Yesterday's episode wasn't all that action packed but the story is so good that I just get lost in it.
I'm really curious as to how this lawsuit gets derailed. It's also looking fairly likely that we're going to see Mr. Fring here pretty quick.

I'm hoping we get at least another season, if not two, before further elements of Breaking Bad appear.

The show is great as a stand alone, IMO. There is quite a bit left yet to mine before they need to go there.

Chiefspants 03-25-2015 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud (Post 11402265)
I'm hoping we get at least another season, if not two, before further elements of Breaking Bad appear.

The show is great as a stand alone, IMO. There is quite a bit left yet to mine before they need to go there.

Yep. I think Gus should come in at the end of Season 2/Beginning of Season 3.

Watching Gus face off against a pre-stroke Hector Salamanca would have BB fans lubing up across the country.

eDave 03-25-2015 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefspants (Post 11402281)
Yep. I think Gus should come in at the end of Season 2/Beginning of Season 3.

Watching Gus face off against a pre-stroke Hector Salamanca would have BB fans lubing up across the country.

Heh.

frankotank 03-25-2015 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud (Post 11397575)
I've never seen a TV program with so many expectations from fans and media actually immdiately exceed those lofty expectations.

I was positive I'd hate it. absolutely positive.

1 - BB is damn near hallowed ground. don't **** with it!
2 - I thought they'd expand/exploit Sauls humorous side....make it some stupid comedy

never been so happy to be wrong

Fire Me Boy! 03-25-2015 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frankotank (Post 11402989)
I was positive I'd hate it. absolutely positive.

1 - BB is damn near hallowed ground. don't **** with it!
2 - I thought they'd expand/exploit Sauls humorous side....make it some stupid comedy

never been so happy to be wrong

I think it was originally thought to be a half-hour sitcom. They got to working on it and decided that wasn't the right way to go.

DJ's left nut 03-25-2015 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 11401475)
I think it's far more likely that Chuck ends up institutionalized than dead. The ending of the episode this week further drove home the psychosomatic nature of his illness, and since he knows he was fine before Jimmy said something to him, it's likely that it will further reinforce the inconsistency of his illness to himself, lumping self-doubt on top of psychosis.

Also, using his printing code will likely be used as an excuse from cashing Chuck out, as HHM can say that he was capable of working, as evidenced by the code usage. Thus their pittance of a pay-off will be seen as justifiable because Chuck "could" work, but chose not to.

So, Chuck ends up 1) institutionalized and 2) without any remuneration from the firm he built.

On top of that, Jimmy will lose the right to use his name, as foreshadowed earlier this season, and based on what he's seen, there's not really much of a reason not to become a criminal lawyer, because where does being upstanding get you?

TL;DR - long and boring stuff:

Spoiler!


It really would get incredibly nasty but that's kinda why I think it won't happen. It's the kind of shit that could/should hijack that show and suddenly it becomes an actual legal drama instead of a character study that happens to involve a lawyer. Obviously that isn't the direction they want to go with this show.

The cleaner out is to simply have Chuck die and his estate go to charity or something. At that point Jimmy wouldn't get the substantial buyout that Chuck is due via any kind of inheritance. He couldn't stand up to HHM because even if he has the chops, he doesn't have the resources. And HHM would have an easy avenue to substituting Hamlin as counsel (who could then force out Jimmy or buy him out cheap).

Then again, these guys are way better writers than me so it's seems likely that they'd avoid writing themselves into a corner.

DJ's left nut 03-25-2015 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notorious (Post 11401579)
I think that HHM see's that Chuck is working on the case by using his code.


Therefore, they can bill for it, screwing over McGill.

It wouldn't screw over McGill.

Yes, they could bill on it, but only for the time that Chuck actually spends. Moreover, that wouldn't come at the expense of Jimmy, provided that Jimmy is also working on it. Hell, who knows what his arrangement is with his clients but in the case of atty fee liens, they're distributed pro-rata. Well why wouldn't Chuck just fudge his numbers? Say he did 1/3 of the work. Even if he's billing at 3 times the rate, the split would be 50/50 of the fees earned and Jimmy'd still get a nice piece.

Co-Counsel arrangements exist all the time. That scenario shouldn't have any impact on Jimmy - who it would screw over is Chuck.

There has to be something more exotic than that to really blow Jimmy out of the water, unless the writers just play fast and loose with how those fee arrangements/buyouts are structured.

frankotank 03-25-2015 01:09 PM

Jimmy's pretty lawyer friend.....man....she gonna die. I just know it! and I'm thinking THAT is what creates Saul. pushes him out of the good guy box.

