Yeah if those things happen he will deserve the hate.

yes, i do. and the proof is in the pudding. kraft is a ****ing football genius compared to clark.

2003 we were the #2 seed.

I agree.. But he did know enough about football to give the man who is football guy the final say in personnel decisions. It can be risky, but even if not in front of the camera, he stayed close enough to the two (BB and SP) to make sure shit-for-brains SP didn't F-up the club like he has KC. I'm sure when SP got to KC he made sure CHunt gave him the final say.. And Chunt never dug deep enough to figure out just how important SP not having the final say was... I'm no big fan of Haley, but I'd love for him to spill his guts TOTALLY in the near future... I know it won't happen, but it would be a great read.

At a minimum CHunt is certainly left wondering WTF he let happen! Kraft just laughs and says, "stick around kid, you have a lot to learn about the game, and you just got gamed..." Maybe not...

I see the results being because he is a smart owner that got his HC/GM hire right. I don't think its about his actual knowledge of football. Oh, and Tom Brady.

That is the one grey area I think is justifiable with getting on Clark about. Him not knowing anything about Arrowhead Anxiety ect. I still think Clark deserves this off season before we panic but I would have liked him to be hovering around Pioli just a little bit more.

That being said, if you are going to credit Kraft for being smart enough to let BB do his thing, Clark did the same with Pioli. Just happens that BB isn't the idiot that Pioli is. Oh, and Tom Brady.

nobody is hating on rich kids. clark hasn't done well. in fact, he's really pissed a lot of fans off. so, there's that.

And I was in section 124, row 19 that day when we got sent home after watching PM audible the Colts to a win in what I think was about the loudest I've ever heard Arrowhead!!!... And only the clock stopped PM, at the half, from scoring drives.... And Dick cried days later when Greg was axed, that was touching!! JFC, don't remind me!

A guy in this thread certainly was doing that. Chiefsforlife58 or whatever.

and so, what? kraft is "lucky" ???? well then, clark is unlucky.

I think kraft worked his ass off to become the owner of the pats -- he worked for that.

clark? no. he has failed as an NFL owner also. so, there's that.

Pioli has actually pissed off the fans
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Kraft has worked, for sure. He has gotten lucky but you kinda need to be win in sports.

can you tell me how robt kraft was able to afford to buy and operate the new england patriots? where did kraft get his $$$$???

Good points, but he didn't need to wait this long to say things aren't going to stay the way they are. He's got an office and Pioli's not in a position, and hasn't been since year-2, to argue against some changes. He could have called SP and TH into his office and told SP that he's heard a lot of shit, and rumors notwithstanding, events like the gum wrapper and blinds and other such crap has lead him to think that the balance of power is officially changing. He may not tell them that TH was getting final say, but he sure could have said that he'd be the final decision maker (and he'd confer with TH just prior to announcing his final decision). Hindsight is 20/20, but living in Dallas sure made seeing all of this a LOT harder.

Had he tried that, what would SP had been able to do, go to the union?

How do you know what he ****ing hasdone behind closed doors?
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The Patriots didn't win a title for the first 8 years of Kraft's ownership of the team.

Kraft had nothing to do with Brady. Nor did Belichick or Pioli.

The guy who got the Pats Tom Brady was Dick Rehbein, their QBs coach, who gave Brady glowing reviews.

When Clark took over, he wanted to totally change the culture, which was probably needed, but not to the extent that happened.

The culture that was going down, obviously wasn't working so Clark made a change, wholesale changes to the franchise from the top down.

He could have stayed status quo and lined his pockets. But he didn't.

and so, what? you are here to say clark is not responsible for this?

pioli wasn't here the last time a GM "pissed off the fans" but hey, there was a clark in the mix.

how many more staff changes will it take before you get pissed at the ownership?

I've already reached my threshold. clark is a crap owner in my book. he threw away the QB position with Matty C and in turn wasted years, he threw away the catalyst of positive change when he fired Haley and he is on board with the crapfest that is Scott Pioli, who is the engineer of this train wreck.

