No I haven't. I'm not a big blues lover but I like some stuff. Haven't delved deeply into the genre because I've heard a lot of stuff I don't care for. I'll check them out though.

So is Driving Wheel a band? It's always struck me as a band name and a good one.

Like I said, I was 12.

Speaking of Ainsley Dunbar...obligatory Frank Zappa reference!

They said he could DANCE, and, of course, THEY were right! Ladies and Gentlemen, this is it: THE STUDEBAKER HAWK DANCING LESSON & COSMIC PRAYER FOR GUIDANCE featuring Ainsley Dunbar, hit it!

WTF happened with them? I loved their sound. Just crazy shit that kept them from keeping it together enough to make music?

Without providing any real details, this is it in a nutshell.

Too many drugs, too much money, too much fighting between the brothers, so on and so forth.

I was really excited when "Holy Diver" came out and thought it was decent but "Last in Line" wasn't as good. To me, there is something missing in Dio's solo work that is there in Rainbow and Black Sabbath. I should probably mention that I kind of fell away from metal about the time "Last in Line" came out and only recently heard any of the later Dio stuff (including "Dehumanizer" and "The Devil You Know") when my son started buying it a couple of years ago.

I have "Mob Rules" rated pretty high because that was the album they were supporting when I saw Black Sabbath. I think "Heaven and Hell" may be the perfect metal album, though.

What's "missing" is Ritchie Blackmore and Tony Iommi.

Vivian Campbell has never been a good songwriter. He doesn't write cool riffs and he's nothing more than a mediocre Gary Moore clone (before Gary went Blues in the 90's).

He plays in cover bands around Hollywood and he's basically a cover band guy in Def Leppard. He occasionally plays with the reformed Thin Lizzy, which is a complete joke since Phil WAS Thin Lizzy and he's in a new Dio "Tribute" band, now that Dio's dead.

He's a waste of oxygen, IMO.

#1 Anthony Shriek
#2 High heel & the sneakers
#3 Orgasm
#4 Stiff
#5 S.M.D.

I remember one of them got married in the late 90's/early 2000's (I think that's when it was) and the wife was all over the grocery store magazine racks - in stuff like BH&G and Good Housekeeping.

Not a big fan of the little, squashed compression sound. It's lifeless; even in the hands of the best players, it really seems sterile. Part of the way an instrument sounds is dependent on the room it's played in. Take away the room, and it takes away from the overall sound and ambiance.

Like, to me, Hysteria wouldn't sound as dated if they had broken out the Marshalls and cranked it up. Of course, that's not Mutt Lange's style - the only band he did that with was AC/DC (no accident that those are the Best records of his career).

That's why I don't like Foreigner - I LOVE Mick Jones and Ian McDonald; can't stand the records, the sterility of them. rock and roll is an inherently imperfect art form - it should never BE perfect; that 'perfection' washes away the very mojo that makes it beautiful, ya know?? It's like, we got away from that BS in the 90's and now it's cycled back, only now everything is through cakewalk/protools plugins and bands 'run tracks' live.

So you KNOW what I'm talking about, and WHY I don't like that music. I'm not being a dick; it's a tanglible thing. All those songs are ran through the same box, and plugged right into the board. That's why they literally all sound the same, exactly.

Amplifiers hum, that's how rock and roll sounds when you turn it up, ya know?? and the same amp with the same guitar on the same settings in the same room will sound different from day-to-day, just because the air is different, and then any recording you make will be different...it results in a different snapshot of that day.

Chris was married to Kate Hudson for a few years but that's been over for a long time. She's moved on to another rock star.

exactly.

:LOL:

Precisely.

That's the most common criticism, yes.

Yeah, he's making money off of it now. It was "trash" before but now it's worth doing again. :hmmm:

Nope, it was the other one.

Yeah, gonna be at Mike Kelly's Westsider on Dec 07. we're on reverbnation. www.reverbnation.com/drivingwheel we're ok, trying to get better...making our first real record, and it's been...an experience.