I'm thinking the nursing home lawyers hire a hit man or something and that somehow someway she gets offed....maybe by accident.....maybe to try and scare Jimmy. we already know they are crooked as shit. they are perfectly fine with robbing old people. so how far will they go to protect themselves and their cash cow? how bad ARE THEY? well if this is in the BB universe so......yikes.

and just maybe....in the midst of this scenario.....Tuco comes back on the scene....

Fire Me Boy! 03-25-2015 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frankotank (Post 11403047)
Jimmy's pretty lawyer friend.....man....she gonna die. I just know it! and I'm thinking THAT is what creates Saul. pushes him out of the good guy box.

I'm thinking the nursing home lawyers hire a hit man or something and that somehow someway she gets offed....maybe by accident.....maybe to try and scare Jimmy. we already know they are crooked as shit. they are perfectly fine with robbing old people. so how far will they go to protect themselves and their cash cow? how bad ARE THEY? well if this is in the BB universe so......yikes.

and just maybe....in the midst of this scenario.....Tuco comes back on the scene....

It's a stretch to say the lawyers are "perfectly fine with robbing old people." We know the people who run the home are fine with it; otherwise, all we know is the lawyers are fine with taking the home's money to defend them. One does not necessarily equal the other.

frankotank 03-25-2015 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fire Me Boy! (Post 11403054)
It's a stretch to say the lawyers are "perfectly fine with robbing old people." We know the people who run the home are fine with it; otherwise, all we know is the lawyers are fine with taking the home's money to defend them. One does not necessarily equal the other.

OK. point taken. I'll rephrase.

they are perfectly fine defending the pieces of shit who THEY KNOW are robbing old people.

DJ's left nut 03-25-2015 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frankotank (Post 11403071)
OK. point taken. I'll rephrase.

they are perfectly fine defending the pieces of shit who THEY KNOW are robbing old people.

Adversarial process, hoss - everyone's entitled to representation. Without it, the whole system crashes.

It's funny, but the legal system relies on the guiltiest of the guilty getting representation as well, otherwise the system will just turn into a gulag where the prosecutors become the judge.

There's a major MAJOR leap from 'they'll defend and crooked old folks home' to 'they'll !@#$ing kill people'.

Perhaps it's because I don't have the BB background, but it sure seems like that's a step removed from the fairly grounded reality they've created in BCS to this point.

Baby Lee 03-25-2015 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frankotank (Post 11403071)
OK. point taken. I'll rephrase.

they are perfectly fine defending the pieces of shit who THEY KNOW are robbing old people.

And physicians will save the life of the lowliest gang banger or child molester.

BWillie 03-25-2015 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefspants (Post 11402281)
Yep. I think Gus should come in at the end of Season 2/Beginning of Season 3.

Watching Gus face off against a pre-stroke Hector Salamanca would have BB fans lubing up across the country.

They might actually want to wait, & give Gus Fring his own show depending on how BCS does, which appears to be going very well so far. They debated initially where to do a spin off of "Better Call Saul" or "The Rise of Gus"

notorious 03-25-2015 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frankotank (Post 11403047)
Jimmy's pretty lawyer friend.....man....she gonna die. I just know it! and I'm thinking THAT is what creates Saul. pushes him out of the good guy box.

She gets fired, adds a few pounds and becomes Saul's secretary in Breaking Bad.



















I kid, I kid. :D

Chiefspants 03-25-2015 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BWillie (Post 11403329)
They might actually want to wait, & give Gus Fring his own show depending on how BCS does, which appears to be going very well so far. They debated initially where to do a spin off of "Better Call Saul" or "The Rise of Gus"

Los Pollos Hermanos!

Gonzo 03-25-2015 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobBlake (Post 11402259)
why do you say that?

Mikey is gonna be riding dirty. He's going to need a serious cash infusion, (obviously) and we all know where it ends up going. It might take a few more episodes but I'd expect a Gus appearance before too long.

Chiefspants 03-25-2015 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gonzo (Post 11403423)
Mikey is gonna be riding dirty. He's going to need a serious cash infusion, (obviously) and we all know where it ends up going. It might take a few more episodes but I'd expect a Gus appearance before too long.

I'm with you, but I think it would be better for the show's longevity if they held out on that storyline as long as possible.

'Hamas' Jenkins 03-25-2015 05:18 PM

I think it is highly unlikely that Gilligan would create a universe wherein a crooked vet could introduce a guy who is a few weeks off a train to the biggest meth kingpin in the American Southwest upon a single mention.

Gonzo 03-25-2015 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefspants (Post 11403464)
I'm with you, but I think it would be better for the show's longevity if they held out on that storyline as long as possible.

