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-   -   Chiefs How would YOU try to improve the defense? (https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=317479)

htismaqe 09-16-2018 06:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 13738271)
I think Reid defers a lot of defense to the DC, and Sutton can't adjust to the way the game is going. It's not like this is the first time Reid has had a struggling DC. I like what Sutton has done for us in the past, but he looks just plain lost. And blaming talent can only take you so far.
How far? All the way to a new DC and a defense that doesn't improve or even gets worse?

They scapegoated Greg Robinson after the 2003 season and the garbage players on that defense were even worse under Gunther. That stupid experiment ended in Vermeil retiring and the Chiefs going back to freaking Martyball only worse.

No thanks. If we're all in with Mahomes, it's time to go all in. Stop screwing with stuff that doesn't matter and get some people that can actually play football.

RealSNR 09-16-2018 06:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 13738178)
How many sacks do we have over the past 18 games? Our players suck, our blitzes don't work. They get picked up and they give up big plays.

How many times did we do 3 man rushes? Half the time? How many times did we rush more than 4, ie how many times was an ACTUAL honest to goodness blitz called?

We avoid the blitz for no apparent reason. Houston, Ford, and Jones are all okay or pretty good rushers. I don’t know why we get scared when teams spread us out.

htismaqe 09-16-2018 06:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Meck (Post 13738289)
Yes and no. I just think a big part of the problem is not putting guys in a position to be successful.

It's true that there are problems with tackling and the secondary is suspect. I don't know why we are relying on them then to cover for 8 seconds at a time.

It's cool, we just disagree.
Several times guys were in a position to be successful today and they just flat out missed. Like I said, I hope they fire Sutton.

But then you guys are going to have to find a new scapegoat because nothing's going to change until they fix their personnel problems.

NJChiefsFan 09-16-2018 06:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RealSNR (Post 13738296)
How many times did we do 3 man rushes? Half the time? How many times did we rush more than 4, ie how many times was an ACTUAL honest to goodness blitz called?

We avoid the blitz for no apparent reason. Houston, Ford, and Jones are all okay or pretty good rushers. I don’t know why we get scared when teams spread us out.
That's my point. People are referencing specific blitzes and that's well and good but it doesn't change to overall theme today which was sit back and yet again it led to tons of points.

Chris Meck 09-16-2018 06:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CupidStunt (Post 13738227)
To add, obviously a 4-3 makes more sense with a new DC. We don't have any ****ing personnel for a 3-4. Every project DL guy we take isn't suited for either 34 DE or OLB. Tear it down, build around Jones as a DT and Hitchens as our MLB. 34 has basically never worked for us, ever. We've always been terrible against the run and similar vs the pass outside of Houston's monster season.
Well, we (and most of the NFL really) aren't really in a base defense of any sort all that often. Most teams run a ton of 3 or more wide that puts you in the nickel or dime right out of the gate. I don't think 3-4 vs. 4-3 will make any real difference. Now, one gap or two gap, that's relevant. zone blitz concepts certainly. Rushing 3 or sometimes 2 is my real frustration.

ChiefEd 09-16-2018 06:12 PM
Trade draft picks (plural) to pick up a secondary player or two. Even if we don’t get the best value. We can win it all this year with just a little more talent in the defensive backfield...

chiefzilla1501 09-16-2018 06:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 13738294)
How far? All the way to a new DC and a defense that doesn't improve or even gets worse?

They scapegoated Greg Robinson after the 2003 season and the garbage players on that defense were even worse under Gunther. That stupid experiment ended in Vermeil retiring and the Chiefs going back to freaking Martyball only worse.

No thanks. If we're all in with Mahomes, it's time to go all in. Stop screwing with stuff that doesn't matter and get some people that can actually play football.
Because Vermeil replaced trash with trash. Gunther Cunningham was given an insane amount of money to spend on player after player. Gunther failed because he was a failure, not because of personnel.

There are a ton of DCs out there that are running similar zone concepts with an aggressive blitzing concept. Meanwhile your soft zone guys like Sutton and McDermott are struggling mightily. It just can't work in today's game where DBs get flagged for everything. Sutton's creative from a zone perspective, but his blitz packages completely lack imagination and his defenses aren't going to hit you in the mouth. We don't have the talent to be great at defense, but I think we could be much better.