You can also stream or download live shows on archive.org (we're an 'open-taping' band)

There are shittier bands that make more money, but we're still capable of ****ing up all the big gigs, and usually do. Somehow, no one pretends to know the difference...

Rich was married to Emma. She was WAY hotter than Kate.

That's been over for awhile too.

So, nothing significant on the events specifically related to Marc and Ed leaving in Aug-Sept '06?

Viv Campbell has to be the luckiest hack on the history of the planet - he takes Noel Redding, because you KNOW the DL gig has a decent paycheckZ

Well, now that you ask ...

You have any extra insights into the infamous "Union" album by Yes? Where Jonathan Elias used session musicians (such as Jimmy Haun) for many of Steve Howe's and Rick Wakeman's parts -- without telling them? (They didn't know until they heard the album that they had been replaced.) At least part of that was recorded in L.A.

If you've got any stories of that, or Jonathan Elias in general ...

At the time, the Rockman was revolutionary. People could play guitar without an amp, whether it was plugging into a live console, an SSL or a pair of headphones. The sound of the Rockman inspired musicians, composers and producers to create music that had previously not existed.

And Hysteria is one of the most respected albums ever made to this day. Its sound is extremely unique. The production values are amazing. While that sound isn't for every artist and every band, it works for those songs and that band.

That's all that matters.

That's really not true. An overwhelming number of albums have been recorded with amps recorded in amp closets or surrounded by Gobo's to deaden the room sound. In the 70's, guys taped terry cloth towels to their drum heads to deaden them, an enormous number of bass guitar tracks were recorded direct into the console and not through an amp and guitars have been recorded direct forever.

Listen to most 70's rock records and you're hearing damped drums, DI'd bass and guitar amps covered with Gobo's and in some cases, blankets.

It's not "dated" at all. It was innovative. If he had recorded Hysteria with Marshalls, live drums, etc. instead of Rockman's, Linn and Oberheim drum machines while recording each vocal take into a Synclavier, I seriously doubt that the record would have long standing impact today.

I disagree. That's like saying that orchestral musicians should not play their instruments perfectly, that it somehow takes away from the music or the art to use world class musicians for film scores and orchestral and chamber music.

There's a difference between a "raw" performance and imperfection. Imperfection occurs when the players aren't top notch or world class. I can guarantee you that you're not walking into a session, whether it be a 70's police show or The Family Guy if you're not a world class musician that's incapable of making mistakes.

Capturing the rawness of a band is completely different, although that was as rare in 50's, 60's, 70's and 80's as it is today.


At the end of the day, the job is to entertain the audience. That's all that matters.


You don't have to like it. But you should appreciate the effort and appreciate the beauty of what they accomplished as a band and what Mutt Lange accomplished as a producer.

Much like what Terry Manning achieved with Eliminator, it's a very unique sound and unique record.

Well, I have to disagree with this. If you have properly maintained guitars and amps, there shouldn't be any variance in recorded sound from day to day. That's the job of the amp and guitar tech and if it doesn't happen, they're fired.

If you want different sounds every day, have 20 or more guitars, basses, amps and drums on hand.

Dude, I can't share intimate details in a public forum. That's just not cool.

I don't really have any stories about that period. The only person associated with Yes that I know/knew, was Trevor Horn, and that was about a decade ago.

All I can say about him is "Weird dude".

Sorry, man!

Was waiting for Dane to show up.

I am interested in his takes...

Yeah, like I said it was in the late 1990's, IIRC.

That's OK!

Weird how? Too-weird-for-a-public-forum weird?

Eh, I might be able to shed some light or background on some artists, recordings, etc. but I'm not going to bash anyone's musical taste.

Music connects with the listener on a very deep level, something that goes beyond description. If Ratt or MC5's or Eric B. & Rakim is what makes you happy, that's great! It's not for me to judge anyone's musical taste and interest.

Nah, just like ****ing eccentric. Weird little miniature dog lover stuff. Almost like a caricature of a British dude.

Not surprising.