That's one thing about the writers... I don't think they really give a shit about longevity. I seem to recall them saying BB wasn't originally forecasted to last as long as it did.
This is probably the best show on TV IMO and I hope it goes 5-6 seasons like BB. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see them wrap it up in 4 though.

Buehler445 03-25-2015 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 11403503)
I think it is highly unlikely that Gilligan would create a universe wherein a crooked vet could introduce a guy who is a few weeks off a train to the biggest meth kingpin in the American Southwest upon a single mention.

Agreed

MahiMike 03-25-2015 06:15 PM

Last episode was the best one so far. Saul's $20M dream just died when Chuck went outside. Course, what did they think by asking to go to trial? Chuck can't leave the house. Can't even go to court via Skype.

Zebedee DuBois 03-25-2015 06:19 PM

I don't think Saul ever met Fring in BB. I'm not sure he even knew how heavily Mike was working for Gus. He just new Mike as an effective Private Investigator. It was only as Walter started stirring up things that Mike's split loyalties, or employers, became known.

RobBlake 03-25-2015 06:27 PM

i would be interesting to see how Mike gets involved with Fring.. like how deep does mike go for that? really interesting

'Hamas' Jenkins 03-25-2015 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MahiMike (Post 11403563)
Last episode was the best one so far. Saul's $20M dream just died when Chuck went outside. Course, what did they think by asking to go to trial? Chuck can't leave the house. Can't even go to court via Skype.

Jimmy did not ask for $20 million, Chuck did. Chuck's demand is what pushed the negotiation to the precipice of a trial.

Also, Chuck going outside did not kill the dream. Jimmy seeing Chuck triggered Chuck's meta-awareness of his conjured condition. Chuck's issue is one of perception.

RobBlake 03-25-2015 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 11403774)
Jimmy did not ask for $20 million, Chuck did. Chuck's demand is what pushed the negotiation to the precipice of a trial.

Also, Chuck going outside did not kill the dream. Jimmy seeing Chuck triggered Chuck's meta-awareness of his conjured condition. Chuck's issue is one of perception.

Jimmy is perhaps the cause or large part of his condition

'Hamas' Jenkins 03-25-2015 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobBlake (Post 11403781)
Jimmy is perhaps the cause or large part of his condition

I don't see how you could reach that conclusion.

Chuck has a phobia of electromagnetism that stems from his perception of its presence, not it actually being there, as indicated by the doctor turning on the hospital bed.

It isn't an issue of hypersensitivity; also, given what we've seen in flashbacks, it is obvious that Jimmy and Chuck A) were not close (given their conversation in Chicago) and B) that Jimmy was nothing other than responsible, working his way through law school and passing the bar while also working in the mail room of HHM.

Given that, how could Jimmy have caused Chuck's condition? It appears far more likely that Chuck works in a high stress job and likely suffered some form of stress-induced psychotic break that manifests itself as a fear of electromagnetism.

eDave 03-25-2015 09:52 PM

They emphasized the copy code scene a bit too much for my tastes. I'd have liked that foreshadowing to be a bit more subtle.

HHM can't use copy machines for personal use?

/not a lawyer.

Baby Lee 03-25-2015 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eDave (Post 11403862)
They emphasized the copy code scene a bit too much for my tastes. I'd have liked that foreshadowing to be a bit more subtle.

HHM can't use copy machines for personal use?

/not a lawyer.

It was a Westlaw download that cost, not the printing.

Westlaw is an online court opinion publication service like Lexus/Nexus, that provides certified accurate, formatted court written opinions, and law review articles, and breaks them down by subject, jurisdiction, holding, subsequent citations, etc. Back then, searching was usually free, but downloading for insertion into briefs or printing costs by jurisdiction and length. Nowadays most firms have a blanket monthly license tailored to their needs [ie, state courts where they do business, federal courts, major law reviews, and periodicals in their practice area], but usually still bill out to clients on the assumption/client agreement that longer cases take longer to review.

RobBlake 03-25-2015 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baby Lee (Post 11403873)
It was a Westlaw download that cost, not the printing.

Westlaw is an online court opinion publication service like Lexus/Nexus, that provides certified accurate, formatted court written opinions, and law review articles, and breaks them down by subject, jurisdiction, holding, subsequent citations, etc. Back then, searching was usually free, but downloading for insertion into briefs or printing costs by jurisdiction and length. Nowadays most firms have a blanket monthly license tailored to their needs [ie, state courts where they do business, federal courts, major law reviews, and periodicals in their practice area], but usually still bill out to clients on the assumption/client agreement that longer cases take longer to review.

yup.. hated using lexus in para school when i went

frankotank 03-26-2015 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 11403132)
Adversarial process, hoss - everyone's entitled to representation. Without it, the whole system crashes.