Well, setting aside the fact that team went from the cellar to a playoff team that made a SB appearance, plus the fact he did actually win all those championships, what is your point? That I should hold off on clark until year eight?

well, don't you wish clark had a "Dick Rehbein" on the staff. That is my point. Clark has made some choices here, it is certainly debatable whether those choices are good, but his record and your disappointment for this team are not debatable. All I'm saying is, clark is no robt kraft. he's not even lamar. hell, the hunt fam became rich from a guy named HL Hunt folks. clark's grand dad.

My point, you dipshit, is that you dumbasses keep pointing to Kraft as the standard.

He didn't find immediate success.

It took time, and the luck of stumbling onto an elite QB.

be honest for once -- do you think clark hunt can put a NFL winner together? ever? How long would you give him?

I am not using kraft as the standard, just one example. hell, this started with the whole JJ comparison.

F***************** 1.6 five year plans later!!!!!

the GM puts the team together. Not the owner
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I am not arguing for or against Hunt here.

I don't have enough information to draw any conclusions, or to make any assumptions.

What am arguing is the stupidity displayed by those that have argued that he's a bad owner.

why is it so stupid? piholi has burned damn near every bridge in town. no shit now. he's literally pissed everyone off and their is nothing good said of him during daily reports.

yet, clark has his back. had his back during all the pissing contests, has been accused of being just as meddling and micro scrutinizing as piholi.

I think it is justified. clark is a bad owner. he's more and more like mike brown imo.

Link for that?

. You are a ****ing idiot. When has Clark been accused of that?
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what, exactly? this has been covered years ago. the parking attendants shut out of games, firemen invited for halftime entertainment and then scurried out afterwards, if they did not buy a ticket. there was a quote that clark wants his workers working scared... a ton of stuff.

Clark Hunt was accused of being an absentee owner that didn't care in 2008.

He comes from the family who has owned this team since it was moved to KC, he's not exactly been devoid of knowing the inner-workings of the franchise since long before his dad died. I think it's a bit short-sighed to say he was a Chiefs virgin before his dad's death.

I think our quick judgment of him being a bad owner is that he comes from a money grubbing family, and other than some large and visible changes he made at first (and I agreed with the SP hiring when it was made), his lack of prompt action seems to indicate that he's more of the same. I'm not sure SP uses the term f-year plan (It might be copyrighted!!), but CHunt's failure is seemingly letting things ride. Who knows, when the clock reads 0:00 at the end of game 16, he might tell security to help SP fill his one box of personal items from his former office. I would like that, but I'm not holding out hope, after all he is Lamar's son...

The Hunts desperately want this franchise to be run like the Steelers.

It's an image thing when it comes to firing people, especially the GM, midseason. It's just not going to happen.

I think it will happen at seasons end, but not during the season.

But he isn't willing to put in the work on a daily basis.

Until he does, or sells the team to a new owner, this will always be in question.

my opinion is that clark will not fire pioli & RC will remain HC. he isn't going to tell you this. to me, that is bad. he is holding onto the fact most chiefs fans today can't tell the diff between matt cassel & matt stafford, plus there is a ton of corporate season ticket sales, so he is just gonna fade back to texas and you and I are going to be left staring a piholi & romeo. you watch.

Probably true.


Although, I will say from some of the things I've heard, this season, coupled with last season has changed his view a little bit on how he wants be around etc.


One good thing that could come from the previous events I guess.

Do you think ANY of the roster moves made by the Patriots are aided by the fact that Kraft was a ticket holder? You claimed that Kraft's football knowledge aids him to be a better owner. It doesn't. His running the team the right way does. Running it the right way includes letting someone else make ALL the personnel decisions.

And you can't even say he knew this was coming because if he did they wouldn't have waited until the 6th round to take him.

;)

Considering Clark was "acting" as the de facto owner for a few years BEFORE Lamar died, I'd say you are 100% correct.

look, I have no idea what you think you are illuminating with this. My points are simple; kraft is a self made man and so is JJ whereas Clarky boy is not.