:thumb:

1. Beatles
2. Led Zeppelin
3. Pink Floyd
4. Grand Funk Railroad
5. Steppenwolf

No particular order -

The Rolling Stones
ZZ Top
CCR
The Eagles
Stevie Ray Vaughn

I guess. Kind of hard to do a top 5 on this subject.

ROFL

Since there are a lot of Beatles fans here, I have a question:

If you could only have four of their albums, which would you choose?

Hey! Ratt speaks to my soul.

I know...they were pretty hot.

Aerosmith's Done With Mirrors is an example of a great album 'Ruined By Rockman'

Sure - and the Rick Allen situation lent itself even further to that recording method and it contributed to that record's overall sound and ambiance, which is way different from the first two, or even the one Mutt did before.

Not dogging it - I just prefer the sound and the playing of the first three albums over Hysteria or anything after. I know Phil Collen is a great guitarist, but without a whole bunch of Steve Clark, the thing falls flat to me. Maybe it's no coincidence that I think the best song on Hysteria is 'Armageddon It.'

maybe, indeed...



Hey, I dig that - everyone did what needed to be done to get it done. That resulted in a lot of different sounds, awesome records.

Take Fleetwood Mac for instance - I love Rumours, Tusk, Mirage, etc. And those records are overdub city.

We're making a record right now, and I have 3 or 4 bass signals at a time and one of them is a direct through a preamp in case we wind up using a plug-in during the mixing stage...I'm just trying NOT to.

well, they couldn't use live drums, not completely. And yes, agreed, though Hysteria was probably a bad example to use.

A better one would be 'Dirty White Boy' by Foreigner - LOVE the song. Could have a ballsier guitar. The sheen washes away the ballsiness. I guess that's why I always dig the Stones; even on their poppiest dance numbers, ballads, whatever - guitar is loud and clear, front and center.

Well, you can't suck. That's a given...

But it seems that no one is interested in capturing the 'rawness' of a band anymore. It's disheartening.


I love Eliminator. I can appreciate what Mutt has done...but I hear the symmetry of the 'Mutt Lange Sound' through every artist he's worked with (including Shania) sans AC/DC. And to me, a producer needs to bring out what their artists sound like (Brenden O'Brien) and not impart their sound on their artist (Caveman Shirley).

It will sound slightly different every time no matter what. A lot of ears can't even tell the difference from day to day, but it's there. It's a natural byproduct of analog gear and acoustical physics.

The producer knows and can hear...that's a big reasons why even rock producers went to Rockmans and triggered drums...and why they do plug-ins and triggered drums now. Control, absolute control.

We got that covered, too.

To be honest, I kinda like the MC5. :huh:

Led Zeppelin
Rush
Stones
Pink Floyd
Aerosmith

Wasn't asking for details...just wondered if you knew anything.

Shit. yes.

Just my personal:

1. Abbey Road
2. Revolver
3. Rubber Soul
4. Sgt. Pepper

Revolver
Rubber Soul
White Album
Abbey Road

not bad...White Album gets the nod over Pepper by about 35 minutes or so :thumb:

Thanks. I just picked up Revolver and Abbey Road. I figured Sgt Pepper was a given so was trying to decide past that (Rubber Soul or White Album or ?).

Rubber Soul
Abbey Road
White Album
Sgt. Pepper's

I went back and forth on that. Hated to leave White Album off. Make it a list of 5 and no problem.

The Rockman/Boston/Def Leppard discussion is interesting because I'm facing this conundrum right now.

I have a nice tube amp and it sounds screaming great - turned all the way up to 11. On 1/4 volume, it doesn't sound AT ALL like I need it to sound.

I'm working on my album in my bedroom, on a home PC, and I really have no choice - I HAVE to use an amp simulator to get anywhere close to the sound I want because other people live here and I have to be mindful of their ****ing ears. :D

And personally, I hate that approach.

Get a great bass tone from the amp, cabinet, microphone, instrument, strings, pick/fingers and record.