It's funny, but the legal system relies on the guiltiest of the guilty getting representation as well, otherwise the system will just turn into a gulag where the prosecutors become the judge.

There's a major MAJOR leap from 'they'll defend and crooked old folks home' to 'they'll !@#$ing kill people'.

Perhaps it's because I don't have the BB background, but it sure seems like that's a step removed from the fairly grounded reality they've created in BCS to this point.

yes it's far fetched. but BB world is nutty. gonna be a good ride. be pretty funny if my guess is right though. :D

mdchiefsfan 03-27-2015 01:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 11401475)
I think it's far more likely that Chuck ends up institutionalized than dead. The ending of the episode this week further drove home the psychosomatic nature of his illness, and since he knows he was fine before Jimmy said something to him, it's likely that it will further reinforce the inconsistency of his illness to himself, lumping self-doubt on top of psychosis.

Also, using his printing code will likely be used as an excuse from cashing Chuck out, as HHM can say that he was capable of working, as evidenced by the code usage. Thus their pittance of a pay-off will be seen as justifiable because Chuck "could" work, but chose not to.

So, Chuck ends up 1) institutionalized and 2) without any remuneration from the firm he built.

On top of that, Jimmy will lose the right to use his name, as foreshadowed earlier this season, and based on what he's seen, there's not really much of a reason not to become a criminal lawyer, because where does being upstanding get you?

Spoiler that shit!:D

penguinz 03-27-2015 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mdchiefsfan (Post 11405854)
Spoiler that shit!:D

Spoiler what? It is a theory on what he thinks will happen.

It does not spoil anything at all.

The Franchise 03-27-2015 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baby Lee (Post 11403873)
It was a Westlaw download that cost, not the printing.

Westlaw is an online court opinion publication service like Lexus/Nexus, that provides certified accurate, formatted court written opinions, and law review articles, and breaks them down by subject, jurisdiction, holding, subsequent citations, etc. Back then, searching was usually free, but downloading for insertion into briefs or printing costs by jurisdiction and length. Nowadays most firms have a blanket monthly license tailored to their needs [ie, state courts where they do business, federal courts, major law reviews, and periodicals in their practice area], but usually still bill out to clients on the assumption/client agreement that longer cases take longer to review.

I just found it kind of odd that she said that it would be like $300-$400. They really couldn't just cover those fees themselves? Or is not to be used for personal use at all?

Baby Lee 03-27-2015 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dicky McElephant (Post 11406064)
I just found it kind of odd that she said that it would be like $300-$400. They really couldn't just cover those fees themselves? Or is not to be used for personal use at all?

Point is, it's going to show up on the Westlaw monthly invoice.

I'm trying to remember back to how the software worked back then, but I believe each search prompted you for a 'client/matter' number and a password unique to the attorney doing the search.

There might have even been a field where you could note the nature of the research being done

There were also 'client/matter' codes for general research or continuing education, but you definitely had to specify why you were using those, because it was both an expense the firm ate and evidence of non-billable time spent at work.

So a line on the Westlaw invoice at the end of the month might look like


100.151 - In re Whatever Case it is This Week
Charles McGill
100 pages - Federal Register, vol. xx , pp yy-zz
$276.86

And that would go directly to the office manager for the firm paying the bills for Charles McGill's password.

DJ's left nut 03-27-2015 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dicky McElephant (Post 11406064)
I just found it kind of odd that she said that it would be like $300-$400. They really couldn't just cover those fees themselves? Or is not to be used for personal use at all?

She had to get the caselaw from Westlaw - in those days, Westlaw charged you through your account per page printed.

So without his own private Westlaw account (which Jimmy wouldn't have had), he had no way to get simple access to those documents, let alone print them off. This pre-dates the ability to just google search and pull up any case you need.

Now, what doesn't make any sense is that he's in Albuquerque. UNM has a law school there and the law library will have a public access westlaw account he could have used and paid per page.

Moreover, they'll have every Southwest Reporter he could have ever wanted in hard copy - he could've just pulled the cases from the hard copy off the shelf and photocopied them. Those reporter sets come with full shepardizers that will link to other related cases as well. He's not that far out of law school; he'll still remember how to do that manually - especially since the books were still in common use back then.

Nothing about what he did made sense there. It was a bit of a deus ex machina from the writers and a little bit lazy, IMO. Jimmy's not dumb - he knew enough about Chuck's partnership agreement to know that he was walking a thin line there.

He'd have just waited a night, gone to the UNM Law Library and gotten all the cases/statutes he was after without risking getting sideways with HHM.

EDIT: Looks like Baby Lee got to some of that already. Still, he had a far better option available to him.