As for kraft and drafts etc, he had parcells in there during the nineties and a GM that was a bit stubborn, hence the famous parcells quote "if you want me to cook the meal, you ought to let me pick the groceries" and parcells left that team flush with talent. he made another key hire in BB and we all know what happened there.

Clark has been around this team since birth. he was slow firing CP, now he's backing a GM that fired this team's best coach since Clark took over and do I have to go into the fact FA & coaching candidates are steering clear of KC & piholi? That is Clark's legacy so far. It's bad business, bad football.

And, he's about to let it go another season.

You think he's about to let it go another season.

yes, I do.

That wasn't a question.

Just FYI, here's some highlights of Robert Kraft's resume pre Tom Brady:

1) Takes over the Patriots during Parcells' tenure.
2) Parcells took the Pats from the #1 pick to a Super Bowl appearance. Kraft runs him off.
3) Parcells' impending departure becomes a major distraction during that Super Bowl. The Pats lose.
4) Parcells not only leaves, he goes to a division rival.
5) The Pats start getting worse every year after Parcells' departure.
6) Doesn't pay future HOFer Curtis Martin, allows him to go to a division rival in his prime.
7) Flirts with moving the Pats to the thriving NFL hotbed of Connecticut.
8) Trades a first-round pick to a division rival.
9) Trades that pick for Belichick, a move about as popular back then as someone trading a first-round pick for Norv Turner would be today.
10) Team wins 5 games, putting them back in the same basement they were in before Kraft took over.

Now I'm not for sure, but up until the Patriots lucked into the best draft pick in NFL history, I don't think too many of their fans were pumping their fists about ol' self made Robert Kraft and his grand football IQ.

I read this elsewhere than on the planet and have heard a lot of people talk about it. It would be fun to have seen the conversation

Well, not really quite true -- Parcells became HC in 1993. He coached the team only one season previous to Kraft's buyout. Parcells remained HC under Kraft for 3 of his four seasons as HC of the Patriots. They did not get along though, so we agree there.

Kraft made Pete Carroll the next HC and that was another fail.

But it turns out they were all the right moves. And, again I think kraft has better football sense than clark does, which is kind of whacked considering clark's upbringing.

I think you guys are trying too hard to tell me kraft made plenty of mistakes -- I am aware and my point is that he has the experience previous to his NFL ownership and that is a big big diff between the two men.

Enough about Kraft.

Tell me why Clark Hunt is going to enjoy any success as an NFL owner?

Give me some accomplishments that haven't been obvious. Because the obvious accomplishments aren't much of an offset to the failure Clark has fielded season after season.

Excellent Work

You said Kraft was better because of his "football IQ". I said it has nothing to do with his football IQ but rather how he lets others run the "football IQ" stuff and just helps the team in other ways. You go on to argue that Kraft does stuff outside of personnel better then Clark. Something I never disagreed with, and was in fact pointing out. I was disagreeing with something you said and you went on to defend a point that I never disagreed with. Either you don't know what football IQ really means or you don't remember that you said it.

well, you can have your opine that clarky boy is a more football intel dude than kraft is. I don't think it's even close, myself.

Time will tell. We can only wait.

When did I say that? I never implied Clark has more football IQ. All I said was the football IQ doesn't matter. You listed all the reasons that Kraft has a good franchise and its not because he understands football more. He has just done things better and gotten lucky with his QB and hired the right HC/GM. Clark tried to hire the right GM and it failed.

This all started with Chiefsforlife58 saying Clark couldn't be a good owner because football isn't his first love. I am not saying Clark knows more about football, I am just arguing that its the not the reason an owner does well. Kraft has done things right but none of them have to do with the x's and o's or personnel side. You have listed a lot of things Kraft has done right and I don't disagree. This was all about Chiefsforlife58's comment and yours saying Kraft's football IQ meant something. What Kraft has done right is staying out of the football side of things.

If Clark is doomed it has nothing to do with his knowledge of the sport and everything to do with what he wants out of this franchise.