Make a decision and go with it. Having options doesn't make the music any better and it generally tends to **** things up come mixing time.

No, not really. Not at all, actually.

The Rockman was a new creative tool and it sounded unlike any other guitar amp or guitar recording chain. Same with drum machines. There was an isolation that had never existed before and new sound.


Again, that's not true at all.

Drum samples came into play for various reasons. A guy like CLA uses them because it defines his sound. Bob Clearmountain used them and shared his library with others because it defined his sound.

Producers don't generally use drum samples unless they ****ed something up while tracking and that usually isn't the case. Mixers like to supplement recorded drums with samples to fit their vision, although it's not unlikely that the drums are replaced in their entirety.


I just don't agree, whatsoever. If you're using high end gear like Neve, SSL, API, Drawmer, Empirical Labs, Vintech, etc. and so on and the gear is properly maintained in a clean, temperature controlled room, there is absolutely no reason why anything should sound different from day to day.

Really hard to nail it down to only 5. And I can't include my own band...heh.

Alice Cooper
Iron Maiden
Metallica
Queen
Creedence

But it's not by far a complete list...

Totally with you on this - I'm just running extra tracks to appease everyone else.

Come mixing time...we're using my stereo-miked cabs. Already a done deal.

Just never was a fan. Compressed and sterile, to my ears.

They do that nowadays, in the 'modern rock' world. Not drum samples, but triggers on the actual drums, so that it's actually someone playing, for a 'live band' feel, but digitally triggered.

Think any Nickleback, Disturbed, or Saliva record you've ever heard.

Again, not a fan.

Dude, it's all top notch gear. If you're feeling different each day, the guitar plays different each day.

It may just be a musician thing...of course I'm a weirdo with acute hearing.

For the record, I wasn't dissing you for taking this approach, I just don't like it. I have many producer friends that will do the same thing and take a D.I. with every mic'd bass track and I've told them to nut up, make a decision and roll with it. Some have followed my advice and some have respectfully declined.

:D

But if you have a bass tone, it shouldn't be difficult to capture with one microphone. If you don't know what you're going for or the producer is unsure, that's a whole 'nother can of worms.

Maybe a small tube amp, or a plug-in like AmpFarm would work.

A Line 6 pod woukd probably be the cheapest route, but...they only sound like 90% of the way there.

Orange makes an awesome little amp called the Tiny Terror, i think it has like a 5/15w switch. Flip it to 5, stick it in the closet with a mic, put on your headphones and wail away! (<my choice)

Like I said, literally just doing to appease everyone else; when it comes time to mix, I'm using my mic'ed cabs. Maybe in stereo, maybe just the one. But it sounds great, the dailys with the mic'ed bas sounds great, so...I've already made up my mind.

I've been looking at one but I just bought a bass and 15W bass amp, plus some recording equipment so I'm kinda tapped for that sort of thing right now.

I've been playing around with some VST simulators from LePou plugins and they're actually kind of cool...

Well, we'll have to agree to disagree. I think it has more to do with someone's head than the actual gear itself.

And I've got just a wee bit experience in this arena myself.

Do you like straight-up rock with weird shit (White Album) or experimental power-pop perfection (Rubber Soul)??

I can tell.

Check out Guitar Rig 5. It has a ton of emulators, cabinets and mics to choose from. It should be more than adequate.

LMAO
I just caught that...and probably so.

I've looked at it. Unfortunately, I could buy a Micro Terror for that kind of coin.

I've got to go a cheaper route right now but thanks for the suggestion all the same.

http://www.native-instruments.com/#/...-rig-5-player/

Free player

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/PodHD/

I'd go for a POD HD. You can record both guitar and bass plus it comes with a USB editor, which is amazingly helpful.

No offense to DW but I think the Orange Tiny Terror is garbage. I'd purchase a high quality active direct box, like a Radial JV48, record all your guitars and basses directly into your Daw, then insert the POD Pro on the group busses in your DAW.

That way, you can edit the guitar and bass tones during mixing, instead of being locked into something that doesn't work. Good luck!