The Franchise 03-27-2015 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 11406223)
She had to get the caselaw from Westlaw - in those days, Westlaw charged you through your account per page printed.

So without his own private Westlaw account (which Jimmy wouldn't have had), he had no way to get simple access to those documents, let alone print them off. This pre-dates the ability to just google search and pull up any case you need.

Now, what doesn't make any sense is that he's in Albuquerque. UNM has a law school there and the law library will have a public access westlaw account he could have used and paid per page.

Moreover, they'll have every Southwest Reporter he could have ever wanted in hard copy - he could've just pulled the cases from the hard copy off the shelf and photocopied them. Those reporter sets come with full shepardizers that will link to other related cases as well. He's not that far out of law school; he'll still remember how to do that manually - especially since the books were still in common use back then.

Nothing about what he did made sense there. It was a bit of a deus ex machina from the writers and a little bit lazy, IMO. Jimmy's not dumb - he knew enough about Chuck's partnership agreement to know that he was walking a thin line there.

He'd have just waited a night, gone to the UNM Law Library and gotten all the cases/statutes he was after without risking getting sideways with HHM.

EDIT: Looks like Baby Lee got to some of that already. Still, he had a far better option available to him.

That was my main problem with it. You would think that all three of them would have known what issues it would raise.

Fire Me Boy! 03-27-2015 11:00 AM

Holy crap, I know some of you know way more about this than the rest, but fer cryin' out loud, use some willing suspension of disbelief. It's a TV show.

'Hamas' Jenkins 03-27-2015 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fire Me Boy! (Post 11406254)
Holy crap, I know some of you know way more about this than the rest, but fer cryin' out loud, use some willing suspension of disbelief. It's a TV show.

I'm not a big fan of suspension of disbelief in a non-fantasy setting, especially when the answers are readily available.

Good example:

Walt is a chemistry wizard, but can't figure out how to synthesize methylamine when it is, literally, a problem in an Organic Chem textbook.

Shit, I can synthesize methylamine.

Baby Lee 03-27-2015 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fire Me Boy! (Post 11406254)
Holy crap, I know some of you know way more about this than the rest, but fer cryin' out loud, use some willing suspension of disbelief. It's a TV show.

It seems pretty clearly set up to be a big plot point, and viewers are already murky on what's going on. So what does a little exposition hurt?

RobBlake 03-27-2015 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baby Lee (Post 11406105)
Point is, it's going to show up on the Westlaw monthly invoice.

I'm trying to remember back to how the software worked back then, but I believe each search prompted you for a 'client/matter' number and a password unique to the attorney doing the search.

There might have even been a field where you could note the nature of the research being done

There were also 'client/matter' codes for general research or continuing education, but you definitely had to specify why you were using those, because it was both an expense the firm ate and evidence of non-billable time spent at work.

So a line on the Westlaw invoice at the end of the month might look like


100.151 - In re Whatever Case it is This Week
Charles McGill
100 pages - Federal Register, vol. xx , pp yy-zz
$276.86

And that would go directly to the office manager for the firm paying the bills for Charles McGill's password.

are/were you a lawyer baby lee?

RobBlake 03-27-2015 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 11406287)
I'm not a big fan of suspension of disbelief in a non-fantasy setting, especially when the answers are readily available.

Good example:

Walt is a chemistry wizard, but can't figure out how to synthesize methylamine when it is, literally, a problem in an Organic Chem textbook.

Shit, I can synthesize methylamine.

i havent seen it for a couple months.. but would synthesizing it degrade the value... i know Walt took pride in the grade of the meth being in the high 90s

'Hamas' Jenkins 03-28-2015 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobBlake (Post 11407372)
i havent seen it for a couple months.. but would synthesizing it degrade the value... i know Walt took pride in the grade of the meth being in the high 90s


The methylamine was just a precursor needed for the manufacture of methamphetamine.

All methylamine has to be synthesized. Pretty much every organic product you come in contact with on a daily basis is synthesized through an industrial process.

Purity, toxicity, and cost are the biggest issues in organic synthesis.

There are a few different processes I know of (I'm sure there are several others) by which you can produce a primary amine, like methylamine: reductive amination and Gabriel Amine Synthesis.

For someone as supposedly gifted as Walt to be unaware of how to perform reductive amination in a controlled environment (he didn't need to worry about it with Gus, but he did elsewhere) was conflict for the sake of conflict in the plot.

Mojo Rising 03-28-2015 01:08 AM

The preview showed Jimmy's Girlfriend Kim go into Hamlins office. We know she wants to make partner so somehow she back stabs Jimmy and the fees end up with Hamlin and she ends up a Partner. My guess is that she testifies that Chuck is incompetent in court based on the hospital visit so that Harry can take the case. Harry settles so it doesn't go to court for a fat fee.