But if I'm being fair... so far we've been really really bad on defense when protecting a lead. We haven't been terrible otherwise. So there's still some chance that Sutton's D isn't as bad as it seems.

-King- 09-16-2018 06:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 13738232)
It's really hard to say. The problem is veach went grocery shopping for probably the wrong cook. If Reid and veach wanted to get bigger, then go out and get a DC who will get your team to play bigger. Instead we're forcing big guys into nickel dime all the time and these guys are shitting the bed with tackling which reflects on coaching. Either veach is right and he has the wrong DC, or Sutton is right and veach should have loaded him with DBs.

Unfortunately I think we all know ths best solution is to can Sutton and bring in players to suit that new defense. I just hope we didn't pigeonhole ourselves into a scheme because we started rebuilding this year. I just don't understand the thought behind keeping a 70 year old DC who struggled last year when it was a perfect perfect opportunity to bring in a fresh face.
There's no scenario in which Veach was right unless he has a time machine.

How can you have the a great offense and not expect to be facing a ton of passing as teams try to keep up?
Posted via Mobile Device

OKchiefs 09-16-2018 06:14 PM
I'm not really sure how you fix it. When you are getting almost no production out of Berry and Houston, how do you overcome that? We're severely lacking talent in the secondary, and we haven't drafted anyone worth a damn other than Peters who isn't even here anymore. The only real difference maker on the DL is Jones, but his motor runs hot and cold. Our linebackers are alright against the run but our pass rush is horrible and the ILB get picked apart against the pass. We drafted all defense, but I don't see a single difference maker in the draft. Our 2018 draft might end up with a backup or two, but overall it was one of the worst drafts we've had. I'm not able to answer how we fix this, because we've invested a lot of resources in a defense that will likely finish bottom 5 in the NFL.

RealSNR 09-16-2018 06:15 PM
I hope Charvarious Ward is more than a Kenneth Acker douche we acquire all the time. Would be cool to see either him or Tremon Smith take over as soon as some time this season

htismaqe 09-16-2018 06:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Meck (Post 13738312)
Well, we (and most of the NFL really) aren't really in a base defense of any sort all that often. Most teams run a ton of 3 or more wide that puts you in the nickel or dime right out of the gate. I don't think 3-4 vs. 4-3 will make any real difference. Now, one gap or two gap, that's relevant. zone blitz concepts certainly. Rushing 3 or sometimes 2 is my real frustration.
This.

Chris Meck 09-16-2018 06:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 13738336)
Because Vermeil replaced trash with trash. Gunther Cunningham was given an insane amount of money to spend on player after player. Gunther failed because he was a failure, not because of personnel.

There are a ton of DCs out there that are running similar zone concepts with an aggressive blitzing concept. Meanwhile your soft zone guys like Sutton and McDermott are struggling mightily. It just can't work in today's game where DBs get flagged for everything. Sutton's creative from a zone perspective, but his blitz packages completely lack imagination and his defenses aren't going to hit you in the mouth. We don't have the talent to be great at defense, but I think we could be much better.

But if I'm being fair... so far we've been really really bad on defense when protecting a lead. We haven't been terrible otherwise. So there's still some chance that Sutton's D isn't as bad as it seems.
You've said it better than I have.

jimidollar 09-16-2018 06:16 PM
A time machine.

lawrenceRaider 09-16-2018 06:16 PM
Based on early returns, Chiefs are a competent DC from the Superbowl.

htismaqe 09-16-2018 06:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 13738336)
Because Vermeil replaced trash with trash. Gunther Cunningham was given an insane amount of money to spend on player after player. Gunther failed because he was a failure, not because of personnel.

There are a ton of DCs out there that are running similar zone concepts with an aggressive blitzing concept. Meanwhile your soft zone guys like Sutton and McDermott are struggling mightily. It just can't work in today's game where DBs get flagged for everything. Sutton's creative from a zone perspective, but his blitz packages completely lack imagination and his defenses aren't going to hit you in the mouth. We don't have the talent to be great at defense, but I think we could be much better.

But if I'm being fair... so far we've been really really bad on defense when protecting a lead. We haven't been terrible otherwise. So there's still some chance that Sutton's D isn't as bad as it seems.
Name an aggressive D coordinator out there that is being successful with literally zero pass rushers on the outside.


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