Yes

That's certainly fair enough. If you have the intimate details I don't really want to know them anyway, the specifics aren't important. It's too bad though. Seems to happen way too much.

I'll have to check that out. Thanks!

no offense taken; I know jackshit about little amps.

This is the first time I've had any lengthy experience with any, and we've been using like 5-watt Matchless, Badkat, Egnator, and Fuchs heads that they have at the studio. The Egnator or whatever sounds like poo to me...

Edit : I like the sound of big Oranges though, and he wanted 'small quiet and cheap so that was my suggestion, based on his criteria, not any experience I've ever had with a TT.

Double Edit : with the budget it sounds like you're working with, I'll second the POD suggestion. Plethora of workable tones in all kinds of configurations you can set yourself at a decent price.

Metallica
Tool
Stabbing Westward
Def Leppard
Motley Crue

These are in no particular order.

Then you can't go wrong.

:thumb:

Thank you.

Bob Seger & The Silver Bullet Band
Flogging Molly
Jesus & Mary Chain
Offspring
Dandy Warhols

Small 5 watt and 15 watt amps that are "designed" to sound like 100 watt amps suck ass.

First off the designs don't allow for a large output transformer or large tubes. Outside of an AC30 (Matchless, Bruno - all AC30 clones), EL84 based amps sound like shit. It's just impossible to make a 5 watt transformer sound like a 100 watt transformer.

Personally, I think they're a waste of money. There are far more elegant solutions to miking up a cab, including sound proofing and treating a closet, isolation cabinets like those offered by James Demeter, Randall, Silent Sister, etc., THD hotplate or just running a 100 watt head straight to a cabinet for a load with the master volume set to zero, then sending the effects loop signal directly to a DAW for use with cabinet sims in Guitar Rig, ReCabinet, Red Wirez.

They're a marketing gimmick.

Creed
Nickelback

/thread!

But honestly:

1st and foremost: Tool
Mudvayne
Shinedown
Metallica
Rage Against the Machine

Rock is hard to generalize because of the massive amounts of sub genres. I'd throw Trivium around, along with Red Hot Chili Peppers, and even though I would've put Dream Theater in there for every amazingly epic song they have they make a terrible slow song. Panic Attack is one of the best songs ever made though.

I've played some of the Orange lunchbox amps at the shop and while they may not be ideal, they sure as hell sound better than my Crate on 3 volume. My problem is that I've got a 110-pound monster that I originally got 20 years ago for gigging. It's worthless for recording.

I'm only going to list the ones I've seen live because there are a lot of folks that make great music in the studio, but can't perform on stage. In no particular order:
The Who
The Rolling Stones
The Doobie Brothers
Bob Seger and the Silver Bullet Band
Bruce Springsteen and the E Street band
Alternate: Fleetwood Mac

As a side note, I did see the Beatles (who knows, couldn't hear a thing over the screams), The Doors (Morrison was so stoned you couldn't understand him), and a host of others that were really solo acts (Joplin, Hendrix).

1. Journey

I love all those bands. I would agree those are THE top five. Technically a different question than "YOUR" top five. All those bands are in my Top Ten, but just outside my Top Five, which are:

1) Styx
2) ELO
3) Jethro Tull
4) Iron Maiden
5) Kiss

The stench of buttrocker in this thread is overpowering.

STYX IS TEH WORST BAND EVAR!!!! YOUR AND IDIOT FOR LIKING THEM, GO CHANGE YOU'RE TAMPON!!!! /Driving Wheel

Hmm no Thin Lizzy love?

Top 5 rock bands, not top 5 Irish rock bands with black singers. :Poke:

Sublime and beastie boys best rock bands ever.

Irish or not, still beats the snot out of many modern bands.

I always thought the singer in Thin Lizzy was Kermit the Frog?

I'm just giving you a hard time. Phil Lynott was the first guy I thought of when someone mentioned black rock and roll bands earlier in the thread, even before I thought of Jimi Hendrix. Thin Lizzy was a very good band.