This either drives Chuck to death or the looney bin, ends Jimmy's relationship with Kim and turns Jimmy into Saul.

Somewhere along the line he will change his business plan from playing bingo to placing adds at bus stops that say Better Call Saul.

I don't like the prequel in that we know the ending. I will sit through the worse shows just to see how the writer ends the story.

Jamie 03-28-2015 04:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mojo Rising (Post 11407479)
I don't like the prequel in that we know the ending. I will sit through the worse shows just to see how the writer ends the story.

I think the show will end in the post-Breaking Bad time frame. Just a hunch, not based on anything.

mdchiefsfan 03-28-2015 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by penguinz (Post 11405907)
Spoiler what? It is a theory on what he thinks will happen.

It does not spoil anything at all.

I guess the smiley didn't indicate my intentions. Let me elaborate:

It seemed to make so much sense, that I joking stated a spoiler was required.

Apologies.

RobBlake 03-28-2015 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 11407460)
The methylamine was just a precursor needed for the manufacture of methamphetamine.

All methylamine has to be synthesized. Pretty much every organic product you come in contact with on a daily basis is synthesized through an industrial process.

Purity, toxicity, and cost are the biggest issues in organic synthesis.

There are a few different processes I know of (I'm sure there are several others) by which you can produce a primary amine, like methylamine: reductive amination and Gabriel Amine Synthesis.

For someone as supposedly gifted as Walt to be unaware of how to perform reductive amination in a controlled environment (he didn't need to worry about it with Gus, but he did elsewhere) was conflict for the sake of conflict in the plot.

Thanks for the short lesson.. very helpful

Chiefspants 03-28-2015 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 11407460)
The methylamine was just a precursor needed for the manufacture of methamphetamine.

All methylamine has to be synthesized. Pretty much every organic product you come in contact with on a daily basis is synthesized through an industrial process.

Purity, toxicity, and cost are the biggest issues in organic synthesis.

There are a few different processes I know of (I'm sure there are several others) by which you can produce a primary amine, like methylamine: reductive amination and Gabriel Amine Synthesis.

For someone as supposedly gifted as Walt to be unaware of how to perform reductive amination in a controlled environment (he didn't need to worry about it with Gus, but he did elsewhere) was conflict for the sake of conflict in the plot.

I was always under the impression that it would have been cost prohibitive for Walt and Jesse to synthesize their own methylamine (if memory serves I read an article about this issue a while ago).

Jesse and Walt would have either had to have stolen the chemicals required to synthesize methylamine, or found a way to purchase the industrial quantities of said chemicals without attracting unwelcome attention. In addition, this would have added a step in their overall responsibilities, and there would have been the risk that the quality of the methylamine would not have been up to the standard to the product they received from Lydia or the tanker.

At least to me, it seemed like the long term solution was finding a way to have pre-made methylamine on hand, rather than adding a costly and somewhat risky step to their overall process.

'Hamas' Jenkins 03-28-2015 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefspants (Post 11408322)
I was always under the impression that it would have been cost prohibitive for Walt and Jesse to synthesize their own methylamine (if memory serves I read an article about this issue a while ago).

Jesse and Walt would have either had to have stolen the chemicals required to synthesize methylamine, or found a way to purchase the industrial quantities of said chemicals without attracting unwelcome attention. In addition, this would have added a step in their overall responsibilities, and there would have been the risk that the quality of the methylamine would not have been up to the standard to the product they received from Lydia or the tanker.

At least to me, it seemed like the long term solution was finding a way to have pre-made methylamine on hand, rather than adding a costly and somewhat risky step to their overall process.

Methylamine is a Schedule 1 precursor, which means that it is extremely difficult to buy outright, and its purchases are monitored and tracked. However, the chemicals needed to synthesize methylamine are readily available for purchase and not traced by the DEA or other agencies.

Purchasing the precursor chemicals in smaller amounts would have neither raised any red flags, led to future shortages, or necessitated a great train robbery.

Chiefspants 03-28-2015 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 11408490)
Methylamine is a Schedule 1 precursor, which means that it is extremely difficult to buy outright, and its purchases are monitored and tracked. However, the chemicals needed to synthesize methylamine are readily available for purchase and not traced by the DEA or other agencies.

From my (very limited) knowledge of chemicals, I thought that ANY chemical purchased at the level required to run a worldwide meth empire would have quickly attracted scrutiny from the federal government.

'Hamas' Jenkins 03-28-2015 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefspants (Post 11408502)
From my (very limited) knowledge of chemicals, I thought that ANY chemical purchased at the level required to run a worldwide meth empire would have quickly attracted scrutiny from the federal government.

They stole a total of 1000 gallons of methylamine.

Ammonia in a methanol solvent is what you would need (at least, it'd be the easiest). Both chemicals are available.

Also, if we watch the show, we're supposed to believe that methylamine is tough to come by, but that Walt has no problem procuring phenylacetone for his P2P cook. However, phenylacetone is also a controlled precursor.

So, either Walt is able to procure one Schedule I precursor but not another, or he can synthesize phenylacetone, but not methylamine.

Honestly, they probably did it so the show wasn't a how-to on meth-manufacture and for dramatic license.

Chiefspants 03-28-2015 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 11408526)
Honestly, they probably did it so the show wasn't a how-to on meth-manufacture and for dramatic license.

Gilligan has admitted to this in several interviews. I was not even aware about the existence of phenylacetone, so it does seem like at least some of the drama around methylamine was used for dramatic effect.

Though, from the article I read (still looking for it), the problems Walt had obtaining methylamine wasn't plot bending enough to warrant too much criticism toward the writers.

Zebedee DuBois 03-28-2015 09:57 PM

Your points about BB making some ingredients hard to come by and others not mentioned - I have no argument at all - you are correct that they do not ring true.
But all Nitrogen bearing compounds are tracked to some extent by the govt. The simplest, ammonia, can be used by the Walts or the Timothy McVeys. While readily available, they don't just sell it in bulk to anyone.

mr. tegu 03-28-2015 10:48 PM

It seems pretty clear to me that HHM is going to join in on the case because of Chuck not being allowed to do big cases without them. This will obviously cause resentment from Saul and possibly conflict with the lady friend (name?) but I don't think this will lead to any big epiphany for Saul to become Saul.

If anything maybe HHM uses this as an excuse to get rid of Chuck and that makes Saul start to dip his toes in the muddy end.

Mojo Rising 03-29-2015 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamie (Post 11407509)
I think the show will end in the post-Breaking Bad time frame. Just a hunch, not based on anything.

I hope that you are right. It seems like we know the ending and we are just trying to fill in the blanks.

Gilligan does a great job so I expect a great show however it ends, or begins.

DaneMcCloud 03-29-2015 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefspants (Post 11408543)
Gilligan has admitted to this in several interviews. I was not even aware about the existence of phenylacetone, so it does seem like at least some of the drama around methylamine was used for dramatic effect.

Though, from the article I read (still looking for it), the problems Walt had obtaining methylamine wasn't plot bending enough to warrant too much criticism toward the writers.

The methylamime was the McGuffin of BB.

mdchiefsfan 03-29-2015 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mojo Rising (Post 11408796)
I hope that you are right. It seems like we know the ending and we are just trying to fill in the blanks.

Gilligan does a great job so I expect a great show however it ends, or begins.

Given the fact that the pilot showed Saul hiding out and owning his own Cinnabon, I think it's safe to say they established where the series would end.

Not being a dick, just stating the facts.

Jamie 03-29-2015 03:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mdchiefsfan (Post 11408808)
Given the fact that the pilot showed Saul hiding out and owning his own Cinnabon, I think it's safe to say they established where the series would end.

Not being a dick, just stating the facts.

I think something will come up that draws him back to Albuquerque in the post-Breaking Bad time frame. Like something he does over the course of this series comes back to haunt him, and he has to go back to deal with it.

I mean, it'd be pretty anticlimactic if the end of the show was like "then Breaking Bad happened, and Saul spent the rest of his life managing a Cinnabon. The End."

mdchiefsfan 03-29-2015 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamie (Post 11408831)
I think something will come up that draws him back to Albuquerque in the post-Breaking Bad time frame. Like something he does over the course of this series comes back to haunt him, and he has to go back to deal with it.

I mean, it'd be pretty anticlimactic if the end of the show was like "then Breaking Bad happened, and Saul spent the rest of his life managing a Cinnabon. The End."

Agreed, but we know it will at least go that far.

notorious 03-29-2015 08:49 AM

Breaking Bad showed future scenes at the beginning of season and filled in the blanks as the show went on often.

Stuffed animal scene, skateboard scene in the pool, etc.

It creates a lot of mystery.


The Cinnabon scene is similar.

Chiefspants 03-29-2015 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamie (Post 11408831)
I think something will come up that draws him back to Albuquerque in the post-Breaking Bad time frame. Like something he does over the course of this series comes back to haunt him, and he has to go back to deal with it.

I mean, it'd be pretty anticlimactic if the end of the show was like "then Breaking Bad happened, and Saul spent the rest of his life managing a Cinnabon. The End."

I would actually prefer if something drew him to Chicago or elsewhere to avoid the similarities with Walt's arc back to ABQ in BB's finale.

mikeyis4dcats. 03-30-2015 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 11406223)
She had to get the caselaw from Westlaw - in those days, Westlaw charged you through your account per page printed.

So without his own private Westlaw account (which Jimmy wouldn't have had), he had no way to get simple access to those documents, let alone print them off. This pre-dates the ability to just google search and pull up any case you need.

Now, what doesn't make any sense is that he's in Albuquerque. UNM has a law school there and the law library will have a public access westlaw account he could have used and paid per page.

Moreover, they'll have every Southwest Reporter he could have ever wanted in hard copy - he could've just pulled the cases from the hard copy off the shelf and photocopied them. Those reporter sets come with full shepardizers that will link to other related cases as well. He's not that far out of law school; he'll still remember how to do that manually - especially since the books were still in common use back then.

Nothing about what he did made sense there. It was a bit of a deus ex machina from the writers and a little bit lazy, IMO. Jimmy's not dumb - he knew enough about Chuck's partnership agreement to know that he was walking a thin line there.

He'd have just waited a night, gone to the UNM Law Library and gotten all the cases/statutes he was after without risking getting sideways with HHM.

EDIT: Looks like Baby Lee got to some of that already. Still, he had a far better option available to him.

well, not totally. He managed to divide efforts by making Kim his paralegal while he and Chuck worked on other things.

mr. tegu 03-30-2015 09:40 PM

Great episode.

'Hamas' Jenkins 03-30-2015 10:05 PM

1) TREVOR MOTHER****IN' PHILLIPS.

Greatest. Cameo. Ever.

2) What a shit-sucking scumbag of a **** Chuck turned out to be. He certainly spoons well with Howard. And to be too big of a coward to tell Jimmy, making Howard play the heavy...gat damn.

Here's the thing: in the end Jimmy may have turned back into Slippin' Jimmy, but I don't think it's due to his nature. Rather, he's like an abused child or spouse, who, because they've always been told they're shit and will never amount to anything, make choices that reinforce their own lowly self-worth.

What a bastardicious shit****. Jimmy should rent out enough generators to power Woodstock and surround Chuck's house with Van De Graaf machines

mr. tegu 03-30-2015 10:08 PM

I loved how they kept teasing us in Mike's scenes by starting out with the characters approaching with views of their feet. I kept getting excited and nervous that it was Gus coming.

Pasta Little Brioni 03-30-2015 10:53 PM

Outstanding turning Chuck heel. Hamlin portrayed as the Big bad asshole then BAM the reveal of Chuck holding those cards. Very well done.

'Hamas' Jenkins 03-30-2015 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pasta Giant Meatball (Post 11411505)
Outstanding turning Chuck heel. Hamlin portrayed as the Big bad asshole then BAM the reveal of Chuck holding those cards. Very well done.

PGM, the first thing you gotta do, is tell these posters to shut up if you wanna hear what Chuck McGill has gotta say.

You can call this the H-H-M.

Everyone was wondering who the other partner was? Well, who knows more about that organization than me, brother?… Let me tell you something. I made that law firm a monster. I made people rich up there. I made the people that ran that firm rich up there. And when it all came to pass, the name Chuck McGill, the man Chuck McGill, got bigger than the whole law firm.

If it wasn't for Chuck McGill, Howard Hamlin would be selling meat out of a truck in Minneapolis.

If it wasn't for Chuck McGill, slippin' Jimmy would be doing 3-5 upstate in Illinois.

I was litigating class action lawsuits when they were pumping gas into their cars to get to high school.

So the way it is now, brother, with Chuck McGill and Hamlin Hamlin McGill, me and the new blood by my side, whatcha gonna do when HHM runs wild on you?

Pasta Little Brioni 03-30-2015 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 11411514)
PGM, the first thing you gotta do, is tell these posters to shut up if you wanna hear what Chuck McGill has gotta say.

You can call this the H-H-M.

Everyone was wondering who the other partner was? Well, who knows more about that organization than me, brother?… Let me tell you something. I made that law firm a monster. I made people rich up there. I made the people that ran that firm rich up there. And when it all came to pass, the name Chuck McGill, the man Chuck McGill, got bigger than the whole law firm.

If it wasn't for Chuck McGill, Howard Hamlin would be selling meat out of a truck in Minneapolis.

If it wasn't for Chuck McGill, slippin' Jimmy would be doing 3-5 upstate in Illinois.

I was litigating class action lawsuits when they were pumping gas into their cars to get to high school.

So the way it is now, brother, with Chuck McGill and Hamlin Hamlin McGill, me and the new blood by my side, whatcha gonna do when HHM runs wild on you?

ROFL A mark is each and every one of you Slippin Jimmy lovin sumbitches


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